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[EVDL] J-1772 Standard Help

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E
I have been trying to learn as much as possible and reading every post
I have seen on it, but do not have access to the actual standard. So
a (possibly dumb) question...

Everything I have seen so far just shows a car providing a pilot
signal to turn on the EVSE to provide the 240 volts for charging. I
am on the list to order a Leaf when available in my area, and am
following the discussions on the EVSE cost and installation (heavily
discussed on the RAV4 EV list). My question, after seeing the J-1772
male plug and cord on Ebay, is, does the EVSE actually talk to the car
and tell the car to start charging, or does the car only tell the EVSE
to provide power? If I take the plug and cord, and put a NEMA 14-50
plug on the other end so that it provides 240 volts to the car, will
the car happily charge or does the car want more? I already have a
50A 240V plug at my driveway for my RV. It seems simple if I could
plug the J-1772 into the Leaf, plug into the RV port, then turn on the
breaker (as in most RV ports, there is a breaker at the plug). What
am I missing?

Dave Davidson
Glen Burnie, Maryland

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
There is a wikipedia page on this subject.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J1772

You might also want to talk to ClipperCreek. They have an adapter cord for J1772, but it looks like it only does 110 and not 240.
http://www.clippercreek.com/


----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Davidson" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, October 2, 2010 11:29:56 AM
Subject: [EVDL] J-1772 Standard Help

I have been trying to learn as much as possible and reading every post
I have seen on it, but do not have access to the actual standard. So
a (possibly dumb) question...

Everything I have seen so far just shows a car providing a pilot
signal to turn on the EVSE to provide the 240 volts for charging. I
am on the list to order a Leaf when available in my area, and am
following the discussions on the EVSE cost and installation (heavily
discussed on the RAV4 EV list). My question, after seeing the J-1772
male plug and cord on Ebay, is, does the EVSE actually talk to the car
and tell the car to start charging, or does the car only tell the EVSE
to provide power? If I take the plug and cord, and put a NEMA 14-50
plug on the other end so that it provides 240 volts to the car, will
the car happily charge or does the car want more? I already have a
50A 240V plug at my driveway for my RV. It seems simple if I could
plug the J-1772 into the Leaf, plug into the RV port, then turn on the
breaker (as in most RV ports, there is a breaker at the plug). What
am I missing?

Dave Davidson
Glen Burnie, Maryland

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
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E

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72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The car expects to see a +/- 12V 1kHz pilot signal with 1kOhm source
impedance before it starts charging. You are of course responsible for
the consequences of bypassing the protection mechanisms that the EVSE
provides.

Dave Davidson <[email protected]> wrote:
> I have been trying to learn as much as possible and reading every post
> I have seen on it, but do not have access to the actual standard. So
> a (possibly dumb) question...
>
> Everything I have seen so far just shows a car providing a pilot
> signal to turn on the EVSE to provide the 240 volts for charging. I
> am on the list to order a Leaf when available in my area, and am
> following the discussions on the EVSE cost and installation (heavily
> discussed on the RAV4 EV list). My question, after seeing the J-1772
> male plug and cord on Ebay, is, does the EVSE actually talk to the car
> and tell the car to start charging, or does the car only tell the EVSE
> to provide power? If I take the plug and cord, and put a NEMA 14-50
> plug on the other end so that it provides 240 volts to the car, will
> the car happily charge or does the car want more? I already have a
> 50A 240V plug at my driveway for my RV. It seems simple if I could
> plug the J-1772 into the Leaf, plug into the RV port, then turn on the
> breaker (as in most RV ports, there is a breaker at the plug). What
> am I missing?
>
> Dave Davidson
> Glen Burnie, Maryland
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



-- =

www.electric-lemon.com

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E

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72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks everyone. I'm trying to learn, and was hoping to avoid the
$2100 - $3000 cost of the EVSE, whcih from what I had seen so far
looked like just a fancy coupler with a few whistles and bells thrown
in. I have been unable to see the actual standard. The area
libraries don't have copies of the SAE standards, and the closest
library with a copy seems to be over 1000 miles away. I figured it
wouldn't be as simple as I hoped, but had to ask.

Dave

Dennis Miles <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi Dave, For educational purposes and not as a recommendation as many =
"Law
> Advisors have warned me." the charger in the vehicle is suposed to monitor
> the same pilot signal as the supply control ciircuit. at first attachment
> the 12VDC. switches to +/-12V square wave. then drops to +9/-0 at the
> charger. the charger switches in another parallel resistance requesting
> 240VAC "ON" with a level of +6 or +3 depending upon the need for ventilat=
ing
> fans. if fans are requested they must signal the source control before it
> supplies any 240 AC @ 30A. When charging is complete, the pilot voltage is
> restored to +9 and 240 ACV and the vent fans are shut off by the source
> controller.
>
> Regards,
> Dennis Lee Miles (Director) E.V.T.I. inc.
> www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM (Adviser) EVTI-EVA Education Chapter
> Phone (863) 944 - 9913
> Initial demand (computed by extrapolating the reservations for GM Vol=
t and
> Nissan Leaf,) shall exceed 200,000 vehicles in 2010 and 2011. However only
> 50,000 vehicles will be marketed, so a LARGE demand for Nice Newer
> Conversions is predicted!
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
> On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 1:29 PM, Dave Davidson <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> I have been trying to learn as much as possible and reading every post
>> I have seen on it, but do not have access to the actual standard. So
>> a (possibly dumb) question...
>>
>> Everything I have seen so far just shows a car providing a pilot
>> signal to turn on the EVSE to provide the 240 volts for charging. I
>> am on the list to order a Leaf when available in my area, and am
>> following the discussions on the EVSE cost and installation (heavily
>> discussed on the RAV4 EV list). My question, after seeing the J-1772
>> male plug and cord on Ebay, is, does the EVSE actually talk to the car
>> and tell the car to start charging, or does the car only tell the EVSE
>> to provide power? If I take the plug and cord, and put a NEMA 14-50
>> plug on the other end so that it provides 240 volts to the car, will
>> the car happily charge or does the car want more? I already have a
>> 50A 240V plug at my driveway for my RV. It seems simple if I could
>> plug the J-1772 into the Leaf, plug into the RV port, then turn on the
>> breaker (as in most RV ports, there is a breaker at the plug). What
>> am I missing?
>>
>> Dave Davidson
>> Glen Burnie, Maryland
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
>> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
>
> --
>
>

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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E

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72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
This one sold for only $270.00 on ebay & I'll bet they will be about half of
that within a year.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260667699877&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
--
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/J-1772-Standard-Help-tp2952600p2953255.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hi, Dave, The following link provides the most through explanation od a
"Charging Station" for j1772 level II a 1/2 page schematic in it was once
sent to me and I explained how that worked in a memo that is archived as
J1772 on the "EVDL" list.
<http://portal.fciconnect.com/res/en/pdffiles/AutomotiveHighPower/FCI_Power+S3+SAE+J1772+Charge+plug+2010+06.pdf>
http://portal.fciconnect.com/res/en/pdffiles/AutomotiveHighPower/FCI_Power+S3+SAE+J1772+Charge+plug+2010+06.pdf

I hope this helps, The charger in the "Leaf" is also supposed to require the
pilot signal levels to authorize it to draw power.
Regards,
*Dennis Lee Miles* (Director) *E.V.T.I. inc*.
*www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM <http://www.e-v-t-i-inc.com/> *(Adviser)*
EVTI-EVAEducation Chapter
*
Phone (863) 944 - 9913
Initial demand (computed by extrapolating the reservations for GM Volt and
Nissan Leaf,) shall exceed 200,000 vehicles in 2010 and 2011. However only
50,000 vehicles will be marketed, so a LARGE demand for Nice Newer
Conversions is predicted!
=========================================================
Dave Davidson <[email protected]> wrote:

> I have been trying to learn as much as possible and reading every post
> I have seen on it, but do not have access to the actual standard. So
> a (possibly dumb) question...
>
> Everything I have seen so far just shows a car providing a pilot
> signal to turn on the EVSE to provide the 240 volts for charging. I
> am on the list to order a Leaf when available in my area, and am
> following the discussions on the EVSE cost and installation (heavily
> discussed on the RAV4 EV list). My question, after seeing the J-1772
> male plug and cord on Ebay, is, does the EVSE actually talk to the car
> and tell the car to start charging, or does the car only tell the EVSE
> to provide power? If I take the plug and cord, and put a NEMA 14-50
> plug on the other end so that it provides 240 volts to the car, will
> the car happily charge or does the car want more? I already have a
> 50A 240V plug at my driveway for my RV. It seems simple if I could
> plug the J-1772 into the Leaf, plug into the RV port, then turn on the
> breaker (as in most RV ports, there is a breaker at the plug). What
> am I missing?
>
> Dave Davidson
> Glen Burnie, Maryland
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



--
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_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Dennis,

Thanks for the link. I was trying to see if I could somehow build a
bare bones EVSE. I don't live in California, so that California
credit doesn't help any. Also, the federal tax credit for a EVSE
currently expires at the end of 2010. I can't even order my Leaf
until December for delivery in April (and times may slip), so will not
be able to hit the timing unless the tax credits are extended. I
don't want to have to pay to have a EVSE installed at my house, then
have to uninstall it and put on a 14-50 plug so I can charge other
places. I don't need all the bells and whistles the current crop of
EVSE's have. All I want is a really simple EVSE where I can plug one
end into a 240 Volt receptacle and the other end into the Leaf to let
it charge. I was toying with building one myself, but would gladly
buy one if someone came out with one. The Tesla guys at the Power of
DC had a similar setup for their charging.

Dave

Dennis Miles <[email protected]> wrote:
> Dave, in the past, on this list, I have voiced this opinion, " Only those
> NEW Manufactured EV owners , still in Warranty, need a J1772 cable and pl=
ug
> at their home, and they are getting $7,500 and $3,000 more from "Fed" and
> California State, to install a proper J1772 Supply Station (The commercial
> ones are selling for about $5,000 installed by a licensed Electrical
> Contractor.)
>
> On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Dennis Miles <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi, Dave, The following link provides the most through explanation od=
a
>> "Charging Station" for j1772 level II a 1/2 page schematic in it was =
once
>> sent to me and I explained how that worked in a memo that is archived as
>> J1772 on the "EVDL" list.
>>
>>
>> http://portal.fciconnect.com/res/en/pdffiles/AutomotiveHighPower/FCI_Pow=
er+S3+SAE+J1772+Charge+plug+2010+06.pdf
>>
>> I hope this helps, The charger in the "Leaf" is also supposed to require
>> the pilot signal levels to authorize it to draw power.
>> Regards,
>> Dennis Lee Miles (Director) E.V.T.I. inc.
>> www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM (Adviser) EVTI-EVA Education Chapter
>> Phone (863) 944 - 9913
>> Initial demand (computed by extrapolating the reservations for GM Vo=
lt
>> and Nissan Leaf,) shall exceed 200,000 vehicles in 2010 and 2011. However
>> only 50,000 vehicles will be marketed, so a LARGE demand for Nice Newer
>> Conversions is predicted!
>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 1:29 PM, Dave Davidson <[email protected]> wrot=
e:
>>>
>>> I have been trying to learn as much as possible and reading every post
>>> I have seen on it, but do not have access to the actual standard. So
>>> a (possibly dumb) question...
>>>
>>> Everything I have seen so far just shows a car providing a pilot
>>> signal to turn on the EVSE to provide the 240 volts for charging. I
>>> am on the list to order a Leaf when available in my area, and am
>>> following the discussions on the EVSE cost and installation (heavily
>>> discussed on the RAV4 EV list). My question, after seeing the J-1772
>>> male plug and cord on Ebay, is, does the EVSE actually talk to the car
>>> and tell the car to start charging, or does the car only tell the EVSE
>>> to provide power? If I take the plug and cord, and put a NEMA 14-50
>>> plug on the other end so that it provides 240 volts to the car, will
>>> the car happily charge or does the car want more? I already have a
>>> 50A 240V plug at my driveway for my RV. It seems simple if I could
>>> plug the J-1772 into the Leaf, plug into the RV port, then turn on the
>>> breaker (as in most RV ports, there is a breaker at the plug). What
>>> am I missing?
>>>
>>> Dave Davidson
>>> Glen Burnie, Maryland
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
>>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>>> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
>>> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Dennis Lee Miles (Director) E.V.T.I. inc.
> www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM (Adviser) EVTI-EVA Education Chapter
> Phone (863) 944 - 9913
> Initial demand (computed by extrapolating the reservations for GM Vol=
t and
> Nissan Leaf,) shall exceed 200,000 vehicles in 2010 and 2011. However only
> 50,000 vehicles will be marketed, so a LARGE demand for Nice Newer
> Conversions is predicted!
>
>

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Click to expand...
 
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· Registered
Joined
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72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
"The Tesla guys at the Power of DC had a similar setup for their charging."
Dave, I was told that was not actually the J1772 interface in last years
Tesla.
Note that the negative alternation of the pilot signal is not applied to the
charger in the car. And all you need to do is convince the in car charger
that the pilot signal is correct. The sense circuit will be very sensitive
so it draws only a tiny current. Perhaps a 555 timer circuit running at 1Khz
and clip the output with a voltage divider or a diode clipper down to +3
peak and feed that to the charger to convince it that all is well so charge
the battery, meanwhile feed the two lines 240 VAC @ 30 AC Amps and the
common, from the RV circuit remembering to connect both ends of the cable,
before you switch on, and switch off before unplugging. *And use the money
you save for extra life insurance so if you aren't careful enough your
dependents will be supported for what would have been the remainder of your
life! *"There are Old electricians, and Bold electricians, but no
Old-Bold electricians"
Regards,
*Dennis Lee Miles* (Director) *E.V.T.I. inc*.
*www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM <http://www.e-v-t-i-inc.com/> *(Adviser)*
EVTI-EVAEducation Chapter
*
Phone (863) 944 - 9913
===========================================
Dave Davidson <[email protected]> wrote:

> Dennis,
>
> Thanks for the link. I was trying to see if I could somehow build a
> bare bones EVSE. I don't live in California, so that California
> credit doesn't help any. Also, the federal tax credit for a EVSE
> currently expires at the end of 2010. I can't even order my Leaf
> until December for delivery in April (and times may slip), so will not
> be able to hit the timing unless the tax credits are extended. I
> don't want to have to pay to have a EVSE installed at my house, then
> have to uninstall it and put on a 14-50 plug so I can charge other
> places. I don't need all the bells and whistles the current crop of
> EVSE's have. All I want is a really simple EVSE where I can plug one
> end into a 240 Volt receptacle and the other end into the Leaf to let
> it charge. I was toying with building one myself, but would gladly
> buy one if someone came out with one. The Tesla guys at the Power of
> DC had a similar setup for their charging.
>
> Dave
>
> On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 10:45 PM, Dennis Miles <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Dave, in the past, on this list, I have voiced this opinion, " Only those
> > NEW Manufactured EV owners , still in Warranty, need a J1772 cable and
> plug
> > at their home, and they are getting $7,500 and $3,000 more from "Fed" and
> > California State, to install a proper J1772 Supply Station (The
> commercial
> > ones are selling for about $5,000 installed by a licensed Electrical
> > Contractor.)
> >
> > On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Dennis Miles <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi, Dave, The following link provides the most through explanation od a
> >> "Charging Station" for j1772 level II a 1/2 page schematic in it was
> once
> >> sent to me and I explained how that worked in a memo that is archived as
> >> J1772 on the "EVDL" list.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> http://portal.fciconnect.com/res/en/pdffiles/AutomotiveHighPower/FCI_Power+S3+SAE+J1772+Charge+plug+2010+06.pdf
> >>
> >> I hope this helps, The charger in the "Leaf" is also supposed to require
> >> the pilot signal levels to authorize it to draw power.
> >> Regards,
> >> Dennis Lee Miles (Director) E.V.T.I. inc.
> >> www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM (Adviser) EVTI-EVA Education Chapter
> >> Phone (863) 944 - 9913
> >> Initial demand (computed by extrapolating the reservations for GM Volt
> >> and Nissan Leaf,) shall exceed 200,000 vehicles in 2010 and 2011.
> However
> >> only 50,000 vehicles will be marketed, so a LARGE demand for Nice Newer
> >> Conversions is predicted!
> >> =========================================================
> >> On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 1:29 PM, Dave Davidson <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I have been trying to learn as much as possible and reading every post
> >>> I have seen on it, but do not have access to the actual standard. So
> >>> a (possibly dumb) question...
> >>>
> >>> Everything I have seen so far just shows a car providing a pilot
> >>> signal to turn on the EVSE to provide the 240 volts for charging. I
> >>> am on the list to order a Leaf when available in my area, and am
> >>> following the discussions on the EVSE cost and installation (heavily
> >>> discussed on the RAV4 EV list). My question, after seeing the J-1772
> >>> male plug and cord on Ebay, is, does the EVSE actually talk to the car
> >>> and tell the car to start charging, or does the car only tell the EVSE
> >>> to provide power? If I take the plug and cord, and put a NEMA 14-50
> >>> plug on the other end so that it provides 240 volts to the car, will
> >>> the car happily charge or does the car want more? I already have a
> >>> 50A 240V plug at my driveway for my RV. It seems simple if I could
> >>> plug the J-1772 into the Leaf, plug into the RV port, then turn on the
> >>> breaker (as in most RV ports, there is a breaker at the plug). What
> >>> am I missing?
> >>>
> >>> Dave Davidson
> >>> Glen Burnie, Maryland
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> >>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> >>> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> >>> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> >>> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Regards,
> > Dennis Lee Miles (Director) E.V.T.I. inc.
> > www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM (Adviser) EVTI-EVA Education Chapter
> > Phone (863) 944 - 9913
> > Initial demand (computed by extrapolating the reservations for GM Volt
> and
> > Nissan Leaf,) shall exceed 200,000 vehicles in 2010 and 2011. However
> only
> > 50,000 vehicles will be marketed, so a LARGE demand for Nice Newer
> > Conversions is predicted!
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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--

Initial demand (computed by extrapolating the reservations for GM Volt and
Nissan Leaf,) shall exceed 200,000 vehicles in 2010 and 2011. However only
50,000 vehicles will be marketed, so a LARGE demand for Nice Newer
Conversions is predicted!
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72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
That's not likely to work, if the car sees a 3V pilot when it expects
a 9V or 6V it should fault out and not turn on the charger.
Use an opamp set up as a 1kHz square wave oscillator, driven by a +- 12V su=
pply.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electronic/square.html

Connect the pilot line to the output through a 1kOhm resistor. Yes
the charger shouldn't be able to see the -12V if they followed 1772 to
the letter but there's no guarantee they don't monitor the pilot
before the diode as well.

Add an up stream GFI for safety, don't skimp on this. Might make sense
to put the GFI inline in your cord so it's always with you.

And of course, you do this at your own risk. If you're not comfortable
wiring 240VAC circuits, you probably shouldn't attempt this.




Dennis Miles <[email protected]> wrote:
> "The Tesla guys at the Power of DC had a similar setup for their charging=
."
> Dave, I was told that was not actually the J1772 interface in last years
> Tesla.
> Note that the negative alternation of the pilot signal is not applied to =
the
> charger in the car. And all you need to do is convince the in car char=
ger
> that the pilot signal is correct. The sense circuit will be very sensitive
> so it draws only a tiny current. Perhaps a 555 timer circuit running at 1=
Khz
> and clip the output with a voltage divider or a diode clipper down to +3
> peak and feed that to the charger to convince it that all is well so char=
ge
> the battery, meanwhile feed the two lines 240 VAC @ 30 AC Amps and the
> common, from the RV circuit remembering to connect both ends of the ca=
ble,
> before you switch on, and switch off before unplugging. *And use the m=
oney
> you save for extra life insurance so if you aren't careful enough your
> dependents will be supported for what would have been the remainder of yo=
ur
> life! *"There are Old electricians, and Bold electricians, but no
> Old-Bold electricians"
> Regards,
> *Dennis Lee Miles* (Director) *E.V.T.I. inc*.
> *www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM <http://www.e-v-t-i-inc.com/> *(Adviser)*
> EVTI-EVAEducation Chapter
> *
> Phone (863) 944 - 9913
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 7:39 PM, Dave Davidson <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Dennis,
>>
>> Thanks for the link. I was trying to see if I could somehow build a
>> bare bones EVSE. I don't live in California, so that California
>> credit doesn't help any. Also, the federal tax credit for a EVSE
>> currently expires at the end of 2010. I can't even order my Leaf
>> until December for delivery in April (and times may slip), so will not
>> be able to hit the timing unless the tax credits are extended. I
>> don't want to have to pay to have a EVSE installed at my house, then
>> have to uninstall it and put on a 14-50 plug so I can charge other
>> places. I don't need all the bells and whistles the current crop of
>> EVSE's have. All I want is a really simple EVSE where I can plug one
>> end into a 240 Volt receptacle and the other end into the Leaf to let
>> it charge. I was toying with building one myself, but would gladly
>> buy one if someone came out with one. The Tesla guys at the Power of
>> DC had a similar setup for their charging.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 10:45 PM, Dennis Miles <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > Dave, in the past, on this list, I have voiced this opinion, " Only th=
ose
>> > NEW Manufactured EV owners , still in Warranty, need a J1772 cable and
>> plug
>> > at their home, and they are getting $7,500 and $3,000 more from "Fed" =
and
>> > California State, to install a proper J1772 Supply Station (The
>> commercial
>> > ones are selling for about $5,000 installed by a licensed Electrical
>> > Contractor.)
>> >
>> > On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Dennis Miles <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi, Dave, The following link provides the most through explanation=
od a
>> >> "Charging Station" for j1772 level II a 1/2 page schematic in it w=
as
>> once
>> >> sent to me and I explained how that worked in a memo that is archived=
as
>> >> J1772 on the "EVDL" list.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> http://portal.fciconnect.com/res/en/pdffiles/AutomotiveHighPower/FCI_Pow=
er+S3+SAE+J1772+Charge+plug+2010+06.pdf
>> >>
>> >> I hope this helps, The charger in the "Leaf" is also supposed to requ=
ire
>> >> the pilot signal levels to authorize it to draw power.
>> >> Regards,
>> >> Dennis Lee Miles (Director) E.V.T.I. inc.
>> >> www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM (Adviser) EVTI-EVA Education Chapter
>> >> Phone (863) 944 - 9913
>> >> Initial demand (computed by extrapolating the reservations for GM=
Volt
>> >> and Nissan Leaf,) shall exceed 200,000 vehicles in 2010 and 2011.
>> However
>> >> only 50,000 vehicles will be marketed, so a LARGE demand for Nice New=
er
>> >> Conversions is predicted!
>> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> >> On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 1:29 PM, Dave Davidson <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> I have been trying to learn as much as possible and reading every po=
st
>> >>> I have seen on it, but do not have access to the actual standard. =
So
>> >>> a (possibly dumb) question...
>> >>>
>> >>> Everything I have seen so far just shows a car providing a pilot
>> >>> signal to turn on the EVSE to provide the 240 volts for charging. =
I
>> >>> am on the list to order a Leaf when available in my area, and am
>> >>> following the discussions on the EVSE cost and installation (heavily
>> >>> discussed on the RAV4 EV list). My question, after seeing the J-1=
772
>> >>> male plug and cord on Ebay, is, does the EVSE actually talk to the c=
ar
>> >>> and tell the car to start charging, or does the car only tell the EV=
SE
>> >>> to provide power? If I take the plug and cord, and put a NEMA 14-=
50
>> >>> plug on the other end so that it provides 240 volts to the car, will
>> >>> the car happily charge or does the car want more? I already have a
>> >>> 50A 240V plug at my driveway for my RV. It seems simple if I could
>> >>> plug the J-1772 into the Leaf, plug into the RV port, then turn on t=
he
>> >>> breaker (as in most RV ports, there is a breaker at the plug). Wh=
at
>> >>> am I missing?
>> >>>
>> >>> Dave Davidson
>> >>> Glen Burnie, Maryland
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
>> >>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>> >>> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> >>> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
>> >>> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Regards,
>> > Dennis Lee Miles (Director) E.V.T.I. inc.
>> > www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM (Adviser) EVTI-EVA Education Chapter
>> > Phone (863) 944 - 9913
>> > Initial demand (computed by extrapolating the reservations for GM =
Volt
>> and
>> > Nissan Leaf,) shall exceed 200,000 vehicles in 2010 and 2011. However
>> only
>> > 50,000 vehicles will be marketed, so a LARGE demand for Nice Newer
>> > Conversions is predicted!
>> >
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
>> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Initial demand (computed by extrapolating the reservations for GM Volt=
and
> Nissan Leaf,) shall exceed 200,000 vehicles in 2010 and 2011. However only
> 50,000 vehicles will be marketed, so a LARGE demand for Nice Newer
> Conversions is predicted!
> -------------- next part --------------
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-- =

www.electric-lemon.com

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72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
[email protected] wrote:
> I haven't seen a J-1772 charging station yet, but I believe there is no
> neutral provided in the corded plug. Only two "hots" for 240 VAC and a
> ground. So, no 120 VAC available. There may be a separate 20 amp wall
> mount receptacle available, however.
>
> > I think the basic question has not been answered. If you plug the 120V
> > power cord into 240V, what will really happen?

I THINK Storm was exploring the possibility that 240 volts could be
applied to the 110v cable, not using the J-1772. Elcon and other
chargers work happily with either 110 or 220 and perhaps the Leaf
charger would do the same and charge at a higher rate on 220. I
would guess that Nissan has blocked that very convenient method of
charging. We will KNOW soon!

--
Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 36 days 9 hours 12 minutes

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Joined
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72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
The Eaton Crop is building the J1772 charging stations. Good write up and
installaiton instructions on their web sites under products. www.eaton.com

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Willie McKemie
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 2:15 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] J-1772 Standard Help

[email protected] wrote:
> I haven't seen a J-1772 charging station yet, but I believe there is
> no neutral provided in the corded plug. Only two "hots" for 240 VAC
> and a ground. So, no 120 VAC available. There may be a separate 20
> amp wall mount receptacle available, however.
>
> > I think the basic question has not been answered. If you plug the
> > 120V power cord into 240V, what will really happen?

I THINK Storm was exploring the possibility that 240 volts could be applied
to the 110v cable, not using the J-1772. Elcon and other chargers work
happily with either 110 or 220 and perhaps the Leaf charger would do the
same and charge at a higher rate on 220. I would guess that Nissan has
blocked that very convenient method of charging. We will KNOW soon!

--
Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 36 days 9 hours 12 minutes

_______________________________________________
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E

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72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Well,"The more the merrier." Already there are more companies in the
"Charging Infrastructure" business than there are major Auto manufacturers,
as players in the Electric or "Plug-In" vehicle business. Hopefully the
multiplicity of companies will Lobby our Government Officials to increase
the EV Industry accentuating legislation. (Ops, I almost stumbled hopping of
that soapbox.)
Regards,
*Dennis Lee Miles* (Director) *E.V.T.I. inc*.
*www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM <http://www.e-v-t-i-inc.com/> *(Adviser)*
EVTI-EVAEducation Chapter
*
Phone (813) ID4-EVTI
Initial demand (computed by extrapolating the reservations for GM Volt and
Nissan Leaf,) shall exceed 200,000 vehicles in 2010 and 2011. However only
50,000 vehicles will be marketed, so a LARGE demand for Nice Newer
Conversions is predicted!
==========================================================
Kent.Barnes <[email protected]>wrote:

> The Eaton Crop is building the J1772 charging stations. Good write up and
> installaiton instructions on their web sites under products.
> www.eaton.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf
> Of Willie McKemie
> Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 2:15 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] J-1772 Standard Help
>
> On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 08:09:43AM -0700, [email protected] wrote:
> > I haven't seen a J-1772 charging station yet, but I believe there is
> > no neutral provided in the corded plug. Only two "hots" for 240 VAC
> > and a ground. So, no 120 VAC available. There may be a separate 20
> > amp wall mount receptacle available, however.
> >
> > > I think the basic question has not been answered. If you plug the
> > > 120V power cord into 240V, what will really happen?
>
> I THINK Storm was exploring the possibility that 240 volts could be applied
> to the 110v cable, not using the J-1772. Elcon and other chargers work
> happily with either 110 or 220 and perhaps the Leaf charger would do the
> same and charge at a higher rate on 220. I would guess that Nissan has
> blocked that very convenient method of charging. We will KNOW soon!
>
> --
> Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
> http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
> Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 36 days 9 hours 12 minutes
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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>



--
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72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
storm connors wrote:

> I think the basic question has not been answered. If you plug
> the 120V power cord into 240V, what will really happen?

Quite possibly, you will be buying a new 120V power cord from Nissan for an outrageous price ;^>

I don't know what Nissan's 120V J1772 cord looks like, but the one supplied with the Volt has electronics in it, and there is no assurance that they will tolerate 240VAC.

Nissan's must also contain electronics since the cord must provide the J1772 pilot signal to the vehicle so that it will allow the charger to operate. The 120V cords may also include a relay to keep the J1772 paddle's contacts de-energised until the vehicle requests AC power.

The 120V cords ~probably~ generate a pilot signal that tells the charger that only 12A is available, since 12A is the most that a continuous load such as a charger can draw from a 15A outlet, so even if you did plug this cord into 240VAC and the magic smoke doesn't come out, it likely will not allow you to get the full power that the charger is capable of.

Cheers,

Roger.

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E

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72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I charge my car that way all the time with no problems.
I did have an issue with a cheap Harbor Freight F-male plug,
I went to a high quality plug and in 1 year no problem.
I'm only drawing 15 amps though.
My chargers work with 120 or 240 so it works out well to use the old plug
(VW Rabbit conversion gas cap location) that was in the car.
Neal
--
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/J-1772-Standard-Help-tp2952600p3001416.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Rush wrote:

> Entirely correct, the J1772 is 240vac ONLY.

It's getting to the point of splitting hairs, but strictly speaking, I don't believe J1772 is *any* particular voltage.

More correctly, the (present) J1772 connector only allows for 2 power conductors, so an EVSE (EV Supply Equipment) can provide 120V (hot + neutral) to the vehicle, or it can provide 240V or 208V (two hots) to the vehicle, but it cannot provide both at the same time since it cannot provide 2 hots and a neutral connection.

Case in point: the 120V opportunity/emergency charge cord provided with the Volt allows 120V (hot + neutral) to be connected to the onboard charger via the J1772 connector.

But, if you pull up to a J1772-compliant charge station that provides 240V via the J1772 connector, then you cannot directly power 120V loads from the J1772 connector. If the charge station includes an ordinary 120V outlet, you'd have to plug such loads in there.

Cheers,

Roger.

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