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Discussion Starter #1
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Discussion Starter #2
Ehhh, when I read this, I felt sorry for the author.
Unqualified claims which often are incorrect, mentioning
totally unrelated issues as if a towing violation ticket
has anything to do with EV towing at all....

There is only one simple suggestion: if you are not sure,
then make sure that the towed drive wheels are not on the
road. Does not matter if it is on a dolly or another way.
(I have towed a BMW *backwards* with its rear drive wheels
on the dolly without problem)
But you can also just get to know the EV a little better
so you know if you can tow without problem (My AC drive
S10 truck can be towed as fast as it can be driven, up
to 72 MPH without problem, except maybe a speeding ticket)
Other vehicles may need disconnection of driveshaft or
gearbox set to Neutral or otherwise...
Of course flatbed is the safest way, but also the most
expensive one to start with.

Motors heating up from turning is the first time I hear
and the only thing I can imagine is if your DC controller
starts feeding the EMF into the battery bank, though that
usually only happens when you are already over-revving
the motor...
usually when the motor turns fast, its internal fan that
is typical for a DC motor is also cooling well...
So, there are too many unaddressed/wrong/unrelated issues
to take this piece very seriously, even though the
general suggestion to do your research before buying and
transporting a vehicle is sound of course.

BTW, one thing they did not mention is box truck or
container transport of the EV if it needs to go long distance
and in container it can be transported by EV (train).

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of brucedp4
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 6:28 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [EVDL] Know how to tow your EV correctly


Ask for a flatbed tow-truck

http://gas2.org/2011/02/26/towing-an-electric-car-could-damage-its-motor
/
... Feb 26 2011 ...
Most electric vehicles do not have a transmission connecting its motor
to the driving wheels, nor does it have a neutral setting, which would
normally disengage the wheels from the motor. So, while a regular car
can be put into neutral to disable the drive-train before being towed,
an electric vehicle, like the Smith Newton, cannot. If the electric
vehicle (while turned off) is towed from the drive wheels, the motor
will continue to spin as the cooling system remains inactive. Due to the
friction from the spinning, this could heat the motor to a point where
it may be completely ruined. According to Bryan Hansel, chief executive
of Kansas City-based truck maker Smith Electric Vehicles U.S., a new
electric motor would cost him about $5,000 if it needed to be replaced.
Who wants to spend $5,000 on top of a towing violation ticket?

To avoid such an inconvenience, there is more than one solution. If you
are not going to spend the time dropping the driveshaft and towing from
the drive wheels, then tow from the idler wheels to prevent the motor
from spinning or ask for a flatbed tow-truck. You can also look into
electric vehicles whose manufacturers have designed models where this
nuisance won't be an issue. The Nissan Leaf and Ford Transit Connect EV
are front-wheel-drive, which prevents any damage that could be done by
towing. They also are both equipped with a gear box. This allows the
vehicles to be shifted into a "Park" or "Neutral" setting.
The first locks the driven wheels, while the latter disconnects the
driven wheels from the motor.

So if you are in the market for an EV, make sure you do your research
first. If you are already a lucky owner, watch where you park (or don't
park) and be aware of the instructions when towing your vehicle
correctly. [Source: Green Car Advisor (c) Important Media 2011]





{brucedp.150m.com}

--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Know-how-to
-tow-your-EV-correctly-tp3331587p3331587.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
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Discussion Starter #3
A PM motor would still have iron losses when not powered so it could
overheat if towed. I agree it's a somewhat clueless article though,
always tow with drive wheels off the road, problem solved.




Cor van de Water <[email protected]> wrote:
> Ehhh, when I read this, I felt sorry for the author.
> Unqualified claims which often are incorrect, mentioning
> totally unrelated issues as if a towing violation ticket
> has anything to do with EV towing at all....
>
> There is only one simple suggestion: if you are not sure,
> then make sure that the towed drive wheels are not on the
> road. Does not matter if it is on a dolly or another way.
> (I have towed a BMW *backwards* with its rear drive wheels
> on the dolly without problem)
> But you can also just get to know the EV a little better
> so you know if you can tow without problem (My AC drive
> S10 truck can be towed as fast as it can be driven, up
> to 72 MPH without problem, except maybe a speeding ticket)
> Other vehicles may need disconnection of driveshaft or
> gearbox set to Neutral or otherwise...
> Of course flatbed is the safest way, but also the most
> expensive one to start with.
>
> Motors heating up from turning is the first time I hear
> and the only thing I can imagine is if your DC controller
> starts feeding the EMF into the battery bank, though that
> usually only happens when you are already over-revving
> the motor...
> usually when the motor turns fast, its internal fan that
> is typical for a DC motor is also cooling well...
> So, there are too many unaddressed/wrong/unrelated issues
> to take this piece very seriously, even though the
> general suggestion to do your research before buying and
> transporting a vehicle is sound of course.
>
> BTW, one thing they did not mention is box truck or
> container transport of the EV if it needs to go long distance
> and in container it can be transported by EV (train).
>
> Cor van de Water
> Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of brucedp4
> Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 6:28 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [EVDL] Know how to tow your EV correctly
>
>
> Ask for a flatbed tow-truck
>
> http://gas2.org/2011/02/26/towing-an-electric-car-could-damage-its-motor
> /
> ... Feb 26 2011 ...
> Most electric vehicles do not have a transmission connecting its motor
> to the driving wheels, nor does it have a neutral setting, which would
> normally disengage the wheels from the motor. So, while a regular car
> can be put into neutral to disable the drive-train before being towed,
> an electric vehicle, like the Smith Newton, cannot. If the electric
> vehicle (while turned off) is towed from the drive wheels, the motor
> will continue to spin as the cooling system remains inactive. Due to the
> friction from the spinning, this could heat the motor to a point where
> it may be completely ruined. According to Bryan Hansel, chief executive
> of Kansas City-based truck maker Smith Electric Vehicles U.S., a new
> electric motor would cost him about $5,000 if it needed to be replaced.
> Who wants to spend $5,000 on top of a towing violation ticket?
>
> To avoid such an inconvenience, there is more than one solution. If you
> are not going to spend the time dropping the driveshaft and towing from
> the drive wheels, then tow from the idler wheels to prevent the motor
> from spinning or ask for a flatbed tow-truck. You can also look into
> electric vehicles whose manufacturers have designed models where this
> nuisance won't be an issue. The Nissan Leaf and Ford Transit Connect EV
> are front-wheel-drive, which prevents any damage that could be done by
> towing. They also are both equipped with a gear box. This allows the
> vehicles to be shifted into a "Park" or "Neutral" setting.
> The first locks the driven wheels, while the latter disconnects the
> driven wheels from the motor.
>
> So if you are in the market for an EV, make sure you do your research
> first. If you are already a lucky owner, watch where you park (or don't
> park) and be aware of the instructions when towing your vehicle
> correctly. [Source: Green Car Advisor (c) Important Media 2011]
>
>
>
>
>
> {brucedp.150m.com}
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Know-how-to
> -tow-your-EV-correctly-tp3331587p3331587.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



--
www.electric-lemon.com

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Discussion Starter #4
I agree that this is a red herring -- spinning an electric motor won't heat it up, and there is no oil lubrication issues like in an ICE, and if it is park, then you have to lift the drive wheel off the ground anyway...

> So, there are too many unaddressed/wrong/unrelated issues to take this piece very seriously, even though the general suggestion to do your research before buying and transporting a vehicle is sound of course.

Sincerely, Neil
http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/


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Discussion Starter #5
But, I have heard of more than one owner that towed their vehicle and found
afterwards that their transmission was in the wrong gear and the motor
over-revved, destroying the commutator. Obviously, everyone involved with
the towing job needs to pay attention. Out of gear, drive wheels up, or
flatbed are the safest. Just make sure you really did the one you thought
you were doing!

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Neil Blanchard
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 5:57 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Know how to tow your EV correctly

I agree that this is a red herring -- spinning an electric motor won't heat
it up, and there is no oil lubrication issues like in an ICE, and if it is
park, then you have to lift the drive wheel off the ground anyway...

> So, there are too many unaddressed/wrong/unrelated issues to take this
piece very seriously, even though the general suggestion to do your research
before buying and transporting a vehicle is sound of course.

Sincerely, Neil
http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/


_______________________________________________
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| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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Discussion Starter #6
What would happen if you towed a PM motor in gear? Could it over
voltage the controller or the motor insulation?

Neil Blanchard wrote:

> I agree that this is a red herring -- spinning an electric motor
> won't heat it up, and there is no oil lubrication issues like in an
> ICE, and if it is park, then you have to lift the drive wheel off
> the ground anyway...
>
>> So, there are too many unaddressed/wrong/unrelated issues to take
>> this piece very seriously, even though the general suggestion to do
>> your research before buying and transporting a vehicle is sound of
>> course.
>
> Sincerely, Neil
> http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/
>




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Discussion Starter #7
Roger Heuckeroth wrote:
> What would happen if you towed a PM motor in gear? Could it over
> voltage the controller or the motor insulation?

On a PM motor, voltage is proportional to RPM. If the car was geared for
(say) 80 mph top speed, then the motor voltage will be just about the
pack voltage at that speed.

The only way to go overvoltage is to go overspeed. This could happen if
it was an NEV only geared to go 35 mph and some fool is towing it at 60
mph. But under normal conditions, I think it's pretty unlikely.
--
Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen

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Discussion Starter #8
Cor,
You are right about this one. I was considering a car hauling trailer
until I saw the price $$$ so now I rent a Rental truck, stop by the Dumpster
and pick up a trash mattress, slide in the two 2x12 planks 12 ft long with
the two 2x4x10 wood screwed and glued to the bottom so it doesn't bend much.
for ramp service, and the 12 volt winch with the 3,000 lb rated cable and
the 35 ft. power cord with battery clips. (And a fuse!) Back the truck up to
12 feet from the EV, pull out the two planks and position carefully. tie
winch to back of truck with short length of chain with hooks, attach
extended cable to far end of car, roll down drivers side window so you can
adjust steering wheel as necessary, put mattress in front of truck, clip
wires to truck battery, use winch to move EV into truck all but last 3 or 4
feet, push EV in last few feet, disconnect winch wires, cable, chain, place
in back of truck with two planks under the EV . Always push
ev to front of truck and put good wheel "Chocks" behind wheels near back of
truck and screw or nail them to floor of truck. When unloading, remove
nails or screws, install ramp planks, attach winch pull EV out first few
feet, then lower to bottom of ramp with winch. Works great and in
comparison to maintaining and registration fee for trailer it is about break
even for one transport a month...
* Regards,
Dennis Lee Miles .COM
[email protected] <[email protected]>*
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Cor van de Water <[email protected]> wrote:

> Ehhh, when I read this, I felt sorry for the author.
> Unqualified claims which often are incorrect, mentioning
> totally unrelated issues as if a towing violation ticket
> has anything to do with EV towing at all....
>
> There is only one simple suggestion: if you are not sure,
> then make sure that the towed drive wheels are not on the
> road. Does not matter if it is on a dolly or another way.
> (I have towed a BMW *backwards* with its rear drive wheels
> on the dolly without problem)
> But you can also just get to know the EV a little better
> so you know if you can tow without problem (My AC drive
> S10 truck can be towed as fast as it can be driven, up
> to 72 MPH without problem, except maybe a speeding ticket)
> Other vehicles may need disconnection of driveshaft or
> gearbox set to Neutral or otherwise...
> Of course flatbed is the safest way, but also the most
> expensive one to start with.
>
> Motors heating up from turning is the first time I hear
> and the only thing I can imagine is if your DC controller
> starts feeding the EMF into the battery bank, though that
> usually only happens when you are already over-revving
> the motor...
> usually when the motor turns fast, its internal fan that
> is typical for a DC motor is also cooling well...
> So, there are too many unaddressed/wrong/unrelated issues
> to take this piece very seriously, even though the
> general suggestion to do your research before buying and
> transporting a vehicle is sound of course.
>
> BTW, one thing they did not mention is box truck or
> container transport of the EV if it needs to go long distance
> and in container it can be transported by EV (train).
>
> Cor van de Water
> Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of brucedp4
> Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 6:28 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [EVDL] Know how to tow your EV correctly
>
>
> Ask for a flatbed tow-truck
>
> http://gas2.org/2011/02/26/towing-an-electric-car-could-damage-its-motor
> /
> ... Feb 26 2011 ...
> Most electric vehicles do not have a transmission connecting its motor
> to the driving wheels, nor does it have a neutral setting, which would
> normally disengage the wheels from the motor. So, while a regular car
> can be put into neutral to disable the drive-train before being towed,
> an electric vehicle, like the Smith Newton, cannot. If the electric
> vehicle (while turned off) is towed from the drive wheels, the motor
> will continue to spin as the cooling system remains inactive. Due to the
> friction from the spinning, this could heat the motor to a point where
> it may be completely ruined. According to Bryan Hansel, chief executive
> of Kansas City-based truck maker Smith Electric Vehicles U.S., a new
> electric motor would cost him about $5,000 if it needed to be replaced.
> Who wants to spend $5,000 on top of a towing violation ticket?
>
> To avoid such an inconvenience, there is more than one solution. If you
> are not going to spend the time dropping the driveshaft and towing from
> the drive wheels, then tow from the idler wheels to prevent the motor
> from spinning or ask for a flatbed tow-truck. You can also look into
> electric vehicles whose manufacturers have designed models where this
> nuisance won't be an issue. The Nissan Leaf and Ford Transit Connect EV
> are front-wheel-drive, which prevents any damage that could be done by
> towing. They also are both equipped with a gear box. This allows the
> vehicles to be shifted into a "Park" or "Neutral" setting.
> The first locks the driven wheels, while the latter disconnects the
> driven wheels from the motor.
>
> So if you are in the market for an EV, make sure you do your research
> first. If you are already a lucky owner, watch where you park (or don't
> park) and be aware of the instructions when towing your vehicle
> correctly. [Source: Green Car Advisor (c) Important Media 2011]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
* ** <[email protected]>
*
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·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
The moving van is one approach, if you don't mind the hassle. If you think
you will be in the game for a while, a trailer isn't a bad investment, and
over time, is pretty cheap. My friend owns a moving company...and yet still
has his flatbed trailer that he uses to haul his jeep.

I paid $1100 for a 2 year old 7'x16' 7,000lb flatbed trailer about 10 years
ago, and have never looked back. It gets used about once a month in the
winter, more often in the summer. Registration is minimal, as is
maintenance. Tires are really the most expensive part. Grease and bearings
are cheap.

I recently loaned it to a guy from work, and it came back with 2 new tires
on it. Loaned it to a neighbor, and it came back with new paint on the
fenders, and the dent repaired from the Multiple Sclerosis donation truck
(they denied it, I no longer donate). Have loaned it to select others on
many occasions...it's a great way to gain favors.

YMMV.

Brett
Dennis Miles <[email protected]> wrote:

> Cor,
> You are right about this one. I was considering a car hauling trailer
> until I saw the price $$$ so now I rent a Rental truck, stop by the
> Dumpster
> and pick up a trash mattress, slide in the two 2x12 planks 12 ft long with
> the two 2x4x10 wood screwed and glued to the bottom so it doesn't bend
> much.
> for ramp service, and the 12 volt winch with the 3,000 lb rated cable and
> the 35 ft. power cord with battery clips. (And a fuse!) Back the truck up
> to
> 12 feet from the EV, pull out the two planks and position carefully. tie
> winch to back of truck with short length of chain with hooks, attach
> extended cable to far end of car, roll down drivers side window so you can
> adjust steering wheel as necessary, put mattress in front of truck, clip
> wires to truck battery, use winch to move EV into truck all but last 3 or 4
> feet, push EV in last few feet, disconnect winch wires, cable, chain, place
> in back of truck with two planks under the EV . Always push
> ev to front of truck and put good wheel "Chocks" behind wheels near back of
> truck and screw or nail them to floor of truck. When unloading, remove
> nails or screws, install ramp planks, attach winch pull EV out first few
> feet, then lower to bottom of ramp with winch. Works great and in
> comparison to maintaining and registration fee for trailer it is about
> break
> even for one transport a month...
> * Regards,
> Dennis Lee Miles .COM
> [email protected] <[email protected]>*
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 2:09 PM, Cor van de Water <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > Ehhh, when I read this, I felt sorry for the author.
> > Unqualified claims which often are incorrect, mentioning
> > totally unrelated issues as if a towing violation ticket
> > has anything to do with EV towing at all....
> >
> > There is only one simple suggestion: if you are not sure,
> > then make sure that the towed drive wheels are not on the
> > road. Does not matter if it is on a dolly or another way.
> > (I have towed a BMW *backwards* with its rear drive wheels
> > on the dolly without problem)
> > But you can also just get to know the EV a little better
> > so you know if you can tow without problem (My AC drive
> > S10 truck can be towed as fast as it can be driven, up
> > to 72 MPH without problem, except maybe a speeding ticket)
> > Other vehicles may need disconnection of driveshaft or
> > gearbox set to Neutral or otherwise...
> > Of course flatbed is the safest way, but also the most
> > expensive one to start with.
> >
> > Motors heating up from turning is the first time I hear
> > and the only thing I can imagine is if your DC controller
> > starts feeding the EMF into the battery bank, though that
> > usually only happens when you are already over-revving
> > the motor...
> > usually when the motor turns fast, its internal fan that
> > is typical for a DC motor is also cooling well...
> > So, there are too many unaddressed/wrong/unrelated issues
> > to take this piece very seriously, even though the
> > general suggestion to do your research before buying and
> > transporting a vehicle is sound of course.
> >
> > BTW, one thing they did not mention is box truck or
> > container transport of the EV if it needs to go long distance
> > and in container it can be transported by EV (train).
> >
> > Cor van de Water
> > Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
> > Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> > Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> > Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
> > Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> > Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> > Behalf Of brucedp4
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 6:28 AM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: [EVDL] Know how to tow your EV correctly
> >
> >
> > Ask for a flatbed tow-truck
> >
> > http://gas2.org/2011/02/26/towing-an-electric-car-could-damage-its-motor
> > /
> > ... Feb 26 2011 ...
> > Most electric vehicles do not have a transmission connecting its motor
> > to the driving wheels, nor does it have a neutral setting, which would
> > normally disengage the wheels from the motor. So, while a regular car
> > can be put into neutral to disable the drive-train before being towed,
> > an electric vehicle, like the Smith Newton, cannot. If the electric
> > vehicle (while turned off) is towed from the drive wheels, the motor
> > will continue to spin as the cooling system remains inactive. Due to the
> > friction from the spinning, this could heat the motor to a point where
> > it may be completely ruined. According to Bryan Hansel, chief executive
> > of Kansas City-based truck maker Smith Electric Vehicles U.S., a new
> > electric motor would cost him about $5,000 if it needed to be replaced.
> > Who wants to spend $5,000 on top of a towing violation ticket?
> >
> > To avoid such an inconvenience, there is more than one solution. If you
> > are not going to spend the time dropping the driveshaft and towing from
> > the drive wheels, then tow from the idler wheels to prevent the motor
> > from spinning or ask for a flatbed tow-truck. You can also look into
> > electric vehicles whose manufacturers have designed models where this
> > nuisance won't be an issue. The Nissan Leaf and Ford Transit Connect EV
> > are front-wheel-drive, which prevents any damage that could be done by
> > towing. They also are both equipped with a gear box. This allows the
> > vehicles to be shifted into a "Park" or "Neutral" setting.
> > The first locks the driven wheels, while the latter disconnects the
> > driven wheels from the motor.
> >
> > So if you are in the market for an EV, make sure you do your research
> > first. If you are already a lucky owner, watch where you park (or don't
> > park) and be aware of the instructions when towing your vehicle
> > correctly. [Source: Green Car Advisor (c) Important Media 2011]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> * ** <[email protected]>
> *
> -------------- next part --------------
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> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20110303/c971dd10/attachment.html
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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>
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·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Trailers are awesome -- they convert my 1991 Toyota Camry (30+ MPG) into
an SUV/truck that gets over 20 MPG (and is *paid for* long ago). Of
course it doesn't tow at 65/75 mph (more like 45-55mph).

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Brett Davis
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 12:24 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Know how to tow your EV correctly

The moving van is one approach, if you don't mind the hassle. If you
think
you will be in the game for a while, a trailer isn't a bad investment,
and
over time, is pretty cheap. My friend owns a moving company...and yet
still
has his flatbed trailer that he uses to haul his jeep.

I paid $1100 for a 2 year old 7'x16' 7,000lb flatbed trailer about 10
years
ago, and have never looked back. It gets used about once a month in the
winter, more often in the summer. Registration is minimal, as is
maintenance. Tires are really the most expensive part. Grease and
bearings
are cheap.

I recently loaned it to a guy from work, and it came back with 2 new
tires
on it. Loaned it to a neighbor, and it came back with new paint on the
fenders, and the dent repaired from the Multiple Sclerosis donation
truck
(they denied it, I no longer donate). Have loaned it to select others
on
many occasions...it's a great way to gain favors.

YMMV.

Brett
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 10:12 AM, Dennis Miles <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Cor,
> You are right about this one. I was considering a car hauling
trailer
> until I saw the price $$$ so now I rent a Rental truck, stop by the
> Dumpster
> and pick up a trash mattress, slide in the two 2x12 planks 12 ft long
with
> the two 2x4x10 wood screwed and glued to the bottom so it doesn't bend
> much.
> for ramp service, and the 12 volt winch with the 3,000 lb rated cable
and
> the 35 ft. power cord with battery clips. (And a fuse!) Back the truck
up
> to
> 12 feet from the EV, pull out the two planks and position carefully.
tie
> winch to back of truck with short length of chain with hooks, attach
> extended cable to far end of car, roll down drivers side window so you
can
> adjust steering wheel as necessary, put mattress in front of truck,
clip
> wires to truck battery, use winch to move EV into truck all but last 3
or 4
> feet, push EV in last few feet, disconnect winch wires, cable, chain,
place
> in back of truck with two planks under the EV . Always push
> ev to front of truck and put good wheel "Chocks" behind wheels near
back of
> truck and screw or nail them to floor of truck. When unloading,
remove
> nails or screws, install ramp planks, attach winch pull EV out first
few
> feet, then lower to bottom of ramp with winch. Works great and in
> comparison to maintaining and registration fee for trailer it is about
> break
> even for one transport a month...
> * Regards,
> Dennis Lee Miles .COM
> [email protected] <[email protected]>*
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 2:09 PM, Cor van de Water <[email protected]>
>
wrote:
>
> > Ehhh, when I read this, I felt sorry for the author.
> > Unqualified claims which often are incorrect, mentioning
> > totally unrelated issues as if a towing violation ticket
> > has anything to do with EV towing at all....
> >
> > There is only one simple suggestion: if you are not sure,
> > then make sure that the towed drive wheels are not on the
> > road. Does not matter if it is on a dolly or another way.
> > (I have towed a BMW *backwards* with its rear drive wheels
> > on the dolly without problem)
> > But you can also just get to know the EV a little better
> > so you know if you can tow without problem (My AC drive
> > S10 truck can be towed as fast as it can be driven, up
> > to 72 MPH without problem, except maybe a speeding ticket)
> > Other vehicles may need disconnection of driveshaft or
> > gearbox set to Neutral or otherwise...
> > Of course flatbed is the safest way, but also the most
> > expensive one to start with.
> >
> > Motors heating up from turning is the first time I hear
> > and the only thing I can imagine is if your DC controller
> > starts feeding the EMF into the battery bank, though that
> > usually only happens when you are already over-revving
> > the motor...
> > usually when the motor turns fast, its internal fan that
> > is typical for a DC motor is also cooling well...
> > So, there are too many unaddressed/wrong/unrelated issues
> > to take this piece very seriously, even though the
> > general suggestion to do your research before buying and
> > transporting a vehicle is sound of course.
> >
> > BTW, one thing they did not mention is box truck or
> > container transport of the EV if it needs to go long distance
> > and in container it can be transported by EV (train).
> >
> > Cor van de Water
> > Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
> > Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> > Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> > Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
> > Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> > Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On
> > Behalf Of brucedp4
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 6:28 AM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: [EVDL] Know how to tow your EV correctly
> >
> >
> > Ask for a flatbed tow-truck
> >
> >
http://gas2.org/2011/02/26/towing-an-electric-car-could-damage-its-motor
> > /
> > ... Feb 26 2011 ...
> > Most electric vehicles do not have a transmission connecting its
motor
> > to the driving wheels, nor does it have a neutral setting, which
would
> > normally disengage the wheels from the motor. So, while a regular
car
> > can be put into neutral to disable the drive-train before being
towed,
> > an electric vehicle, like the Smith Newton, cannot. If the electric
> > vehicle (while turned off) is towed from the drive wheels, the motor
> > will continue to spin as the cooling system remains inactive. Due to
the
> > friction from the spinning, this could heat the motor to a point
where
> > it may be completely ruined. According to Bryan Hansel, chief
executive
> > of Kansas City-based truck maker Smith Electric Vehicles U.S., a new
> > electric motor would cost him about $5,000 if it needed to be
replaced.
> > Who wants to spend $5,000 on top of a towing violation ticket?
> >
> > To avoid such an inconvenience, there is more than one solution. If
you
> > are not going to spend the time dropping the driveshaft and towing
from
> > the drive wheels, then tow from the idler wheels to prevent the
motor
> > from spinning or ask for a flatbed tow-truck. You can also look into
> > electric vehicles whose manufacturers have designed models where
this
> > nuisance won't be an issue. The Nissan Leaf and Ford Transit Connect
EV
> > are front-wheel-drive, which prevents any damage that could be done
by
> > towing. They also are both equipped with a gear box. This allows the
> > vehicles to be shifted into a "Park" or "Neutral" setting.
> > The first locks the driven wheels, while the latter disconnects the
> > driven wheels from the motor.
> >
> > So if you are in the market for an EV, make sure you do your
research
> > first. If you are already a lucky owner, watch where you park (or
don't
> > park) and be aware of the instructions when towing your vehicle
> > correctly. [Source: Green Car Advisor (c) Important Media
2011]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> * ** <[email protected]>
> *
> -------------- next part --------------
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ttachment.html
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> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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>
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_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
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·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Dear Sir/ Maa'm
Please don't send anymore email regarding any kinds of battery or whatever =

product you have. It has been years that I am receiving these emails for yo=
u. I =

put them in spam and I still recieve them. I am not interesed.
Thank you





________________________________
From: Dennis Miles <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Thu, March 3, 2011 9:12:49 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Know how to tow your EV correctly

Cor,
You are right about this one. I was considering a car hauling trailer
until I saw the price $$$ so now I rent a Rental truck, stop by the Dumpster
and pick up a trash mattress, slide in the two 2x12 planks 12 ft long with
the two 2x4x10 wood screwed and glued to the bottom so it doesn't bend much.
for ramp service, and the 12 volt winch with the 3,000 lb rated cable and
the 35 ft. power cord with battery clips. (And a fuse!) Back the truck up to
12 feet from the EV, pull out the two planks and position carefully. tie
winch to back of truck with short length of chain with hooks, attach
extended cable to far end of car, roll down drivers side window so you can
adjust steering wheel as necessary, put mattress in front of truck, clip
wires to truck battery, use winch to move EV into truck all but last 3 or 4
feet, push EV in last few feet, disconnect winch wires, cable, chain, place
in back of truck with two planks under the EV . Always push
ev to front of truck and put good wheel "Chocks" behind wheels near back of
truck and screw or nail them to floor of truck. When unloading, remove
nails or screws, install ramp planks, attach winch pull EV out first few
feet, then lower to bottom of ramp with winch. Works great and in
comparison to maintaining and registration fee for trailer it is about break
even for one transport a month...
* Regards,
Dennis Lee Miles .COM
[email protected] <[email protected]>*
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Cor van de Water <[email protected]> wrote:

> Ehhh, when I read this, I felt sorry for the author.
> Unqualified claims which often are incorrect, mentioning
> totally unrelated issues as if a towing violation ticket
> has anything to do with EV towing at all....
>
> There is only one simple suggestion: if you are not sure,
> then make sure that the towed drive wheels are not on the
> road. Does not matter if it is on a dolly or another way.
> (I have towed a BMW *backwards* with its rear drive wheels
> on the dolly without problem)
> But you can also just get to know the EV a little better
> so you know if you can tow without problem (My AC drive
> S10 truck can be towed as fast as it can be driven, up
> to 72 MPH without problem, except maybe a speeding ticket)
> Other vehicles may need disconnection of driveshaft or
> gearbox set to Neutral or otherwise...
> Of course flatbed is the safest way, but also the most
> expensive one to start with.
>
> Motors heating up from turning is the first time I hear
> and the only thing I can imagine is if your DC controller
> starts feeding the EMF into the battery bank, though that
> usually only happens when you are already over-revving
> the motor...
> usually when the motor turns fast, its internal fan that
> is typical for a DC motor is also cooling well...
> So, there are too many unaddressed/wrong/unrelated issues
> to take this piece very seriously, even though the
> general suggestion to do your research before buying and
> transporting a vehicle is sound of course.
>
> BTW, one thing they did not mention is box truck or
> container transport of the EV if it needs to go long distance
> and in container it can be transported by EV (train).
>
> Cor van de Water
> Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of brucedp4
> Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 6:28 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [EVDL] Know how to tow your EV correctly
>
>
> Ask for a flatbed tow-truck
>
> http://gas2.org/2011/02/26/towing-an-electric-car-could-damage-its-motor
> /
> ... Feb 26 2011 ...
> Most electric vehicles do not have a transmission connecting its motor
> to the driving wheels, nor does it have a neutral setting, which would
> normally disengage the wheels from the motor. So, while a regular car
> can be put into neutral to disable the drive-train before being towed,
> an electric vehicle, like the Smith Newton, cannot. If the electric
> vehicle (while turned off) is towed from the drive wheels, the motor
> will continue to spin as the cooling system remains inactive. Due to the
> friction from the spinning, this could heat the motor to a point where
> it may be completely ruined. According to Bryan Hansel, chief executive
> of Kansas City-based truck maker Smith Electric Vehicles U.S., a new
> electric motor would cost him about $5,000 if it needed to be replaced.
> Who wants to spend $5,000 on top of a towing violation ticket?
>
> To avoid such an inconvenience, there is more than one solution. If you
> are not going to spend the time dropping the driveshaft and towing from
> the drive wheels, then tow from the idler wheels to prevent the motor
> from spinning or ask for a flatbed tow-truck. You can also look into
> electric vehicles whose manufacturers have designed models where this
> nuisance won't be an issue. The Nissan Leaf and Ford Transit Connect EV
> are front-wheel-drive, which prevents any damage that could be done by
> towing. They also are both equipped with a gear box. This allows the
> vehicles to be shifted into a "Park" or "Neutral" setting.
> The first locks the driven wheels, while the latter disconnects the
> driven wheels from the motor.
>
> So if you are in the market for an EV, make sure you do your research
> first. If you are already a lucky owner, watch where you park (or don't
> park) and be aware of the instructions when towing your vehicle
> correctly. [Source: Green Car Advisor (c) Important Media =
2011]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


-- =

* ** <[email protected]>
*
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=

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Discussion Starter #12
Dear Sir/ Maa'm
Please don't send anymore email regarding any kinds of battery or whatever =

product you have. It has been years that I am receiving these emails for yo=
u. I =

put them in spam and I still recieve them. I am not interesed.
Thank you





________________________________
From: Brett Davis <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Thu, March 3, 2011 10:24:28 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Know how to tow your EV correctly

The moving van is one approach, if you don't mind the hassle. If you thi=
nk
you will be in the game for a while, a trailer isn't a bad investment, and
over time, is pretty cheap. My friend owns a moving company...and yet st=
ill
has his flatbed trailer that he uses to haul his jeep.

I paid $1100 for a 2 year old 7'x16' 7,000lb flatbed trailer about 10 years
ago, and have never looked back. It gets used about once a month in the
winter, more often in the summer. Registration is minimal, as is
maintenance. Tires are really the most expensive part. Grease and bea=
rings
are cheap.

I recently loaned it to a guy from work, and it came back with 2 new tires
on it. Loaned it to a neighbor, and it came back with new paint on the
fenders, and the dent repaired from the Multiple Sclerosis donation truck
(they denied it, I no longer donate). Have loaned it to select others on
many occasions...it's a great way to gain favors.

YMMV.

Brett
Dennis Miles <[email protected]> wrote:

> Cor,
> You are right about this one. I was considering a car hauling trailer
> until I saw the price $$$ so now I rent a Rental truck, stop by the
> Dumpster
> and pick up a trash mattress, slide in the two 2x12 planks 12 ft long with
> the two 2x4x10 wood screwed and glued to the bottom so it doesn't bend
> much.
> for ramp service, and the 12 volt winch with the 3,000 lb rated cable and
> the 35 ft. power cord with battery clips. (And a fuse!) Back the truck up
> to
> 12 feet from the EV, pull out the two planks and position carefully. tie
> winch to back of truck with short length of chain with hooks, attach
> extended cable to far end of car, roll down drivers side window so you can
> adjust steering wheel as necessary, put mattress in front of truck, clip
> wires to truck battery, use winch to move EV into truck all but last 3 or=
4
> feet, push EV in last few feet, disconnect winch wires, cable, chain, pla=
ce
> in back of truck with two planks under the EV . Always push
> ev to front of truck and put good wheel "Chocks" behind wheels near back =
of
> truck and screw or nail them to floor of truck. When unloading, remove
> nails or screws, install ramp planks, attach winch pull EV out first few
> feet, then lower to bottom of ramp with winch. Works great and in
> comparison to maintaining and registration fee for trailer it is about
> break
> even for one transport a month...
> * Regards,
> Dennis Lee Miles .COM
> [email protected] <[email protected]>*
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 2:09 PM, Cor van de Water <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > Ehhh, when I read this, I felt sorry for the author.
> > Unqualified claims which often are incorrect, mentioning
> > totally unrelated issues as if a towing violation ticket
> > has anything to do with EV towing at all....
> >
> > There is only one simple suggestion: if you are not sure,
> > then make sure that the towed drive wheels are not on the
> > road. Does not matter if it is on a dolly or another way.
> > (I have towed a BMW *backwards* with its rear drive wheels
> > on the dolly without problem)
> > But you can also just get to know the EV a little better
> > so you know if you can tow without problem (My AC drive
> > S10 truck can be towed as fast as it can be driven, up
> > to 72 MPH without problem, except maybe a speeding ticket)
> > Other vehicles may need disconnection of driveshaft or
> > gearbox set to Neutral or otherwise...
> > Of course flatbed is the safest way, but also the most
> > expensive one to start with.
> >
> > Motors heating up from turning is the first time I hear
> > and the only thing I can imagine is if your DC controller
> > starts feeding the EMF into the battery bank, though that
> > usually only happens when you are already over-revving
> > the motor...
> > usually when the motor turns fast, its internal fan that
> > is typical for a DC motor is also cooling well...
> > So, there are too many unaddressed/wrong/unrelated issues
> > to take this piece very seriously, even though the
> > general suggestion to do your research before buying and
> > transporting a vehicle is sound of course.
> >
> > BTW, one thing they did not mention is box truck or
> > container transport of the EV if it needs to go long distance
> > and in container it can be transported by EV (train).
> >
> > Cor van de Water
> > Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
> > Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> > Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> > Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
> > Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> > Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> > Behalf Of brucedp4
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 6:28 AM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: [EVDL] Know how to tow your EV correctly
> >
> >
> > Ask for a flatbed tow-truck
> >
> > http://gas2.org/2011/02/26/towing-an-electric-car-could-damage-its-motor
> > /
> > ... Feb 26 2011 ...
> > Most electric vehicles do not have a transmission connecting its motor
> > to the driving wheels, nor does it have a neutral setting, which would
> > normally disengage the wheels from the motor. So, while a regular car
> > can be put into neutral to disable the drive-train before being towed,
> > an electric vehicle, like the Smith Newton, cannot. If the electric
> > vehicle (while turned off) is towed from the drive wheels, the motor
> > will continue to spin as the cooling system remains inactive. Due to the
> > friction from the spinning, this could heat the motor to a point where
> > it may be completely ruined. According to Bryan Hansel, chief executive
> > of Kansas City-based truck maker Smith Electric Vehicles U.S., a new
> > electric motor would cost him about $5,000 if it needed to be replaced.
> > Who wants to spend $5,000 on top of a towing violation ticket?
> >
> > To avoid such an inconvenience, there is more than one solution. If you
> > are not going to spend the time dropping the driveshaft and towing from
> > the drive wheels, then tow from the idler wheels to prevent the motor
> > from spinning or ask for a flatbed tow-truck. You can also look into
> > electric vehicles whose manufacturers have designed models where this
> > nuisance won't be an issue. The Nissan Leaf and Ford Transit Connect EV
> > are front-wheel-drive, which prevents any damage that could be done by
> > towing. They also are both equipped with a gear box. This allows the
> > vehicles to be shifted into a "Park" or "Neutral" setting.
> > The first locks the driven wheels, while the latter disconnects the
> > driven wheels from the motor.
> >
> > So if you are in the market for an EV, make sure you do your research
> > first. If you are already a lucky owner, watch where you park (or don't
> > park) and be aware of the instructions when towing your vehicle
> > correctly. [Source: Green Car Advisor (c) Important Medi=
a 2011]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> * ** <[email protected]>
> *
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