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Discussion Starter #1
HELLO


http://www.texomaev.com-a.googlepages.com/mitsubishieclipseconversion

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Discussion Starter #2
HELLO

I'm trying to duplicate what Michael did here:

http://www.texomaev.com-a.googlepages.com/mitsubishieclipseconversion

Using the G-29 Aircraft Generator, and no flywheel...a
direct connection to the transmission.

I have a 1204 upgraded controller from logi
48-72volts, and I ran 48volts to the armature through
the controller, and separate 24volts directly to the
field.

I used 8 awg wire for the 24 volt pack, and used a
RY115 relay, which I thought was 30 amp, but it blew,
so I removed a relay and connected through a 30 amp
fuse.

I then started the car, and I really did see that much
difference.

I guess all have to try a 72 volt pack, but I never
found those improved coil springs for the geo
metro...so I really didn't want to add another 200 lbs
in the rear.

thanks in advance,

Michael Golub

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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Mike, I purchased from JCWhitney a set of helper
springs that bolt to the rear axle of a front wheel
drive vehicle. They have them rated from 1000lbs to
2000lbs. I purchased the 2000lbs version and so far
so good. I've got 13 golf cart batteries in the back
of the Eclipse.

If you aren't getting enough torque with the 24volt
field pack, you might try 36vdc. I seem to have
plenty of torque at 24vdc, but am running a 78vdc pack
for the armature.


--- mike golub <[email protected]> wrote:

> HELLO
>
> I'm trying to duplicate what Michael did here:
>
>
http://www.texomaev.com-a.googlepages.com/mitsubishieclipseconversion
>
> Using the G-29 Aircraft Generator, and no
> flywheel...a
> direct connection to the transmission.
>
> I have a 1204 upgraded controller from logi
> 48-72volts, and I ran 48volts to the armature
> through
> the controller, and separate 24volts directly to the
> field.
>
> I used 8 awg wire for the 24 volt pack, and used a
> RY115 relay, which I thought was 30 amp, but it
> blew,
> so I removed a relay and connected through a 30 amp
> fuse.
>
> I then started the car, and I really did see that
> much
> difference.
>
> I guess all have to try a 72 volt pack, but I never
> found those improved coil springs for the geo
> metro...so I really didn't want to add another 200
> lbs
> in the rear.
>
> thanks in advance,
>
> Michael Golub
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 

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Registered
Joined
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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Here's a link to the coil helper springs at JCWhitney:

http://www.jcwhitney.com/wcsstore/jcwhitney/images/imagecache/G_15887G_CL_1.jpg

Hopefully the link will work.


--- Michael Barkley <[email protected]> wrote:

> Mike, I purchased from JCWhitney a set of helper
> springs that bolt to the rear axle of a front wheel
> drive vehicle. They have them rated from 1000lbs to
> 2000lbs. I purchased the 2000lbs version and so far
> so good. I've got 13 golf cart batteries in the
> back
> of the Eclipse.
>
> If you aren't getting enough torque with the 24volt
> field pack, you might try 36vdc. I seem to have
> plenty of torque at 24vdc, but am running a 78vdc
> pack
> for the armature.
>
>
> --- mike golub <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > HELLO
> >
> > I'm trying to duplicate what Michael did here:
> >
> >
>
http://www.texomaev.com-a.googlepages.com/mitsubishieclipseconversion
> >
> > Using the G-29 Aircraft Generator, and no
> > flywheel...a
> > direct connection to the transmission.
> >
> > I have a 1204 upgraded controller from logi
> > 48-72volts, and I ran 48volts to the armature
> > through
> > the controller, and separate 24volts directly to
> the
> > field.
> >
> > I used 8 awg wire for the 24 volt pack, and used a
> > RY115 relay, which I thought was 30 amp, but it
> > blew,
> > so I removed a relay and connected through a 30
> amp
> > fuse.
> >
> > I then started the car, and I really did see that
> > much
> > difference.
> >
> > I guess all have to try a 72 volt pack, but I
> never
> > found those improved coil springs for the geo
> > metro...so I really didn't want to add another 200
> > lbs
> > in the rear.
> >
> > thanks in advance,
> >
> > Michael Golub
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
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http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 

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Joined
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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Do these replace the rear springs I have?

Or is these an additional set?


http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/Pr-p_Product.CATENTRY_ID:2005887/c-10101/Nty-1/p-2005887/Ntx-mode+matchallpartial/N-10101/tf-Browse/s-10101/Ntk-AllTextSearchGroup?Ntt=helper+springs

--- Michael Barkley <[email protected]> wrote:

> Here's a link to the coil helper springs at
> JCWhitney:
>
>
http://www.jcwhitney.com/wcsstore/jcwhitney/images/imagecache/G_15887G_CL_1.jpg
>
> Hopefully the link will work.
>
>
>
--- Michael Barkley <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Mike, I purchased from JCWhitney a set of helper
> > springs that bolt to the rear axle of a front
> wheel
> > drive vehicle. They have them rated from 1000lbs
> to
> > 2000lbs. I purchased the 2000lbs version and so
> far
> > so good. I've got 13 golf cart batteries in the
> > back
> > of the Eclipse.
> >
> > If you aren't getting enough torque with the
> 24volt
> > field pack, you might try 36vdc. I seem to have
> > plenty of torque at 24vdc, but am running a 78vdc
> > pack
> > for the armature.
> >
> >
> > --- mike golub <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > HELLO
> > >
> > > I'm trying to duplicate what Michael did here:
> > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www.texomaev.com-a.googlepages.com/mitsubishieclipseconversion
> > >
> > > Using the G-29 Aircraft Generator, and no
> > > flywheel...a
> > > direct connection to the transmission.
> > >
> > > I have a 1204 upgraded controller from logi
> > > 48-72volts, and I ran 48volts to the armature
> > > through
> > > the controller, and separate 24volts directly to
> > the
> > > field.
> > >
> > > I used 8 awg wire for the 24 volt pack, and used
> a
> > > RY115 relay, which I thought was 30 amp, but it
> > > blew,
> > > so I removed a relay and connected through a 30
> > amp
> > > fuse.
> > >
> > > I then started the car, and I really did see
> that
> > > much
> > > difference.
> > >
> > > I guess all have to try a 72 volt pack, but I
> > never
> > > found those improved coil springs for the geo
> > > metro...so I really didn't want to add another
> 200
> > > lbs
> > > in the rear.
> > >
> > > thanks in advance,
> > >
> > > Michael Golub
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > For subscription options, see
> > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 

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Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
They don't replace the original springs, just add them
to the axle just beind the others, as close to the
wheel you can. I believe a gentleman did post a
website earlier in the list of a company that sells
replacement coil springs to your weight specification.
I believe these addon springs I used are less
expensive though.

I'm working on a tight no money budget with my
project, so I've had to keep cost to a minimum. Still
hoping someday, I'll walk outside, and find that a 1K
zilla happened to be left on my doorstep to be adopted
by my EV....... LOL





--- mike golub <[email protected]> wrote:

> Do these replace the rear springs I have?
>
> Or is these an additional set?
>
>
>
http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/Pr-p_Product.CATENTRY_ID:2005887/c-10101/Nty-1/p-2005887/Ntx-mode+matchallpartial/N-10101/tf-Browse/s-10101/Ntk-AllTextSearchGroup?Ntt=helper+springs
>
> --- Michael Barkley <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Here's a link to the coil helper springs at
> > JCWhitney:
> >
> >
>
http://www.jcwhitney.com/wcsstore/jcwhitney/images/imagecache/G_15887G_CL_1.jpg
> >
> > Hopefully the link will work.
> >
> >
> > --- Michael Barkley <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > Mike, I purchased from JCWhitney a set of helper
> > > springs that bolt to the rear axle of a front
> > wheel
> > > drive vehicle. They have them rated from
> 1000lbs
> > to
> > > 2000lbs. I purchased the 2000lbs version and so
> > far
> > > so good. I've got 13 golf cart batteries in the
> > > back
> > > of the Eclipse.
> > >
> > > If you aren't getting enough torque with the
> > 24volt
> > > field pack, you might try 36vdc. I seem to have
> > > plenty of torque at 24vdc, but am running a
> 78vdc
> > > pack
> > > for the armature.
> > >
> > >
> > >
--- mike golub <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > HELLO
> > > >
> > > > I'm trying to duplicate what Michael did here:
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www.texomaev.com-a.googlepages.com/mitsubishieclipseconversion
> > > >
> > > > Using the G-29 Aircraft Generator, and no
> > > > flywheel...a
> > > > direct connection to the transmission.
> > > >
> > > > I have a 1204 upgraded controller from logi
> > > > 48-72volts, and I ran 48volts to the armature
> > > > through
> > > > the controller, and separate 24volts directly
> to
> > > the
> > > > field.
> > > >
> > > > I used 8 awg wire for the 24 volt pack, and
> used
> > a
> > > > RY115 relay, which I thought was 30 amp, but
> it
> > > > blew,
> > > > so I removed a relay and connected through a
> 30
> > > amp
> > > > fuse.
> > > >
> > > > I then started the car, and I really did see
> > that
> > > > much
> > > > difference.
> > > >
> > > > I guess all have to try a 72 volt pack, but I
> > > never
> > > > found those improved coil springs for the geo
> > > > metro...so I really didn't want to add another
> > 200
> > > > lbs
> > > > in the rear.
> > > >
> > > > thanks in advance,
> > > >
> > > > Michael Golub
> > > >
> > > >
> _______________________________________________
> > > > For subscription options, see
> > > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > For subscription options, see
> > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
not sure with they'll fit in the Geo.


--- Michael Barkley <[email protected]> wrote:

> They don't replace the original springs, just add
> them
> to the axle just beind the others, as close to the
> wheel you can. I believe a gentleman did post a
> website earlier in the list of a company that sells
> replacement coil springs to your weight
> specification.
> I believe these addon springs I used are less
> expensive though.
>
> I'm working on a tight no money budget with my
> project, so I've had to keep cost to a minimum.
> Still
> hoping someday, I'll walk outside, and find that a
> 1K
> zilla happened to be left on my doorstep to be
> adopted
> by my EV....... LOL
>
>
>
>
>
> --- mike golub <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Do these replace the rear springs I have?
> >
> > Or is these an additional set?
> >
> >
> >
>
http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/Pr-p_Product.CATENTRY_ID:2005887/c-10101/Nty-1/p-2005887/Ntx-mode+matchallpartial/N-10101/tf-Browse/s-10101/Ntk-AllTextSearchGroup?Ntt=helper+springs
> >
> >
--- Michael Barkley <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > Here's a link to the coil helper springs at
> > > JCWhitney:
> > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www.jcwhitney.com/wcsstore/jcwhitney/images/imagecache/G_15887G_CL_1.jpg
> > >
> > > Hopefully the link will work.
> > >
> > >
> > >
--- Michael Barkley <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Mike, I purchased from JCWhitney a set of
> helper
> > > > springs that bolt to the rear axle of a front
> > > wheel
> > > > drive vehicle. They have them rated from
> > 1000lbs
> > > to
> > > > 2000lbs. I purchased the 2000lbs version and
> so
> > > far
> > > > so good. I've got 13 golf cart batteries in
> the
> > > > back
> > > > of the Eclipse.
> > > >
> > > > If you aren't getting enough torque with the
> > > 24volt
> > > > field pack, you might try 36vdc. I seem to
> have
> > > > plenty of torque at 24vdc, but am running a
> > 78vdc
> > > > pack
> > > > for the armature.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- mike golub <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > HELLO
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm trying to duplicate what Michael did
> here:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www.texomaev.com-a.googlepages.com/mitsubishieclipseconversion
> > > > >
> > > > > Using the G-29 Aircraft Generator, and no
> > > > > flywheel...a
> > > > > direct connection to the transmission.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have a 1204 upgraded controller from logi
> > > > > 48-72volts, and I ran 48volts to the
> armature
> > > > > through
> > > > > the controller, and separate 24volts
> directly
> > to
> > > > the
> > > > > field.
> > > > >
> > > > > I used 8 awg wire for the 24 volt pack, and
> > used
> > > a
> > > > > RY115 relay, which I thought was 30 amp, but
> > it
> > > > > blew,
> > > > > so I removed a relay and connected through a
> > 30
> > > > amp
> > > > > fuse.
> > > > >
> > > > > I then started the car, and I really did see
> > > that
> > > > > much
> > > > > difference.
> > > > >
> > > > > I guess all have to try a 72 volt pack, but
> I
> > > > never
> > > > > found those improved coil springs for the
> geo
> > > > > metro...so I really didn't want to add
> another
> > > 200
> > > > > lbs
> > > > > in the rear.
> > > > >
> > > > > thanks in advance,
> > > > >
> > > > > Michael Golub
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > > > > For subscription options, see
> > > > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> _______________________________________________
> > > > For subscription options, see
> > > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > For subscription options, see
> > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
DO NOT USED HELPER SPRINGS.
A friend of mind used them to fix bad springs which
where just worn out to get by on the Cheap. He was
driving down the freeway and hit a rough spot and the
helper springs Shot out side-ways and blew out both
rear tires. Car was not a pretty site after wards.

There has been a several discussion of this that you
need to order custom wound springs from a specialty
shop. I discovered going to a suspension shop for hot
rods that they will measure your car up for custom
springs and get them ordered up for you. a 4x4 custom
shop might be able to help you as well.

--- mike golub <[email protected]> wrote:

> not sure with they'll fit in the Geo.
>
>
> --- Michael Barkley <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > They don't replace the original springs, just add
> > them
> > to the axle just beind the others, as close to the
> > wheel you can. I believe a gentleman did post a
> > website earlier in the list of a company that
> sells
> > replacement coil springs to your weight
> > specification.
> > I believe these addon springs I used are less
> > expensive though.
> >
> > I'm working on a tight no money budget with my
> > project, so I've had to keep cost to a minimum.
> > Still
> > hoping someday, I'll walk outside, and find that a
> > 1K
> > zilla happened to be left on my doorstep to be
> > adopted
> > by my EV....... LOL
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
--- mike golub <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > Do these replace the rear springs I have?
> > >
> > > Or is these an additional set?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/Pr-p_Product.CATENTRY_ID:2005887/c-10101/Nty-1/p-2005887/Ntx-mode+matchallpartial/N-10101/tf-Browse/s-10101/Ntk-AllTextSearchGroup?Ntt=helper+springs
> > >
> > > --- Michael Barkley <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Here's a link to the coil helper springs at
> > > > JCWhitney:
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www.jcwhitney.com/wcsstore/jcwhitney/images/imagecache/G_15887G_CL_1.jpg
> > > >
> > > > Hopefully the link will work.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- Michael Barkley <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Mike, I purchased from JCWhitney a set of
> > helper
> > > > > springs that bolt to the rear axle of a
> front
> > > > wheel
> > > > > drive vehicle. They have them rated from
> > > 1000lbs
> > > > to
> > > > > 2000lbs. I purchased the 2000lbs version
> and
> > so
> > > > far
> > > > > so good. I've got 13 golf cart batteries in
> > the
> > > > > back
> > > > > of the Eclipse.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you aren't getting enough torque with the
> > > > 24volt
> > > > > field pack, you might try 36vdc. I seem to
> > have
> > > > > plenty of torque at 24vdc, but am running a
> > > 78vdc
> > > > > pack
> > > > > for the armature.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
--- mike golub <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > HELLO
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm trying to duplicate what Michael did
> > here:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www.texomaev.com-a.googlepages.com/mitsubishieclipseconversion
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Using the G-29 Aircraft Generator, and no
> > > > > > flywheel...a
> > > > > > direct connection to the transmission.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have a 1204 upgraded controller from
> logi
> > > > > > 48-72volts, and I ran 48volts to the
> > armature
> > > > > > through
> > > > > > the controller, and separate 24volts
> > directly
> > > to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > field.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I used 8 awg wire for the 24 volt pack,
> and
> > > used
> > > > a
> > > > > > RY115 relay, which I thought was 30 amp,
> but
> > > it
> > > > > > blew,
> > > > > > so I removed a relay and connected through
> a
> > > 30
> > > > > amp
> > > > > > fuse.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I then started the car, and I really did
> see
> > > > that
> > > > > > much
> > > > > > difference.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I guess all have to try a 72 volt pack,
> but
> > I
> > > > > never
> > > > > > found those improved coil springs for the
> > geo
> > > > > > metro...so I really didn't want to add
> > another
> > > > 200
> > > > > > lbs
> > > > > > in the rear.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > thanks in advance,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Michael Golub
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > For subscription options, see
> > > > > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > > > > For subscription options, see
> > > > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> _______________________________________________
> > > > For subscription options, see
> > > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > For subscription options, see
> > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>




____________________________________________________________________________________
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
http://sims.yahoo.com/

_______________________________________________
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http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
I bet that was an experience, that you'd not want to
do again for sure (was it an EV?). Thanks for that
heads up, I'll go back and install rubber bumpers on
the top portion of the car, where the springs sit, so
the springs are restricted from side to side movement.



--- Bruce Weisenberger <[email protected]> wrote:

> DO NOT USED HELPER SPRINGS.
> A friend of mind used them to fix bad springs which
> where just worn out to get by on the Cheap. He was
> driving down the freeway and hit a rough spot and
> the
> helper springs Shot out side-ways and blew out both
> rear tires. Car was not a pretty site after wards.
>
> There has been a several discussion of this that you
> need to order custom wound springs from a specialty
> shop. I discovered going to a suspension shop for
> hot
> rods that they will measure your car up for custom
> springs and get them ordered up for you. a 4x4
> custom
> shop might be able to help you as well.
>
> --- mike golub <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > not sure with they'll fit in the Geo.
> >
> >
> > --- Michael Barkley <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > They don't replace the original springs, just
> add
> > > them
> > > to the axle just beind the others, as close to
> the
> > > wheel you can. I believe a gentleman did post a
> > > website earlier in the list of a company that
> > sells
> > > replacement coil springs to your weight
> > > specification.
> > > I believe these addon springs I used are less
> > > expensive though.
> > >
> > > I'm working on a tight no money budget with my
> > > project, so I've had to keep cost to a minimum.
> > > Still
> > > hoping someday, I'll walk outside, and find that
> a
> > > 1K
> > > zilla happened to be left on my doorstep to be
> > > adopted
> > > by my EV....... LOL
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- mike golub <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Do these replace the rear springs I have?
> > > >
> > > > Or is these an additional set?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/Pr-p_Product.CATENTRY_ID:2005887/c-10101/Nty-1/p-2005887/Ntx-mode+matchallpartial/N-10101/tf-Browse/s-10101/Ntk-AllTextSearchGroup?Ntt=helper+springs
> > > >
> > > > --- Michael Barkley <[email protected]x.xxx> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Here's a link to the coil helper springs at
> > > > > JCWhitney:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www.jcwhitney.com/wcsstore/jcwhitney/images/imagecache/G_15887G_CL_1.jpg
> > > > >
> > > > > Hopefully the link will work.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- Michael Barkley <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Mike, I purchased from JCWhitney a set of
> > > helper
> > > > > > springs that bolt to the rear axle of a
> > front
> > > > > wheel
> > > > > > drive vehicle. They have them rated from
> > > > 1000lbs
> > > > > to
> > > > > > 2000lbs. I purchased the 2000lbs version
> > and
> > > so
> > > > > far
> > > > > > so good. I've got 13 golf cart batteries
> in
> > > the
> > > > > > back
> > > > > > of the Eclipse.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you aren't getting enough torque with
> the
> > > > > 24volt
> > > > > > field pack, you might try 36vdc. I seem
> to
> > > have
> > > > > > plenty of torque at 24vdc, but am running
> a
> > > > 78vdc
> > > > > > pack
> > > > > > for the armature.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- mike golub <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > HELLO
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm trying to duplicate what Michael did
> > > here:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www.texomaev.com-a.googlepages.com/mitsubishieclipseconversion
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Using the G-29 Aircraft Generator, and
> no
> > > > > > > flywheel...a
> > > > > > > direct connection to the transmission.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have a 1204 upgraded controller from
> > logi
> > > > > > > 48-72volts, and I ran 48volts to the
> > > armature
> > > > > > > through
> > > > > > > the controller, and separate 24volts
> > > directly
> > > > to
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > field.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I used 8 awg wire for the 24 volt pack,
> > and
> > > > used
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > RY115 relay, which I thought was 30 amp,
> > but
> > > > it
> > > > > > > blew,
> > > > > > > so I removed a relay and connected
> through
> > a
> > > > 30
> > > > > > amp
> > > > > > > fuse.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I then started the car, and I really did
> > see
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > much
> > > > > > > difference.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I guess all have to try a 72 volt pack,
> > but
> > > I
> > > > > > never
> > > > > > > found those improved coil springs for
> the
> > > geo
> > > > > > > metro...so I really didn't want to add
> > > another
> > > > > 200
> > > > > > > lbs
> > > > > > > in the rear.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > thanks in advance,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Michael Golub
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > For subscription options, see
> > > > > > >
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > For subscription options, see
> > > > > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > > > > For subscription options, see
> > > > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> _______________________________________________
>
=== message truncated ===

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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 09:24:27 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>HELLO
>
>I'm trying to duplicate what Michael did here:
>
>http://www.texomaev.com-a.googlepages.com/mitsubishieclipseconversion
>
>Using the G-29 Aircraft Generator, and no flywheel...a
>direct connection to the transmission.
>
>I have a 1204 upgraded controller from logi
>48-72volts, and I ran 48volts to the armature through
>the controller, and separate 24volts directly to the
>field.
>
I have a thought for you. instead of a separate battery pack for
the field, how about a DC\DC converter?
I found a Curtis 72/96 volts nominal, that puts out 10.7 amps at 28
volts. If the amperage is high enough it could save you a lot of
space and weight.


R. M. Milliron

1981 Jet Electrica
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/702

This machine has been garaged for 17 years.
I am upgrading it and getting it running. Tabitha,
my daughter, named it, "Pikachu". It's yellow and black,
electric and contains Japanese parts, so I went with it.


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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Yes, I've thought of that, but I think it needs more
amps, but not sure.

I'll have to measure the amps.

Could just use two 12v batteries, and put them on a
separate charger.

--- "R. Matt Milliron" <[email protected]xxx> wrote:

> On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 09:24:27 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:
>
> >HELLO
> >
> >I'm trying to duplicate what Michael did here:
> >
>
>http://www.texomaev.com-a.googlepages.com/mitsubishieclipseconversion
> >
> >Using the G-29 Aircraft Generator, and no
> flywheel...a
> >direct connection to the transmission.
> >
> >I have a 1204 upgraded controller from logi
> >48-72volts, and I ran 48volts to the armature
> through
> >the controller, and separate 24volts directly to
> the
> >field.
> >
> I have a thought for you. instead of a separate
> battery pack for
> the field, how about a DC\DC converter?
> I found a Curtis 72/96 volts nominal, that puts
> out 10.7 amps at 28
> volts. If the amperage is high enough it could save
> you a lot of
> space and weight.
>
>
> R. M. Milliron
>
> 1981 Jet Electrica
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/702
>
> This machine has been garaged for 17 years.
> I am upgrading it and getting it running. Tabitha,
> my daughter, named it, "Pikachu". It's yellow and
> black,
> electric and contains Japanese parts, so I went with
> it.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Well, it works

The problem is that these free old UPS batteries are
weak. I drove 6 miles.

I'm a little concerned about downshifting. It didn't
seem it wanted to do it.

What do you do when slowing down?

thanks
--- Michael Barkley <[email protected]> wrote:

> I bet that was an experience, that you'd not want to
> do again for sure (was it an EV?). Thanks for that
> heads up, I'll go back and install rubber bumpers on
> the top portion of the car, where the springs sit,
> so
> the springs are restricted from side to side
> movement.
>
>
>
> --- Bruce Weisenberger <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > DO NOT USED HELPER SPRINGS.
> > A friend of mind used them to fix bad springs
> which
> > where just worn out to get by on the Cheap. He was
> > driving down the freeway and hit a rough spot and
> > the
> > helper springs Shot out side-ways and blew out
> both
> > rear tires. Car was not a pretty site after wards.
>
> >
> > There has been a several discussion of this that
> you
> > need to order custom wound springs from a
> specialty
> > shop. I discovered going to a suspension shop for
> > hot
> > rods that they will measure your car up for custom
> > springs and get them ordered up for you. a 4x4
> > custom
> > shop might be able to help you as well.
> >
> > --- mike golub <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > not sure with they'll fit in the Geo.
> > >
> > >
> > >
--- Michael Barkley <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > They don't replace the original springs, just
> > add
> > > > them
> > > > to the axle just beind the others, as close to
> > the
> > > > wheel you can. I believe a gentleman did post
> a
> > > > website earlier in the list of a company that
> > > sells
> > > > replacement coil springs to your weight
> > > > specification.
> > > > I believe these addon springs I used are less
> > > > expensive though.
> > > >
> > > > I'm working on a tight no money budget with my
> > > > project, so I've had to keep cost to a
> minimum.
> > > > Still
> > > > hoping someday, I'll walk outside, and find
> that
> > a
> > > > 1K
> > > > zilla happened to be left on my doorstep to be
> > > > adopted
> > > > by my EV....... LOL
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- mike golub <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Do these replace the rear springs I have?
> > > > >
> > > > > Or is these an additional set?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/Pr-p_Product.CATENTRY_ID:2005887/c-10101/Nty-1/p-2005887/Ntx-mode+matchallpartial/N-10101/tf-Browse/s-10101/Ntk-AllTextSearchGroup?Ntt=helper+springs
> > > > >
> > > > > --- Michael Barkley <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Here's a link to the coil helper springs
> at
> > > > > > JCWhitney:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www.jcwhitney.com/wcsstore/jcwhitney/images/imagecache/G_15887G_CL_1.jpg
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hopefully the link will work.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- Michael Barkley <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mike, I purchased from JCWhitney a set
> of
> > > > helper
> > > > > > > springs that bolt to the rear axle of a
> > > front
> > > > > > wheel
> > > > > > > drive vehicle. They have them rated
> from
> > > > > 1000lbs
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > 2000lbs. I purchased the 2000lbs
> version
> > > and
> > > > so
> > > > > > far
> > > > > > > so good. I've got 13 golf cart
> batteries
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > > > back
> > > > > > > of the Eclipse.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you aren't getting enough torque with
> > the
> > > > > > 24volt
> > > > > > > field pack, you might try 36vdc. I seem
> > to
> > > > have
> > > > > > > plenty of torque at 24vdc, but am
> running
> > a
> > > > > 78vdc
> > > > > > > pack
> > > > > > > for the armature.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- mike golub <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > HELLO
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'm trying to duplicate what Michael
> did
> > > > here:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www.texomaev.com-a.googlepages.com/mitsubishieclipseconversion
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Using the G-29 Aircraft Generator, and
> > no
> > > > > > > > flywheel...a
> > > > > > > > direct connection to the transmission.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have a 1204 upgraded controller from
> > > logi
> > > > > > > > 48-72volts, and I ran 48volts to the
> > > > armature
> > > > > > > > through
> > > > > > > > the controller, and separate 24volts
> > > > directly
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > field.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I used 8 awg wire for the 24 volt
> pack,
> > > and
> > > > > used
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > RY115 relay, which I thought was 30
> amp,
> > > but
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > > blew,
> > > > > > > > so I removed a relay and connected
> > through
> > > a
> > > > > 30
> > > > > > > amp
> > > > > > > > fuse.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I then started the car, and I really
> did
> > > see
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > much
> > > > > > > > difference.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I guess all have to try a 72 volt
> pack,
> > > but
>
=== message truncated ===

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Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
I haven't figured out anyway to really downshift with
the direct drive manual transmission either. I just
take it out of gear, and coast as much as possible,
and apply brakes gingerly. My EV isn't setup for any
REGEN, so I hope that taking it out of gear when
slowing down, and coasting to a stop is easier on the
controller, motor, and brakes.


--- mike golub <[email protected]> wrote:

> Well, it works
>
> The problem is that these free old UPS batteries are
> weak. I drove 6 miles.
>
> I'm a little concerned about downshifting. It didn't
> seem it wanted to do it.
>
> What do you do when slowing down?
>
> thanks
> --- Michael Barkley <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I bet that was an experience, that you'd not want
> to
> > do again for sure (was it an EV?). Thanks for
> that
> > heads up, I'll go back and install rubber bumpers
> on
> > the top portion of the car, where the springs sit,
> > so
> > the springs are restricted from side to side
> > movement.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Bruce Weisenberger <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >
> > > DO NOT USED HELPER SPRINGS.
> > > A friend of mind used them to fix bad springs
> > which
> > > where just worn out to get by on the Cheap. He
> was
> > > driving down the freeway and hit a rough spot
> and
> > > the
> > > helper springs Shot out side-ways and blew out
> > both
> > > rear tires. Car was not a pretty site after
> wards.
> >
> > >
> > > There has been a several discussion of this that
> > you
> > > need to order custom wound springs from a
> > specialty
> > > shop. I discovered going to a suspension shop
> for
> > > hot
> > > rods that they will measure your car up for
> custom
> > > springs and get them ordered up for you. a 4x4
> > > custom
> > > shop might be able to help you as well.
> > >
> > >
--- mike golub <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > not sure with they'll fit in the Geo.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- Michael Barkley <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > They don't replace the original springs,
> just
> > > add
> > > > > them
> > > > > to the axle just beind the others, as close
> to
> > > the
> > > > > wheel you can. I believe a gentleman did
> post
> > a
> > > > > website earlier in the list of a company
> that
> > > > sells
> > > > > replacement coil springs to your weight
> > > > > specification.
> > > > > I believe these addon springs I used are
> less
> > > > > expensive though.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm working on a tight no money budget with
> my
> > > > > project, so I've had to keep cost to a
> > minimum.
> > > > > Still
> > > > > hoping someday, I'll walk outside, and find
> > that
> > > a
> > > > > 1K
> > > > > zilla happened to be left on my doorstep to
> be
> > > > > adopted
> > > > > by my EV....... LOL
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
--- mike golub <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Do these replace the rear springs I have?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Or is these an additional set?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/Pr-p_Product.CATENTRY_ID:2005887/c-10101/Nty-1/p-2005887/Ntx-mode+matchallpartial/N-10101/tf-Browse/s-10101/Ntk-AllTextSearchGroup?Ntt=helper+springs
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- Michael Barkley <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Here's a link to the coil helper springs
> > at
> > > > > > > JCWhitney:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www.jcwhitney.com/wcsstore/jcwhitney/images/imagecache/G_15887G_CL_1.jpg
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hopefully the link will work.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- Michael Barkley <[email protected]>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Mike, I purchased from JCWhitney a set
> > of
> > > > > helper
> > > > > > > > springs that bolt to the rear axle of
> a
> > > > front
> > > > > > > wheel
> > > > > > > > drive vehicle. They have them rated
> > from
> > > > > > 1000lbs
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > 2000lbs. I purchased the 2000lbs
> > version
> > > > and
> > > > > so
> > > > > > > far
> > > > > > > > so good. I've got 13 golf cart
> > batteries
> > > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > back
> > > > > > > > of the Eclipse.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If you aren't getting enough torque
> with
> > > the
> > > > > > > 24volt
> > > > > > > > field pack, you might try 36vdc. I
> seem
> > > to
> > > > > have
> > > > > > > > plenty of torque at 24vdc, but am
> > running
> > > a
> > > > > > 78vdc
> > > > > > > > pack
> > > > > > > > for the armature.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- mike golub <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > HELLO
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I'm trying to duplicate what Michael
> > did
> > > > > here:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www.texomaev.com-a.googlepages.com/mitsubishieclipseconversion
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Using the G-29 Aircraft Generator,
> and
> > > no
> > > > > > > > > flywheel...a
> > > > > > > > > direct connection to the
> transmission.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I have a 1204 upgraded controller
> from
>
=== message truncated ===

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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Maybe a trip to the wrecking yard would suffice.
For example. I think the springs off of a jeep are the same diameter as
the rear springs on the 300zx, but stiffer and longer.

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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Michael Barkley wrote:
> I haven't figured out anyway to really downshift with
> the direct drive manual transmission either. I just
> take it out of gear, and coast as much as possible,
> and apply brakes gingerly.

To downshift my clutchless EVs, I'd take my foot off the accelerator so
it's coasting, shift into neutral and then into the lower gear. The
transmission's synchronizers pulled the motor speed down to match. If
there was no need to hurry, a shift took a couple seconds. If I wanted
to do it more quickly, I pushed harder on the gearshift lever so the
synchronizers pulled the speeds together faster.

This works well with some transmissions, poorly with others.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Which car are you using with clutchless?

If it doesn't work, maybe I should live it in a lower
gear...

But I need to do more testing with a better battery
bank.
--- Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:

> Michael Barkley wrote:
> > I haven't figured out anyway to really downshift
> with
> > the direct drive manual transmission either. I
> just
> > take it out of gear, and coast as much as
> possible,
> > and apply brakes gingerly.
>
> To downshift my clutchless EVs, I'd take my foot off
> the accelerator so
> it's coasting, shift into neutral and then into the
> lower gear. The
> transmission's synchronizers pulled the motor speed
> down to match. If
> there was no need to hurry, a shift took a couple
> seconds. If I wanted
> to do it more quickly, I pushed harder on the
> gearshift lever so the
> synchronizers pulled the speeds together faster.
>
> This works well with some transmissions, poorly with
> others.
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
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Discussion Starter #17
I have an '85 Geo Metro that shifts this way.

Joseph H. Strubhar

Web: www.gremcoinc.com

E-mail: [email protected]

----- Original Message -----
From: "mike golub" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Help needed with my Geo Metro


> Which car are you using with clutchless?
>
> If it doesn't work, maybe I should live it in a lower
> gear...
>
> But I need to do more testing with a better battery
> bank.
> --- Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Michael Barkley wrote:
>> > I haven't figured out anyway to really downshift
>> with
>> > the direct drive manual transmission either. I
>> just
>> > take it out of gear, and coast as much as
>> possible,
>> > and apply brakes gingerly.
>>
>> To downshift my clutchless EVs, I'd take my foot off
>> the accelerator so
>> it's coasting, shift into neutral and then into the
>> lower gear. The
>> transmission's synchronizers pulled the motor speed
>> down to match. If
>> there was no need to hurry, a shift took a couple
>> seconds. If I wanted
>> to do it more quickly, I pushed harder on the
>> gearshift lever so the
>> synchronizers pulled the speeds together faster.
>>
>> This works well with some transmissions, poorly with
>> others.
>> --
>> Ring the bells that still can ring
>> Forget the perfect offering
>> There is a crack in everything
>> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
>> --
>> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
>> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Discussion Starter #18
Hey Mike,

Michael had some problems with low starting torque. I
was able to give him help. I might be able to help
you out also, but need some more info. See inserted
comments.......


--- mike golub <[email protected]> wrote:

> HELLO
>
> I'm trying to duplicate what Michael did here:
>
>
http://www.texomaev.com-a.googlepages.com/mitsubishieclipseconversion
>
> Using the G-29 Aircraft Generator, and no
> flywheel...a
> direct connection to the transmission.
>
> I have a 1204 upgraded controller from logi
> 48-72volts, and I ran 48volts to the armature
> through
> the controller, and separate 24volts directly to the
> field.
>
> I used 8 awg wire for the 24 volt pack, and used a
> RY115 relay, which I thought was 30 amp, but it
> blew,
> so I removed a relay and connected through a 30 amp
> fuse.

The shunt field should be a lot less than 30 amps.
Take the resistance and let me know.

>
> I then started the car, and I really did see that
> much
> difference.

Did or did not? What is your problem? Sorry if I
missed that in a previous post. What is it doing and
what is it not doing?

>
> I guess all have to try a 72 volt pack, but I never
> found those improved coil springs for the geo
> metro...so I really didn't want to add another 200
> lbs
> in the rear.

The higher pack voltage will help at higher speeds.
If you're working at lower speeds, like acceleration
from a stop, you should be in current limit and higher
pack voltage on the armature shouldn't play a role.

>
> thanks in advance,
>
> Michael Golub

Give me some more details and I might offer some help.

Jeff M


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Discussion Starter #19
A trick with early Rabbits when converting to EV was to double up the rear
struts, using two stock struts per side.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator

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Discussion Starter #20
I measure 2.5 Ohms in the field, so using 24 volts is
pretty far from 30 amps. Not sure why it blew the
relay, maybe the initial surge kills it, and I need to
use a contactor?

> The shunt field should be a lot less than 30 amps.
> Take the resistance and let me know.



--- Jeff Major <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> Hey Mike,
>
> Michael had some problems with low starting torque.
> I
> was able to give him help. I might be able to help
> you out also, but need some more info. See inserted
> comments.......
>
>
> --- mike golub <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > HELLO
> >
> > I'm trying to duplicate what Michael did here:
> >
> >
>
http://www.texomaev.com-a.googlepages.com/mitsubishieclipseconversion
> >
> > Using the G-29 Aircraft Generator, and no
> > flywheel...a
> > direct connection to the transmission.
> >
> > I have a 1204 upgraded controller from logi
> > 48-72volts, and I ran 48volts to the armature
> > through
> > the controller, and separate 24volts directly to
> the
> > field.
> >
> > I used 8 awg wire for the 24 volt pack, and used a
> > RY115 relay, which I thought was 30 amp, but it
> > blew,
> > so I removed a relay and connected through a 30
> amp
> > fuse.
>
> The shunt field should be a lot less than 30 amps.
> Take the resistance and let me know.
>
> >
> > I then started the car, and I really did see that
> > much
> > difference.
>
> Did or did not? What is your problem? Sorry if I
> missed that in a previous post. What is it doing
> and
> what is it not doing?
>
> >
> > I guess all have to try a 72 volt pack, but I
> never
> > found those improved coil springs for the geo
> > metro...so I really didn't want to add another 200
> > lbs
> > in the rear.
>
> The higher pack voltage will help at higher speeds.
> If you're working at lower speeds, like acceleration
> from a stop, you should be in current limit and
> higher
> pack voltage on the armature shouldn't play a role.
>
> >
> > thanks in advance,
> >
> > Michael Golub
>
> Give me some more details and I might offer some
> help.
>
> Jeff M
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
> Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search
>
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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