DIY Electric Car Forums banner
Cancel

[EVDL] Fear of EV Power?

1420 Views 19 Replies 1 Participant Last post by  EVDL List, 
E
It is often said, "A little knowledge is a bad thing." But I had to pass
along this observation of EV and Hybrid servicing at a local Dealership. It
was an American Manufacturer's Dealership. My friend was there checking on
uniforms or something. A Mechanic in the Main shop had to perform some
function on the High Voltage Battery. They didn't tell him exactly what the
task was. The vehicle was parked in the center of a cleared space.
Sanctions and Ropes surrounded the vehicle and were about five feet away,
all around it. The "Mechanic" was wearing insulating rubber boots,
insulating heavy rubber gloves that looked like Electrical Linesman's elbow
length gloves. and an orange jump suit printed, "Working on High Voltage
stay clear." With a wide belt around the waist attached to a heavy rope
being held by a helper outside the sanctions and barrier ropes also wearing
the same type gloves . My friend was told if the Mechanic gets a shock the
helper was to pull him back away from the car. Also my friend was warned not
to cross into the roped off area.
Have we been totally unsafe in our Battery handling procedures???
(By the way this *is* factual, not a made-up joke!)
Regards,
*Dennis Lee Miles* (Director) *E.V.T.I. inc*.
*www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM <http://www.e-v-t-i-inc.com/> *(Adviser)*
EVTI-EVAEducation Chapter
*
Phone (863) 944 - 9913 or *[813] ID4 - EVTI* that is: *[813] 434-3884
* {Is this not a "Cool" number?}
Initial demand (computed by extrapolating the reservations for GM Volt and
Nissan Leaf,) shall exceed 200,000 vehicles in 2010 and 2011. However only
50,000 vehicles will be marketed, so a LARGE demand for Nice Newer
Conversions is predicted!
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20101017/bc046be8/attachment.html
_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Save Share
Reply Quote
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
E

· Registered
Joined
·
72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Hi Dennis,
Of course we have been totally unsafe.
Almost as unsafe as most people are when
daily handling highly combustible fluids,
even though they are conveniently dispensed
from a pump nozzle into a filler tube.
Very dangerous and everyone involved should
be wearing full face masks, heavy duty aprons
and oil- and solvent-resistant gloves before
operating any of those seemingly innocent pumps.
No pump should be operated without at least one
attendant standing near with a fire exinguisher.
Should I go on?

I have always worked on my BEV and Hybrid vehicles
with bare hands. Though I do not recommend this
practice if you do not know exactly what you are doing,
it is comparable to operating a gas pump without extra
protection - if the practice and experience is there
then it can be quite (but not completely) safe.

BTW, my EV had a 312V pack (26x12V) and I installed
all batteries; my Prius had a 274V pack where I worked
on the HV cabling and inverter. Quite harmless after
pulling the orange Service plug *and* disconnecting the
12V battery so that no contactors could close...

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Dennis Miles
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2010 1:33 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] Fear of EV Power?

It is often said, "A little knowledge is a bad thing." But I had to
pass
along this observation of EV and Hybrid servicing at a local Dealership.
It was an American Manufacturer's Dealership. My friend was there
checking on uniforms or something. A Mechanic in the Main shop had to
perform some function on the High Voltage Battery. They didn't tell him
exactly what the task was. The vehicle was parked in the center of a
cleared space.
Sanctions and Ropes surrounded the vehicle and were about five feet
away, all around it. The "Mechanic" was wearing insulating rubber boots,
insulating heavy rubber gloves that looked like Electrical Linesman's
elbow length gloves. and an orange jump suit printed, "Working on High
Voltage stay clear." With a wide belt around the waist attached to a
heavy rope being held by a helper outside the sanctions and barrier
ropes also wearing the same type gloves . My friend was told if the
Mechanic gets a shock the helper was to pull him back away from the car.
Also my friend was warned not to cross into the roped off area.
Have we been totally unsafe in our Battery handling procedures???
(By the way this *is* factual, not a made-up joke!) Regards,
*Dennis Lee Miles* (Director) *E.V.T.I. inc*.
*www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM <http://www.e-v-t-i-inc.com/> *(Adviser)*
EVTI-EVAEducation Chapter
*
Phone (863) 944 - 9913 or *[813] ID4 - EVTI* that is: *[813]
434-3884
* {Is this not a "Cool" number?}
Initial demand (computed by extrapolating the reservations for GM Volt
and Nissan Leaf,) shall exceed 200,000 vehicles in 2010 and 2011.
However only 50,000 vehicles will be marketed, so a LARGE demand for
Nice Newer Conversions is predicted!
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20101017/bc046be8/a
ttachment.html
_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 
E

· Registered
Joined
·
72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The safety requirements for working on voltages less than 600 volts requires
a two man team. High voltages above 4999 volts require a four man team.

I been in the electrical field since 1944 and use all the safety electrical
equipment and tools. Today when I work on my 180V batteries which are
consider low voltage, (less than 600 volts) , I triple insulated the work
site by parking the EV on a vinyl floor mat. We use this material which
comes in width of 3, 6, and 12 feet wide up to 300 feet long.

The batteries are in a electrical insulated battery box that has a 1/2 space
from the edge of the batteries to the battery box sides. The battery
charger is also in a separate electrical insulated enclosure that is also
isolated from the frame of the EV.

When I work on the batteries, the battery charger and all other electrical
devices are disconnected from the main battery. If I am working on any of
the links or even watering the batteries, I cover all the batteries that are
between the one I'am working on and me with electrical safe vinyl electrical
rubber blankets.

I normally will start working in the center of the pack and work to the edge
of the battery pack, uncovering the next battery as I go. All the tools I
use are electrical Kline tools which are double insulated a vinyl insulated
handle as all tools have, then a rubber cover over the vinyl and a then a
vinyl cover up to the working edge of the tool.

Electrical workers have to become supper aware of there surroundings, more
so than a layperson that would put there hand on a item and say what's this
is use for as they use to doing with a ICE.

Roland




----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Miles" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2010 1:03 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Fear of EV Power?


> It is often said, "A little knowledge is a bad thing." But I had to pass
> along this observation of EV and Hybrid servicing at a local Dealership.
> It
> was an American Manufacturer's Dealership. My friend was there checking on
> uniforms or something. A Mechanic in the Main shop had to perform some
> function on the High Voltage Battery. They didn't tell him exactly what
> the
> task was. The vehicle was parked in the center of a cleared space.
> Sanctions and Ropes surrounded the vehicle and were about five feet away,
> all around it. The "Mechanic" was wearing insulating rubber boots,
> insulating heavy rubber gloves that looked like Electrical Linesman's
> elbow
> length gloves. and an orange jump suit printed, "Working on High Voltage
> stay clear." With a wide belt around the waist attached to a heavy rope
> being held by a helper outside the sanctions and barrier ropes also
> wearing
> the same type gloves . My friend was told if the Mechanic gets a shock the
> helper was to pull him back away from the car. Also my friend was warned
> not
> to cross into the roped off area.
> Have we been totally unsafe in our Battery handling procedures???
> (By the way this *is* factual, not a made-up joke!)
> Regards,
> *Dennis Lee Miles* (Director) *E.V.T.I. inc*.
> *www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM <http://www.e-v-t-i-inc.com/> *(Adviser)*
> EVTI-EVAEducation Chapter
> *
> Phone (863) 944 - 9913 or *[813] ID4 - EVTI* that is: *[813]
> 434-3884
> * {Is this not a "Cool" number?}
> Initial demand (computed by extrapolating the reservations for GM Volt
> and
> Nissan Leaf,) shall exceed 200,000 vehicles in 2010 and 2011. However only
> 50,000 vehicles will be marketed, so a LARGE demand for Nice Newer
> Conversions is predicted!
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20101017/bc046be8/attachment.html
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 
E

· Registered
Joined
·
72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
In addition, an ICE vehicle has voltage present in the tens of thousand volts
with the ignition system.
--
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Fear-of-EV-Power-tp2998859p2999073.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 
E

· Registered
Joined
·
72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
This sounds like a method to cause the price of service to go up. the
precautions taken are those of an amatuer.
--
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Fear-of-EV-Power-tp2998859p2999066.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 
E

· Registered
Joined
·
72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Ruspert wrote:
>
> In addition, an ICE vehicle has voltage present in the tens of thousand
> volts with the ignition system.
>
When it's not running?
--
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Fear-of-EV-Power-tp2998859p2999097.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Click to expand...
 
E

· Registered
Joined
·
72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hi Roland,

I've been thinking that I should get something like the vinyl electrical
rubber blankets you talk about below. Where would I look for them?

Mike

> When I work on the batteries, the battery charger and all other electrical
devices are disconnected from the main battery. If I am working on any of
the links or even watering the > batteries, I cover all the batteries that
are between the one I'am working on and me with electrical safe vinyl
electrical rubber blankets.
>
> I normally will start working in the center of the pack and work to the
edge of the battery pack, uncovering the next battery as I go. All the tools
I use are electrical Kline tools which > are double insulated a vinyl
insulated handle as all tools have, then a rubber cover over the vinyl and a
then a vinyl cover up to the working edge of the tool.

> Electrical workers have to become supper aware of there surroundings, more
so than a layperson that would put there hand on a item and say what's this
is use for as they use to > doing with a ICE.

> Roland




_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 
E

· Registered
Joined
·
72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hello Mike,

You can get this electrical tools and protective devices from a electrical
supply house. They may have to order some items, because they normally keep
the rubber gloves in stock. Most of these electrical supplies will carry
Kline Electrical tools and items.

Each battery voltage to battery is low which may be 4, 6, or 12 volts. If
you are place a roll of batteries next to each other, you will still have a
maximum of 144 volts per 12 volt battery or 72 volts per 6 volt battery. In
this case, I have use standard 1/8 inch thick neoprene rubber sheets you can
get at a hardware store or at a hose and rubber store that have all kinds in
bulk.

The vinyl floor mats which I have are 3 feet wide and come in a 300 foot
roll are too stiff for using as a battery blanket.




----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Nickerson" <[email protected]>
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2010 8:33 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fear of EV Power?


> Hi Roland,
>
> I've been thinking that I should get something like the vinyl electrical
> rubber blankets you talk about below. Where would I look for them?
>
> Mike
>
> > When I work on the batteries, the battery charger and all other
> > electrical
> devices are disconnected from the main battery. If I am working on any of
> the links or even watering the > batteries, I cover all the batteries that
> are between the one I'am working on and me with electrical safe vinyl
> electrical rubber blankets.
> >
> > I normally will start working in the center of the pack and work to the
> edge of the battery pack, uncovering the next battery as I go. All the
> tools
> I use are electrical Kline tools which > are double insulated a vinyl
> insulated handle as all tools have, then a rubber cover over the vinyl and
> a
> then a vinyl cover up to the working edge of the tool.
>
> > Electrical workers have to become supper aware of there surroundings,
> > more
> so than a layperson that would put there hand on a item and say what's
> this
> is use for as they use to > doing with a ICE.
>
> > Roland
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 
E

· Registered
Joined
·
72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
OSHA requires such safety precautions when working on live high
voltage circuits, since lots of hybrids now have packs in the 600V
range I don't find it particularly surprising.



Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 10/17/2010 3:03 AM, Dennis Miles wrote:
>> It is often said, "A little knowledge is a bad thing." But I had to =
pass
>> along this observation of EV and Hybrid servicing at a local Dealership.=
It
>
> Sounds like FUD and paranoia run wild. By the same logic, you'd need a
> fire truck standing by to fill your gas tank.
>
> --
> Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
> Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
> leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



-- =

www.electric-lemon.com

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Click to expand...
 
E

· Registered
Joined
·
72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
It is not live as soon as the Service plug is removed
and I have not seen any commercial EV packs above 600V.

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behal=
f Of Peter Gabrielsson
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 12:35 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fear of EV Power?

OSHA requires such safety precautions when working on live high voltage cir=
cuits, since lots of hybrids now have packs in the 600V range I don't find =
it particularly surprising.



Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 10/17/2010 3:03 AM, Dennis Miles wrote:
>> It is often said, "A little knowledge is a bad thing." But I had to =

>> pass along this observation of EV and Hybrid servicing at a local =

>> Dealership. It
>
> Sounds like FUD and paranoia run wild. By the same logic, you'd need a =

> fire truck standing by to fill your gas tank.
>
> --
> Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering Sartell M=
N 56377
> | There is a crack in everything leeahart earthlink.net | That's how =

> the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



--
www.electric-lemon.com

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Click to expand...
 
E

· Registered
Joined
·
72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
So, next time I plug in an RV in a RV park,
I need safety gloves, rubber boots, orange overall,
roped-off clearance and a helper at the end of a
rope attached to my belt?
=

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behal=
f Of Peter Gabrielsson
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 12:35 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fear of EV Power?

OSHA requires such safety precautions when working on live high voltage cir=
cuits, since lots of hybrids now have packs in the 600V range I don't find =
it particularly surprising.



Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 10/17/2010 3:03 AM, Dennis Miles wrote:
>> It is often said, "A little knowledge is a bad thing." But I had to =

>> pass along this observation of EV and Hybrid servicing at a local =

>> Dealership. It
>
> Sounds like FUD and paranoia run wild. By the same logic, you'd need a =

> fire truck standing by to fill your gas tank.
>
> --
> Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering Sartell M=
N 56377
> | There is a crack in everything leeahart earthlink.net | That's how =

> the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



--
www.electric-lemon.com

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Click to expand...
 
E

· Registered
Joined
·
72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Fron the OP
"A Mechanic in the Main shop had to perform some
function on the High Voltage Battery. They didn't tell him exactly what the
task was."

Presumably the pack he was working on was live....but we don't either
way since enough detail is not available.


On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 12:39 PM, Cor van de Water <[email protected]> wrot=
e:
> It is not live as soon as the Service plug is removed
> and I have not seen any commercial EV packs above 600V.
>
> Regards,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Beh=
alf Of Peter Gabrielsson
> Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 12:35 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fear of EV Power?
>
> OSHA requires such safety precautions when working on live high voltage c=
ircuits, since lots of hybrids now have packs in the 600V range I don't fin=
d it particularly surprising.
>
>
>
>
Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 10/17/2010 3:03 AM, Dennis Miles wrote:
>>> It is often said, "A little knowledge is a bad thing." But I had to
>>> pass along this observation of EV and Hybrid servicing at a local
>>> Dealership. It
>>
>> Sounds like FUD and paranoia run wild. By the same logic, you'd need a
>> fire truck standing by to fill your gas tank.
>>
>> --
>> Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
>> 814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering Sartell =
MN 56377
>> | There is a crack in everything leeahart earthlink.net | That's how
>> the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
>> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
>
>
> --
> www.electric-lemon.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



-- =

www.electric-lemon.com

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Click to expand...
 
E

· Registered
Joined
·
72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
>since lots of hybrids now have packs in the 600V

no, they are *all* sub 300v traction batteries.

the 600v on the newer hybrids is created by a big dc-dc between the traction
battery and the intermediate DC-bus the motor controllers operate from.

that bus only operates at 600v when the motors are operating at full power
at high rpm.

at all otehr times the bid dc-dc operates straight through, as it is more
efficient, meaning the DC bus is at traction battery voltage.

so ignition off means no 600v on the intermediate DC-bus

Matt

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Gabrielsson" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 3:05 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fear of EV Power?


OSHA requires such safety precautions when working on live high
voltage circuits, since lots of hybrids now have packs in the 600V
range I don't find it particularly surprising.



Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 10/17/2010 3:03 AM, Dennis Miles wrote:
>> It is often said, "A little knowledge is a bad thing." But I had to pass
>> along this observation of EV and Hybrid servicing at a local Dealership.
>> It
>
> Sounds like FUD and paranoia run wild. By the same logic, you'd need a
> fire truck standing by to fill your gas tank.
>
> --
> Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
> Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
> leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



--
www.electric-lemon.com

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.862 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3201 - Release Date: 10/17/10
02:33:00

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Click to expand...
 
E

· Registered
Joined
·
72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
What PPEs OSHA requires for each situation is pretty well defined and
your it is your employers responsibility to make sure you have it or
they can get sued, in fact your supervisor can be held personally
responsible in some states. If you're an employee of the park you may
be required to wear some PPEs to perform the task mentioned, I don't
have the manual handy so I can't tell you.


On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 12:42 PM, Cor van de Water <[email protected]> wrot=
e:
> So, next time I plug in an RV in a RV park,
> I need safety gloves, rubber boots, orange overall,
> roped-off clearance and a helper at the end of a
> rope attached to my belt?
>
> Regards,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Beh=
alf Of Peter Gabrielsson
> Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 12:35 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fear of EV Power?
>
> OSHA requires such safety precautions when working on live high voltage c=
ircuits, since lots of hybrids now have packs in the 600V range I don't fin=
d it particularly surprising.
>
>
>
>
Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 10/17/2010 3:03 AM, Dennis Miles wrote:
>>> It is often said, "A little knowledge is a bad thing." But I had to
>>> pass along this observation of EV and Hybrid servicing at a local
>>> Dealership. It
>>
>> Sounds like FUD and paranoia run wild. By the same logic, you'd need a
>> fire truck standing by to fill your gas tank.
>>
>> --
>> Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
>> 814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering Sartell =
MN 56377
>> | There is a crack in everything leeahart earthlink.net | That's how
>> the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
>> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
>
>
> --
> www.electric-lemon.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



-- =

www.electric-lemon.com

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Click to expand...
 
E

· Registered
Joined
·
72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Hi Peter,

Don't worry, it was a hypothetical question.
I don't work at an RV park, I design high frequent
electronic products for wireless communication and
the high voltage EV stuff is just a hobby.

Yeah, I know about PPEs. I have seen enough guys
with knee protection on their ankles and hearing
protection warming up their right shoulder, because
they were required to wear it...

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behal=
f Of Peter Gabrielsson
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 1:39 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fear of EV Power?

What PPEs OSHA requires for each situation is pretty well defined and your =
it is your employers responsibility to make sure you have it or they can ge=
t sued, in fact your supervisor can be held personally responsible in some =
states. If you're an employee of the park you may be required to wear some =
PPEs to perform the task mentioned, I don't have the manual handy so I can'=
t tell you.


On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 12:42 PM, Cor van de Water <[email protected]> wrot=
e:
> So, next time I plug in an RV in a RV park, I need safety gloves, =

> rubber boots, orange overall, roped-off clearance and a helper at the =

> end of a rope attached to my belt?
>
> Regards,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Director HW & Systems Architecture Group Proxim Wireless Corporation =

> http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On =

> Behalf Of Peter Gabrielsson
> Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 12:35 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fear of EV Power?
>
> OSHA requires such safety precautions when working on live high voltage c=
ircuits, since lots of hybrids now have packs in the 600V range I don't fin=
d it particularly surprising.
>
>
>
>
Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 10/17/2010 3:03 AM, Dennis Miles wrote:
>>> It is often said, "A little knowledge is a bad thing." But I had =

>>> to pass along this observation of EV and Hybrid servicing at a local =

>>> Dealership. It
>>
>> Sounds like FUD and paranoia run wild. By the same logic, you'd need =

>> a fire truck standing by to fill your gas tank.
>>
>> --
>> Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
>> 814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering Sartell =
MN =

>> 56377
>> | There is a crack in everything leeahart earthlink.net | That's how
>> the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
>> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
>
>
> --
> www.electric-lemon.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



--
www.electric-lemon.com

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Click to expand...
 
E

· Registered
Joined
·
72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
>
> no, they are *all* sub 300v traction batteries.
>
> the 600v on the newer hybrids is created by a big dc-dc between the traction
> battery and the intermediate DC-bus the motor controllers operate from.
>
> that bus only operates at 600v when the motors are operating at full power
> at high rpm.
>
> at all otehr times the bid dc-dc operates straight through, as it is more
> efficient, meaning the DC bus is at traction battery voltage.
>
> so ignition off means no 600v on the intermediate DC-bus
>

Yeah you're right, well the volt uses 360V pack. It doesn't much
matter since we don't know what work was being performed, perhaps the
task required the vehicle to be live or perhaps the company was being
overly cautious out of ignorance.

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 
E

· Registered
Joined
·
72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Actually spelled "Klein" tools - just so you have the right idea when you go
to get them.

Joseph H. Strubhar

Web: www.gremcoinc.com

E-mail: [email protected]


----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2010 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fear of EV Power?


> Hello Mike,
>
> You can get this electrical tools and protective devices from a electrical
> supply house. They may have to order some items, because they normally
> keep the rubber gloves in stock. Most of these electrical supplies will
> carry Kline Electrical tools and items.
>
> Each battery voltage to battery is low which may be 4, 6, or 12 volts. If
> you are place a roll of batteries next to each other, you will still have
> a maximum of 144 volts per 12 volt battery or 72 volts per 6 volt battery.
> In this case, I have use standard 1/8 inch thick neoprene rubber sheets
> you can get at a hardware store or at a hose and rubber store that have
> all kinds in bulk.
>
> The vinyl floor mats which I have are 3 feet wide and come in a 300 foot
> roll are too stiff for using as a battery blanket.
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Nickerson" <[email protected]>
> To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2010 8:33 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fear of EV Power?
>
>
>> Hi Roland,
>>
>> I've been thinking that I should get something like the vinyl electrical
>> rubber blankets you talk about below. Where would I look for them?
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> > When I work on the batteries, the battery charger and all other
>> > electrical
>> devices are disconnected from the main battery. If I am working on any
>> of
>> the links or even watering the > batteries, I cover all the batteries
>> that
>> are between the one I'am working on and me with electrical safe vinyl
>> electrical rubber blankets.
>> >
>> > I normally will start working in the center of the pack and work to the
>> edge of the battery pack, uncovering the next battery as I go. All the
>> tools
>> I use are electrical Kline tools which > are double insulated a vinyl
>> insulated handle as all tools have, then a rubber cover over the vinyl
>> and a
>> then a vinyl cover up to the working edge of the tool.
>>
>> > Electrical workers have to become supper aware of there surroundings,
>> > more
>> so than a layperson that would put there hand on a item and say what's
>> this
>> is use for as they use to > doing with a ICE.
>>
>> > Roland
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
>> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 
E

· Registered
Joined
·
72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Miles! Your friend musta walked in on a Performance Art piece!! Find out=
when they will be doing it at SF MOMA - the modern art museum in San Franc=
isco!! I gotta see that !! It reminds me of stories I've heard of one of th=
e ladies on the I.T team down at Phoenix EV racing in the early '90's in ru=
bber boots, red rubber underwear under shorts and lineman gloves as the "sa=
fety person" - What a hoot! =

Performance artists routinely rip off ideas from other performance artists.=
. great setting too!! Is it on YOU tube??

I don't shop where I can't charge.


Message: 8
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 04:03:24 -0400
From: Dennis Miles <[email protected]>
Subject: [EVDL] Fear of EV Power?

It is often said, "A little knowledge is a bad thing."But I had to=
pass
along this observation of EV and Hybrid servicing at a local Dealership.=
It
was an American Manufacturer's Dealership. My friend was there checking on
uniforms or something. A Mechanic in the Main shop had to perform some
function on the High Voltage Battery. They didn't tell him exactly what the
task was. The vehicle was parked in the center of a cleared space.
Sanctions and Ropes surrounded the vehicle and were about five feet away,
all around it. The "Mechanic" was wearing insulating rubber boots,
insulating heavy rubber gloves that looked like Electrical Linesman's elbow
length gloves. and an orange jump suit printed, "Working on High Voltage
stay clear." With a wide belt around the waist attached to a heavy rope
being held by a helper outside the sanctions and barrier ropes also wearing
the same type gloves . My friend was told if the Mechanic gets a shock the
helper was to pull him back away from the car. Also my friend was warned not
to cross into the roped off area.
Have we been totally unsafe in our Battery handling procedures?=
??
(By the way this *is* factual, not a made-up joke!)
Regards,
*Dennis Lee Miles*(Director) *E.V.T.I. inc*.
*www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM <http://www.e-v-t-i-inc.com/> *(Adviser)*
EVTI-EVAEducation Chapter
*
Phone (863) 944 - 9913 or *[813] ID4 - EVTI* that is: *[81=
3] 434-3884
* **************************



=

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20101017/40f49633=
/attachment.html =

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 
E

· Registered
Joined
·
72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
It sounds like common sense and a good education in battery safety has
been substituted by a lot of excess rubber and fear.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20101018/79b341b3/attachment.html
_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 
E

· Registered
Joined
·
72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Gentlemen, and Ladies of the EVDL,
Another detail for your education, the lettering on the jump suit
was the only fluff. The mechanic also wore a heavy rubber apron which was
coverage from neck to knees.All the other details were factual. I am
uncertain as to whether FORD 's manual with which my description is in
strict compliance, was using a standard from OSHA or their "Workman's
Compensation" Insurance company. Of course customers are not to permitted to
observe repair work in the Dealer's shop. Remember these are Auto
Mechanics, Not Electricians.
Regards,
*Dennis Lee Miles* (Director) *E.V.T.I. inc*.
*www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM <http://www.e-v-t-i-inc.com/> *(Adviser)*
EVTI-EVAEducation Chapter
*
Phone (863) 944 - 9913
Initial demand (computed by extrapolating the reservations for GM Volt and
Nissan Leaf,) shall exceed 200,000 vehicles in 2010 and 2011. However only
50,000 vehicles will be marketed, so a LARGE demand for Nice Newer
Conversions is predicted!
==========================================================
Dave Hymers <[email protected]> wrote:

> It sounds like common sense and a good education in battery safety has
> been substituted by a lot of excess rubber and fear.
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20101018/79b341b3/attachment.html
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



--
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20101018/f8c75aaa/attachment.html
_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Click to expand...
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
DIY Electric Car Forums
A forum community dedicated to DIY electric car owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about electric vehicle conversions, builds, performance, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
All EV Conversions and Builds Batteries and Charging EVDL List Technical Discussion New Member Introductions
Top