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[EVDL] EV Business?

1623 Views 29 Replies 1 Participant Last post by  EVDL List
I've been contemplating another self-startup in the EV business.
What type of businesses have been successful?
Where will growth and demand be in the future?

It seems many have tried a business converting cars to electric,
doesn't seem to have worked with a few exceptions.

Selling parts to DIY conversions?
Certainly some have been successful.

Design and manufacturing components?
Seems a tough road, chinese competition.

Design and sell Kit Car or plans??
Seems a high-risk, low-reward limited market?

Plug-in conversions for Prius?
Now have "big boys" in this business with A123.
I'm thinking this is the best opportunity right now,
with the Prius coming off warranty and the old batteries wearing out, it there will be good demand for plug-in conversion?

What does EVLD say?

Jack Murray
Nimble Motorsports


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21 - 30 of 30 Posts

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Joined
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72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #21 ·
> I am planning to buy a 3 to 5 year old compact, convert to full
electric and sell for $23,500 and that will also be elegible for the $7,500
Federal credit so it is a lot like $16,000 retail and I include a healthy
profit and overhead in my calculations. (Part of my "Trick" is using the
students to do the labor)and while teaching them how, why, and business
skills to!

Dennis,

Are you sure a Conversion qualifies for that $7500 credit? I am pretty sure
that a conversion only is eligible for a 10% credit and up to $4000......


Sincerely;

Douglas A. Stansfield
President
www.TransAtlanticElectricConversions.com
973-875-6276 (office)
973-670-9208 (cell)
973-440-1619 (fax)

ELECTRIC CAR PRODUCERS





-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Dennis Miles
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 3:23 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Business?

WOW, this topic has a lot of interest!
G-mail formats them all out to about a dozen pages.

Many of you know I am ready to open a Technical Institute for EV
Technicians. I had had a lot of interested inquiries from possible students
from all over the USA and many other countries. I am seeking a partner with
$30k or several small investors with $10K each, a large return may the
result, perhaps as much as 10 times the investment in three years,if you
have any interest in that please contact me by phone or e-mail off the list.
"Lets talk!"

To the many who speak of buying a $15,000 vehice and adding a $4,000
extrnded range battery pack, then compare it to a Leaf at $21,000 after
rebates, I must ask, WHERE IS THE PROFIT? (excuse the shouting.) Are you
just building one for yourself? because a business suggests a desired profit
after overhead so typical markup from actual cost is 2 or 3 times the cost,
can you sell it for $58,000 or even $38,000 if not you are contemplating a
"Not-for-profit" hobby, that is not a business.

I am planning to buy a 3 to 5 year old compact, convert to full
electric and sell for $23,500 and that will also be elegible for the $7,500
Federal credit so it is a lot like $16,000 retail and I include a healthy
profit and overhead in my calculations. (Part of my "Trick" is using the
students to do the labor)and while teaching them how, why, and business
skills to!
Regards,
*Dennis Lee Miles* (Director) *E.V.T.I. inc*.
*www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM <http://www.e-v-t-i-inc.com/> *(Adviser)*
EVTI-EVAEducation Chapter
*
Phone (863) 944 - 9913
Initial demand (computed by extrapolating the reservations for GM Volt and
Nissan Leaf,) shall exceed 200,000 vehicles in 2010 and 2011. However only
50,000 vehicles will be marketed, so a LARGE demand for Nice Newer
Conversions is predicted!
=================================================================
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Jack Murray
<[email protected]>wrote:

>
> I've been contemplating another self-startup in the EV business.
> What type of businesses have been successful?
> Where will growth and demand be in the future?
>
> It seems many have tried a business converting cars to electric,
> doesn't seem to have worked with a few exceptions.
>
> Selling parts to DIY conversions?
> Certainly some have been successful.
>
> Design and manufacturing components?
> Seems a tough road, chinese competition.
>
> Design and sell Kit Car or plans??
> Seems a high-risk, low-reward limited market?
>
> Plug-in conversions for Prius?
> Now have "big boys" in this business with A123.
> I'm thinking this is the best opportunity right now,
> with the Prius coming off warranty and the old batteries wearing out, it
> there will be good demand for plug-in conversion?
>
> What does EVLD say?
>
> Jack Murray
> Nimble Motorsports
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



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Joined
·
72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Childress, Matthew wrote:

> Volt is 4-passenger, Prius seats the standard 5.

True enough, however, the 4 people seated in the Volt are seated more comfortably than 4 seated in the Prius. It seats 4 because the battery tunnel goes through the center of the rear seat, not because it is small.

> Further, the compact label comes not from me, but from
> http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2010-10/never-mind-naysayer
> s-chevy-volt-excellent:
>
> "By now, the car has become a political football, a
> proxy for anger over the
> bailout of GM and Chrysler and a symbol of the future
> of the American auto
> industry. That's a lot of baggage for a compact car to carry"
>
> "The Prius is roomier than the Volt"

I've driven the Volt and ridden in the back seat, and I certainly didn't find it noticably less roomy than the Prius. If anything it struck me as roomier; certainly more comfortable.

Either way, the Prius and the Volt are very similar size vehicles; to label one full-size and the other compact is ludicrous. I think both labels are wrong and both vehicles are mid-size if they are anything ;^>

> > The Prius is simply not a comparable vehicle, range extended or not.
>
> As I outlined, the vehicles are comparable based on the
> real-world NEEDS I spec'd: both meet the daily use needs of
> 50% of drivers in the US, and in that sense a *plug-in* Prius
> is not only comparable but economically favorable to the
> Volt.

An entry-level Civic and top-of-the-line BMW may also satisfy a similar set of needs, but they also are simply not comparable vehicles. You may choose to ignore the differences, but it is the differences that drive the difference in cost between these vehicles, even though they have similar numbers of tires, doors, and both satisfy our daily use needs.

> Unless you live on the moon, you do not need a "rocket" to
> get around town and back and forth to work, pickup the
> groceries, etc.

Of course not, that's why we all drive Yugos and NEVs while all the Porsches, BMWs, Mustangs, Vettes, etc. rust away on dealer lots. ;^>

The reality is that few cars are bought solely based on needs. Sportier, performance-oriented vehicles tend to command a higher price, and the Volt is a much sportier vehicle than the Prius.

> Further, with effective opportunity charging you do not need
> a greater all electric range: again, 50% drive 25 miles or
> less, which means for many it could easily be sub-35mph trips
> and a 15 mile all electric range and a "a standard work day"
> charge time (6-8 hours) on 120V/20A.

It is about options and convenience. The vehicle offering higher-speed and longer range EV capability allows the user the choice of commuting electrically even if they can't plug in at their destination, and even if their commute requires high-speed travel.

Clearly the Volts and Leafs of the world offer features and capabilities that you don't happen to be interested in, however, there may well be enough of a market for them to be successful.

Cheers,

Roger.


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Joined
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72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Douglas A. Stansfield wrote:
> I am planning to buy a 3 to 5 year old compact, convert to full
> electric and sell for $23,500 and that will also be elegible for the
> $7,500 Federal credit so it is a lot like $16,000 retail and I
> include a healthy profit and overhead in my calculations.

> Are you sure a Conversion qualifies for that $7500 credit? I am
> pretty sure that a conversion only is eligible for a 10% credit and
> up to $4000.

It would pay to read the rules *very* carefully. Maybe even have a
professional read them and give you an opinion that might stand up to
IRS scrutiny.

It might be possible to re-title your conversion as a new car in some
states. I've done this in Michigan, for example.

--
Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen

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Joined
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72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Well, Gracious Me I only know what I read in the Funny papers! Someone else
said conversions using new parts were qualified. But that credit expires
Dec.31, 2010 anyway so it is not a done deal, Compare my $23,500 to the
leaf at $31,000 (Plus $3000 premium at some dealers!) and to the Volt (Now
known as a plug-in hybrid,) at $41,000 Plus whatever premium Chevy dealers
may ask. Or compare it to the ALTe offering of a $25,000 mid size SUV
converted to electric hybrid for $25,000 more or a total of $50,000 and
expecting to sell all they can produce. and It looks like I may be fair
priced. What do you think Douglas?
Regards,
Dennis Miles
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 6:06 PM, Douglas A. Stansfield <
[email protected]> wrote:

> > I am planning to buy a 3 to 5 year old compact, convert to full
> electric and sell for $23,500 and that will also be elegible for the $7,500
> Federal credit so it is a lot like $16,000 retail and I include a healthy
> profit and overhead in my calculations. (Part of my "Trick" is using the
> students to do the labor)and while teaching them how, why, and business
> skills to!
>
> Dennis,
>
> Are you sure a Conversion qualifies for that $7500 credit? I am pretty
> sure
> that a conversion only is eligible for a 10% credit and up to $4000......
>
>
> Sincerely;
>
> Douglas A. Stansfield
> President
> www.TransAtlanticElectricConversions.com
> 973-875-6276 (office)
> 973-670-9208 (cell)
> 973-440-1619 (fax)
>
> ELECTRIC CAR PRODUCERS
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf
> Of Dennis Miles
> Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 3:23 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Business?
>
> WOW, this topic has a lot of interest!
> G-mail formats them all out to about a dozen pages.
>
> Many of you know I am ready to open a Technical Institute for EV
> Technicians. I had had a lot of interested inquiries from possible students
> from all over the USA and many other countries. I am seeking a partner with
> $30k or several small investors with $10K each, a large return may the
> result, perhaps as much as 10 times the investment in three years,if you
> have any interest in that please contact me by phone or e-mail off the
> list.
> "Lets talk!"
>
> To the many who speak of buying a $15,000 vehice and adding a $4,000
> extrnded range battery pack, then compare it to a Leaf at $21,000 after
> rebates, I must ask, WHERE IS THE PROFIT? (excuse the shouting.) Are you
> just building one for yourself? because a business suggests a desired
> profit
> after overhead so typical markup from actual cost is 2 or 3 times the
> cost,
> can you sell it for $58,000 or even $38,000 if not you are contemplating a
> "Not-for-profit" hobby, that is not a business.
>
> I am planning to buy a 3 to 5 year old compact, convert to full
> electric and sell for $23,500 and that will also be elegible for the $7,500
> Federal credit so it is a lot like $16,000 retail and I include a healthy
> profit and overhead in my calculations. (Part of my "Trick" is using the
> students to do the labor)and while teaching them how, why, and business
> skills to!
> Regards,
> *Dennis Lee Miles* (Director) *E.V.T.I. inc*.
> *www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM <http://www.e-v-t-i-inc.com/> *(Adviser)*
> EVTI-EVAEducation Chapter
> *
> Phone (863) 944 - 9913
> Initial demand (computed by extrapolating the reservations for GM Volt and
> Nissan Leaf,) shall exceed 200,000 vehicles in 2010 and 2011. However only
> 50,000 vehicles will be marketed, so a LARGE demand for Nice Newer
> Conversions is predicted!
> =================================================================
> On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Jack Murray
> <[email protected]>wrote:
>
> >
> > I've been contemplating another self-startup in the EV business.
> > What type of businesses have been successful?
> > Where will growth and demand be in the future?
> >
> > It seems many have tried a business converting cars to electric,
> > doesn't seem to have worked with a few exceptions.
> >
> > Selling parts to DIY conversions?
> > Certainly some have been successful.
> >
> > Design and manufacturing components?
> > Seems a tough road, chinese competition.
> >
> > Design and sell Kit Car or plans??
> > Seems a high-risk, low-reward limited market?
> >
> > Plug-in conversions for Prius?
> > Now have "big boys" in this business with A123.
> > I'm thinking this is the best opportunity right now,
> > with the Prius coming off warranty and the old batteries wearing out, it
> > there will be good demand for plug-in conversion?
> >
> > What does EVLD say?
> >
> > Jack Murray
> > Nimble Motorsports
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> > | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> > | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> > | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
>
>
> --
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> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



--
Regards,
*Dennis Lee Miles* (Director) *E.V.T.I. inc*.
*www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM <http://www.e-v-t-i-inc.com/> *(Adviser)*
EVTI-EVAEducation Chapter
*
Phone (863) 944 - 9913
Initial demand (computed by extrapolating the reservations for GM Volt and
Nissan Leaf,) shall exceed 200,000 vehicles in 2010 and 2011. However only
50,000 vehicles will be marketed, so a LARGE demand for Nice Newer
Conversions is predicted!
-------------- next part --------------
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_______________________________________________
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| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 

· Registered
Joined
·
72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Your pricing seems about right to me. I just didn't think a used car that
has been converted qualifies as new since there is a section of the code
that is for conversions. I'm not a Tax Accountant so I leave that up to the
buyer. Since these are credits I think you need to have that much Income
Tax Liability already to make this tax credit "real". If you don't owe any
tax I don't think this is something that the government is going to just
give you a (rebate) money for. Again, I am not a tax accountant so this is
my best guess here. Any Tax Accountants on this list?


Sincerely;

Douglas A. Stansfield
President
www.TransAtlanticElectricConversions.com
973-875-6276 (office)
973-670-9208 (cell)
973-440-1619 (fax)

ELECTRIC CAR PRODUCERS







-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Dennis Miles
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 7:22 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Business?

Well, Gracious Me I only know what I read in the Funny papers! Someone else
said conversions using new parts were qualified. But that credit expires
Dec.31, 2010 anyway so it is not a done deal, Compare my $23,500 to the
leaf at $31,000 (Plus $3000 premium at some dealers!) and to the Volt (Now
known as a plug-in hybrid,) at $41,000 Plus whatever premium Chevy dealers
may ask. Or compare it to the ALTe offering of a $25,000 mid size SUV
converted to electric hybrid for $25,000 more or a total of $50,000 and
expecting to sell all they can produce. and It looks like I may be fair
priced. What do you think Douglas?
Regards,
Dennis Miles
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 6:06 PM, Douglas A. Stansfield <
[email protected]> wrote:

> > I am planning to buy a 3 to 5 year old compact, convert to full
> electric and sell for $23,500 and that will also be elegible for the
$7,500
> Federal credit so it is a lot like $16,000 retail and I include a healthy
> profit and overhead in my calculations. (Part of my "Trick" is using the
> students to do the labor)and while teaching them how, why, and business
> skills to!
>
> Dennis,
>
> Are you sure a Conversion qualifies for that $7500 credit? I am pretty
> sure
> that a conversion only is eligible for a 10% credit and up to $4000......
>
>
> Sincerely;
>
> Douglas A. Stansfield
> President
> www.TransAtlanticElectricConversions.com
> 973-875-6276 (office)
> 973-670-9208 (cell)
> 973-440-1619 (fax)
>
> ELECTRIC CAR PRODUCERS
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf
> Of Dennis Miles
> Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 3:23 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Business?
>
> WOW, this topic has a lot of interest!
> G-mail formats them all out to about a dozen pages.
>
> Many of you know I am ready to open a Technical Institute for EV
> Technicians. I had had a lot of interested inquiries from possible
students
> from all over the USA and many other countries. I am seeking a partner
with
> $30k or several small investors with $10K each, a large return may the
> result, perhaps as much as 10 times the investment in three years,if you
> have any interest in that please contact me by phone or e-mail off the
> list.
> "Lets talk!"
>
> To the many who speak of buying a $15,000 vehice and adding a $4,000
> extrnded range battery pack, then compare it to a Leaf at $21,000 after
> rebates, I must ask, WHERE IS THE PROFIT? (excuse the shouting.) Are you
> just building one for yourself? because a business suggests a desired
> profit
> after overhead so typical markup from actual cost is 2 or 3 times the
> cost,
> can you sell it for $58,000 or even $38,000 if not you are contemplating a
> "Not-for-profit" hobby, that is not a business.
>
> I am planning to buy a 3 to 5 year old compact, convert to full
> electric and sell for $23,500 and that will also be elegible for the
$7,500
> Federal credit so it is a lot like $16,000 retail and I include a healthy
> profit and overhead in my calculations. (Part of my "Trick" is using the
> students to do the labor)and while teaching them how, why, and business
> skills to!
> Regards,
> *Dennis Lee Miles* (Director) *E.V.T.I. inc*.
> *www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM <http://www.e-v-t-i-inc.com/> *(Adviser)*
> EVTI-EVAEducation Chapter
> *
> Phone (863) 944 - 9913
> Initial demand (computed by extrapolating the reservations for GM Volt
and
> Nissan Leaf,) shall exceed 200,000 vehicles in 2010 and 2011. However only
> 50,000 vehicles will be marketed, so a LARGE demand for Nice Newer
> Conversions is predicted!
> =================================================================
> On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Jack Murray
> <[email protected]>wrote:
>
> >
> > I've been contemplating another self-startup in the EV business.
> > What type of businesses have been successful?
> > Where will growth and demand be in the future?
> >
> > It seems many have tried a business converting cars to electric,
> > doesn't seem to have worked with a few exceptions.
> >
> > Selling parts to DIY conversions?
> > Certainly some have been successful.
> >
> > Design and manufacturing components?
> > Seems a tough road, chinese competition.
> >
> > Design and sell Kit Car or plans??
> > Seems a high-risk, low-reward limited market?
> >
> > Plug-in conversions for Prius?
> > Now have "big boys" in this business with A123.
> > I'm thinking this is the best opportunity right now,
> > with the Prius coming off warranty and the old batteries wearing out, it
> > there will be good demand for plug-in conversion?
> >
> > What does EVLD say?
> >
> > Jack Murray
> > Nimble Motorsports
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> > | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> > | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> > | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
>
>
> --
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
>
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>
hment.html<http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20101015/aa8
3312e/attac%0Ahment.html>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



--
Regards,
*Dennis Lee Miles* (Director) *E.V.T.I. inc*.
*www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM <http://www.e-v-t-i-inc.com/> *(Adviser)*
EVTI-EVAEducation Chapter
*
Phone (863) 944 - 9913
Initial demand (computed by extrapolating the reservations for GM Volt and
Nissan Leaf,) shall exceed 200,000 vehicles in 2010 and 2011. However only
50,000 vehicles will be marketed, so a LARGE demand for Nice Newer
Conversions is predicted!
-------------- next part --------------
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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
>OK; what should I charge for this service? Minimum wage? I'd go broke! I
>have other work that pays many times more per hour. Or should I charge
>my regular employment rate? If I did, the cost of my labor would be more
>than what he saved by buying the cheap supply, which means I wouldn't
>get the "job".


As usual, Lee saved lots of dollars for EV converters doing things 'on
a hobbyist budget'.

http://www.evdl.org/pages/iotamods.html

If I won the lottery, I would give Lee a nice big paycheck for his efforts on
this list!
There are few like him, and I always appreciate his advice and comments on this
list.
Thanks again Lee for your expert advice and all you do for the EV community!
I can only offer praise for your efforts (kids in college, etc. etc.), and I
don't play the lottery more than twice a year, but I would give you a big
paycheck if I won :)

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Bill,

I have heard exactly this same argument in a totally different realm. I
think it will help illustrate your point.

There are lots of people who think it would make a really great business to
become a masseuse. They only need a fairly cheap table and some training.
Total investment, maybe $500 or 600 and they can go into business. They
aren't the people making money in the massage business.

It's the guy who sells the tables.

Lots of people buy a table thinking they will get rich. When they decide it
isn't for them, they can't do much else with the table, but the table guy
already has his money. The amount is low enough that he gets paid in cash.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Bill Dube
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 1:55 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Business?


>
>OK, Bill, what do you think is a good approach?
>I asked originally, what part of the business has been successful?
>It can't be NOTHING. Getting government grants and raising investor
>capital is the most profitable EV business ?? :)

You have to think like the used tow truck dealer. The most obvious
business path is not where the money is. The key is to find an aspect of the
EV realm that can make money that is off-center from what everyone else is
trying to do.

I would not suggest this particular business, because there is
enough competition right now to make it difficult to enter at this time, but
the smart move many years ago was the EV parts supply business. Like the
used tow truck dealer, you can make money by selling something to businesses
that typically don't themselves make money.


>Frankly, just opening up a car repair shop that specializes in
>Prius/EV/Hybrids might be a reasonable approach.
>Can't outsource that to China.
>But its a low-risk, low-reward proposition.

The shop itself might not be the right business, but selling
training (or training supplies) for such a business or profession is likely
to be very profitable. Selling specialty tools for such shops could be
profitable.

Don't go for the obvious EV business, but keep it in mind as a
market _for_ a business. Don't sell cars. Sell things to people that sell
cars, or to the people that bought cars, or to people that want to sell
cars, or to people that want to buy cars, or to people that fix cars.
Perhaps go a step deeper in the food chain and sell things to people that
sell things to people that sell cars.

I am not a businessman by any stretch of the imagination. I have
little or no interest in running a business because I find dealing with the
important details tedious and boring. However, I have seen which businesses
work, and which ones fail.

Jeppesen did not make his fortune working as a pilot. He made his
fortune selling his navigational charts to other pilots. He made his fortune
selling what he _knew_ rather than what he _did._

Bill D.

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Sounds like the old joke about making a small fortune farming . . .

You just have to start with a large fortune.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Bill Dube
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 11:07 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Business?

The reason that EV conversion businesses rarely make money is exactly the
reason so many folks want to try to do it.

There are simply too many other folks that passionately want to do it, and
can afford _not_ to make money doing it. A _real_ business doesn't stand a
chance of succeeding when there are countless competitors that are happy to
never make a profit, or to operate at a perpetual loss.

I have long ago lost count of the people that have seriously asked my advice
about starting a conversion business. (Likely ~20 per year, every year.) I
tell them this, very classic, joke:

A fellow in the EV conversion business won the state lottery. A reporter
asked him, "What are you going to do with the million dollars you just won?"
The fellow answered, "I'm going to stay in the EV conversion business until
it is all gone."

There are plenty of potential EV business opportunities, but the conversion
business it the most difficult EV business to make a profit. Pick some other
aspect of the EV realm and you will have a MUCH better chance of making some
money at it.

If you want to _guarantee_ operating at a huge perpetual loss, without even
a glimmer of hope of ever making a profit, become an EV racing competitor.
;-)

Bill Dube'




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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Matthew wrote:
> While you and I (and most on this list) are willing to put up with some
> inconvenience until a better/cheaper option is available, I wonder what
> Jill will do? I wonder what using a non-Nissan charger will do to your
> warranty. Hmm...

We're not talking about chargers or using a non-Nissan charger. We're
talking about the CORD that connects the charger to the ac power.

--
Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 34 days 2 hours 30 minutes

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Lee Hart wrote:
>> what should I charge? Minimum wage? I'd go broke! Or my regular
>> rate? Then it costs more than he saved on the cheap supply and I
>> don't get the "job".

Rod Hower wrote:
> As usual, Lee saved lots of dollars for EV converters doing things
> 'on a hobbyist budget'. http://www.evdl.org/pages/iotamods.html
>
> If I won the lottery, I would give Lee a nice big paycheck for his
> efforts on this list! There are few like him, and I always
> appreciate his advice and comments on this list. Thanks again Lee for
> your expert advice and all you do for the EV community! I can only
> offer praise for your efforts (kids in college, etc. etc.), and I
> don't play the lottery more than twice a year, but I would give you a
> big paycheck if I won :)

Thanks, Rod. That's is why I *do* jobs like this. He didn't pay me
anything for it -- instead, he helped me with other things. My payment
isn't in dollars. It's in good will, promoting the cause, and in barter
(I'll help you if you'll help me).

The problem is, it indirectly encourages people to buy cheap junk from
careless suppliers, rather than the more expensive good stuff from
suppliers who put a lot of effort into designing it to work right. The
bad drives out the good.

--
Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen

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