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Discussion Starter #1
G'day All

Helping a bloke with a Datsun ute conversion (1977 1200).

We've a 9" ex-forklift (hydraulics) motor for him, and are going to
fabricate a new flywheel by welding a disk to a taperlock centre.

When I did mine, I went and scrounged a piece of 5/8 material, that gave
me plenty to skim off both sides (but I needed the thickness to be able
to put he steps in to emulate the Honda flywheel).

His Datsun flywheel has no steps, until it reaches the centre recess.
He's got some 10mm (3/8") plate that could be used for the new flywheel,
but will that be thick enough?

Thanks

Regards

[Technik] James

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Discussion Starter #2
James Massey wrote:
>
> Helping a bloke with a Datsun ute conversion (1977 1200).
>
> We've a 9" ex-forklift (hydraulics) motor for him, and are going to
> fabricate a new flywheel by welding a disk to a taperlock centre.
> ...
>
> His Datsun flywheel has no steps, until it reaches the centre recess.
> He's got some 10mm (3/8") plate that could be used for the new
> flywheel,
> but will that be thick enough?
> ...
>
> [Technik] James
>


Yes. I used a piece of 6mm (quarter inch) mild steel plate on mine.
When you consider how little work it'll be doing compared to its
original spec, it will be fine.

(Why weld it if you can bolt it?)

Don't want to teach you to suck eggs here but unless you plan to turn
down a reference shoulder on the hub and a matching one on the
flywheel for concentricity and *then* weld it up, you need to be
careful how you go about welding the one to the other and I suggest
the following approach...

Tack weld the plate on the hub, mount it in the lathe chuck (using the
TLH to grip it - not the flywheel - and check the hub is dead on its
axis and running true) and get the flywheel running true by knocking
the plate about a bit with a hammer (GENTLY). If it's only a few
thou' out then don't bother fiddling round just carry on welding.
Then weld it up with runs of weld no more than 10mm or so at a time
and each one nearly diametrically opposite the last (to minimize
movement of the 2 pieces relative to each other from the heating and
cooling of the welds). When you have finished, mount it in the lathe
again (again via the TLH - again check the TLH is running true first)
and skim the clutch side and the periphery of the flywheel for max
balance. You probably won't need to worry about balancing beyond that
as the weight is so much less than the original flywheel.

To get the pressure plate centered on the flywheel, you might think
about using the original flywheel mounted in the lathe chuck with
pressure plate attached but spaced out 2mm from the flywheel with
washers. Turn down the outside edge of the pressure plate to give a
reference diameter. Then turn a VERY shallow (less than a mm) lip on
the outside of the new flywheel such that the pressure plate JUST sits
inside it - with absolutely NO PLAY - and then the pressure plate and
flywheel will be nicely concentric. Bolt the 2 together by drilling
through the original pressure plate bolt holes into the flywheel - no
need for the dowels. You might want to use bolts with a minimal head
on them ideally dome heads as I get a bit of a siren effect on my
clutch above 3krpm which I think is caused by the bolts heads whipping
past the only hole in the bell housing. Smoother dome headed bolts
shouldn't cause so much air disruption inside the bell housing. I
have a few pics of my set up here... http://www.winlow.co.uk/wychwood.co.uk/EV_Conversion_-_Part_5.html

I hope you aren't planning to put a monster motor/controller in there
as the stock pressure plate won't take the torque - you'd have to up-
rate it with a racing clutch - more clamping effect of the driven
plate. My Belktronix 800A controller on an Netgain Impulse 9" will
slip my stock clutch a bit at peak torque but it got contaminated with
engine oil a while back so I'm not sure if it were a new disc it'd
still do it. Even so I think 800A is about its limit. It is a fairly
weeny clutch mind - it was driven by a 1300cc petrol engine originally.

Regards, Martin Winlow
Herts, UK
http://www.evalbum.com/2092
www.winlow.co.uk



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Discussion Starter #3
G'day Martin, Dennis, All

On 13/10/2010 8:02 PM, Martin WINLOW wrote:
>
>
James Massey wrote:
>>
>> Helping a bloke with a Datsun ute conversion (1977 1200).
>>
>> We've a 9" ex-forklift (hydraulics) motor for him, and are going to
>> fabricate a new flywheel by welding a disk to a taperlock centre.
>> ...
>>
>> His Datsun flywheel has no steps, until it reaches the centre recess.
>> He's got some 10mm (3/8") plate that could be used for the new
>> flywheel, but will that be thick enough?
>
> Yes. I used a piece of 6mm (quarter inch) mild steel plate on mine.
> When you consider how little work it'll be doing compared to its
> original spec, it will be fine.
>
> (Why weld it if you can bolt it?)
>
> Don't want to teach you to suck eggs here but unless you plan to turn
> down a reference shoulder on the hub

Well, the weld-in taperlock hub comes with a shoulder already on it, and
is too small to bolt to, so the plan is to turn a centre hole that is a
neat fit, hold it nice and tight (in the big vice) and solidly tack it,
then weld all the way around.

I welded in the one in my Honda, and that all went nicely and came up
without vibration (with the clutch fully assembled onto it) so I'm
comfortable going that way.

Nice to know you're doing OK with 6mm, we can go ahead with the 10mm
plate he's already got.

> I hope you aren't planning to put a monster motor/controller in there
> as the stock pressure plate won't take the torque

Well that's the other thing, a DIY, roll-your-own controller, target is
500A at up to 96V, so monster... um, depends on WHICH monster, more
Frankensteins' than Godzilla.

And to answer Dennis, because the controller will be of modest power
levels (at least to start with) he's likely to be changing gears a bit,
so a fully-functional clutch is the way we're going.

Thanks

Regards

James

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Discussion Starter #4
Since you said fully functional clutch it should be thick enough to not warp under pressure from the throwing bearing

Are you using a stock pressure plate or a performance one?

How are the bearings in the motor?

Can they handle the side load?

Sent from my iPhone

Martin WINLOW <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> On 13 Oct 2010, at 08:17, James Massey wrote:
>>
>> Helping a bloke with a Datsun ute conversion (1977 1200).
>>
>> We've a 9" ex-forklift (hydraulics) motor for him, and are going to
>> fabricate a new flywheel by welding a disk to a taperlock centre.
>> ...
>>
>> His Datsun flywheel has no steps, until it reaches the centre recess.
>> He's got some 10mm (3/8") plate that could be used for the new
>> flywheel,
>> but will that be thick enough?
>> ...
>>
>> [Technik] James
>>
>
>
> Yes. I used a piece of 6mm (quarter inch) mild steel plate on mine.
> When you consider how little work it'll be doing compared to its
> original spec, it will be fine.
>
> (Why weld it if you can bolt it?)
>
> Don't want to teach you to suck eggs here but unless you plan to turn
> down a reference shoulder on the hub and a matching one on the
> flywheel for concentricity and *then* weld it up, you need to be
> careful how you go about welding the one to the other and I suggest
> the following approach...
>
> Tack weld the plate on the hub, mount it in the lathe chuck (using the
> TLH to grip it - not the flywheel - and check the hub is dead on its
> axis and running true) and get the flywheel running true by knocking
> the plate about a bit with a hammer (GENTLY). If it's only a few
> thou' out then don't bother fiddling round just carry on welding.
> Then weld it up with runs of weld no more than 10mm or so at a time
> and each one nearly diametrically opposite the last (to minimize
> movement of the 2 pieces relative to each other from the heating and
> cooling of the welds). When you have finished, mount it in the lathe
> again (again via the TLH - again check the TLH is running true first)
> and skim the clutch side and the periphery of the flywheel for max
> balance. You probably won't need to worry about balancing beyond that
> as the weight is so much less than the original flywheel.
>
> To get the pressure plate centered on the flywheel, you might think
> about using the original flywheel mounted in the lathe chuck with
> pressure plate attached but spaced out 2mm from the flywheel with
> washers. Turn down the outside edge of the pressure plate to give a
> reference diameter. Then turn a VERY shallow (less than a mm) lip on
> the outside of the new flywheel such that the pressure plate JUST sits
> inside it - with absolutely NO PLAY - and then the pressure plate and
> flywheel will be nicely concentric. Bolt the 2 together by drilling
> through the original pressure plate bolt holes into the flywheel - no
> need for the dowels. You might want to use bolts with a minimal head
> on them ideally dome heads as I get a bit of a siren effect on my
> clutch above 3krpm which I think is caused by the bolts heads whipping
> past the only hole in the bell housing. Smoother dome headed bolts
> shouldn't cause so much air disruption inside the bell housing. I
> have a few pics of my set up here... http://www.winlow.co.uk/wychwood.co.uk/EV_Conversion_-_Part_5.html
>
> I hope you aren't planning to put a monster motor/controller in there
> as the stock pressure plate won't take the torque - you'd have to up-
> rate it with a racing clutch - more clamping effect of the driven
> plate. My Belktronix 800A controller on an Netgain Impulse 9" will
> slip my stock clutch a bit at peak torque but it got contaminated with
> engine oil a while back so I'm not sure if it were a new disc it'd
> still do it. Even so I think 800A is about its limit. It is a fairly
> weeny clutch mind - it was driven by a 1300cc petrol engine originally.
>
> Regards, Martin Winlow
> Herts, UK
> http://www.evalbum.com/2092
> www.winlow.co.uk
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Discussion Starter #5
I would not make a flywheel thinner but if you insist ask an automotive
machine shop, they would know better than us. If you are looking to lose
weight I would spend money on an aluminum racing flywheel.

>How are the bearings in the motor?

>Can they handle the side load?


I think you mean end load.
Mark Grasser


>Sent from my iPhone

Martin WINLOW <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> On 13 Oct 2010, at 08:17, James Massey wrote:
>>
>> Helping a bloke with a Datsun ute conversion (1977 1200).
>>
>> We've a 9" ex-forklift (hydraulics) motor for him, and are going to
>> fabricate a new flywheel by welding a disk to a taperlock centre.
>> ...
>>
>> His Datsun flywheel has no steps, until it reaches the centre recess.
>> He's got some 10mm (3/8") plate that could be used for the new
>> flywheel,
>> but will that be thick enough?
>> ...
>>
>> [Technik] James
>>
>
>
> Yes. I used a piece of 6mm (quarter inch) mild steel plate on mine.
> When you consider how little work it'll be doing compared to its
> original spec, it will be fine.
>
> (Why weld it if you can bolt it?)
>
> Don't want to teach you to suck eggs here but unless you plan to turn
> down a reference shoulder on the hub and a matching one on the
> flywheel for concentricity and *then* weld it up, you need to be
> careful how you go about welding the one to the other and I suggest
> the following approach...
>
> Tack weld the plate on the hub, mount it in the lathe chuck (using the
> TLH to grip it - not the flywheel - and check the hub is dead on its
> axis and running true) and get the flywheel running true by knocking
> the plate about a bit with a hammer (GENTLY). If it's only a few
> thou' out then don't bother fiddling round just carry on welding.
> Then weld it up with runs of weld no more than 10mm or so at a time
> and each one nearly diametrically opposite the last (to minimize
> movement of the 2 pieces relative to each other from the heating and
> cooling of the welds). When you have finished, mount it in the lathe
> again (again via the TLH - again check the TLH is running true first)
> and skim the clutch side and the periphery of the flywheel for max
> balance. You probably won't need to worry about balancing beyond that
> as the weight is so much less than the original flywheel.
>
> To get the pressure plate centered on the flywheel, you might think
> about using the original flywheel mounted in the lathe chuck with
> pressure plate attached but spaced out 2mm from the flywheel with
> washers. Turn down the outside edge of the pressure plate to give a
> reference diameter. Then turn a VERY shallow (less than a mm) lip on
> the outside of the new flywheel such that the pressure plate JUST sits
> inside it - with absolutely NO PLAY - and then the pressure plate and
> flywheel will be nicely concentric. Bolt the 2 together by drilling
> through the original pressure plate bolt holes into the flywheel - no
> need for the dowels. You might want to use bolts with a minimal head
> on them ideally dome heads as I get a bit of a siren effect on my
> clutch above 3krpm which I think is caused by the bolts heads whipping
> past the only hole in the bell housing. Smoother dome headed bolts
> shouldn't cause so much air disruption inside the bell housing. I
> have a few pics of my set up here...
http://www.winlow.co.uk/wychwood.co.uk/EV_Conversion_-_Part_5.html
>
> I hope you aren't planning to put a monster motor/controller in there
> as the stock pressure plate won't take the torque - you'd have to up-
> rate it with a racing clutch - more clamping effect of the driven
> plate. My Belktronix 800A controller on an Netgain Impulse 9" will
> slip my stock clutch a bit at peak torque but it got contaminated with
> engine oil a while back so I'm not sure if it were a new disc it'd
> still do it. Even so I think 800A is about its limit. It is a fairly
> weeny clutch mind - it was driven by a 1300cc petrol engine originally.
>
> Regards, Martin Winlow
> Herts, UK
> http://www.evalbum.com/2092
> www.winlow.co.uk
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Discussion Starter #6
The 3/8 inch thick plate should work. It is best to use a cold roll chrome
moly steel plate or a forge flywheel to start with. The center step in some
flywheels are use to center the crank flange. Some use a steel pin between
the bolt holes to center the flywheel.

My flywheel in the center was 1/2 inch thick with a centering pin, so the
flywheel was mill down to 1/2 inch on the back and another 1/16 of a inch on
the face. The ring gear was remove and turn down the ring gear supporting
lip.

This was done to balance the flywheel that was design for a external balance
engine.

Roland



James Massey wrote:

Helping a bloke with a Datsun ute conversion (1977 1200). We've a 9"
ex-forklift (hydraulics) motor for him, and are going to fabricate a new
flywheel by welding a disk to a taperlock centre.
...
His Datsun flywheel has no steps, until it reaches the centre recess. He's
got some 10mm (3/8") plate that could be used for the new flywheel, but will
that be thick enough?
...
[Technik] James

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Discussion Starter #7
If its standard mild steel you can always heat treat it to harden it.
Although you don't slip the clutch to get rolling in an EV, so there
should be minimal wear anyways.


Roland Wiench wrote:

>
> The 3/8 inch thick plate should work. It is best to use a cold roll
> chrome
> moly steel plate or a forge flywheel to start with. The center step
> in some
> flywheels are use to center the crank flange. Some use a steel pin
> between
> the bolt holes to center the flywheel.
>
> My flywheel in the center was 1/2 inch thick with a centering pin,
> so the
> flywheel was mill down to 1/2 inch on the back and another 1/16 of a
> inch on
> the face. The ring gear was remove and turn down the ring gear
> supporting
> lip.
>
> This was done to balance the flywheel that was design for a external
> balance
> engine.
>
> Roland
>
>
>
> On 13 Oct 2010, at 08:17, James Massey wrote:
>
> Helping a bloke with a Datsun ute conversion (1977 1200). We've a 9"
> ex-forklift (hydraulics) motor for him, and are going to fabricate a
> new
> flywheel by welding a disk to a taperlock centre.
> ...
> His Datsun flywheel has no steps, until it reaches the centre
> recess. He's
> got some 10mm (3/8") plate that could be used for the new flywheel,
> but will
> that be thick enough?
> ...
> [Technik] James
>
> _______________________________________________
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Roger Heuckeroth
Advanced Carbon Systems
304 Blue Mountain Road
Saugerties, NY 12477
www.advancedcarbonsystems.com
Phone: 845-247-9089
Toll Free: 866-834-5674
Fax: 845-247-0441
[email protected]



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Discussion Starter #8
Your idea to scribe the flywheel to locate the pressure plate(PP) bolt holes
and locating dowels probably won't locate the PP accurately enough. Martin's
idea to concentrically machine the PP's OD flange (if it isn't already
machined so) to fit a step machined in the flywheel is a better option. BTW,
his idea to accurately locate the adapter plate between the motor and the
trany also has a lot of merit (see his blog). People seem to forget or
gloss over this important detail and then wonder why their setup eats
tranys, motor shafts, and couplers.

On the topic of clutch slippage: the typical diaphragm spring PP(and other
designs too), by design, produces more pressure on the clutch disc
proportional to the RPM..Conversely, this also reduces the pedal pressure
required starting off and at low speed (saves your knee!). This works great
for ICEs where max engine torque is in the middle to upper RPM band. Most
electric motors, however, produce max torque right from the git go. A heavy
duty (racing?) PP with more initial spring pressure might be the solution.

This high RPM extra spring pressure might deform (dish) a too-thin flywheel,
causing all kinds of weirdness.

--
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/How-thin-can-a-flywheel-be-tp2993221p2994815.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Discussion Starter #9
James Massey wrote:

> ...
>
> The motor was factory balanced, and I don't believe anything we're
> doing
> will upset that. Turning the new flywheel true should have it in
> balance
> tight from the word go (it did in the Honda). To get it true, I'll
> turn
> a stub in the lathe, then do up the taperlock onto the stub, and
> turn it
> all without taking it off. By using the lathe tool to scribe the PCD
> of
> the bolts and clutch alignment dowels onto the flywheel and turning
> the
> flywheel OD to be true to the clutch cover diameter, it should be
> simple
> to position the clutch cover onto the flywheel, clamp it in place and
> drill the bolt and pin holes.
>
> ...

Hi James,

I agree; I do not think you will need an up-rated clutch as long as
you keep the controller below 800A in your vehicle.

I think you will struggle to get the pressure plate (clutch cover)
well-enough aligned with the flywheel by referencing their respective
outer diameters. You will find that as the pressure plate is pressed
steel the o/s diameter will not be a perfect circle and you will have
to turn it down to make it so. Even then, how will you be sure to
maintain their concentricity whilst you drill all the holes?

If you are going to turn the pressure plate down then you might as
well go with my lip idea and then not have to worry about dowels or
indeed any degree of accuracy drilling the pressure plate mounting
holes in the flywheel as all the alignment is taken care of between
the flywheel lip and turned outer edge of the pressure plate.

The original flywheel and pressure plate were balanced separately at
manufacture. As long as the bolts you use to connect the pressure
plate to the new flywheel are the same length then you should maintain
the pressure plates balance as long as you do not remove to much
material off the outer edge.

Good luck either way!

Regards, Martin Winlow
Herts, UK
http://www.evalbum.com/2092
www.winlow.co.uk



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Discussion Starter #10
EV Convert wrote:

> On the topic of clutch slippage: the typical diaphragm spring PP(and
> other
> designs too), by design, produces more pressure on the clutch disc
> proportional to the RPM..Conversely, this also reduces the pedal
> pressure
> required starting off and at low speed (saves your knee!). This
> works great
> for ICEs where max engine torque is in the middle to upper RPM band.
> Most
> electric motors, however, produce max torque right from the git go.
> A heavy
> duty (racing?) PP with more initial spring pressure might be the
> solution.
>
> This high RPM extra spring pressure might deform (dish) a too-thin
> flywheel,
> causing all kinds of weirdness.

Hi ?...

I have not heard about this before. What mechanism makes this happen?

Regards, Martin Winlow
Herts, UK
http://www.evalbum.com/2092
www.winlow.co.uk



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Discussion Starter #11
My Porsche flywheel had a lip that centered the pressure plate. I got a
lightened, triple clamping force pressure plate from Kennedy Engineering
Products.

I did a calculation that if my flywheel/pressure plate was 0.007" off center it
would create 100 lbs of imbalance force! That would be a lot of vibration. You
need to be accurate. You can also get your flywheel and pressure plate balanced
as a unit at a racing machine shop. Mine vibrated on a test spinup, but I
flipped the pressure plate 180 degrees and that fixed it.




________________________________
From: EV Convert <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, October 13, 2010 11:22:09 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] How thin can a flywheel be?


Your idea to scribe the flywheel to locate the pressure plate(PP) bolt holes
and locating dowels probably won't locate the PP accurately enough. Martin's
idea to concentrically machine the PP's OD flange (if it isn't already
machined so) to fit a step machined in the flywheel is a better option. BTW,
his idea to accurately locate the adapter plate between the motor and the
trany also has a lot of merit (see his blog). People seem to forget or
gloss over this important detail and then wonder why their setup eats
tranys, motor shafts, and couplers.

On the topic of clutch slippage: the typical diaphragm spring PP(and other
designs too), by design, produces more pressure on the clutch disc
proportional to the RPM..Conversely, this also reduces the pedal pressure
required starting off and at low speed (saves your knee!). This works great
for ICEs where max engine torque is in the middle to upper RPM band. Most
electric motors, however, produce max torque right from the git go. A heavy
duty (racing?) PP with more initial spring pressure might be the solution.

This high RPM extra spring pressure might deform (dish) a too-thin flywheel,
causing all kinds of weirdness.



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Discussion Starter #12
Hi Martin. The old style coil spring and lever clutches I've seen with this
feature had centrifugally activated rollers to increase the clamping force
on the disc. These were large Mopar V8s. I seem to recall a design that had
fly weights forged into the levers as well.

My memory's a little more fuzzy on the diaphragm spring design. I think,
when engaged, the shallow conical shape of the spring imparts a fly weight
function to the actuating fingers- increasing the clamping force with higher
revs. Someone with more time could probably find a better explanation on
Google. http://www.indiacar.com/infobank/theclutch.htm has some info.

Either way, this feature appears to be not much help to most of us EVers.

Glenn

EV Convert wrote:

> On the topic of clutch slippage: the typical diaphragm spring PP(and
> other
> designs too), by design, produces more pressure on the clutch disc
> proportional to the RPM..Conversely, this also reduces the pedal
> pressure
> required starting off and at low speed (saves your knee!). This
> works great
> for ICEs where max engine torque is in the middle to upper RPM band.
> Most
> electric motors, however, produce max torque right from the git go.
> A heavy
> duty (racing?) PP with more initial spring pressure might be the
> solution.
>
> This high RPM extra spring pressure might deform (dish) a too-thin
> flywheel,
> causing all kinds of weirdness.

Hi ?...

I have not heard about this before. What mechanism makes this happen?

Regards, Martin Winlow
Herts, UK
http://www.evalbum.com/2092
www.winlow.co.uk



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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
EV Convert wrote:

>
> Hi Martin. The old style coil spring and lever clutches I've seen
> with this
> feature had centrifugally activated rollers to increase the clamping
> force
> on the disc. These were large Mopar V8s. I seem to recall a design
> that had
> fly weights forged into the levers as well.
>
> My memory's a little more fuzzy on the diaphragm spring design. I
> think,
> when engaged, the shallow conical shape of the spring imparts a fly
> weight
> function to the actuating fingers- increasing the clamping force
> with higher
> revs. Someone with more time could probably find a better
> explanation on
> Google. http://www.indiacar.com/infobank/theclutch.htm has some info.
>
> Either way, this feature appears to be not much help to most of us
> EVers.
>
> Glenn
>
> On 14 Oct 2010, at 06:22, EV Convert wrote:
>
>> On the topic of clutch slippage: the typical diaphragm spring PP(and
>> other
>> designs too), by design, produces more pressure on the clutch disc
>> proportional to the RPM..Conversely, this also reduces the pedal
>> pressure
>> required starting off and at low speed (saves your knee!). This
>> works great
>> for ICEs where max engine torque is in the middle to upper RPM band.
>> Most
>> electric motors, however, produce max torque right from the git go.
>> A heavy
>> duty (racing?) PP with more initial spring pressure might be the
>> solution.
>>
>> This high RPM extra spring pressure might deform (dish) a too-thin
>> flywheel,
>> causing all kinds of weirdness.
>
> Hi ?...
>
> I have not heard about this before. What mechanism makes this happen?
>
> Regards, Martin Winlow
>

A-ha! - a bit like the old rpm govenors on engines (inc steam)...
definately OT! MW

Regards, Martin Winlow
Herts, UK
http://www.evalbum.com/2092
www.winlow.co.uk



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·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Hi Glen, and others,
I have been working with automotive clutches since 1968. The flywheel
we always specified stone ground for surface texture and better flatness.
The clutch disk surface friction material varied according to use similar to
brake lining material, and the pressure plate could be diaphragm which had
same pressure at all rpms and was great for making a big show and were using
what I call oil can geometry so it required little pressure to hold the
clutch pedal down at intersections. Or spring and lever type with weights
which slipped more at low engine rpm and became tighter with increased rpm
so it made it hard to stall and easier to slip and save the tires at start,
a much smoother drive "Like a Limo." when combined with an organic clutch
disk facing was easy to drive smoothly and at higher driving rpm slippage
went to zero for good mileage and long clutch life. To me it seemed the
clutch facing material whether organic or metallic was more important a
decision. The last time I had a concern was 6 or 8 years ago when I was
starting 80,000 pounds rolling then double clutching thru 10 gears with
40,000 pounds of liquid in the tank right behind my seat and extending back
about 30 feet. (That was not a diaphragm pressure plate.) I drove Tankers
for a couple years.
I would be more concerned if a not "Forged Steel" would stand the stress of
daily use and localized friction heating with every start, and then stay
together at 10 or 12 th0usand rpm in a malfunction run away or a missed
shift or accidental downshift. a friend downshifted a Corvair Monza at 70
MPH into first gear and shattered the multi plate clutch luckally the
bellhousing stayed together or he would have been badly injured.
Regards,
*Dennis Lee Miles* (Director) *E.V.T.I. inc*.
*www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM <http://www.e-v-t-i-inc.com/> *(Adviser)*
EVTI-EVAEducation Chapter
*
Phone (863) 944 - 9913
Initial demand (computed by extrapolating the reservations for GM Volt and
Nissan Leaf,) shall exceed 200,000 vehicles in 2010 and 2011. However only
50,000 vehicles will be marketed, so a LARGE demand for Nice Newer
Conversions is predicted!
============================================================

EV Convert <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> Hi Martin. The old style coil spring and lever clutches I've seen with this
> feature had centrifugally activated rollers to increase the clamping force
> on the disc. These were large Mopar V8s. I seem to recall a design that had
> fly weights forged into the levers as well.
>
> My memory's a little more fuzzy on the diaphragm spring design. I think,
> when engaged, the shallow conical shape of the spring imparts a fly weight
> function to the actuating fingers- increasing the clamping force with
> higher
> revs. Someone with more time could probably find a better explanation on
> Google. http://www.indiacar.com/infobank/theclutch.htm has some info.
>
> Either way, this feature appears to be not much help to most of us EVers.
>
> Glenn
>
> On 14 Oct 2010, at 06:22, EV Convert wrote:
>
> > On the topic of clutch slippage: the typical diaphragm spring PP(and
> > other
> > designs too), by design, produces more pressure on the clutch disc
> > proportional to the RPM..Conversely, this also reduces the pedal
> > pressure
> > required starting off and at low speed (saves your knee!). This
> > works great
> > for ICEs where max engine torque is in the middle to upper RPM band.
> > Most
> > electric motors, however, produce max torque right from the git go.
> > A heavy
> > duty (racing?) PP with more initial spring pressure might be the
> > solution.
> >
> > This high RPM extra spring pressure might deform (dish) a too-thin
> > flywheel,
> > causing all kinds of weirdness.
>
> Hi ?...
>
> I have not heard about this before. What mechanism makes this happen?
>
> Regards, Martin Winlow
> Herts, UK
> http://www.evalbum.com/2092
> www.winlow.co.uk
>
>
>
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>
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> Nabble.com.
>
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Joined
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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Ah there's a little bit of the steam punk in all of us. Here's a design
(centerforce ) that accentuates the centrifugal action of the fingers with
extra
flyweights:http://image.chevyhiperformance.com/f/11127549+w750+st0/0812chp_03_z+centerforce_clutch_performance_tips+pressure_plate_design.jpg

Again, this wouldn't help with low RPM slippage . I wonder if this is a
problem, say in your flywheel design, would sinking the clutch cover flange
into the flywheel increase the pressure on the clutch disc? You could easily
mess up the over centering geometry of the design-so you'd have to be
careful.
martinwinlow wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
EV Convert wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi Martin. The old style coil spring and lever clutches I've seen
>> with this
>> feature had centrifugally activated rollers to increase the clamping
>> force
>> on the disc. These were large Mopar V8s. I seem to recall a design
>> that had
>> fly weights forged into the levers as well.
>>
>> My memory's a little more fuzzy on the diaphragm spring design. I
>> think,
>> when engaged, the shallow conical shape of the spring imparts a fly
>> weight
>> function to the actuating fingers- increasing the clamping force
>> with higher
>> revs. Someone with more time could probably find a better
>> explanation on
>> Google. http://www.indiacar.com/infobank/theclutch.htm has some info.
>>
>> Either way, this feature appears to be not much help to most of us
>> EVers.
>>
>> Glenn
>>
>> On 14 Oct 2010, at 06:22, EV Convert wrote:
>>
>>> On the topic of clutch slippage: the typical diaphragm spring PP(and
>>> other
>>> designs too), by design, produces more pressure on the clutch disc
>>> proportional to the RPM..Conversely, this also reduces the pedal
>>> pressure
>>> required starting off and at low speed (saves your knee!). This
>>> works great
>>> for ICEs where max engine torque is in the middle to upper RPM band.
>>> Most
>>> electric motors, however, produce max torque right from the git go.
>>> A heavy
>>> duty (racing?) PP with more initial spring pressure might be the
>>> solution.
>>>
>>> This high RPM extra spring pressure might deform (dish) a too-thin
>>> flywheel,
>>> causing all kinds of weirdness.
>>
>> Hi ?...
>>
>> I have not heard about this before. What mechanism makes this happen?
>>
>> Regards, Martin Winlow
>>
>
> A-ha! - a bit like the old rpm govenors on engines (inc steam)...
> definately OT! MW
>
> Regards, Martin Winlow
> Herts, UK
> http://www.evalbum.com/2092
> www.winlow.co.uk
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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>
>

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