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Discussion Starter #1
Is it best to use a CO2 or a dry powder extinguisher on batteries (Li ion or lead acid)? Or does it not really matter?

Regards
Andrew

Sent from iPhone

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Discussion Starter #2
Hello Andrew,

I have on board my EV since 75 a CO2 extinguisher which is normally use for
removing the air from a fire of burning combustibles, but it may not in some
cases put out a electrical arc in energized equipment. In this case, you
need a substance that will coat the energized surfaces to stop the arc which
is a dry power type C extinguisher.

I have never had a electrical arc sustain more than a second between on cell
and the side of a aluminum battery case which was grounded. This happen
when I turn on the charger and I quickly turn off the charger and unplug the
AC main plug.

In some cases, just turning off the circuit breaker may not do it, because
the ground path is still connected.

In electrical fire in electrical equipment and cabinets, we first turn off
the power and we like to use the CO2 where it is easier to clean up.

In a battery that is energized all the time and the case is busted open,
then a dry power class C extinguisher is prefer. If the fire is on the
surface of the batteries which was initial cause by a arc and the case and
surrounding material is burning than it's prefer to remove the air by a CO2
extinguisher.

To remove the initial arcing on batteries then try the dry chemical type,
but if the fire has spread to combustibles, then use the CO2.

Roland


----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Wood" <[email protected]>
To: "EVDL" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 1:22 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Fire Extinguishers for batteries


> Is it best to use a CO2 or a dry powder extinguisher on batteries (Li ion
> or lead acid)? Or does it not really matter?
>
> Regards
> Andrew
>
> Sent from iPhone
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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Discussion Starter #3
Always GREAT advice Roland,
I merely wanted to add, when selecting a dry powder extinguisher, the
A-B-C ratings are your application guide. A is burning solids like
upholstery or wood or plastic and dry powder is the least effective on those
so you often see a small A class rating on inexpensive dry powder
extinguishers. The class B rating is effectiveness on burning liquids like
oil or grease fires and those you dare not use water on as water will spread
an oil fire. Dry power is usually most effective on liquids, so a high class
B rating is typical. Class C is electrical. Plasma Boy has a lot of
experience with those of people on this list; he makes a great example for
us all to insulate your battery terminal wrench. For battery fires get the
biggest class C and A rating in the largest extinguisher you can mount in a
accessible location, perhaps two or three in locations where they are
reachable, a step back away from the fire, grab the extinguisher after
activating the physical disconnect, and remove safety pin, point at base of
flames and spray with a sweeping side to side motion. Remember you might
only get a 10 second blast, And save people First, cars and batteries can
be replaced, Friends and Family are Irreplaceable !
Regards
Dennis Miles

Roland Wiench <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hello Andrew,
>
> I have on board my EV since 75 a CO2 extinguisher which is normally use for
> removing the air from a fire of burning combustibles, but it may not in
> some
> cases put out a electrical arc in energized equipment. In this case, you
> need a substance that will coat the energized surfaces to stop the arc
> which
> is a dry power type C extinguisher.
>
> I have never had a electrical arc sustain more than a second between on
> cell
> and the side of a aluminum battery case which was grounded. This happen
> when I turn on the charger and I quickly turn off the charger and unplug
> the
> AC main plug.
>
> In some cases, just turning off the circuit breaker may not do it, because
> the ground path is still connected.
>
> In electrical fire in electrical equipment and cabinets, we first turn off
> the power and we like to use the CO2 where it is easier to clean up.
>
> In a battery that is energized all the time and the case is busted open,
> then a dry power class C extinguisher is prefer. If the fire is on the
> surface of the batteries which was initial cause by a arc and the case and
> surrounding material is burning than it's prefer to remove the air by a CO2
> extinguisher.
>
> To remove the initial arcing on batteries then try the dry chemical type,
> but if the fire has spread to combustibles, then use the CO2.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andrew Wood" <[email protected]>
> To: "EVDL" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 1:22 AM
> Subject: [EVDL] Fire Extinguishers for batteries
>
>
> > Is it best to use a CO2 or a dry powder extinguisher on batteries (Li ion
> > or lead acid)? Or does it not really matter?
> >
> > Regards
> > Andrew
> >
> > Sent from iPhone
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> > | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> > | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> > | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



--
Regards,
*Dennis Lee Miles* (Director) *E.V.T.I. inc*.
*www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM <http://www.e-v-t-i-inc.com/> *(Adviser)*
EVTI-EVAEducation Chapter
*
Phone (813) ID4 - E V T I or (813) 434 - 3884 (I think word phone
numbers can be fun and good mnemonics aid memory.)
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Discussion Starter #4
Yes to all those points.

I used to be a volunteer firefighter and we were taught to always save
ourselves first, other people second and property was a way distant third.
We didn't go in to save somebody unless we were pretty sure we could come
back out too. Nobody went into dangerous situations to save property. That
could be done from outside.

It always drives me nuts when I see a movie or TV show where they're aiming
the fire extinguisher at the flames. Always aim at the BASE of the fire.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Dennis Miles
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 8:52 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fire Extinguishers for batteries

Always GREAT advice Roland,
I merely wanted to add, when selecting a dry powder extinguisher, the
A-B-C ratings are your application guide. A is burning solids like
upholstery or wood or plastic and dry powder is the least effective on those
so you often see a small A class rating on inexpensive dry powder
extinguishers. The class B rating is effectiveness on burning liquids like
oil or grease fires and those you dare not use water on as water will spread
an oil fire. Dry power is usually most effective on liquids, so a high class
B rating is typical. Class C is electrical. Plasma Boy has a lot of
experience with those of people on this list; he makes a great example for
us all to insulate your battery terminal wrench. For battery fires get the
biggest class C and A rating in the largest extinguisher you can mount in a
accessible location, perhaps two or three in locations where they are
reachable, a step back away from the fire, grab the extinguisher after
activating the physical disconnect, and remove safety pin, point at base of
flames and spray with a sweeping side to side motion. Remember you might
only get a 10 second blast, And save people First, cars and batteries can
be replaced, Friends and Family are Irreplaceable !
Regards
Dennis Miles



_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 

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Joined
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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for the advice everyone.

Sent from iPhone

Dennis Miles <[email protected]> wrote:

> Always GREAT advice Roland,
> I merely wanted to add, when selecting a dry powder extinguisher, the
> A-B-C ratings are your application guide. A is burning solids like
> upholstery or wood or plastic and dry powder is the least effective on those
> so you often see a small A class rating on inexpensive dry powder
> extinguishers. The class B rating is effectiveness on burning liquids like
> oil or grease fires and those you dare not use water on as water will spread
> an oil fire. Dry power is usually most effective on liquids, so a high class
> B rating is typical. Class C is electrical. Plasma Boy has a lot of
> experience with those of people on this list; he makes a great example for
> us all to insulate your battery terminal wrench. For battery fires get the
> biggest class C and A rating in the largest extinguisher you can mount in a
> accessible location, perhaps two or three in locations where they are
> reachable, a step back away from the fire, grab the extinguisher after
> activating the physical disconnect, and remove safety pin, point at base of
> flames and spray with a sweeping side to side motion. Remember you might
> only get a 10 second blast, And save people First, cars and batteries can
> be replaced, Friends and Family are Irreplaceable !
> Regards
> Dennis Miles
>
> On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 9:56 AM, Roland Wiench <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Hello Andrew,
>>
>> I have on board my EV since 75 a CO2 extinguisher which is normally use for
>> removing the air from a fire of burning combustibles, but it may not in
>> some
>> cases put out a electrical arc in energized equipment. In this case, you
>> need a substance that will coat the energized surfaces to stop the arc
>> which
>> is a dry power type C extinguisher.
>>
>> I have never had a electrical arc sustain more than a second between on
>> cell
>> and the side of a aluminum battery case which was grounded. This happen
>> when I turn on the charger and I quickly turn off the charger and unplug
>> the
>> AC main plug.
>>
>> In some cases, just turning off the circuit breaker may not do it, because
>> the ground path is still connected.
>>
>> In electrical fire in electrical equipment and cabinets, we first turn off
>> the power and we like to use the CO2 where it is easier to clean up.
>>
>> In a battery that is energized all the time and the case is busted open,
>> then a dry power class C extinguisher is prefer. If the fire is on the
>> surface of the batteries which was initial cause by a arc and the case and
>> surrounding material is burning than it's prefer to remove the air by a CO2
>> extinguisher.
>>
>> To remove the initial arcing on batteries then try the dry chemical type,
>> but if the fire has spread to combustibles, then use the CO2.
>>
>> Roland
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Andrew Wood" <[email protected]>
>> To: "EVDL" <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 1:22 AM
>> Subject: [EVDL] Fire Extinguishers for batteries
>>
>>
>>> Is it best to use a CO2 or a dry powder extinguisher on batteries (Li ion
>>> or lead acid)? Or does it not really matter?
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>> Sent from iPhone
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
>>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>>> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
>>> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
>> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> *Dennis Lee Miles* (Director) *E.V.T.I. inc*.
> *www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM <http://www.e-v-t-i-inc.com/> *(Adviser)*
> EVTI-EVAEducation Chapter
> *
> Phone (813) ID4 - E V T I or (813) 434 - 3884 (I think word phone
> numbers can be fun and good mnemonics aid memory.)
> -------------- next part --------------
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> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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_______________________________________________
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