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[EVDL] EV road tax

1272 Views 13 Replies 1 Participant Last post by  EVDL List, 
E
Some how I was under the impression that by driving an EV I was saving
the other none EV driving Americans money . They don't have to pay
for defending my fuel , My fuel don't cause as much of a health
problem , My "engine" doesn't drip oil that finds its way into the
water. Maybe we should tax people who exercise as they won't be sick
as much and there for not be contributing to our hospitals . How about
a tax on any volunteers , anybody that dose anything for free, tax
them. If they charged for there time they would be taxed , Just cause
they Volunteer doesn't mean there time is worth less. How about a
"good Samaritan tax" , you help an old lady broken down by the side
of the road , She would have had to have a tow truck come , lot of tax
money there lost . What about a tax on all those " home gardens " .
People growing food in there back yard . There garden is getting the
same sun and rain as the farmers got and since the farmers gets taxed
shouldn't the home gardener. Should we discourage people from moving
in the right direction just because it may cost others that are moving
in the wrong direction more money?. How about a tax on kids who play
out side instead of watching TV , all that money lost cuzz they didn't
see the TV ads they should have. Maybe to make the people paying gas
tax feel better we could have a sticker on the pump saying " the
dollar you just spent just cost us xx " I don't know the exact cost
but I'll bet its pretty high. Its kind of like taxing trash pickers.
The stuff doesn't go into the land fill , gets recycled so energy is
not being used to make the thing . How would it look it you tried to
pay tax on stuff you pulled out of the garbage . Yes if enough people
lived off the garbage that others through out to make a difference in
the income tax , then they would have to find a way , but right now
going to the tax collector and saying , I want to pay sales tax on all
this stuff in the bed of my truck that I picked up along side the road
cuzz it ain't right me not paying some kind of tax is kind of like an
EV driver saying I'd like to pay my share of the gas tax but as I
don't use gas I don't know how. If you think people think EV drivers
are strange now , they will when we hit them with that question.

lets let the sleeping dog lie
if we tax him for not barking he's libel to bit.
Steve Clunn
--
Tomorrows Ride TODAY !
Visit our shop web page at: www.Greenshedconversions.com

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E
Steve, Like we said in the 1970's: "RIGHT ON !" The Truckers pay a major
premium road tax in most places.And here in Lakeland and Polk County
Florida, and in many other Florida counties we as voters elected and voted
for an additional one cent of sales tax. Now eight years later our roads are
in excellent repair, many have been up-graded, many four way stops are now
traffic signal controlled, Everyone uses the roads, everyone pays sales
tax, even tourists who are just passing thru pay a small part. In Orlando,
many highways ask for "Tolls" to pay for the road, Lakeland and Tampa each
have one toll road as a route to bypass downtown traffic, they work well,
(Tampa's is so successful a couple of years ago they added another layer on
top of the 4 lanes and put 2 lanes 15 feet above the existing road! So when
your politicians start talking about extra taxes for EV's, You tell them
everybody uses the roads so it should be a sales tax increase so everybody
pays a fair share. Now I'll climb down off this soapbox that Steve inspired
me to climb onto. "NEXT?" (Remember to keep relevant to equal treatment for
EV and don't go Political. That should go on a different forum.)
Regards,
*Dennis Lee Miles* (Director) *E.V.T.I. inc*.
*www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM <http://www.e-v-t-i-inc.com/> *(Adviser)*
EVTI-EVAEducation Chapter
*
Phone (863) 944 - 9913
===========================================
Steve Clunn <[email protected]> wrote:

> Some how I was under the impression that by driving an EV I was saving
> the other non EV driving Americans money . They don't have to pay
> for defending my fuel , My fuel don't cause as much of a health
> problem , My "engine" doesn't drip oil that finds its way into the
> water. Maybe we should tax people who exercise as they won't be sick
> as much and there for not be contributing to our hospitals . How about
> a tax on any volunteers , anybody that dose anything for free, tax
> them. If they charged for there time they would be taxed , Just cause
> they Volunteer doesn't mean there time is worth less. How about a
> "good Samaritan tax" , you help an old lady broken down by the side
> of the road , She would have had to have a tow truck come , lot of tax
> money there lost . What about a tax on all those " home gardens " .
> People growing food in their back yard . Their garden is getting the
> same sun and rain as the farmers got and since the farmers gets taxed
> shouldn't the home gardener. Should we discourage people from moving
> in the right direction just because it may cost others that are moving
> in the wrong direction more money?. How about a tax on kids who play
> out side instead of watching TV , all that money lost cuzz they didn't
> see the TV ads they should have. Maybe to make the people paying gas
> tax feel better we could have a sticker on the pump saying " the
> dollar you just spent just cost us xx " I don't know the exact cost
> but I'll bet its pretty high. Its kind of like taxing trash pickers.
> The stuff doesn't go into the land fill , gets recycled so energy is
> not being used to make the thing . How would it look it you tried to
> pay tax on stuff you pulled out of the garbage . Yes if enough people
> lived off the garbage that others through out to make a difference in
> the income tax , then they would have to find a way , but right now
> going to the tax collector and saying , I want to pay sales tax on all
> this stuff in the bed of my truck that I picked up along side the road
> cuzz it ain't right me not paying some kind of tax is kind of like an
> EV driver saying I'd like to pay my share of the gas tax but as I
> don't use gas I don't know how. If you think people think EV drivers
> are strange now , they will when we hit them with that question.
>
> lets let the sleeping dog lie
> if we tax him for not barking he's libel to bite.
> Steve Clunn
> --
> Tomorrows Ride TODAY !
> Visit our shop web page at: www.Greenshedconversions.com
>
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>



--

Initial demand (computed by extrapolating the reservations for GM Volt and
Nissan Leaf,) shall exceed 200,000 vehicles in 2010 and 2011. However only
50,000 vehicles will be marketed, so a LARGE demand for Nice Newer
Conversions is predicted!
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E
Hi Steve,

You really put some thought into the gas tax subject. I enjoyed it and will share it with others. It brings up many interesting points the average person does not consider in the "taxing philosophy."

Leo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Clunn" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, October 4, 2010 10:45:53 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: [EVDL] EV road tax

Some how I was under the impression that by driving an EV I was saving
the other none EV driving Americans money . They don't have to pay
for defending my fuel , My fuel don't cause as much of a health
problem , My "engine" doesn't drip oil that finds its way into the
water. Maybe we should tax people who exercise as they won't be sick
as much and there for not be contributing to our hospitals . How about
a tax on any volunteers , anybody that dose anything for free, tax
them. If they charged for there time they would be taxed , Just cause
they Volunteer doesn't mean there time is worth less. How about a
"good Samaritan tax" , you help an old lady broken down by the side
of the road , She would have had to have a tow truck come , lot of tax
money there lost . What about a tax on all those " home gardens " .
People growing food in there back yard . There garden is getting the
same sun and rain as the farmers got and since the farmers gets taxed
shouldn't the home gardener. Should we discourage people from moving
in the right direction just because it may cost others that are moving
in the wrong direction more money?. How about a tax on kids who play
out side instead of watching TV , all that money lost cuzz they didn't
see the TV ads they should have. Maybe to make the people paying gas
tax feel better we could have a sticker on the pump saying " the
dollar you just spent just cost us xx " I don't know the exact cost
but I'll bet its pretty high. Its kind of like taxing trash pickers.
The stuff doesn't go into the land fill , gets recycled so energy is
not being used to make the thing . How would it look it you tried to
pay tax on stuff you pulled out of the garbage . Yes if enough people
lived off the garbage that others through out to make a difference in
the income tax , then they would have to find a way , but right now
going to the tax collector and saying , I want to pay sales tax on all
this stuff in the bed of my truck that I picked up along side the road
cuzz it ain't right me not paying some kind of tax is kind of like an
EV driver saying I'd like to pay my share of the gas tax but as I
don't use gas I don't know how. If you think people think EV drivers
are strange now , they will when we hit them with that question.

lets let the sleeping dog lie
if we tax him for not barking he's libel to bit.
Steve Clunn
--
Tomorrows Ride TODAY !
Visit our shop web page at: www.Greenshedconversions.com

_______________________________________________
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I agree 100% with all you said. It's the same thing I've been saying for
years.
Neal
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The problem of insufficient road tax revenue has been under discussion for
several years now as fleet mileage has improved. The latest CAFE standards
will provide a bigger push for an alternative way to finance roads than evs,
for at least several years.
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One solution would be to require some simple stripped down gps sealed module
built to a common standard to track accumulated mileage, to be installed on
each vehicle. This could be read each year at an inspection station and
your road tax based on miles driven. It would avoid the problem of people
fooling with the odometer if it were used as the recording system.
--
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>
>
> And just think! with the small amount of data needed, and the cheapness
> of Flash memory, the unit could tell the inspection station exactly
> where your car has been every minute for the last year! Wouldn't that
> be WONDERFUL!
> (note sarcasm in above statement.)
>

yes... the guys with the utility construction company with that in their
truck mentioned that headquarters could tell exactly where they were at all
times... and what speed they were going, and all... it apparently pops up a
warning back in headquarters if the truck's speed exceeded the local speed
limit.

Z

>
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Yes, there are negatives but some "positives" too. For instance, GPS tends
to be horribly finicky and it would be a real shame if somehow the GPS
antenna got shielded and the system quit reporting millage. Don't suggest
that they should detect that because it's also possible to create your own
"GPS" signals that would fool the unit into believing the wrong location.

In summary: Go ahead and let them try GPS. Way too many people will cheat
it.

John G. Lussmyer <[email protected]>wrote:

> On 10/5/2010 9:59 AM, tomw wrote:
> > One solution would be to require some simple stripped down gps sealed
> module
> > built to a common standard to track accumulated mileage, to be installed
> on
> > each vehicle. This could be read each year at an inspection station and
> > your road tax based on miles driven. It would avoid the problem of
> people
> > fooling with the odometer if it were used as the recording system.
>
> And just think! with the small amount of data needed, and the cheapness
> of Flash memory, the unit could tell the inspection station exactly
> where your car has been every minute for the last year! Wouldn't that
> be WONDERFUL!
> (note sarcasm in above statement.)
>
> _______________________________________________
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tomw wrote:
> One solution would be to require some simple stripped down gps sealed module
> built to a common standard to track accumulated mileage, to be installed on
> each vehicle. This could be read each year at an inspection station and
> your road tax based on miles driven. It would avoid the problem of people
> fooling with the odometer if it were used as the recording system.

Road User Charges fraud does happen in New Zealand, but it isn't very
common. Forcing everyone to pay for and maintain a GPS is probably an
inappropriate solution, especially when GPS doesn't work that well in
some terrain and it's an aweful lot easier to jam than an odometer.

Just from a "GPS is really useful" point of view, we really don't want
to put incentives in place for people to acquire and use GPS jammers.

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tomw wrote:

>
> One solution would be to require some simple stripped down gps =

> sealed module
> built to a common standard to track accumulated mileage, to be =

> installed on
> each vehicle. This could be read each year at an inspection station =

> and
> your road tax based on miles driven. It would avoid the problem of =

> people
> fooling with the odometer if it were used as the recording system.
> -- =

> View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413=
529.n4.nabble.com/EV-road-tax-tp2955380p2956464.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive =

> at Nabble.com.
>

Hi Tom,

The UK g'ment have been mooting the possibility of using an RFID chip =

imbedded in the registration (licence) plate and a network of overhead =

gantry based readers to charge vehicles according to milage done. =

This would probably only apply to highways/motorways and VEL (annual =

car tax) would still have to be paid too (see my earlier post on that =

one)! On top of that, fuel tax here is why our petrol/diesel is so =

much dearer than yours - last time I looked, 70% of the price paid is =

tax now and the current UK average prices are UK=A31.166 and UK=A31.196 =

per litre for petrol and diesel resp. You begin to see why the UK =

motorist thinks he's getting a hard time. Is all this coming to the US?

Regards, Martin Winlow
Herts, UK
http://www.evalbum.com/2092
www.winlow.co.uk




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Surveilance as a means of taxation is a very poor solution and could possibly
be unconstitutional in the USA, although this has been waivered by, licensed
drivers, presently for warrantless searches by what is called "Implied
consent" whiich in my personal belief is also unconstitutional.
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Yes it is a poor solution. Partly because it leads to abuse and partly
because it's so dead simple to defeat. RFID chips aren't usually too hard to
zap. It's possible to clone them too. Wouldn't it be funny if you changed
your RFID tag to be the same as the one on the car driven by whomever came
up with the idea of using RFID for taxation? ;-)

The constitutional argument seems invalid in this country. We're doing all
sorts of things already that aren't constitutional and it does not seem as
if the average person or politician cares. So, I don't think that it would
be a real stumbling block.

Ruspert <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> Surveilance as a means of taxation is a very poor solution and could
> possibly
> be unconstitutional in the USA, although this has been waivered by,
> licensed
> drivers, presently for warrantless searches by what is called "Implied
> consent" whiich in my personal belief is also unconstitutional.
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EV-road-tax-tp2955380p2964980.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
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Some States already tax for losses such as a "use tax", that is a tax for
purchases made out of State when you pay no sales tax, and the buyer's home
State has a sales tax. The State wants you to pay for the tax that they are
not entitled to, and call it a "use tax". On vehicles that fall in this
catagory, the title transfer fee includes the "use tax". On other items, you
are required to declare the amount of "use tax" owed and pay it.
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Ruspert wrote:
> Some States already tax for losses such as a "use tax", that is a tax for
> purchases made out of State when you pay no sales tax, and the buyer's home
> State has a sales tax. The State wants you to pay for the tax that they are
> not entitled to, and call it a "use tax". On vehicles that fall in this
> catagory, the title transfer fee includes the "use tax". On other items, you
> are required to declare the amount of "use tax" owed and pay it.

Michigan has such a "use tax". I had to install a separate electric
meter in my garage for charging my EV. I dutifully sent in my "sales and
use tax" form every 3 months as required, for the dollar or so taxes
due. After a year, they sent me a letter saying it was no longer
necessary -- the amount collected was less than their processing fees
(unusually sensible for a government). :)
--
Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen

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