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Each Friday evening I show my EV's at a local "Cruise In" See www.coppercitycruisers.org<http://www.coppercitycruisers.org/> & http://public.orb.com/cccruisers<http://public.orb.com/cccruisers>

Last evening I had an interesting conversation with a gentleman who worked many years ago at a Florida Saturn Dealership in the parts department. Says he had the opportunity to drive a GM EV1 He enjoyed driving it. Interesting comment he made. Claims he was paid a bonus for selling additional parts, also claimed he lost money (no bonus) as there were no parts required to replace on the GM EV1 when it came in for service. At most all the EV1 required when serviced was minor brake or alignment work...non of the typical parts required to keep an ICE engine running Definitely, a loss to the aftermarket parts supplier...EV's just do not require the maintenance that a typical ICE requires! I love it! From the perspective of a car owner-the basic reason why more EV's should be on the road! From the perspective of the parts supplier, a definite reason to keep EV's from being mass produced...............

Don B. Davidson III
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
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Re: [EVDL] GM EV1

Don Davidson wrote:

> At most all the EV1 required when serviced was minor brake or
> alignment work...non of the typical parts required to keep an ICE
> engine running Definitely, a loss to the aftermarket parts
> supplier...EV's just do not require the maintenance that a typical ICE
> requires!

Well, no, but if the EV1 had had the time, perhaps some very expensive
parts would have begun to fail. The EV1 was chock full of expensive
parts.

And sometimes the automakers actually do start using parts that don't
need to be replaced as often. Such as LED tail lights.

> I love it! From the perspective of a car owner-the basic reason why
> more EV's should be on the road! From the perspective of the parts
> supplier, a definite reason to keep EV's from being mass
> produced...............

Or, a definite reason to get a bunch of them on the roads and keep them
running until the battery pack needs to be replaced

Others (such as "EV Basher" Mark Brueggeman) have pointed out that EV
conversions still have maintenance costs. He notes that the increased
load of batteries shortens the life of the chassis and brakes. Acid
from lead-acid batteries corrodes things. There's (usually) still a
transmission, and it's subjected to loads it wasn't designed for. Etc,
etc.

Anyway, at the risk of veering off-topic, it looks to me like GM wanted
the EV1 to be full of expensive, proprietary parts, so the buyers would
be locked into using GM for service and support. I think they expected
to make a lot of money on the EV1.

I agree with you - EVs have fewer systems, and they generally require
less maintenance than the corresponding system in an ICE. But it would
be a mistake to ignore the costs that definitely do exist, or to claim
that the long-term costs are less than that associated with a modern
ICE in advance of actually running the numbers.

Has someone run the numbers? Say, compared a converted late-model
Honda to the identical car in ICE trim, over a span of a few years (or
miles)? If you run a cost-per-mile comparison, the EV wouldn't look so
good, I bet. They see so few miles by comparison to their ICE
brethren.

How exactly would you go about making a fair comparison?

>
> Don B. Davidson III
> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
http://www.gdunge.com/

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Re: [EVDL] GM EV1

You're absolutely right that we shouldn't underestimate the costs
associated with running an EV.

That being said, I think you're underestimating the costs saved vs. an
ICE car

You're not ever having to replace: Exhaust system parts or engine
parts. No oil changes meaning no motor oil, nor oil filter changes. No
fuel issues. No fuel system replacements or filter changes. Brakes are
only an issue on cars without regenerative braking and it's likely
that full on production EVs will all have regen. And you won't have to
have bi annual tune ups.

This all represents a HUGE amount of the burden of owning an ICE. I
completely agree.. in a standard conversion you will be replacing
brakes and shock components more often.. HOW much more often depends
on who designed the thing. If you use robust components it should be
at a mild premium over ICE cars/trucks.

Controllers are the next big thing. They usually come with warranties
and can just be swapped out whole hog. Unless you've wedged it into a
wheel well, they are usually easily removed and replaced.

Motors are the next thing. They almost never go bad, ever (except at
the races . If one did, though, it could be pretty pricey. About as
much as a small ICE, new.

Battery replacement is the last big thing. This is a mixed bag, but it
usually goes cheaper = more often. And hopefully the conversion was
designed so you don't have to tear out too much to do it

Transmission! Yeah, this is my sticking point too. That will have the
same maint woes of any transmission. EVs are normally manual though,
and they tend to be pretty tough.. I have over 100,000 miles on my
Golf VW trannie and never had an issue with it.

Bits and bobs can go too, but again.. contactors can be oversized
enough so they will almost never fail, and so on. High power
electrical components have become extremely reliable and since there
are almost no moving parts, that makes everything even more robust.

I don't think you -can- make a true comparison, though, until there is
an actual playing field on which to do it, with a few years of
maintenance reports from EVs to show cost differentials.

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Re: [EVDL] GM EV1