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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

I just made a dc motor turn under control of the Curtis controller
and my mockup-electrical system (an on off switch, a 5k pot and a contactor).

Biiiiiiiiiiiiiig ev grin. I now have all the pieces, except for
the adaptor coupler and plate I intend to improvise on the spot, to
assemble an electric Citroen GS.

Many thanks to Darin and Mike for the help making the 1204-410
to work with its strange pot input.

I'll try to upload a video later this week.


--
Eduardo K. | Some say it's forgive and forget.
http://www.carfun.cl | I say forget about forgiving just accept.
http://ev.nn.cl | And get the hell out of town.
| Minnie Driver, Grosse Point Blank

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Discussion Starter #2
Hey Eduardo

Keep those RPM's in check or you'll go from smiling to
frowning real fast.

Congrats on the test but lets keep that motor under
load, just takes one "ooops" to blow your whole day.

Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric

--- Eduardo Kaftanski <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> I just made a dc motor turn under control of
> the Curtis controller
> and my mockup-electrical system (an on off switch, a
> 5k pot and a contactor).
> Biiiiiiiiiiiiiig ev grin. I now have all the
> pieces,



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Discussion Starter #3
Jim Husted wrote:
> Hey Eduardo
>
> Keep those RPM's in check or you'll go from smiling to
> frowning real fast.
>
> Congrats on the test but lets keep that motor under
> load, just takes one "ooops" to blow your whole day.

dont worry. I am testing with a US$20 treadmill motor, just
in case I oops-up :)


>
> Cya
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
> --- Eduardo Kaftanski <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I just made a dc motor turn under control of
> > the Curtis controller
> > and my mockup-electrical system (an on off switch, a
> > 5k pot and a contactor).
> > Biiiiiiiiiiiiiig ev grin. I now have all the
> > pieces,
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's
> Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.
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--
Eduardo K. | Some say it's forgive and forget.
http://www.carfun.cl | I say forget about forgiving just accept.
http://ev.nn.cl | And get the hell out of town.
| Minnie Driver, Grosse Point Blank

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Discussion Starter #4
--- Eduardo Kaftanski <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 15, 2007 at 06:06:34PM -0700, Jim Husted
> wrote:
> > Hey Eduardo
> >
> > Keep those RPM's in check or you'll go from
> smiling to
> > frowning real fast.
> >
> > Congrats on the test but lets keep that motor
> under
> > load, just takes one "ooops" to blow your whole
> day.
>
> dont worry. I am testing with a US$20 treadmill
> motor, just
> in case I oops-up :)


Hey Ed

Well crank that puppy up and see what she'll do then
8^o LMAO BTW, Smart man! 8^)
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric



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Discussion Starter #5
Hi Eduardo...

> Many thanks to Darin and Mike for the help making the 1204-410
> to work with its strange pot input.

Glad it worked for you!

But let me pass the thanks up the line: Roger Stockton figured out how to
wire the unusual pot connections to make the 1204-410 work in the
ForkenSwift. I was just passing on the instructions he gave me.

FYI, not much new to report from the ForkenSwift. I've been lazy this
summer. Yet I've been finding time to ghost it around the neighbourhood
instead of working on it like I should be. (Someone needs to take away the
keys - it's *much* more fun to drive than to wrench on. Let that be a
warning!)

I'm still poking away at finishing the battery racks (nearly done). Only a
few more tasks before it can be taken in for final inspection and licencing.

Darin
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Ev-grin-tf4276868s25542.html#a12253814
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Discussion Starter #6
[EVDL] EV Grin

I took the family for a first drive this evening in the Ghia. It was
hauled home today by a tow truck from REV Consultants in Ottawa
(~90miles from my home) , where it had sat quietly awaiting parts for
most of the winter.

I had been out last Sunday to Ottawa to look it over and put on the
final touches with Richard. We had it out on the highway at 60mph @
<100A at the batteries on a 144VDC pack sagged into the ~130's in 14F
weather. That's ~217Wh/mile which is fine in my books for cold
weather on flattish tires.

But the real excitement was climbing aboard with my wife and two small
children. With the same question I'm sure many of you have heard: "Is
it on?", and after the explanation to my eldest daughter (3yrs old)
that, no, daddy's blue car would not go vroom-vroom -- we were off for
a quick circuit around the neighborhood.

Thank you all for your contributions, both directly to my project, and
through the discussions I have learned so much from. While I don't
have much to offer in return, you are always welcome to ask any
questions -- or drop by for a charge!

Still grinning,

-Nick Drouin
Montreal, QC
http://electricghia.blogspot.com
www.evalbum.com/1890

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Discussion Starter #7
Re: [EVDL] EV Grin

Congratulations, Nick!

Joseph H. Strubhar

Web: www.gremcoinc.com

E-mail: [email protected]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nicolas Drouin" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 7:57 PM
Subject: [EVDL] EV Grin


>I took the family for a first drive this evening in the Ghia. It was
> hauled home today by a tow truck from REV Consultants in Ottawa
> (~90miles from my home) , where it had sat quietly awaiting parts for
> most of the winter.
>
> I had been out last Sunday to Ottawa to look it over and put on the
> final touches with Richard. We had it out on the highway at 60mph @
> <100A at the batteries on a 144VDC pack sagged into the ~130's in 14F
> weather. That's ~217Wh/mile which is fine in my books for cold
> weather on flattish tires.
>
> But the real excitement was climbing aboard with my wife and two small
> children. With the same question I'm sure many of you have heard: "Is
> it on?", and after the explanation to my eldest daughter (3yrs old)
> that, no, daddy's blue car would not go vroom-vroom -- we were off for
> a quick circuit around the neighborhood.
>
> Thank you all for your contributions, both directly to my project, and
> through the discussions I have learned so much from. While I don't
> have much to offer in return, you are always welcome to ask any
> questions -- or drop by for a charge!
>
> Still grinning,
>
> -Nick Drouin
> Montreal, QC
> http://electricghia.blogspot.com
> www.evalbum.com/1890
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
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> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
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Discussion Starter #8
Re: [EVDL] EV Grin

Nick,

Awesome work and congratulations on a job well done. Good to hear that
the Ghia runs well with 144 volts. So how is that battery monitor
working? What would your Wh per mile be if you calculated with motor
amps instead of battery amps? I have so far gotten 18 miles on 72
volts and no more controller heating. Good to hear that your new ride
can handle the hills in your area. Varoom no more, Mmmmmmmmm all the
way.

Gave me a grin just hearing of your accomplishments.

Pete : )



Nicolas Drouin wrote:

> I took the family for a first drive this evening in the Ghia. It was
> hauled home today by a tow truck from REV Consultants in Ottawa
> (~90miles from my home) , where it had sat quietly awaiting parts for
> most of the winter.
>
> I had been out last Sunday to Ottawa to look it over and put on the
> final touches with Richard. We had it out on the highway at 60mph @
> <100A at the batteries on a 144VDC pack sagged into the ~130's in 14F
> weather. That's ~217Wh/mile which is fine in my books for cold
> weather on flattish tires.
>
> But the real excitement was climbing aboard with my wife and two small
> children. With the same question I'm sure many of you have heard: "Is
> it on?", and after the explanation to my eldest daughter (3yrs old)
> that, no, daddy's blue car would not go vroom-vroom -- we were off for
> a quick circuit around the neighborhood.
>
> Thank you all for your contributions, both directly to my project, and
> through the discussions I have learned so much from. While I don't
> have much to offer in return, you are always welcome to ask any
> questions -- or drop by for a charge!
>
> Still grinning,
>
> -Nick Drouin
> Montreal, QC
> http://electricghia.blogspot.com
> www.evalbum.com/1890
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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Discussion Starter #9
Re: [EVDL] EV Grin

<[email protected]> wrote:
> ... So how is that battery monitor
> working? What would your Wh per mile be if you calculated with motor
> amps instead of battery amps?

Hi Pete,

Thanks, its nice to have it on the road. The battery monitors are
installed but have to be calibrated, I need to get my hands on a
regulated variable power-supply, hopefully something that's been
calibrated recently. It might be worth buying one, say 0-15VDC, 5A,
as it can serve as a charger to balance the pack. (One monitor also
has a bad solder joint, or something, and will need some debugging --
my inexperience with electronics has surfaced already! )

The Whr/mile at the motor should be the same as the batts, less
controller inefficiencies, but it's impossible to measure
(practically), as the voltage will be all over the place. What I'm
keeping an eye on is max sustained amperage at the motor to avoid
overheating. The motor overtemp sensor on the Warp9 also drives one
of the idot lights in the old VDO gauge.

I'm glad to hear your controller overheat problems are settled. I
have a massive aluminum mounting plate on the firewall, so it should
keep the controller cool.

The big question that remains is how it will handle the commute...
but first, winter tires and inspection.

Cheers,

-Nick

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Discussion Starter #10
[EVDL] EV Grin

After thinking about this for almost 10 years,
Buying a 1965 Datsun L320 pickup ~ 4 years ago while laying around with
a broken ankle,
and working on the conversion for almost 2 years. . . . . . .

Last Friday, Watsun rolled out on Highway W and gave me my first EV
grin.
I'm afraid to really put my foot into it yet, but "Holy Cow", this thing
will be fast.
The 1200 Raptor seems to be operating flawlessly.
Going about 35 mph, and just slightly pushing down on the amp pedal,
gives you a real feel for the potential torque and acceleration this
truck will have.

Still have lost to do;
Trouble with my NG5 charger, some rewiring, the tach won't work, clutch
adjustment, yadda, yadda, yadda.


Question to the Group.

The Zivan NG5 charger seemed to be working fine the first few times I
used it.
On Sunday, I started getting an error code, and after some
investigation, I found both my 250VDC 30A fuses were blown.
With the power cord to the charger unplugged, I replaced one of the
fuses, no problem.
When putting the second one in, it blew, and blew the other one also.

Unplugged the charger DC side output cord. Checked the continuity on
both wires. OK
Since I didn't have any more 30 amp fuses, I put some 5 amp fuses in the
breakers still with the output cord unplugged from the charger.
Checked the voltage at the plug, and it showed 165V, which is what I'm
reading from my pack..

Do I a problem with my charger.

? ? ? Any ideas.


Thanks;
Dennis
Elsberry, MO
http://www.evalbum.com/preview.php?vid=1366


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Discussion Starter #11
[EVDL] EV Grin

Just wanted to thank the listserv for all the valuable information and help
everyone has given. I know I would have never attempted a task like this
without y'all's help.



100% road test / and state inspection today and better than 30 miles. I
also took it up a few of the beast hills (no mountains in Williamsburg, VA)
and it preformed without a flaw. Now I can hardly wait until new/more
amenable price on non-lead batteries comes about so I can try something new.
But that may be a couple of years down the road.



THANKS TO ALL!!!!!

Buddy Mills

<mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]



Look mom, no gas. <http://www.evalbum.com/2887> http://www.evalbum.com/2887



Disclaimer: No animals were harmed or killed in the process of writing this
email. Any stories to the contrary are, for the most part, either fictional
or greatly exaggerated.



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Discussion Starter #12
[EVDL] EV Grin

Hi Folks,

I finally took my 914 out for a real drive this morning - freeway
speeds. I was able to get it up to 70mph without too much trouble. I
don't have energy usage stats yet, that is to be done starting
tomorrow. For now, though, I do know that I got up to 4300 rpm, 112Nm
torque, max current of 123a, batt voltage ranging from 329v to 368v.

Configuration: DMOC445 controller, AC24 motor, 108 Sky Energy 60Ah
batteries, Elithion BMS, Manzanita PFC-20.

Wooohoo! :) :)

Cheers,
Peter
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Peter C. Thompson*
*Qualcomm, Incorporated.* Office: +1 (858) 658-1936 Mobile: +1
(858) 692-3571
AIM: PThompson509 Yahoo!:peter_thompson MSN:
[email protected] Skype: PThompson509

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Discussion Starter #13
Re: [EVDL] EV Grin

Congratulations, Peter! I've been waiting to hear this from you. Do you also
have the vibration, seemingly characteristic of this installation around
4-5k RPM? What's your ballpark 0-60 time (just counting one-thousand-one,
one-thousand-two, ...)?

I'm sure I'm not alone when I say I can't wait to hear your range with these
60Ah LFPs, etc.

All the Best,

--
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http://evalbum.com/2500
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Discussion Starter #14
Re: [EVDL] EV Grin

Hi Dave,

Ballpark 0-60 is around 10 seconds. I'll be sure to time it tomorrow.
After driving it to work, I'll have a very good idea of how much energy
I use (18 miles one-way, with steep canyons inbetween). Fortunately,
work has already provided me with a dedicated parking spot - right next
to a Tesla. :)

Yes, the vibration does occur in the 4-5k range. I'm going to talk to
my mechanic and see if we can balance the motor with the flywheel
attached. I remember him mentioning that we could raise the car, remove
the transmission and then do the balancing with the motor still in the
car. Easy if you have a car lift (which he does and I don't).

Cheers,
Peter

Dave Hale wrote:
> Congratulations, Peter! I've been waiting to hear this from you. Do you also
> have the vibration, seemingly characteristic of this installation around
> 4-5k RPM? What's your ballpark 0-60 time (just counting one-thousand-one,
> one-thousand-two, ...)?
>
> I'm sure I'm not alone when I say I can't wait to hear your range with these
> 60Ah LFPs, etc.
>
> All the Best,
>
>


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Peter C. Thompson*
*Qualcomm, Incorporated.* Office: +1 (858) 658-1936 Mobile: +1
(858) 692-3571
AIM: PThompson509 Yahoo!:peter_thompson MSN:
[email protected] Skype: PThompson509

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Discussion Starter #15
Re: [EVDL] EV Grin

Peter C. Thompson wrote:
> Hi Folks,
>
> I finally took my 914 out for a real drive this morning - freeway
> speeds. I was able to get it up to 70mph without too much trouble. I
> don't have energy usage stats yet, that is to be done starting
> tomorrow. For now, though, I do know that I got up to 4300 rpm, 112Nm
> torque, max current of 123a, batt voltage ranging from 329v to 368v.
>
> Configuration: DMOC445 controller, AC24 motor, 108 Sky Energy 60Ah
> batteries, Elithion BMS, Manzanita PFC-20.

Nice job! For comparison what was your cruise current at say about 60mph?

Chris


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Discussion Starter #16
Re: [EVDL] EV Grin

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Discussion Starter #17
Re: [EVDL] EV Grin

Hi Chris,

I didn't have time to cruise - this was just a dry run for tomorrow.
This trip was just a quick on-off the freeway - total of about 1 mile.

Will keep everyone posted on the overall energy usage, cruise amps,
etc. I'm also saving the data, so I can post a spreadsheet on my blog
with all the data for those of you who REALLY want to know ALL the
details. :)

Cheers,
Peter

Christopher Zach wrote:
> Peter C. Thompson wrote:
>
>> Hi Folks,
>>
>> I finally took my 914 out for a real drive this morning - freeway
>> speeds. I was able to get it up to 70mph without too much trouble. I
>> don't have energy usage stats yet, that is to be done starting
>> tomorrow. For now, though, I do know that I got up to 4300 rpm, 112Nm
>> torque, max current of 123a, batt voltage ranging from 329v to 368v.
>>
>> Configuration: DMOC445 controller, AC24 motor, 108 Sky Energy 60Ah
>> batteries, Elithion BMS, Manzanita PFC-20.
>>
>
> Nice job! For comparison what was your cruise current at say about 60mph?
>
> Chris
>
>

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Discussion Starter #18
Re: [EVDL] EV Grin

Peter,

Peter C. Thompson <[email protected]>wrote:


> Ballpark 0-60 is around 10 seconds.


Nice! I believe that is faster than the ICE (which I think was 12 or 14
sec)!



> I'll be sure to time it tomorrow.
> After driving it to work, I'll have a very good idea of how much energy
> I use (18 miles one-way, with steep canyons inbetween).


Oooh, I'm very interested, as that sounds similar to my commute (minus the
steep canyons--avg grade is only about 1.5% from home-to-work, over 16 mi).
Let us know if you can get a measured range, too. One of the concerns around
the smaller capacity LFPs (the 60 vs. 90Ah) was how much range you could get
out of them.

By the way, how much does the voltage sag under acceleration? ElectroAuto
once told me they thought they 60Ah LFPs were "too soft".


Yes, the vibration does occur in the 4-5k range. I'm going to talk to
> my mechanic and see if we can balance the motor with the flywheel
> attached.


OK. I went through a couple of iterations of balancing flywheel, pressure
plate, etc. The MIT guys have worked on this for years, and to my knowledge
(just following their blog) they never solved it. Since every 914 + Azure
drive has this vibration, and Azure drives in other vehicles DON'T have
this, then I suspect it's something inherent in the car/transaxle, or
combination (maybe some resonant frequency of the trans is excited by the
motor).

I'd say, you should definitely check that the FW+PP are balanced and of
course do the best you can, but don't go crazy over it. I've decided to look
at it as an indicator for when to shift up.

Congrats again. Enjoy!
--
Dave
http://evalbum.com/2500
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Discussion Starter #19
Re: [EVDL] EV Grin

Nice job Peter. My students just recently completed a conversion with the
same Azure power train. We are running a set of NiMH batteries at 144V
nominally. We too have experienced vibrations problems to the degree that
it caused our first motor to burst open during our first test drive. We
have since fixed the problem and are nearing 1000 miles on the system. We
also just did our first formal range test and added a page to our website
with some of the test data which may be of interest to anyone else running
similar setups.

http://www.seaburyhallengineering.com/ac-car-1st-test-drive

<http://www.seaburyhallengineering.com/ac-car-1st-test-drive>Eventually we
would like to try some Sky Energy (CALB) or Thundersky cells with a higher
nominal voltage (144V is near the bottom of the operating range of the
controller). BTW do you have a website documenting your test results?

Regards.
Martin
www.seaburyhallengineering.com

On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Peter C. Thompson
<[email protected]>wrote:

> Hi Dave,
>
> Ballpark 0-60 is around 10 seconds. I'll be sure to time it tomorrow.
> After driving it to work, I'll have a very good idea of how much energy
> I use (18 miles one-way, with steep canyons inbetween). Fortunately,
> work has already provided me with a dedicated parking spot - right next
> to a Tesla. :)
>
> Yes, the vibration does occur in the 4-5k range. I'm going to talk to
> my mechanic and see if we can balance the motor with the flywheel
> attached. I remember him mentioning that we could raise the car, remove
> the transmission and then do the balancing with the motor still in the
> car. Easy if you have a car lift (which he does and I don't).
>
> Cheers,
> Peter
>
> Dave Hale wrote:
> > Congratulations, Peter! I've been waiting to hear this from you. Do you
> also
> > have the vibration, seemingly characteristic of this installation around
> > 4-5k RPM? What's your ballpark 0-60 time (just counting one-thousand-one,
> > one-thousand-two, ...)?
> >
> > I'm sure I'm not alone when I say I can't wait to hear your range with
> these
> > 60Ah LFPs, etc.
> >
> > All the Best,
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Peter C. Thompson*
> *Qualcomm, Incorporated.* Office: +1 (858) 658-1936 Mobile: +1
> (858) 692-3571
> AIM: PThompson509 Yahoo!:peter_thompson MSN:
> [email protected] Skype: PThompson509
>
> _______________________________________________
> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
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>
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Discussion Starter #20
Re: [EVDL] EV Grin

Thanks Martin!

No published data yet - only did the 1st freeway test yesterday. I was
hoping to get real-world data today, but with the hail and high winds, I
chose to drive the Other Car instead. I hope to do the test tomorrow,
and will post the spreadsheet on the blog soon after.

144v is definitely too low for the AC motor - according to Azure
Dynamics, 156v is the minimum nominal. So if you are going to go and
change the voltage, go for as close to 380v as you can. The higher
voltage will allow you to use a different configuration on the motor
(Wye) and will let you use less current.

Cheers,
Peter

martin emde wrote:
> Nice job Peter. My students just recently completed a conversion with the
> same Azure power train. We are running a set of NiMH batteries at 144V
> nominally. We too have experienced vibrations problems to the degree that
> it caused our first motor to burst open during our first test drive. We
> have since fixed the problem and are nearing 1000 miles on the system. We
> also just did our first formal range test and added a page to our website
> with some of the test data which may be of interest to anyone else running
> similar setups.
>
> http://www.seaburyhallengineering.com/ac-car-1st-test-drive
>
> <http://www.seaburyhallengineering.com/ac-car-1st-test-drive>Eventually we
> would like to try some Sky Energy (CALB) or Thundersky cells with a higher
> nominal voltage (144V is near the bottom of the operating range of the
> controller). BTW do you have a website documenting your test results?
>
> Regards.
> Martin
> www.seaburyhallengineering.com
>
> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Peter C. Thompson
> <[email protected]>wrote:
>
>
>> Hi Dave,
>>
>> Ballpark 0-60 is around 10 seconds. I'll be sure to time it tomorrow.
>> After driving it to work, I'll have a very good idea of how much energy
>> I use (18 miles one-way, with steep canyons inbetween). Fortunately,
>> work has already provided me with a dedicated parking spot - right next
>> to a Tesla. :)
>>
>> Yes, the vibration does occur in the 4-5k range. I'm going to talk to
>> my mechanic and see if we can balance the motor with the flywheel
>> attached. I remember him mentioning that we could raise the car, remove
>> the transmission and then do the balancing with the motor still in the
>> car. Easy if you have a car lift (which he does and I don't).
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Peter
>>
>> Dave Hale wrote:
>>
>>> Congratulations, Peter! I've been waiting to hear this from you. Do you
>>>
>> also
>>
>>> have the vibration, seemingly characteristic of this installation around
>>> 4-5k RPM? What's your ballpark 0-60 time (just counting one-thousand-one,
>>> one-thousand-two, ...)?
>>>
>>> I'm sure I'm not alone when I say I can't wait to hear your range with
>>>
>> these
>>
>>> 60Ah LFPs, etc.
>>>
>>> All the Best,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *Peter C. Thompson*
>> *Qualcomm, Incorporated.* Office: +1 (858) 658-1936 Mobile: +1
>> (858) 692-3571
>> AIM: PThompson509 Yahoo!:peter_thompson MSN:
>> [email protected] Skype: PThompson509
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> General support: http://evdl.org/help/
>> Unsubscribe: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>> Archive / Forum: http://evdl.org/archive/
>> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>>
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> .
>
>


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Peter C. Thompson*
*Qualcomm, Incorporated.* Office: +1 (858) 658-1936 Mobile: +1
(858) 692-3571
AIM: PThompson509 Yahoo!:peter_thompson MSN:
[email protected] Skype: PThompson509

_______________________________________________
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