David Dymaxion wrote:
> Note, this does not necessarily mean the Volt will be a commercial
success -- $40+k is alot for any car.
No, it's an enormous amount to pay for a *Chevy*. It's
middle-of-the-road pricing for a Lexus, Audi, Mercedes or BMW.
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From:
[email protected] [mailto:
[email protected]] On
Behalf Of David Dymaxion
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 1:08 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM and the Volt...
I don't get all the negative emotion -- it's like folks are trying to
punish GM
for the next best thing since the Tesla. (Just watch, I'll get a bunch
of "glass
is half empty" comments now. 8^) ) It is price competitive with a
plug-in Prius.
People want to punish GM for the past sin of crushing EV-1s -- but at
least they
built them! What did the rest of the auto world give us? 200 portly
Honda EV+;
RAV4EV (an SUV!); Chrysler MiniVan; Ford Truck... Yet folks choose to
demonize
the one car company that made a true electric car, and now is offering
the only
OEM plug in hybrid, that can usefully drive purely electric.
Why is it lying to say the gas motor is a range extender? You start the
car, you
go 40 electric miles, and then the gas motor starts if you need to go
further --
sounds like range extension by any reasonable definition to me. On
average
likely something like 90% of the trips will be electric, and for 10% of
the
trips the gas motor will start and extend the range. Who cares what the
exact
coupling to the wheels is? (BTW direct is more efficient, do you really
want
series for some crazy reason?) Doesn't the end result count, where many
buyers
will replace 90% of their gas powered trips with electricity?
I think it was smart to make the Volt have its own name and model.
Hybrids that
were just mods to existing cars have sold poorly. This way it can have
its own
cachet, like an Escalade or Camaro, and is priced competitively with
those cars.
Note, this does not necessarily mean the Volt will be a commercial
success --
$40+k is alot for any car.
________________________________
<quoted>
There are several questions surrounding the Volt that have nothing to do
with "the problem" or "the engineering":
1. Do you trust GM, crusher of the EV1?
2. Will people buy a $41k compact Chevy?
GM did *not* do themselves any favors on point #1 with their continued
insistence that the Volt was an electric car, that the ICE was merely a
range extender and then it comes out after the fact that it does indeed
power the wheels. More efficient or no, better engineering decision or
not, patent pending issues aside, it does not engender trust that GM
will do what they've said they would do. And they did this knowing full
well that this backlash would be coming from the EVthusiasts. Given
that, do YOU trust GM?
When's the last time anybody paid that much for a Chevy? For a
compact-class car? For reference, you've got the Ford Fiesta ICE in
that size class for US$14k base price with pretty decent MPG numbers
(30/40 city/highway, though my 91 Camry does 27-33 mixed).
IF GM can get past their checkered history (EV1, bailout), lack of
truthfulness and poor marketing/product line-up decisions... but even
then I don't think that they'll be able to get the volume up given that
they've already torque'd off many of their choir -- their early adopters
and promoters, the EVthusiasts by not being up-front and continuing to
insist that it's an electric car. Call it something else, make up a new
word for it, but if you put gas in it, it ain't a pure EV and we know it
and it DOES matter. Don't pretend to be something you're not, define
your own class!
I attended HybridFest 2008 of which GM was a major sponsor. The GM
Spokesperson delivered a speech and asked how many people were driving
Prii, how many Insights. Only one person there was driving a domestic
(Ford -- she lived in upstate New York so needed the SUV/4WD). The
spokesperson claimed that soon those numbers would shift in GM's favor.
What vehicles did they bring in '08, when everybody wanted to see even a
non-working Volt? Hybridized Yukons and Denali's.
[email protected]#$#! Afterwards I
congratulated her on delivering to a tough crowd, her response was "We
all like hybrids, right?" I didn't have an answer then, but it felt
wrong. I have an answer now: "No, we like high MPGe vehicles and
truthful companies"
SO with the twisting of words -- the MPG ratings I've seen instead of
MPGe, stretching the truth that it's an electric vehicle when it's a
strong electric hybrid -- I don't believe that GM is past the "Who
Killed the Electric Car" stage. That'll take at least 5-10 years to
determine, and they're not outta the gate yet with the Volt and still
making basic mistakes on trust and marketing. THAT is what is most
likely to kill the Volt.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20101104/fb793a0a/a
ttachment.html
_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to
[email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to
[email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev