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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I heard a commercial on a major radio station for the GM Volt. It was described as an electric car, with a pure electric range up to 40 miles. A little disclaimer said something like "Range depends on initial state of charge." I loved it, your mileage may vary! The ad also said something about advanced batteries. Anyway, I thought it was neat it was promoted as an electric car, rather than a hybrid.






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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
There is no product to advertize. They don't even have fully functional
prototypes. They have no way of knowing for sure whether they can deliver
the claimed range and performance characteristics. The current concept car
can barely move on and off a showroom floor. The car isn't due for another
3 years. The only purpose these spots serve is to greenwash the company's
image to try to defeat the stricter CAF=C9 standards.

-----Original Message-----
I heard a commercial on a major radio station for the GM Volt. It was
described as an electric car, with a pure electric range up to 40 miles. A
little disclaimer said something like "Range depends on initial state of
charge." I loved it, your mileage may vary! The ad also said something about
advanced batteries. Anyway, I thought it was neat it was promoted as an
electric car, rather than a hybrid.


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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
>There is no product to advertize. They don't even have fully functional
>prototypes. They have no way of knowing for sure whether they can deliver
>the claimed range and performance characteristics. The current concept car

Likely, they can predict the range and performance characteristics very
well. Before an IC engine has been even prototyped, its performance,
emissions levels, required control algorithms, and even much of its
calibration can be done with physical modelling. It's not rocket science.
Commonly done in the automotive industry. Durability testing and emissions
calibration work really serve to validate the models. In many regards,
an EV is easier to model, as motor models are much more mature from
the servo design field - and just plain easier to do.

>can barely move on and off a showroom floor. The car isn't due for another
>3 years. The only purpose these spots serve is to greenwash the company's
>image to try to defeat the stricter CAF=C9 standards.

Possible, possibly to try to undo some of the damage that WKEC did, but
maybe,
just maybe, they want to judge the public's reaction. After all, if you
spend
billions on tooling up for it, and only make a few million back, not only is
the program a failure, but in GM's position, they are bankrupt. They can't
afford a miscue like they did with the ZR1 Corvette, or, for that matter,
the EV-1.

-Dale

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
They didn't spend billions on tooling up on the EV-1, they used the
Reatta line to make the EV-1s. That line only needed reconfiguration
to put out EV-1s, and it was designed from the start to be a pull
line, so it would have been relatively cheap to handle.

So, the EV-1 wasn't a miscue. People would have bought, bought and
bought those puppies, and they would have at least broken even on the
costs. If they had had ANY vision, they would have now been 10 years
ahead of everyone else in the EV race, and Tesla might not EVen exist.

Instead, they shut down that line, and the day after bought the
Hummer. So we know what their execs were thinking. And it sure wasn't
anything remotely resembling 'vision'. What have we gotten for that?
Rising oil prices and a dollar weaker than Popeye without his spinach.
Gee thanks GM. Thanks so much. Dear Bob Lutz is STILL saying the EV-1
was the 'biggest PR disaster.... though we did it for the right LEGAL
reasons' What a chump.

I don't care if the GM Volt is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
I'll never buy one, nor anything else from them. Too little, too late.
I'd rather mortgage my house and buy a Tesla Roadster. Or wait until
they come out with the 30k version. Or make my own. Or buy one from
Ampmobile in that new arrangement they have with LiONEV.

Anything but "General Murders", as I've heard said a few times around here. :)

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Video: http://jalopnik.com/cars/ad-watch/chevy-gives-kids-a-hummer-with-the-volt-electric-car-304593.php

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
--
So, the EV-1 wasn't a miscue. People would have bought, bought and bought
those puppies, and they would have at least broken even on the costs. If
they had had ANY vision, they would have now been 10 years ahead of everyone
else in the EV race, and Tesla might not EVen exist.
--

Objectively speaking, the 2-seater design wasn't going to go that far, just
like the Honda Insight (which looks almost identical to the EV-1) didn't
sell much. Once they switched to NIMH they should have dusted off their
4-passenger design.



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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
This is why I designed the DF www.detalidon.com . It's only a chassis but at least it's a start.


Arak Leatham - Web and Desktop Systems Developer







Estimating, Point of Sale, Tracking, Reporting Applications> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 11:31:54 -0400> From: [email protected]> To: [email protected]> Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM EV Commercial Heard> > They didn't spend billions on tooling up on the EV-1, they used the> Reatta line to make the EV-1s. That line only needed reconfiguration> to put out EV-1s, and it was designed from the start to be a pull> line, so it would have been relatively cheap to handle.> > So, the EV-1 wasn't a miscue. People would have bought, bought and> bought those puppies, and they would have at least broken even on the> costs. If they had had ANY vision, they would have now been 10 years> ahead of everyone else in the EV race, and Tesla might not EVen exist.> > Instead, they shut down that line, and the day after bought the> Hummer. So we know what their execs were thinking. And it sure wasn't> anything remotely resembling 'vision'. What have we gotten for that?> Rising oil prices and a dollar weaker th!
an Popeye without his spinach.> Gee thanks GM. Thanks so much. Dear Bob Lutz is STILL saying the EV-1> was the 'biggest PR disaster.... though we did it for the right LEGAL> reasons' What a chump.> > I don't care if the GM Volt is the greatest thing since sliced bread.> I'll never buy one, nor anything else from them. Too little, too late.> I'd rather mortgage my house and buy a Tesla Roadster. Or wait until> they come out with the 30k version. Or make my own. Or buy one from> Ampmobile in that new arrangement they have with LiONEV.> > Anything but "General Murders", as I've heard said a few times around here. :)> > _______________________________________________> For subscription options, see> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
>> There is no product to advertize. They don't even have fully
>> functional prototypes. They have no way of knowing for sure
>> whether they can deliver the claimed range and performance
>> characteristics.

Dale Ulan wrote:
> Likely, they can predict the range and performance characteristics
> very well.

You don't need to "predict" the performance of vaporware. You just make
it up as you go along!

GM is using a tried-and-true marketing trick with the Volt. They are
deathly afraid of Edsel syndrome (building something that won't sell).
So, they mock up a concept car, and haul it to all the car shows and
media events to see what people say. They will keep changing the claims,
and see what effect it has on the comments they get. It is far easier to
add or remove features that are nothing but talk or words on a page than
it is to actually build them and get them to work!

Once they have a clear picture of whether the idea actually interests
people, and what features it must have to sell, THEN they go off and try
to design a car that meets them. Of course, the resulting car won't
resemble the theoretical show car very much. But by then people will
have forgotten the original claims anyway.

--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
This isn't unique to the auto industry. I see the same thing at the
Consumer Electronics show in Vegas, the Housewares show in Chicago, even the
international Electronics show in Hong Kong. A large percentage of the
newest products you see there are mockups or prototypes, which they may or
may not admit. A lot of that stuff you see in AliBaba won't ever finish
development if they don't get a large order. If they don't see enough
interest, production never happens. If they hear a lot of "if it could do
this then I'd buy", then specs and features change. It's a fine line
between fraud and market research. Some companies I work with will not go
to production unless they bag a Walmart deal and see orders for 10,000
pieces, some will speculate a bit more. But competition has driven many
companies to take fewer risks, if they can.

Marty

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 8:44 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM EV Commercial Heard


>>> There is no product to advertize. They don't even have fully
>>> functional prototypes. They have no way of knowing for sure
>>> whether they can deliver the claimed range and performance
>>> characteristics.
>
> Dale Ulan wrote:
>> Likely, they can predict the range and performance characteristics
>> very well.
>
> You don't need to "predict" the performance of vaporware. You just make
> it up as you go along!
>
> GM is using a tried-and-true marketing trick with the Volt. They are
> deathly afraid of Edsel syndrome (building something that won't sell).
> So, they mock up a concept car, and haul it to all the car shows and
> media events to see what people say. They will keep changing the claims,
> and see what effect it has on the comments they get. It is far easier to
> add or remove features that are nothing but talk or words on a page than
> it is to actually build them and get them to work!
>
> Once they have a clear picture of whether the idea actually interests
> people, and what features it must have to sell, THEN they go off and try
> to design a car that meets them. Of course, the resulting car won't
> resemble the theoretical show car very much. But by then people will
> have forgotten the original claims anyway.
>
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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