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Discussion Starter #1
--- "Darin at- forkenswift.com"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> I just mirrored the brush
> offset on the *other* side of
> the pole shoe bolts and thought nothing more about
> it... until this thread
> came up and I actually went out and measured it.
>
> Holy smoke! My brushes are advanced 17 degrees!
> (Measured from center of
> the pole bolts to center of the brushes.)

Hey Darin

First off, yeah you need to bac it off a bit, heck
Waylands is at what I'd call max at 15 degrees for 360
volts.

> Jim, do I take it from your comment that since we're
> just running "mild" @
> 48v in the ForkenSwift, we should actually be aiming
> for 5 degrees brush
> advance?

I'd put them back to nuetral if you're only running 48
volts. From memory those old Ottis / Bakers were used
in 36 and 48 volt units. Either way (extra 12 won't
hurt it).
>
> The car's not legal yet (inspection next week!), but
> I've been driving it
> around some... I mean "testing" it while finishing
> up all the little details
> ... to the tune of 150+ electric kilometers so far.
> So I've gotten pretty
> familiar with the way it feels. Do you think I'll
> notice a significant
> change in performance / efficiency by backing the
> brushes down from where
> they are now? Have I harmed anything by running it
> so far advanced?

It'll be more eff and have a perkier take-off but
probably slower at the top end. I doubt you've done
anything bad (yet), but you do risk straining the
armature and should set it back.

Hope this helps

Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric





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Discussion Starter #2
Jim Husted wrote:
>
> Hope this helps
>

Definitely - thanks again, Jim.

One question though: So why were the brushes so far advanced in the first
place? (They were 17 degrees on the *other* side of the pole bolts before I
reversed rotation direction). It was just a 36v forklift. And this was one
of 2 hydraulic pump motors than ran off straight pack voltage.

Darin
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Discussion Starter #3
Hey Darin

Can you send me a pic of the brushes with the shoe
bolts in the pic? I'd like to make sure we're on the
same page here, as to this 17 degrees. On some pump
motors they did have the brushes advanced, but only by
a bit like 5 degrees. The Prestolite MBD is an
example of a pre-advanced motor pump motor, as is the
MTC with it's 4.5 degrees. Anyway I'd feel better if
I could see what we're talking about. All and all
though, being we're talking about 48 volts (and I know
what motor you have) you should set the brushes dead
nuetral.

While we're here, what RPM (while driving) will 48
volts get those motors up to? This motor's very close
to an ADC 8 in both weight and wind (little courser)
and I'm wondering if you're EVen in the motors sweet
spot, lol. Those Bakers are a good motor and I'm
betting you ain't EVen scratching at what that puppy
could do 8^)
Keep me posted

Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric




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Discussion Starter #4
In a message dated 9/28/2007 8:49:39 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
> orkenSwift advancement
> Date:9/28/2007 8:49:39 PM US Mountain Standard Time
> From:[email protected]
> Reply-to:[email protected]
> To:[email protected]
> Received from Internet:
>
>
>
>
> --- "Darin at- forkenswift.com"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >I just mirrored the brush
> >offset on the *other* side of
> >the pole shoe bolts and thought nothing more about
> >it... until this thread
> >came up and I actually went out and measured it.
> >
> >Holy smoke! My brushes are advanced 17 degrees!
> >(Measured from center of
> >the pole bolts to center of the brushes.)
>
> Hey Darin
>
> First off, yeah you need to bac it off a bit, heck
> Waylands is at what I'd call max at 15 degrees for 360
> volts.
>
> >Jim, do I take it from your comment that since we're
> >just running "mild" @
> >48v in the ForkenSwift, we should actually be aiming
> >for 5 degrees brush
> >advance?
>
> I'd put them back to nuetral if you're only running 48
> volts. From memory those old Ottis / Bakers were used
> in 36 and 48 volt units. Either way (extra 12 won't
> hurt it).
> >
> >The car's not legal yet (inspection next week!), but
> >I've been driving it
> >around some... I mean "testing" it while finishing
> >up all the little details
> >... to the tune of 150+ electric kilometers so far.
> >So I've gotten pretty
> >familiar with the way it feels. Do you think I'll
> >notice a significant
> >change in performance / efficiency by backing the
> >brushes down from where
> >they are now? Have I harmed anything by running it
> >so far advanced?
>
> It'll be more eff and have a perkier take-off but
> probably slower at the top end. I doubt you've done
> anything bad (yet), but you do risk straining the
> armature and should set it back.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Cya
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
>
>
>
As a motor TUNER myself do not assume that the center of the pole shoe is
neutral, FIND NEUTRAL ELECTRICLY!!!! Cya
DENNIS BERUBE
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Discussion Starter #5
--- [email protected] wrote:
> As a motor TUNER myself do not assume that the
> center of the pole shoe is
> neutral, FIND NEUTRAL ELECTRICLY!!!!

Hey Dennis

In general, it's close enough for government work ;^)
Most of this list isn't setup for motor work and
aren't going for perfection, so as a general rule it's
just fine, IMO.

Being that most motors I've seen have a different
advancement degrees for CW and CCW rotation (ADC 8's
and 9's for example), Netgains 12.5 degrees for both
directions is probably not exact, but it's close
enough and works well for a wide variety of voltages,
loads, and ratio's.

As this is a thread about Darins Forkenswift motor, I
felt it was directed more as a jab at my reply and
less toward helping Darin. With that said I stand by
my advice 8^)

Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric




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Discussion Starter #6
In a message dated 9/29/2007 8:45:33 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
> wift advancement
> Date:9/29/2007 8:45:33 AM US Mountain Standard Time
> From:[email protected]
> Reply-to:[email protected]
> To:[email protected]
> Received from Internet:
>
>
>
>
> --- [email protected] wrote:
> >As a motor TUNER myself do not assume that the
> >center of the pole shoe is
> >neutral, FIND NEUTRAL ELECTRICLY!!!!
>
> Hey Dennis
>
> In general, it's close enough for government work ;^)
> Most of this list isn't setup for motor work and
> aren't going for perfection, so as a general rule it's
> just fine, IMO.
>
> Being that most motors I've seen have a different
> advancement degrees for CW and CCW rotation (ADC 8's
> and 9's for example), Netgains 12.5 degrees for both
> directions is probably not exact, but it's close
> enough and works well for a wide variety of voltages,
> loads, and ratio's.
>
> As this is a thread about Darins Forkenswift motor, I
> felt it was directed more as a jab at my reply and
> less toward helping Darin. With that said I stand by
> my advice 8^)
> **A Jab not intended but I do stand by my statement! Dennis
> Cya
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>

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Discussion Starter #7
Jim Husted wrote:
>
> Can you send me a pic of the brushes with the shoe
> bolts in the pic?
>

Sure - here's a pic of the motor in its "stock" configuration (set for CW
rotation, drive end).

http://metrompg.com/offsite/pump-field-term-ccw.jpg

Before I pulled the end cap for this pic, I marked the brush location (black
lines) on the body, which you can compare to the pole bolt head. I
re-measured it, and it wasn't 17 degrees in stock form, it was closer to 12
degrees from the bolt, plus or minus. (Not exact, but close enough for
government work - I like that!)


being we're talking about 48 volts (and I know
> what motor you have) you should set the brushes dead
> nuetral.

Weekend project! I mean *another* weekend project....

OK, I backed the brushes waaaay down towards neutral this morning.
Observations: there's definitely more starting torque; it runs out of steam
a lot sooner (lower RPM) than it used to; under load the volts seem to sag
less than before. I haven't got the ammeter hooked up yet, so I can't tell
you what's happened there.


While we're here, what RPM (while driving) will 48
> volts get those motors up to? This motor's very close
> to an ADC 8 in both weight and wind (little courser)
> and I'm wondering if you're EVen in the motors sweet
> spot, lol. Those Bakers are a good motor and I'm
> betting you ain't EVen scratching at what that puppy
> could do 8^)

Oh, I have no doubt about that! Remember I'm currently running a Curtis
225A golf cart controller :)

Before, with the brushes way advanced, I could get it to 4500 if I had
enough (flat!) road - it just took a while to spool up to that RPM. I
haven't been sticking my foot in it while accelerating though - I'm driving
on used batts that sag quite a bit. I've mostly been tooling around in 1st
& 2nd gears, upshifting from 1st at around 3800 RPM/30 kph, which drops it
down to 2100 RPM for 2nd.

Since this morning, it seems with the brushes backed off, it doesn't really
want to go past about 3300 RPM/25 kph in 1st any more.

But I like the torque and less battery sag. I was able to DRIVE it up my
ramps in the garage, rather than taking a run at them and hoping I didn't go
off the end! (Kidding. Sort of.)

Thanks again for the help.

Darin
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View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/ADC-motors-netrally-timed--Advanced--tf4506252s25542.html#a12959351
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Discussion Starter #8
Darin at- forkenswift.com wrote:
>
> Before, with the brushes way advanced, I could get it to 4500 if I had
> enough (flat!) road - it just took a while to spool up to that RPM. I
> haven't been sticking my foot in it while accelerating though - I'm driving
> on used batts that sag quite a bit. I've mostly been tooling around in 1st
> & 2nd gears, upshifting from 1st at around 3800 RPM/30 kph, which drops it
> down to 2100 RPM for 2nd.
>
> Since this morning, it seems with the brushes backed off, it doesn't really
> want to go past about 3300 RPM/25 kph in 1st any more.
>
> But I like the torque and less battery sag. I was able to DRIVE it up my
> ramps in the garage, rather than taking a run at them and hoping I didn't go
> off the end! (Kidding. Sort of.)

how fast have you been able to take your car? (I am following your steps :)


--
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http://www.carfun.cl | and the oil age will end not for a lack of oil."
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Discussion Starter #9
Eduardo Kaftanski wrote:
>
> how fast have you been able to take your car? (I am following your steps
> :)

Hi Eduardo...

With the brushes crazy advanced, the fastest I managed on a mostly level
road with a fresh charge was around 60 km/h. That was with a loooong
runway.

I'm not sure how much that's changed with the brush timing reduced. I had
it up to 50 km/h today on the same stretch of road, and that seemed to be
about it. But the charge was also low, so it's not apples to apples.

Most of the time I toodle along the side streets at 35-40 km/h. So a top
speed of 50 or 60 km/h is OK by me.

Darin

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