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Discussion Starter #1
im looking for the best way and cheapest way to build an EV
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Discussion Starter #2
Its a good motor. I own 3 of them. Drive 1 every day. The other 2 are going in a dragster.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On
> Behalf Of mrdoo6820
> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 12:20 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [EVDL] how good is the warp 9 motor?
>
>
>
> im looking for the best way and cheapest way to build an EV
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/how-good-is-the-warp-9-motor--tf4382726s25542.html#a12493738
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Discussion Starter #3
Hello Mike,

I now have been running a Warp 9 for two years now, as a temporary
replacement while my GE 11 is in maintenance. The Warp 9 I have is rated
for 192 volts at 199 amps continuous running.

This 199 amps is the motor amps, not the battery amps while the motor volts
is about 50 volts. Its in a 6800 lb EV which the motor should normally be a
Warp 11, but because I have a 19.5:1 1st gear and a 13.5:1 2nd gear, I can
keep the motor ampere between 100 and 200 amps at speeds up to 50 mph.

You can go over the 199 motor amp limit to 300 amps for about a minute and
higher than 300 amps for seconds.

It comes with silver graphite brushes that are pre-curve. My Warp 9 made a
lot of brush clicking noise, until the commentator and brushes was broke in
using 12 volts and using a commentator stone that you can get from a motor
shop. Make sure you turn it the same direction as it would be in a vehicle.

Roland


----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Willmon" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 2:46 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] how good is the warp 9 motor?


> Its a good motor. I own 3 of them. Drive 1 every day. The other 2 are
> going in a dragster.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On
> > Behalf Of mrdoo6820
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 12:20 AM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: [EVDL] how good is the warp 9 motor?
> >
> >
> >
> > im looking for the best way and cheapest way to build an EV
> > --
> > View this message in context:
> > http://www.nabble.com/how-good-is-the-warp-9-motor--tf4382726s25542.html#a12493738
> > Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> > Nabble.com.
> >
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Discussion Starter #5
In a message dated 9/5/2007 4:45:54 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:


Cheapest way -- aircraft generator as the motor, or an 8" series DC if
you have to. Get a $500 VW rabbit for the donor (cheap, light, no
power steering or power brakes to deal with, readily available motor
adaptors) Keep to under 96 volts and 500A controller to cut costs.
Use a car alternator instead of a separate DC-DC. Stick a bunch of
the cheapest golf cart batteries you can find there. It'll be an
actual working electric car.... but probably won't impress many of
your friends.

--------------------------------------------------------------

cheapest way is to hit the fork lift junk yards, you can find motors for
$25.00, the aircraft starter/gen is to big and heavy, but if you want regen
that's another option.

Jim L




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Discussion Starter #6
Does anyone know of a source for forklift motor in the Dallas area?


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 12:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] how good is the warp 9 motor?

In a message dated 9/5/2007 4:45:54 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:


Cheapest way -- aircraft generator as the motor, or an 8" series DC if
you have to. Get a $500 VW rabbit for the donor (cheap, light, no
power steering or power brakes to deal with, readily available motor
adaptors) Keep to under 96 volts and 500A controller to cut costs.
Use a car alternator instead of a separate DC-DC. Stick a bunch of
the cheapest golf cart batteries you can find there. It'll be an
actual working electric car.... but probably won't impress many of
your friends.

--------------------------------------------------------------

cheapest way is to hit the fork lift junk yards, you can find motors for
$25.00, the aircraft starter/gen is to big and heavy, but if you want regen

that's another option.

Jim L




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at
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Discussion Starter #7
Hopefully you will get a motor source in your area from this E-mail
list.

I needed some used forklift parts many years back and I just visited the
largest forklift business in my area. They handled sales, rental, and
maintenance, and had a large bone yard of broken and older units in the
back. After seeing what they had, and that they would sell used parts,
I returned with a better idea of my needs and purchased some parts.

Check the yellow pages and see what you have in Dallas. Hopefully they
are located close together if you need to visit two or more businesses
before you find someone willing to work with you. You may find a good
source of parts, advice, repairs in your visits. Calling around is
quicker, but I have found that a visit in person sometimes will seal the
deal, when on the phone you just may get "we don't sell no stinking used
parts around here".

Alan


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 10:31 AM
To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [EVDL] how good is the warp 9 motor?

Does anyone know of a source for forklift motor in the Dallas area?


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf
Of [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 12:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] how good is the warp 9 motor?

In a message dated 9/5/2007 4:45:54 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:


Cheapest way -- aircraft generator as the motor, or an 8" series DC if
you have to. Get a $500 VW rabbit for the donor (cheap, light, no
power steering or power brakes to deal with, readily available motor
adaptors) Keep to under 96 volts and 500A controller to cut costs.
Use a car alternator instead of a separate DC-DC. Stick a bunch of
the cheapest golf cart batteries you can find there. It'll be an
actual working electric car.... but probably won't impress many of
your friends.

--------------------------------------------------------------

cheapest way is to hit the fork lift junk yards, you can find motors for

$25.00, the aircraft starter/gen is to big and heavy, but if you want
regen

that's another option.

Jim L




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AOL
at
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Discussion Starter #8
In a message dated 9/6/2007 10:32:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:


Does anyone know of a source for forklift motor in the Dallas area?

--------------------------------------------------

yellow pages, talk to someone that has a fork, ask who their service co. is,
then call them to find where all the dead ones go...................ask
Waylands builder, he's a fork person.
Come on kids, get creative, get out from behind your computers and get busy
and do some real leg work.


Just the old guy







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Discussion Starter #9
On 5 Sep 2007 at 1:20, mrdoo6820 wrote:

> im looking for the best way and cheapest way to build an EV

You want cheap? Don't build it. Buy somebody else's used conversion.

Best is another story entirely. That's pretty subjective and I can't answer
that for you.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Discussion Starter #15
--- damon henry <[email protected]> wrote:

> It always seems like the other guys are the
> fortunate ones. Keep your chin up, at least once in
> your life it will be your turn.
> As far as finding cheap motors it's mostly a myth
> and often only a part of the story gets told.

Hey Damon

There are great deals to be had out there using
forklift motors and getting not only a great motor
core but also a great deal. But as Damon states that
can be hit or miss with to many factors to weigh in
on. In general the older the forklift model the
cheaper the core usually is. Happening across one of
those older cores, and in good shape is a lucky find
8^)

> I have been with Jim Husted and watched him motor
> scrounging. He's a pro and can spot what is good
> and what is junk, then he can bring it back to his
> shop and fix anything that is wrong. He has the
> tools, the know how, and a working knowledge of the
> cost of replacement parts.

Well that's what a 1/4 century will do for ya, lol.

> EVen at this, it is hard
> for him to compete pricewise with a brand new warp
> motor. In order to do so, he likely has to donate
> some of the labor, but it breaks up the monotony of
> his usual work and he is passionate about the EV
> cause. I suspect if he factored in all the
> transportation, time, parts, and overhead and
> charged accordingly that his used motors would cost
> just as much as a brand new one.

I wouldn't go that far but will conceed that there are
new motors out there that give me a ceiling value.

> In fact you can take a look at what he did for me as
> an example, although perhaps one of the more
> extreme...
> I paid $200 for a motor core that Jim helped me pick
> out. He probably added $150 worth of free parts
> that he had handy, plus spent 2 full days in his
> shop supervising my 16 year old son and I as we
> worked together to rebuild and modify the motor for
> use in our Datsun truck. He did not do any of his
> own work during these two days, he just took the
> days off and helped us.

Well when I spouted out at you I was hoping you lived
in Maine or something and would never take me up on it
8^P

> So my story is that I got my motor for $200 dollars
> from a forklift junk yard, but in reality if you add
> up the total costs of Jim's parts and time, plus a
> two day trip for my son and I to Redmond Oregon, my
> little motor probably cost more than a Warp 9. Of
> course we all got a lot more than a motor out of the
> deal, but like I said there is usually an untold
> part of the story.

Well if we dig deeper into this story Mike is the one
who built it and there was some additional time
involved there. Add to this that there was chitchat
and visiting going on (your motor bares the resulting
distraction scars, LMAO)

In general though you're right in that if I can break
up the time and do a motor when not pressed for lift
motor time then I can treat people a little kinder 8^)

> Your not likely to get quite as lucky as me, but if
> you want a sure fire way to get more than what you
> are paying for on a motor contact Jim Husted. Also
> realize that not every EV needs an 8 or a 9 inch
> motor. Many have been built using 6 and 7 inch
> motors which are much easier to come by at lower
> prices. If you want to know the difference between
> using a 6 inch motor and a 9 inch motor when you
> talk to Jim ask him to give you his wheelbarrow
> analogy :)

Don't be knocking on my wheelbarrow stories ;^)

Honestly, EVeryone just screams about motor ETA and
just crawl out of their skin till it ships. I'm
guessing at least half sit for a year before running,
LMAO!!! so many of you are a little farther than you
might first think. With that said be patient and do
your homework and go out and beat your local bushes
for your perfect core deal, it is there to be found
I'm all but sure of it 8^)

A great, but real hit or miss place to find motors are
at metal scrap yards. My shop neighbor Dan bought 3
motors from our local place. He got an MKB 12 brush
Prestolite, a 9" Prestolite pump motor (all but a
direct copy of the FB1 motor)(needs a new shaft and
drive plate) and another 13" 72 volt Allis Chalmer
motor like the beast I did for Wayland. All for, get
this.... 7 dollars, something like ten cents a pound,
LMAO. This was a bit ago before metal prices jumped
but still. Dan got lucky, but he kept going back and
found these hiden in the rubble. I weasled the big
boy from him fixing one of the small ones for him,
yeah I know I'm EVil, lol.

Anyway going back to your motor, 200.00 plus a shaft,
bearings and brushes isn't anywhere near the cost of a
new motor even having me do one for ya.

FWIW as for this threads title, the Warp brand of
motors are well built motors and drive lots of
vehicles around for those not lucky enough to have
motors handed to them or don't live on the legendary
island of motors 8^)

Had fun, hope this helps

Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric



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Discussion Starter #16
On Thu, 6 Sep 2007 22:51:53 +0000, you wrote:

>
>It always seems like the other guys are the fortunate ones. Keep your chin up, at least once in your life it will be your turn.
>
>As far as finding cheap motors it's mostly a myth and often only a part of the story gets told.
>
>I have been with Jim Husted and watched him motor scrounging. He's a pro and can spot what is good and what is junk, then he can bring it back to his shop and fix anything that is wrong. He has the tools, the know how, and a working knowledge of the cost of replacement parts. Even at this, it is hard for him to compete pricewise with a brand new warp motor. In order to do so, he likely has to donate some of the labor, but it breaks up the monotony of his usual work and he is passionate about the EV cause. I suspect if he factored in all the transportation, time, parts, and overhead and charged accordingly that his used motors would cost just as much as a brand new one.

I agree. But Jim's work is well worth the price.
>
>In fact you can take a look at what he did for me as an example, although perhaps one of the more extreme...
>
I don't think this is extreme. I think this is normal for Jim. My
motor had a short to ground. I took it to a local shop to save some
money. (Sarcastic HA!) All he did was keep it for 2 weeks and paint
it, red! Just a trained monkey. I still had a short and I am out 320
dollars. Right there 1/3 the price of a new motor. I sent it to Jim.
60 more dollars for transport. He made it possible for me to pay him
out. I believe that I am being charged at most half of what he
could/should have. His time and materials Initially, came out of his
pocket. Without his help I would still be setting on a DOA motor. My
final price, with all things accounted for, was approximately 2/3 the
cost of a new motor. Never send it to the local shop, you are not
getting away cheap.
I do not have a new motor. However, I do have a custom, better
than new, motor. Jim checked it out fully. Undid the monkeys
mistakes. Corrected two manufacturing glitches. Upgraded my brushes.
Advanced my timing. Replaced the bearings. Cleaned, reassembled and
painted it, correctly. You cannot get Joe Blow Electric to do this
kind of work. If they even know how to? I think it is well worth it
to send a motor to Jim. Even a new motor can benefit from Jim's
expertise!
Check my EVDL site it's purdy!

R. M. Milliron

1981 Jet Electrica
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/702

This machine has been garaged for 17 years.
I am upgrading it and getting it running. Tabitha,
my daughter, named it, "Pikachu". It's yellow and black,
electric and contains Japanese parts, so I went with it.


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Discussion Starter #17
Ben wrote:
> I understand battery costs, and I've certainly seen some high price
> tags on controllers. But if I can get a $1500 part for $150, that's a
> good 1st step.

Everyone likes a bargain. And in the EV world, you are looking for parts
that most people don't want, so some great deals can be found. The
challenge is to learn enough so you can tell the difference between the
real gold and fool's gold.

Forklift motors are commonly used, because they have low value on the
surplus market. A factory wants a *reliable* forklift; they won't waste
money on something that "might work". But a hobbyist can use a motor
that "needs some work". The parts and skills needed to fix or upgrade it
aren't all that difficult to find or hard to learn. It's certainly a lot
easier and cheaper than rebuilding an automobile engine!

Another common option are surplus aircraft generators. They are fairly
cheap (I paid $300 for one), and you can find them in the surplus
catalogs. They are light and can provide powerful regenerative braking,
but they are only suitable for very light cars, have rather low
efficiency, and it's hard to couple to the shaft.

Come to think of it, www.surpluscenter.com has a motor (item# 10-2120,
$200) that we discussed here a few months ago that is promising. They
say "2hp 24v" but that is absurd for a 150 lbs motor. This is a 9" motor
and could easily produce over 10hp at 96v for an hour or more. It's the
best deal I know of at the moment.

> Over time I would hopefully find a bargain on a controller

The best bargain controller is a home-made contactor controller. They
are easy to build, and the contactors can be scrounged up used or surplus.

> I imagine, in the end, my nearly finished EV will sit awhile while
> I save up for batteries.

Batteries are tricky to buy used. The odds are very good that you will
get "taken" and get junk. But if you're willing to learn and do a lot of
your own testing, it is possible to assemble a usable pack on a budget.

You need to find batteries that you can TEST before buying. Places that
service golf carts will often have "take-outs" for good prices, that
were removed from a used cart and replaced so they could sell it with
new batteries, or because they had one or two bad ones and have too few
good ones to put in another cart, etc. You may also find batteries from
someone that automatically replaces them every couple years whether they
need it or not, just to be sure they have good ones.

--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

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Discussion Starter #19
On 8 Sep 2007 at 9:18, Ben wrote:

> What do you think of item # 10-1899-A (2.7HP 36v Prestolite).
> The only thing is, I don't think it could be pushed as hard - only a
> 54lb motor.

IIRC, that pretty well describes the motors used in the early Citicars.
They were barely able to survive running a 1400 lb vehicle at 35mph on flat
ground without overheating. Later Citicars and Comuta-cars used a 6hp rated
GE motor weighing 65lb, and that motor still had trouble with hills. I
should point out though that the C-cars had no multispeed transmission.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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