DIY Electric Car Forums banner

1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I forwarded this to my PE (professional engineer) buddy, who
specializes in High voltage and Power. This was his reply. I'd tend to
be on his side with this....

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Mark
Date: Nov 2, 2007 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: 3 pole circuit breaker



Travis you are correct. You can not series the two poles together to
get a higher voltage rating nor can you series contacts on a thermomag
breaker for higher current rating. In the controls world you can
series two contacts on a relay for higher current but you can not do
that on a thermo mag circuit breaker.



>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tehben Dean" <[email protected]>
> To: "EV mail list" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:22 PM
> Subject: [EVDL] 3 pole circuit breaker
>
>
> > I am going to have a 312v (more when fully charged) system that is
> > capable of drawing around 300amps.
> > So my question is can I use a Square D I-Line thermo-magnetic 3 pole

> > circuit breaker rated 350amps at 600v AC or 250v DC and wire it up
> > so that 2 of the poles are in series to increase it's rated voltage?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > --
> > Tehben
> > '90 Toyota 4x4 Pickup
> > 'hElix EV'
> > Website: www.helixev.com
> > evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
You have yet to explain why it wouldn't work?

Travis Gintz <[email protected]> wrote:
> Go for it, but It won't bring the voltage rating to 375V. Reread my
> email from a PE, he reviewed this with two other EE's. Its come up
> before with customers trying to shortcut and cut costs. The contacts
> MUST be rated for the voltage you need. Because the voltage potential
> from one side of the contacts to the other is still 375V.
>
> I saw how you posted on several groups the same question. Which is Why
> I said something. Reread what he said:
>
> "...You can not series the two poles together to
> get a higher voltage rating nor can you series contacts on a thermomag
> breaker for higher current rating. In the controls world you can
> series two contacts on a relay for higher current but you can not do
> that on a thermo mag circuit breaker."
>
> Why don't you call the manufacturer and ask. I'd believe them and a
> couple of degreed PE's over some "self proclaimed professionals" on
> the internet anyway.... Why ask for advice if you aren'g going to
> follow it? It should only take 1% doubt to sway you. If you ignore it
> just because its cheaper...fine.
>
> I can see you're not being too safe....An engineer should ask himself,
> is it safe? And if anyone raised a question as to whether it was safe
> or not, they would immediately stop and verify from a manufacturer/NEC
> code/UL etc. You are ignoring one person that is telling you that its
> not safe. Where does that leave your project? Would you fly a plane
> where they did this with the breaker going to the fuel pumps? HELL NO!
>
> Others may have it working because the Contacts are derated a certain
> percentage. What if its on the hairy edge... now you've got a
> potential ticking time bomb.
>
> Good luck,
> Travis Gintz
> BSEE Virginia Tech 2004
> Leviton Manufacturing and Lighting Control Systems
>
>
> On 11/2/07, Tehben Dean <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I decided to get some of these:
> >
> > Airpax Part Number JLM-1-1RLS5 30140-250
> > 125 Volt DC Circuit Breaker
> > Trip Amps 313
> > Hold Amps 250
> > Delay 53 Amps
> >
> > and put three of them in series with all the handles ganged together
> > so if one trips all three are opened.
> > This will bring the voltage rating to 375v.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Tehben
> >
> >
> >
> > On 11/2/07, Travis Gintz <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > I forwarded this to my PE (professional engineer) buddy, who
> > > specializes in High voltage and Power. This was his reply. I'd tend to
> > > be on his side with this....
> > >
> > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > From: Mark
> > > Date: Nov 2, 2007 10:04 AM
> > > Subject: RE: 3 pole circuit breaker
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Travis you are correct. You can not series the two poles together to
> > > get a higher voltage rating nor can you series contacts on a thermomag
> > > breaker for higher current rating. In the controls world you can
> > > series two contacts on a relay for higher current but you can not do
> > > that on a thermo mag circuit breaker.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Tehben Dean" <[email protected]>
> > > > To: "EV mail list" <[email protected]>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:22 PM
> > > > Subject: [EVDL] 3 pole circuit breaker
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I am going to have a 312v (more when fully charged) system that is
> > > > > capable of drawing around 300amps.
> > > > > So my question is can I use a Square D I-Line thermo-magnetic 3 pole
> > >
> > > > > circuit breaker rated 350amps at 600v AC or 250v DC and wire it up
> > > > > so that 2 of the poles are in series to increase it's rated voltage?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > --
> > > > > Tehben
> > > > > '90 Toyota 4x4 Pickup
> > > > > 'hElix EV'
> > > > > Website: www.helixev.com
> > > > > evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > For subscription options, see
> > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Tehben
> > '90 Toyota 4x4 Pickup
> > 'hElix EV'
> > Website: www.helixev.com
> > evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
>
> --
> Travis Gintz
> 1986 Honda VFR AC conversion
> Http://blog.evfr.net/
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



--
www.electric-lemon.com

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Peter, thank you for your comment.... I see you're have not "borught
anything to the table" so I'll ignore what you said.

I actually just called Airpax applications. He said you CANNOT gang
them together as he wants to do. They are NOT designed for that
rating. They said they can design them to be used for 375 AT THE
FACTORY, but they are not rated. for that voltage. Its a safety issue.
It has to do about how the magnetic breaker works. Its not designed to
work at a higher voltage.

I don't HAVE to explain the physics principals of how it doesn't work.
Its not that it won't work, Its that it won't work as its supposed to.
You might get false trip (not too bad). But you may also get a long
trip, and that has the potential to cause an arc, and burn out the
controller/motor. Also when it does break the circuit, its a potential
safety issue. This discussion was never the how's and whys of it
working, but rather if he should do it.

Don't believe me. I've got a degree, and so do the 5 people i've gone
out of my way to talk to. At first because I wanted a second opinion.
I did this because I don't think its safe, nor is it advised by anyone
other than a few people online. I don't want to prove you wrong. I
don't want your car having a fire under the hood because you decided
to throw it together and wait until it DOESN'T work.

And why should I prove why it shouldn't work....no one has yet
explained to me why it CAN WORK! and how it IS SAFE? How about that?
I've proved more than enough, asked engineers and gotten AIRPAX to
back me.

I'm only asking that you reconsider, Call Airpax and ask their
applications engineer. I talked to George Evans at 410-221-9432. Ask
him why it won't work or why you shouldn't do it.

regards,
Travis

On 11/2/07, Peter Gabrielsson <[email protected]> wrote:
> You have yet to explain why it wouldn't work?
>
>
Travis Gintz <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Go for it, but It won't bring the voltage rating to 375V. Reread my
> > email from a PE, he reviewed this with two other EE's. Its come up
> > before with customers trying to shortcut and cut costs. The contacts
> > MUST be rated for the voltage you need. Because the voltage potential
> > from one side of the contacts to the other is still 375V.
> >
> > I saw how you posted on several groups the same question. Which is Why
> > I said something. Reread what he said:
> >
> > "...You can not series the two poles together to
> > get a higher voltage rating nor can you series contacts on a thermomag
> > breaker for higher current rating. In the controls world you can
> > series two contacts on a relay for higher current but you can not do
> > that on a thermo mag circuit breaker."
> >
> > Why don't you call the manufacturer and ask. I'd believe them and a
> > couple of degreed PE's over some "self proclaimed professionals" on
> > the internet anyway.... Why ask for advice if you aren'g going to
> > follow it? It should only take 1% doubt to sway you. If you ignore it
> > just because its cheaper...fine.
> >
> > I can see you're not being too safe....An engineer should ask himself,
> > is it safe? And if anyone raised a question as to whether it was safe
> > or not, they would immediately stop and verify from a manufacturer/NEC
> > code/UL etc. You are ignoring one person that is telling you that its
> > not safe. Where does that leave your project? Would you fly a plane
> > where they did this with the breaker going to the fuel pumps? HELL NO!
> >
> > Others may have it working because the Contacts are derated a certain
> > percentage. What if its on the hairy edge... now you've got a
> > potential ticking time bomb.
> >
> > Good luck,
> > Travis Gintz
> > BSEE Virginia Tech 2004
> > Leviton Manufacturing and Lighting Control Systems
> >
> >
> > On 11/2/07, Tehben Dean <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > I decided to get some of these:
> > >
> > > Airpax Part Number JLM-1-1RLS5 30140-250
> > > 125 Volt DC Circuit Breaker
> > > Trip Amps 313
> > > Hold Amps 250
> > > Delay 53 Amps
> > >
> > > and put three of them in series with all the handles ganged together
> > > so if one trips all three are opened.
> > > This will bring the voltage rating to 375v.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Tehben
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 11/2/07, Travis Gintz <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > I forwarded this to my PE (professional engineer) buddy, who
> > > > specializes in High voltage and Power. This was his reply. I'd tend to
> > > > be on his side with this....
> > > >
> > > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > > From: Mark
> > > > Date: Nov 2, 2007 10:04 AM
> > > > Subject: RE: 3 pole circuit breaker
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Travis you are correct. You can not series the two poles together to
> > > > get a higher voltage rating nor can you series contacts on a thermomag
> > > > breaker for higher current rating. In the controls world you can
> > > > series two contacts on a relay for higher current but you can not do
> > > > that on a thermo mag circuit breaker.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Tehben Dean" <[email protected]>
> > > > > To: "EV mail list" <[email protected]>
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:22 PM
> > > > > Subject: [EVDL] 3 pole circuit breaker
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > I am going to have a 312v (more when fully charged) system that is
> > > > > > capable of drawing around 300amps.
> > > > > > So my question is can I use a Square D I-Line thermo-magnetic 3 pole
> > > >
> > > > > > circuit breaker rated 350amps at 600v AC or 250v DC and wire it up
> > > > > > so that 2 of the poles are in series to increase it's rated voltage?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Tehben
> > > > > > '90 Toyota 4x4 Pickup
> > > > > > 'hElix EV'
> > > > > > Website: www.helixev.com
> > > > > > evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > For subscription options, see
> > > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Tehben
> > > '90 Toyota 4x4 Pickup
> > > 'hElix EV'
> > > Website: www.helixev.com
> > > evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > For subscription options, see
> > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Travis Gintz
> > 1986 Honda VFR AC conversion
> > Http://blog.evfr.net/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
>
>
> --
> www.electric-lemon.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


--
Travis Gintz
1986 Honda VFR AC conversion
Http://blog.evfr.net/

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Travis Gintz wrote:

> I forwarded this to my PE (professional engineer) buddy, who
> specializes in High voltage and Power. This was his reply.
> I'd tend to be on his side with this....
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Mark
> Date: Nov 2, 2007 10:04 AM
> Subject: RE: 3 pole circuit breaker
>
>
>
> Travis you are correct. You can not series the two poles
> together to get a higher voltage rating nor can you series
> contacts on a thermomag
> breaker for higher current rating. In the controls world you can
> series two contacts on a relay for higher current but you can
> not do that on a thermo mag circuit breaker.

Your friend appears to be confused, which might be due to our systems falling into what is considered "low voltage" (<1kV), and therefore being outside his realm of expertise. Things may be quite different at several kV...

Connecting breaker poles in series to increase the voltage rating is a practice recommended by the breaker manufacturers themselves.

See for example Square D Bulletin No. D-453A, which describes the DC-ratings of several breaker families and specifically lists the required series connection of multiple poles to achieve the stated ratings for a given breaker (if the link below doesn't work, just google 'bulletin D-453A'):

<http://ecatalog.squared.com/pubs/Circuit%20Protection/Molded%20Case%20Circuit%20Breakers/Thermal%20Magnetic%20Molded%20Case%20Circuit%20Breakers/LA-LH/0601DB0401.pdf>

Cheers,

Roger.

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Travis,
Thanks for trying to help, but you seem to be misunderstanding me a bit.

For one I was never trying to increase current rating, only voltage rating.

Second, this is incorrect "Why ask for advice if you aren'g going to
follow it?" because I decided not to use a 3-pole breaker after
finding out it wouldn't work.

I decided to use 3 single pole breakers on the suggestion of another EVer.
Your question to your friend was concerning the 3-pole breaker.
Which I believe is a different situation and so has nothing to do with
not taking advice.

Also this is the only place I have asked this question... (I asked a
similar but not the same question on the Alaska EV group)

Since Travis is bringing up these concerns and for safety sake can
anyone else comment on using 3 of these in series:

Airpax Part Number JLM-1-1RLS5 30140-250
125 Volt DC Circuit Breaker
Trip Amps 313
Hold Amps 250
Delay 53 Amps

...by the way I am also fusing the pack and everything is sealed and
there is going to be no exposed high voltage wiring so the main reason
for the breakers is for an extra means of protection and for use as an
on/off switch for working on the battery pack.

Cheers,
--
Tehben
'90 Toyota 4x4 Pickup
'hElix EV'
Website: www.helixev.com
evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
> Thanks for trying to help, but you seem to be misunderstanding me a bit.
> For one I was never trying to increase current rating, only voltage rating.

I misread it at first about the current rating. I took that back and
researched for you further once I reread it. I responded after and
said I would contact someone about this issue.


> Second, this is incorrect "Why ask for advice if you aren'g going to
> follow it?" because I decided not to use a 3-pole breaker after
> finding out it wouldn't work.

But the theory is still the same, you're putting them in series. That
is what you asked. That is your application. Also, its against the
manufacturers recomended spec. Read the spec sheet. Call them.


> I decided to use 3 single pole breakers on the suggestion of another EVer.
> Your question to your friend was concerning the 3-pole breaker.
> Which I believe is a different situation and so has nothing to do with
> not taking advice.

How is it different? How can you know that the other ev'er was
correct? I'd follow the specs from the maker of the breaker you
bought... not what other people have done with theirs.

> Also this is the only place I have asked this question... (I asked a
> similar but not the same question on the Alaska EV group)

True, but it led into this question, and you obviously took their advice.


> Since Travis is bringing up these concerns and for safety sake can
> anyone else comment on using 3 of these in series:
>
> Airpax Part Number JLM-1-1RLS5 30140-250
> 125 Volt DC Circuit Breaker
> Trip Amps 313
> Hold Amps 250
> Delay 53 Amps

Can someone out there PROVE that its 100% safe? Can anyone prove that
the concerns I brought up are wrong? Are there other people doing this
out there?

> ...by the way I am also fusing the pack and everything is sealed and
> there is going to be no exposed high voltage wiring so the main reason
> for the breakers is for an extra means of protection and for use as an
> on/off switch for working on the battery pack.
>

If you use those breakers, then enclosing is the safest bet. Put the
box away from batteries, or anything that would ignite with a spark. I
think i read that these have arc paths in them. Put some extra metal
down, so if it arcs, and creates plasma, it doesn't get a chance to
melt through the enclosure before its extinguished.

I don't want to be all high and mighty, I just don't want someone to
get hurt using the wrong part, thats all. I work as an engineer with
customers that want to circumvent our specifications. While it may
work in some cases, it might not work in another. Thats not 100%.
Please don't take it as me being an asshole. All it takes is one screw
sheering off to cause a helicopter to spin out of control. All it
takes is one part in the system to cause a fire in an EV. Just be
careful. Call them, then test it out first.


--
Travis Gintz
1986 Honda VFR AC conversion
Http://blog.evfr.net/

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Tehben Dean wrote:

> Since Travis is bringing up these concerns and for safety
> sake can anyone else comment on using 3 of these in series:
>
> Airpax Part Number JLM-1-1RLS5 30140-250
> 125 Volt DC Circuit Breaker
> Trip Amps 313
> Hold Amps 250
> Delay 53 Amps
>
> ...by the way I am also fusing the pack and everything is
> sealed and there is going to be no exposed high voltage
> wiring so the main reason for the breakers is for an extra
> means of protection and for use as an on/off switch for
> working on the battery pack.

The Airpax datasheet for this family is:

<http://www.airpax.net/site/utilities/eliterature/pdfs/JAE_JRE_JTE_JLE.pdf>

They do not mention connecting breakers in series for increased voltage ratings, though they do specifically offer a 2-pole model with a 125/150VDC rating where the 250VDC rating is achived by connecting both poles in series.

It is very likely that using 3 single pole breakers in series like this will be just fine. You can ensure that it is by comparing the delay 53 trip curve for the breaker with that for your fuse(s). As long as the fuse opens first and is rated for the voltage, then the breaker will never open with full pack voltage across it anyway.

Along the same lines, since our power sources are batteries with non-negligible internal resistance, their voltage sags with load. In order for your breaker to open, you need to be drawing in excess of 250A, and so your battery voltage will be below nominal when the breaker opens (the voltage will not recover immediately upon removal of the load).

One precaution you should take when wiring/installing the breakers is to ensure that the current flows through all poles in the intended direction and that you either space the breakers apart or otherwise take precaution to ensure that a flashover cannot occur between adjacent connections.

A possible difference between wiring 3 single-pole breakers in series vs wiring the poles of a 2-pole breaker in series might be that the poles of the 2-pole breaker are built to ensure that they will open/close at the same time while poles of individual breakers may have greater variance in their actual opening/closing despite the handles being mechanically tied together and operating at the same time.

If you really wanted to be sure, I'd suggest using a 3-pole KA series breaker from Square D; this gives you a 500-600VDC rated breaker (all poles in series, per manufacturer spec), and a 225A model can be had for a little over $500 (reconditioned), or a bit over $700 new:

<http://www.pacificcoastbreaker.com/products/9788>

The 250A 3-pole KA is pricier, and I expect that even with your 300A peak capability you would not have problems with a 225A-rated breaker.

The LA series is similarly rated, but you can use a 2-pole rather than 3-pole and still have the 500-600VDC rating, however a brief online search suggests that the LA goes for about $800 (reconditioned) in either 2 or 3-pole.

I'm sure other manufacturers have similarly-rated models, but Square D are the ones that I know of offhand.

Hope this helps,

Roger.

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
"It is very likely that using 3 single pole breakers in series like
this will be just fine"

Thats correct. But....I called them and they said not to. Call them
back if you don't believe me. You have yet to PROVE that its safe to
do.

Good luck Dean.

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Travis Gintz wrote:

> I know about some manufacturers allowing it. But I called
> Airpax, and they do not recommend it. Period. The engineer I
> talked with was not confused.

My response was to your high voltage high power specialist PE friend's remarks, not those or the Airpax engineer you later contacted.

> I forwarded him the quoted
> question. Said that its DC, low voltage. He said that it can
> be allowed with contactors, but is not a clear cut CORRECT
> way to wire with breakers.

And he may be correct that it is not a "correct" way to use his particular model of breaker, but it is incorrect to make a blanket statement of it being an incorrect way to use ANY breaker. The Square D bulletin I referred you to specifically describes connecting two single-pole breakers in series to achieve 2x the voltage rating of a single breaker, as well as describing the proper series connection of the poles of a single multiple pole breaker to achieve a higher voltage rating.

While I appreciate the effort you've gone through in trying to get a definitive answer from Airpax for Tehben, we don't actually know what question you asked, and so there is a small possibility that the engineer correctly answered the wrong question, or was not provided a detail that might have tempered his response. For instance, that the breakers would be mechanically linked to force all poles to open and close together.

> If the manufacturer does not recomend it, and its operated
> outside of spec, is it safe? Well, we don't know. But its not
> 100% now is it?

Exactly! ;^> Just because the manufacturer won't go on record as recommending something doesn't mean it won't work (liability and all that), and often the voltage ratings are simply the level to which the device was tested, not the level at which it fails. (Standard ratings seem to be 63V, 125V, 160V, 250V, 500V, etc., so a device rated 125V might actually work up to almost 160V or even almost 250V, but simply wasn't tested for anything but the 125V rating (testing costs).

If Tehben wants to use something outside of its intended applicaiton/ratings, then he may have to test it himself to verify that it does work acceptably for him.

Cheers,

Roger.

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
> > I know about some manufacturers allowing it. But I called
> > Airpax, and they do not recommend it. Period. The engineer I
> > talked with was not confused.
>
> My response was to your high voltage high power specialist PE friend's remarks, not those or the Airpax engineer you later contacted.

That is who I was referring to in the above statement, the PE friends.
I'm sorry that was unclear, I'm writing a little bit at a time while
doing some autocad.


> > I forwarded him the quoted
> > question. Said that its DC, low voltage. He said that it can
> > be allowed with contactors, but is not a clear cut CORRECT
> > way to wire with breakers.
>
> And he may be correct that it is not a "correct" way to use his particular model of breaker, but it is incorrect to make a blanket statement of it being an incorrect way to use ANY breaker. The Square D bulletin I referred you to specifically describes connecting two single-pole breakers in series to achieve 2x the voltage rating of a single breaker, as well as describing the proper series connection of the poles of a single multiple pole breaker to achieve a higher voltage rating.

It wasn't making a blanked statement, I was saying unless its in the
spec, and the company recommends it, its not going to be 100%. it may
work, it may do what you need, but its not reliable, its not proven
safe. That statement is a 100% true statement, always. I'm saying "its
not ok to do, UNLESS..." Also, he's not using squareD. He's using
Airpax. Different manufacturers use different designs due to patent
laws. Do you know why airpax said No?

> While I appreciate the effort you've gone through in trying to get a definitive answer from Airpax for Tehben, we don't actually know what question you asked, and so there is a small possibility that the engineer correctly answered the wrong question, or was not provided a detail that might have tempered his response. For instance, that the breakers would be mechanically linked to force all poles to open and close together.

I said that I ordered some breakers, gave him the part number, and
told him that I needed to use these in a DC application where the
voltage was over 300V, but at the same current rating of the single
breaker. I then asked if I could put them in series to acheive the
voltage rating I need, with the handles tied together. He laughed and
said no, and that If I needed something rated for that, they could do
it at the factory where they make custom breakers. He did not
elaborate other than it was to do with the design of the magnetic part
of the breaker, and how it actually breaks contact.

> > If the manufacturer does not recomend it, and its operated
> > outside of spec, is it safe? Well, we don't know. But its not
> > 100% now is it?
>
> Exactly! ;^> Just because the manufacturer won't go on record as recommending something doesn't mean it won't work (liability and all that), and often the voltage ratings are simply the level to which the device was tested, not the level at which it fails. (Standard ratings seem to be 63V, 125V, 160V, 250V, 500V, etc., so a device rated 125V might actually work up to almost 160V or even almost 250V, but simply wasn't tested for anything but the 125V rating (testing costs).

I said its not SAFE and he shouldn't do it without reading the spec,
and calling the manufacturer. It could work, but for how long? and
what if there is a problem? Who's liable? Who gets hurt? whats the
damage? And as far as ratings, they always push the device to the
failure limit... and derate it according to their procedures. GE
Energy derated all of their stuff 25-50%. It would operate at a higher
voltage/current, but the life was decreased and failures increased
over time.


> If Tehben wants to use something outside of its intended applicaiton/ratings, then he may have to test it himself to verify that it does work acceptably for him.

Yup. Just hope he's careful, thats all i was trying to say.

If I could stop one person, who may not know the dangers of something,
whether it be a kid running into a street, or an electrician wiring up
600VDC on a bus.... I'm 100% going to warn them 100% of the time. Its
not is it righ or wrong, or will it work, its the REMOTE POSSIBILITY
that something could go wrong.

Thanks, Its been a fun day at work, talking to people in the other
engineering department. I haven't met some of them yet, so if
anything, I met some new people today!

--
Travis Gintz
1986 Honda VFR AC conversion
Http://blog.evfr.net/

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Gee, you did a really poor job ignoring me there. Perhaps the way I
stated my question could have been better,but, I was just wondering
why it wouldn't work?


Travis Gintz <[email protected]> wrote:
> Peter, thank you for your comment.... I see you're have not "borught
> anything to the table" so I'll ignore what you said.
>
> I actually just called Airpax applications. He said you CANNOT gang
> them together as he wants to do. They are NOT designed for that
> rating. They said they can design them to be used for 375 AT THE
> FACTORY, but they are not rated. for that voltage. Its a safety issue.
> It has to do about how the magnetic breaker works. Its not designed to
> work at a higher voltage.
>
> I don't HAVE to explain the physics principals of how it doesn't work.
> Its not that it won't work, Its that it won't work as its supposed to.
> You might get false trip (not too bad). But you may also get a long
> trip, and that has the potential to cause an arc, and burn out the
> controller/motor. Also when it does break the circuit, its a potential
> safety issue. This discussion was never the how's and whys of it
> working, but rather if he should do it.
>
> Don't believe me. I've got a degree, and so do the 5 people i've gone
> out of my way to talk to. At first because I wanted a second opinion.
> I did this because I don't think its safe, nor is it advised by anyone
> other than a few people online. I don't want to prove you wrong. I
> don't want your car having a fire under the hood because you decided
> to throw it together and wait until it DOESN'T work.
>
> And why should I prove why it shouldn't work....no one has yet
> explained to me why it CAN WORK! and how it IS SAFE? How about that?
> I've proved more than enough, asked engineers and gotten AIRPAX to
> back me.
>
> I'm only asking that you reconsider, Call Airpax and ask their
> applications engineer. I talked to George Evans at 410-221-9432. Ask
> him why it won't work or why you shouldn't do it.
>
> regards,
> Travis
>
>
> On 11/2/07, Peter Gabrielsson <[email protected]> wrote:
> > You have yet to explain why it wouldn't work?
> >
> > On Nov 2, 2007 11:35 AM, Travis Gintz <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > Go for it, but It won't bring the voltage rating to 375V. Reread my
> > > email from a PE, he reviewed this with two other EE's. Its come up
> > > before with customers trying to shortcut and cut costs. The contacts
> > > MUST be rated for the voltage you need. Because the voltage potential
> > > from one side of the contacts to the other is still 375V.
> > >
> > > I saw how you posted on several groups the same question. Which is Why
> > > I said something. Reread what he said:
> > >
> > > "...You can not series the two poles together to
> > > get a higher voltage rating nor can you series contacts on a thermomag
> > > breaker for higher current rating. In the controls world you can
> > > series two contacts on a relay for higher current but you can not do
> > > that on a thermo mag circuit breaker."
> > >
> > > Why don't you call the manufacturer and ask. I'd believe them and a
> > > couple of degreed PE's over some "self proclaimed professionals" on
> > > the internet anyway.... Why ask for advice if you aren'g going to
> > > follow it? It should only take 1% doubt to sway you. If you ignore it
> > > just because its cheaper...fine.
> > >
> > > I can see you're not being too safe....An engineer should ask himself,
> > > is it safe? And if anyone raised a question as to whether it was safe
> > > or not, they would immediately stop and verify from a manufacturer/NEC
> > > code/UL etc. You are ignoring one person that is telling you that its
> > > not safe. Where does that leave your project? Would you fly a plane
> > > where they did this with the breaker going to the fuel pumps? HELL NO!
> > >
> > > Others may have it working because the Contacts are derated a certain
> > > percentage. What if its on the hairy edge... now you've got a
> > > potential ticking time bomb.
> > >
> > > Good luck,
> > > Travis Gintz
> > > BSEE Virginia Tech 2004
> > > Leviton Manufacturing and Lighting Control Systems
> > >
> > >
> > > On 11/2/07, Tehben Dean <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > I decided to get some of these:
> > > >
> > > > Airpax Part Number JLM-1-1RLS5 30140-250
> > > > 125 Volt DC Circuit Breaker
> > > > Trip Amps 313
> > > > Hold Amps 250
> > > > Delay 53 Amps
> > > >
> > > > and put three of them in series with all the handles ganged together
> > > > so if one trips all three are opened.
> > > > This will bring the voltage rating to 375v.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Tehben
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 11/2/07, Travis Gintz <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > I forwarded this to my PE (professional engineer) buddy, who
> > > > > specializes in High voltage and Power. This was his reply. I'd tend to
> > > > > be on his side with this....
> > > > >
> > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > > > From: Mark
> > > > > Date: Nov 2, 2007 10:04 AM
> > > > > Subject: RE: 3 pole circuit breaker
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Travis you are correct. You can not series the two poles together to
> > > > > get a higher voltage rating nor can you series contacts on a thermomag
> > > > > breaker for higher current rating. In the controls world you can
> > > > > series two contacts on a relay for higher current but you can not do
> > > > > that on a thermo mag circuit breaker.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Tehben Dean" <[email protected]>
> > > > > > To: "EV mail list" <[email protected]>
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:22 PM
> > > > > > Subject: [EVDL] 3 pole circuit breaker
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I am going to have a 312v (more when fully charged) system that is
> > > > > > > capable of drawing around 300amps.
> > > > > > > So my question is can I use a Square D I-Line thermo-magnetic 3 pole
> > > > >
> > > > > > > circuit breaker rated 350amps at 600v AC or 250v DC and wire it up
> > > > > > > so that 2 of the poles are in series to increase it's rated voltage?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Tehben
> > > > > > > '90 Toyota 4x4 Pickup
> > > > > > > 'hElix EV'
> > > > > > > Website: www.helixev.com
> > > > > > > evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > For subscription options, see
> > > > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Tehben
> > > > '90 Toyota 4x4 Pickup
> > > > 'hElix EV'
> > > > Website: www.helixev.com
> > > > evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > For subscription options, see
> > > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Travis Gintz
> > > 1986 Honda VFR AC conversion
> > > Http://blog.evfr.net/
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> > > For subscription options, see
> > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > www.electric-lemon.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
>
> --
> Travis Gintz
> 1986 Honda VFR AC conversion
> Http://blog.evfr.net/
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



--
www.electric-lemon.com

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
travis these guys are want to bes who already know it all with no experence in the electrical field and electronics training so they already know everything !!! I tried to warn a fellow on this subject about 6 mo ago and got blasted off the list for 3 mo . so tewll them once and then let them learn with their wallet
----- Original Message -----
From: Travis Gintz<mailto:[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 2:18 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fwd: 3 pole circuit breaker


Peter, thank you for your comment.... I see you're have not "borught
anything to the table" so I'll ignore what you said.

I actually just called Airpax applications. He said you CANNOT gang
them together as he wants to do. They are NOT designed for that
rating. They said they can design them to be used for 375 AT THE
FACTORY, but they are not rated. for that voltage. Its a safety issue.
It has to do about how the magnetic breaker works. Its not designed to
work at a higher voltage.

I don't HAVE to explain the physics principals of how it doesn't work.
Its not that it won't work, Its that it won't work as its supposed to.
You might get false trip (not too bad). But you may also get a long
trip, and that has the potential to cause an arc, and burn out the
controller/motor. Also when it does break the circuit, its a potential
safety issue. This discussion was never the how's and whys of it
working, but rather if he should do it.

Don't believe me. I've got a degree, and so do the 5 people i've gone
out of my way to talk to. At first because I wanted a second opinion.
I did this because I don't think its safe, nor is it advised by anyone
other than a few people online. I don't want to prove you wrong. I
don't want your car having a fire under the hood because you decided
to throw it together and wait until it DOESN'T work.

And why should I prove why it shouldn't work....no one has yet
explained to me why it CAN WORK! and how it IS SAFE? How about that?
I've proved more than enough, asked engineers and gotten AIRPAX to
back me.

I'm only asking that you reconsider, Call Airpax and ask their
applications engineer. I talked to George Evans at 410-221-9432. Ask
him why it won't work or why you shouldn't do it.

regards,
Travis

On 11/2/07, Peter Gabrielsson <[email protected]<mailto:p[email protected]>> wrote:
> You have yet to explain why it wouldn't work?
>
>
Travis Gintz <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> > Go for it, but It won't bring the voltage rating to 375V. Reread my
> > email from a PE, he reviewed this with two other EE's. Its come up
> > before with customers trying to shortcut and cut costs. The contacts
> > MUST be rated for the voltage you need. Because the voltage potential
> > from one side of the contacts to the other is still 375V.
> >
> > I saw how you posted on several groups the same question. Which is Why
> > I said something. Reread what he said:
> >
> > "...You can not series the two poles together to
> > get a higher voltage rating nor can you series contacts on a thermomag
> > breaker for higher current rating. In the controls world you can
> > series two contacts on a relay for higher current but you can not do
> > that on a thermo mag circuit breaker."
> >
> > Why don't you call the manufacturer and ask. I'd believe them and a
> > couple of degreed PE's over some "self proclaimed professionals" on
> > the internet anyway.... Why ask for advice if you aren'g going to
> > follow it? It should only take 1% doubt to sway you. If you ignore it
> > just because its cheaper...fine.
> >
> > I can see you're not being too safe....An engineer should ask himself,
> > is it safe? And if anyone raised a question as to whether it was safe
> > or not, they would immediately stop and verify from a manufacturer/NEC
> > code/UL etc. You are ignoring one person that is telling you that its
> > not safe. Where does that leave your project? Would you fly a plane
> > where they did this with the breaker going to the fuel pumps? HELL NO!
> >
> > Others may have it working because the Contacts are derated a certain
> > percentage. What if its on the hairy edge... now you've got a
> > potential ticking time bomb.
> >
> > Good luck,
> > Travis Gintz
> > BSEE Virginia Tech 2004
> > Leviton Manufacturing and Lighting Control Systems
> >
> >
> > On 11/2/07, Tehben Dean <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> > > I decided to get some of these:
> > >
> > > Airpax Part Number JLM-1-1RLS5 30140-250
> > > 125 Volt DC Circuit Breaker
> > > Trip Amps 313
> > > Hold Amps 250
> > > Delay 53 Amps
> > >
> > > and put three of them in series with all the handles ganged together
> > > so if one trips all three are opened.
> > > This will bring the voltage rating to 375v.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Tehben
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 11/2/07, Travis Gintz <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> > > > I forwarded this to my PE (professional engineer) buddy, who
> > > > specializes in High voltage and Power. This was his reply. I'd tend to
> > > > be on his side with this....
> > > >
> > > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > > From: Mark
> > > > Date: Nov 2, 2007 10:04 AM
> > > > Subject: RE: 3 pole circuit breaker
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Travis you are correct. You can not series the two poles together to
> > > > get a higher voltage rating nor can you series contacts on a thermomag
> > > > breaker for higher current rating. In the controls world you can
> > > > series two contacts on a relay for higher current but you can not do
> > > > that on a thermo mag circuit breaker.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Tehben Dean" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
> > > > > To: "EV mail list" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:22 PM
> > > > > Subject: [EVDL] 3 pole circuit breaker
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > I am going to have a 312v (more when fully charged) system that is
> > > > > > capable of drawing around 300amps.
> > > > > > So my question is can I use a Square D I-Line thermo-magnetic 3 pole
> > > >
> > > > > > circuit breaker rated 350amps at 600v AC or 250v DC and wire it up
> > > > > > so that 2 of the poles are in series to increase it's rated voltage?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Tehben
> > > > > > '90 Toyota 4x4 Pickup
> > > > > > 'hElix EV'
> > > > > > Website: www.helixev.com<http://www.helixev.com/>
> > > > > > evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225<http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225>
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > For subscription options, see
> > > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev<http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev>
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Tehben
> > > '90 Toyota 4x4 Pickup
> > > 'hElix EV'
> > > Website: www.helixev.com<http://www.helixev.com/>
> > > evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225<http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > For subscription options, see
> > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev<http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev>
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Travis Gintz
> > 1986 Honda VFR AC conversion
> > Http://blog.evfr.net/<http://blog.evfr.net/>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev<http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev>
> >
>
>
>
> --
> www.electric-lemon.com<http://www.electric-lemon.com/>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev<http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev>
>


--
Travis Gintz
1986 Honda VFR AC conversion
Http://blog.evfr.net/<http://blog.evfr.net/>

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev<http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev>
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
BECAUSE WHEN THE BREAKER OPENS UNDER LOAD THE VOLTAGE WILL BE HIGH ENOUGH WITH THE AVAILABLE CURRENT TO ARC FLASH ACROSS THE CONTACTS AND EITHER WELD THEM CLOSED OR TURN THE CONTACTS AND BREAKER IN PLASMA oops just found the caps lock on did not shout just goofed
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Gabrielsson<mailto:p[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fwd: 3 pole circuit breaker


Gee, you did a really poor job ignoring me there. Perhaps the way I
stated my question could have been better,but, I was just wondering
why it wouldn't work?


Travis Gintz <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> Peter, thank you for your comment.... I see you're have not "borught
> anything to the table" so I'll ignore what you said.
>
> I actually just called Airpax applications. He said you CANNOT gang
> them together as he wants to do. They are NOT designed for that
> rating. They said they can design them to be used for 375 AT THE
> FACTORY, but they are not rated. for that voltage. Its a safety issue.
> It has to do about how the magnetic breaker works. Its not designed to
> work at a higher voltage.
>
> I don't HAVE to explain the physics principals of how it doesn't work.
> Its not that it won't work, Its that it won't work as its supposed to.
> You might get false trip (not too bad). But you may also get a long
> trip, and that has the potential to cause an arc, and burn out the
> controller/motor. Also when it does break the circuit, its a potential
> safety issue. This discussion was never the how's and whys of it
> working, but rather if he should do it.
>
> Don't believe me. I've got a degree, and so do the 5 people i've gone
> out of my way to talk to. At first because I wanted a second opinion.
> I did this because I don't think its safe, nor is it advised by anyone
> other than a few people online. I don't want to prove you wrong. I
> don't want your car having a fire under the hood because you decided
> to throw it together and wait until it DOESN'T work.
>
> And why should I prove why it shouldn't work....no one has yet
> explained to me why it CAN WORK! and how it IS SAFE? How about that?
> I've proved more than enough, asked engineers and gotten AIRPAX to
> back me.
>
> I'm only asking that you reconsider, Call Airpax and ask their
> applications engineer. I talked to George Evans at 410-221-9432. Ask
> him why it won't work or why you shouldn't do it.
>
> regards,
> Travis
>
>
> On 11/2/07, Peter Gabrielsson <[email protected]<mailto:p[email protected]>> wrote:
> > You have yet to explain why it wouldn't work?
> >
> > On Nov 2, 2007 11:35 AM, Travis Gintz <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> > > Go for it, but It won't bring the voltage rating to 375V. Reread my
> > > email from a PE, he reviewed this with two other EE's. Its come up
> > > before with customers trying to shortcut and cut costs. The contacts
> > > MUST be rated for the voltage you need. Because the voltage potential
> > > from one side of the contacts to the other is still 375V.
> > >
> > > I saw how you posted on several groups the same question. Which is Why
> > > I said something. Reread what he said:
> > >
> > > "...You can not series the two poles together to
> > > get a higher voltage rating nor can you series contacts on a thermomag
> > > breaker for higher current rating. In the controls world you can
> > > series two contacts on a relay for higher current but you can not do
> > > that on a thermo mag circuit breaker."
> > >
> > > Why don't you call the manufacturer and ask. I'd believe them and a
> > > couple of degreed PE's over some "self proclaimed professionals" on
> > > the internet anyway.... Why ask for advice if you aren'g going to
> > > follow it? It should only take 1% doubt to sway you. If you ignore it
> > > just because its cheaper...fine.
> > >
> > > I can see you're not being too safe....An engineer should ask himself,
> > > is it safe? And if anyone raised a question as to whether it was safe
> > > or not, they would immediately stop and verify from a manufacturer/NEC
> > > code/UL etc. You are ignoring one person that is telling you that its
> > > not safe. Where does that leave your project? Would you fly a plane
> > > where they did this with the breaker going to the fuel pumps? HELL NO!
> > >
> > > Others may have it working because the Contacts are derated a certain
> > > percentage. What if its on the hairy edge... now you've got a
> > > potential ticking time bomb.
> > >
> > > Good luck,
> > > Travis Gintz
> > > BSEE Virginia Tech 2004
> > > Leviton Manufacturing and Lighting Control Systems
> > >
> > >
> > > On 11/2/07, Tehben Dean <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> > > > I decided to get some of these:
> > > >
> > > > Airpax Part Number JLM-1-1RLS5 30140-250
> > > > 125 Volt DC Circuit Breaker
> > > > Trip Amps 313
> > > > Hold Amps 250
> > > > Delay 53 Amps
> > > >
> > > > and put three of them in series with all the handles ganged together
> > > > so if one trips all three are opened.
> > > > This will bring the voltage rating to 375v.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Tehben
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 11/2/07, Travis Gintz <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> > > > > I forwarded this to my PE (professional engineer) buddy, who
> > > > > specializes in High voltage and Power. This was his reply. I'd tend to
> > > > > be on his side with this....
> > > > >
> > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > > > From: Mark
> > > > > Date: Nov 2, 2007 10:04 AM
> > > > > Subject: RE: 3 pole circuit breaker
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Travis you are correct. You can not series the two poles together to
> > > > > get a higher voltage rating nor can you series contacts on a thermomag
> > > > > breaker for higher current rating. In the controls world you can
> > > > > series two contacts on a relay for higher current but you can not do
> > > > > that on a thermo mag circuit breaker.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Tehben Dean" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
> > > > > > To: "EV mail list" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:22 PM
> > > > > > Subject: [EVDL] 3 pole circuit breaker
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I am going to have a 312v (more when fully charged) system that is
> > > > > > > capable of drawing around 300amps.
> > > > > > > So my question is can I use a Square D I-Line thermo-magnetic 3 pole
> > > > >
> > > > > > > circuit breaker rated 350amps at 600v AC or 250v DC and wire it up
> > > > > > > so that 2 of the poles are in series to increase it's rated voltage?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Tehben
> > > > > > > '90 Toyota 4x4 Pickup
> > > > > > > 'hElix EV'
> > > > > > > Website: www.helixev.com<http://www.helixev.com/>
> > > > > > > evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225<http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225>
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > For subscription options, see
> > > > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev<http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Tehben
> > > > '90 Toyota 4x4 Pickup
> > > > 'hElix EV'
> > > > Website: www.helixev.com<http://www.helixev.com/>
> > > > evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225<http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225>
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > For subscription options, see
> > > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev<http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev>
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Travis Gintz
> > > 1986 Honda VFR AC conversion
> > > Http://blog.evfr.net/<http://blog.evfr.net/>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> > > For subscription options, see
> > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev<http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev>
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > www.electric-lemon.com<http://www.electric-lemon.com/>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev<http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev>
> >
>
>
> --
> Travis Gintz
> 1986 Honda VFR AC conversion
> Http://blog.evfr.net/<http://blog.evfr.net/>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev<http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev>
>



--
www.electric-lemon.com<http://www.electric-lemon.com/>

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev<http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev>
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I have a hard copy of a Merlin Gerin (same family as SquareD) breaker
catalogue which I knew had a page towards the back about using multi-pole
MCBs in DC applications...

This appears to be the PDF (but I'm on a slow dial-up connection right now
and it's 1am and I'm off to bed, so can't double-check...)

http://www.schneider-electric.co.uk/internet/pws/literature.nsf/luAllByID/JP
AE-58GKVQ/$file/Merlin_Gerin_Circuit_breaker_application_guide_full_MGD5032.
pdf

Hope this helps!

Matt

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top