[EVDL] Introduction - New EV List Member

945 Views 6 Replies 1 Participant Last post by EVDL List, Feb 4, 2011

EVDL List

Discussion Starter · Feb 1, 2011

Hi all. I wanted to take a moment and introduce myself. My name is
Jeff; I'm an IT guy for a rehab hospital in Allentown, PA. I grew up
learning cars, computers, and electronics from my dad. Now, I'm a dad
of 3 myself and trying to save money and have fun at the same time.
I'm a long-time member at EcoModder and at CleanMPG, which has kept my
interest in hybrids and EVs growing.

Last fall I was talking to some friends and one of them mentioned that
they wanted to build an EV. Shortly thereafter, we had to replace some
of the batteries in our UPS. So I claimed the old ones. That, coupled
with friends interested in EVs, plus watching the development of the
Open Revolt PWM controller on EcoModder made me think we could really
do this!

So now, we're doing it. I have all sorts of stuff, and MANY things to
learn or re-learn. I've got a blog up to document the process - it can
be found at http://myelectriclife.wordpress.com

Thanks in advance for whatever you folks provide!

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Discussion Starter · #2 · Feb 1, 2011

Jeff

Welcome to the fray. Glad to see another Least Coaster join the group.
I usually tow my EV through Allentown every year on my way to Power of
DC in Hagerstown.

The only bit of advice I'll offer up is that those UPS batteries are
may be good to get you going but probably won't last long term. IIRC
they just aren't designed for EV duty. But they may work to get your
EV up and running. Just plan for the pack voltage you want to run and
make your battery locations flexible. You can play around with
different voltage levels and see how the car performs before upgrading
your pack. I don't know how they will handle higher current levels and
frequent charge/discharge cycles.

I haven't been to the blog yet, but what are your goals for the car?
Daily driver, commuter, family wagon, racer? These decisions will have
a big impact on the components you use. Do you have a car picked out
yet?

Dave Cover, just up the road a way in Connecticut

Jeff Haskell <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi all. I wanted to take a moment and introduce myself. My name is
> Jeff; I'm an IT guy for a rehab hospital in Allentown, PA. I grew up
> learning cars, computers, and electronics from my dad. Now, I'm a dad
> of 3 myself and trying to save money and have fun at the same time.
> I'm a long-time member at EcoModder and at CleanMPG, which has kept my
> interest in hybrids and EVs growing.
>
> Last fall I was talking to some friends and one of them mentioned that
> they wanted to build an EV. Shortly thereafter, we had to replace some
> of the batteries in our UPS. So I claimed the old ones. That, coupled
> with friends interested in EVs, plus watching the development of the
> Open Revolt PWM controller on EcoModder made me think we could really
> do this!
>
> So now, we're doing it. I have all sorts of stuff, and MANY things to
> learn or re-learn. I've got a blog up to document the process - it can
> be found at http://myelectriclife.wordpress.com
>
> Thanks in advance for whatever you folks provide!
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

--
http://www.evalbum.com/2149

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Discussion Starter · #3 · Feb 1, 2011

Batteries are small, and basically are going to be a 'test pack.' I've
got EIGHT sets of 96V, 7.2A (yep, they're tiny!) batteries. Each of
those 8 sets is made of 8 batteries - so I have 64 batteries at 12V,
7.2A each. I have a 2 HP permanent magnet DC motor from a treadmill,
as well at the complete electronics from a motorized
wheelchair/scooter. One of the other guys of our group has a go-kart
without a motor, so our plan was to start there.

The scooter electronics are fully functional:

Throttle assembly
Curtis 1208 PWM controller (36V max, 50A cont., 75A peak)
24V charger

Our plan is to get the go-kart moving (even if slowly) with a portion
of the batteries and the scooter controller. Once we have mobility,
the plan is to start building on of the open-source 144V 500A
controllers (or a variant thereof) from Paul Holmes on EcoModder.
After it's assembled, swap it in and use the go-kart for testing. Iron
out all the bugs, and then move the controller to a full car with a
new/different battery pack.

After talking to my uncles, one of them volunteered a VW Jetta that he
has sitting for the conversion. I don't know more details because I
was ecstatic to be donated a car for free that I just said thanks! I
plan to get details on year/etc from him this week.

Working in a rehab facility gives me pretty good access to ALL KINDS
of batteries - the UPS ones I have now, as well as all sorts of
wheelchair/scooter batteries. When the time comes for a *real* pack,
I'll probably go back to that department and see what I can scrounge
up.

I basically want the car to be a "local driver." Not looking for more
than 45 MPH max, 30-60 mile range. It'll be used to run around town
here for 3-10 mile jaunts, and to show off to friends and family. Not
looking for ultra max range or racing configuration; just looking (for
the moment) to be able to say "it works!" with the stuff I have on
hand.

dave cover <[email protected]> wrote:
> Jeff
>
> Welcome to the fray. Glad to see another Least Coaster join the group.
> I usually tow my EV through Allentown every year on my way to Power of
> DC in Hagerstown.
>
> The only bit of advice I'll offer up is that those UPS batteries are
> may be good to get you going but probably won't last long term. IIRC
> they just aren't designed for EV duty. But they may work to get your
> EV up and running. Just plan for the pack voltage you want to run and
> make your battery locations flexible. You can play around with
> different voltage levels and see how the car performs before upgrading
> your pack. I don't know how they will handle higher current levels and
> frequent charge/discharge cycles.
>
> I haven't been to the blog yet, but what are your goals for the car?
> Daily driver, commuter, family wagon, racer? These decisions will have
> a big impact on the components you use. Do you have a car picked out
> yet?
>
> Dave Cover, just up the road a way in Connecticut
>
> On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 10:35 AM, Jeff Haskell <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Hi all. I wanted to take a moment and introduce myself. My name is
>> Jeff; I'm an IT guy for a rehab hospital in Allentown, PA. I grew up
>> learning cars, computers, and electronics from my dad. Now, I'm a dad
>> of 3 myself and trying to save money and have fun at the same time.
>> I'm a long-time member at EcoModder and at CleanMPG, which has kept my
>> interest in hybrids and EVs growing.
>>
>> Last fall I was talking to some friends and one of them mentioned that
>> they wanted to build an EV. Shortly thereafter, we had to replace some
>> of the batteries in our UPS. So I claimed the old ones. That, coupled
>> with friends interested in EVs, plus watching the development of the
>> Open Revolt PWM controller on EcoModder made me think we could really
>> do this!
>>
>> So now, we're doing it. I have all sorts of stuff, and MANY things to
>> learn or re-learn. I've got a blog up to document the process - it can
>> be found at http://myelectriclife.wordpress.com
>>
>> Thanks in advance for whatever you folks provide!
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
>> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.evalbum.com/2149
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
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| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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Discussion Starter · #4 · Feb 1, 2011

Excellent plan! You will learn much by starting small. I ran my motorcycle for a couple of years off of some surplus UPS batteries. They were larger than the small ones you are starting out with, 50lbs each (I still have a bunch of the small ones laying around as well). The UPS batteries were not ideal, but I got them for free and they handled the 100 - 300 amp loads fairly well with a reasonable lifespan, so you may just find something laying around that will get you on the road.
damon

> From: [email protected]
> Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 13:01:48 -0500
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Introduction - New EV List Member
>
> Batteries are small, and basically are going to be a 'test pack.' I've
> got EIGHT sets of 96V, 7.2A (yep, they're tiny!) batteries. Each of
> those 8 sets is made of 8 batteries - so I have 64 batteries at 12V,
> 7.2A each. I have a 2 HP permanent magnet DC motor from a treadmill,
> as well at the complete electronics from a motorized
> wheelchair/scooter. One of the other guys of our group has a go-kart
> without a motor, so our plan was to start there.
>
> The scooter electronics are fully functional:
>
> Throttle assembly
> Curtis 1208 PWM controller (36V max, 50A cont., 75A peak)
> 24V charger
>
> Our plan is to get the go-kart moving (even if slowly) with a portion
> of the batteries and the scooter controller. Once we have mobility,
> the plan is to start building on of the open-source 144V 500A
> controllers (or a variant thereof) from Paul Holmes on EcoModder.
> After it's assembled, swap it in and use the go-kart for testing. Iron
> out all the bugs, and then move the controller to a full car with a
> new/different battery pack.
>
> After talking to my uncles, one of them volunteered a VW Jetta that he
> has sitting for the conversion. I don't know more details because I
> was ecstatic to be donated a car for free that I just said thanks! I
> plan to get details on year/etc from him this week.
>
> Working in a rehab facility gives me pretty good access to ALL KINDS
> of batteries - the UPS ones I have now, as well as all sorts of
> wheelchair/scooter batteries. When the time comes for a *real* pack,
> I'll probably go back to that department and see what I can scrounge
> up.
>
> I basically want the car to be a "local driver." Not looking for more
> than 45 MPH max, 30-60 mile range. It'll be used to run around town
> here for 3-10 mile jaunts, and to show off to friends and family. Not
> looking for ultra max range or racing configuration; just looking (for
> the moment) to be able to say "it works!" with the stuff I have on
> hand.
>
>

dave cover <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Jeff
> >
> > Welcome to the fray. Glad to see another Least Coaster join the group.
> > I usually tow my EV through Allentown every year on my way to Power of
> > DC in Hagerstown.
> >
> > The only bit of advice I'll offer up is that those UPS batteries are
> > may be good to get you going but probably won't last long term. IIRC
> > they just aren't designed for EV duty. But they may work to get your
> > EV up and running. Just plan for the pack voltage you want to run and
> > make your battery locations flexible. You can play around with
> > different voltage levels and see how the car performs before upgrading
> > your pack. I don't know how they will handle higher current levels and
> > frequent charge/discharge cycles.
> >
> > I haven't been to the blog yet, but what are your goals for the car?
> > Daily driver, commuter, family wagon, racer? These decisions will have
> > a big impact on the components you use. Do you have a car picked out
> > yet?
> >
> > Dave Cover, just up the road a way in Connecticut
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 10:35 AM, Jeff Haskell <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Hi all. I wanted to take a moment and introduce myself. My name is
> >> Jeff; I'm an IT guy for a rehab hospital in Allentown, PA. I grew up
> >> learning cars, computers, and electronics from my dad. Now, I'm a dad
> >> of 3 myself and trying to save money and have fun at the same time.
> >> I'm a long-time member at EcoModder and at CleanMPG, which has kept my
> >> interest in hybrids and EVs growing.
> >>
> >> Last fall I was talking to some friends and one of them mentioned that
> >> they wanted to build an EV. Shortly thereafter, we had to replace some
> >> of the batteries in our UPS. So I claimed the old ones. That, coupled
> >> with friends interested in EVs, plus watching the development of the
> >> Open Revolt PWM controller on EcoModder made me think we could really
> >> do this!
> >>
> >> So now, we're doing it. I have all sorts of stuff, and MANY things to
> >> learn or re-learn. I've got a blog up to document the process - it can
> >> be found at http://myelectriclife.wordpress.com
> >>
> >> Thanks in advance for whatever you folks provide!
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> >> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> >> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> >> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> >> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://www.evalbum.com/2149
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> > | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> > | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> > | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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Discussion Starter · #5 · Feb 1, 2011

On 1 Feb 2011 at 13:01, Jeff Haskell wrote:

> I have 64 batteries at 12V, 7.2A each.

I take it you mean 7.2 amp HOUR (AH) batteries.

But the amp-hour capacity is significant anyway.

Some AGM types (not all) can deliver 5-10 times their amp-hours, expressed
in amps (usually written as 5-10C), for brief periods. Of course if you ask
for those kinds of currents for very long or very often, they're going to
drain fast!

Other AGMs, and all gel batteries, can't produce more than 2C or even 1C
because of their higher internal resistance. Allowing for motor efficiency,
with a 96v string, that's only about 0.7 to 1.4 horsepower. That kind of
power is apt to make for a fairly dull ride, even with a light vehicle.

You could connect more than one string in parallel to increase the available
power and energy storage (more zoom for longer).

Just make sure that the strings are roughly the same voltage, so one doesn't
discharge the other. It wouldn't be uncommon for some of these used
batteries to have weak cells. I'd recommend carrying out load and capacity
tests on those batteries so you can weed out the stinkers.

> I have a 2 HP permanent magnet DC motor from a treadmill ...
> open-source 144V 500A controller ... Not looking for more than 45 MPH
> max, 30-60 mile range.

This is a fairly realistic top speed goal for a homebrew vehicle, but I
don't think you'll get there with a treadmill motor! You'll need something
much more substantial. If you're into scrounging, you might try to find a
used pump motor from a forklift. Other scroungers here may have more
suggestions.

To achieve your range goals, you'll need to have 1/3 to 1/2 of the vehicle's
total weight in batteries.

Sounds like a fun project!

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Discussion Starter · #6 · Feb 1, 2011

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Discussion Starter · #7 · Feb 4, 2011

I have already posted what I recommend as a good approach to an EV
conversion. So as to save evdl bandwidth, all new members seeking to
do an EV conversion, please read my approach at
http://brucedp.150m.com/ev-conversion-approach.txt
--
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Introduction-New-EV-List-Member-tp3251845p3260919.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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