Hello Adrian,
My next battery pack will be a Li-Ion module pack that is assembly in either
single, 4 cell or 8 cell with BMS from ManizanitaMicro.com. Rich balances,
assemble and test each unit.
The PFC-50B charger I bought from him 8 years ago which I have no problems
with charging and balancing a T-145 pack that lasted 8 years in my EV and is
still going strong in a 2nd EV.
One time I broke the voltage adjustment pot stem and he sent me a new
replacement and adjustment tool in two days for free.
When you upload the Manizanita site, just click Lithium.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adrian DeLeon" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 10:30 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Li cell supplier wanted!
> I'm seriously considering a switch from FLA to a Li battery pack. Can
> anyone recommend a good supplier in the Pacific NW (Oregon) area?
>
> My current 114V pack of T-125 batteries is on its way out, and with the
> replacements @ $145/ea ($2,755) I'm hoping I can find a Li pack that lasts
> at least 5 years for maybe 2x the price. I'm hesitant to purchase another
> lead pack as a bridge near me will be closing for a while, adding 10 miles
> to my standard 15 mile trip (which I can barely make now). Even with a new
> pack I could only get 25-28 miles (in the summer) before voltage sag
> became an issue.
>
> 114V, 100AHr equates to 36 cells.
> CALB = $4860
> TS = $4500
>
> Add $500 for a mini-BMS system to prevent overcharge/discharge and the
> total is $5360. The only big question is: Will they last 4-5 years???
>
> -Adrian
>
>
> RUMORS I've heard:
>
> - TS strapping hardware is better built than that of CALB
> - CALB cells are a bit stronger (electrically/chemically) than TS
> - The "other" brand of large format Li cells is junk
> - Kokam and other name brand cells are $$$$ or impossible to get
> - Watering floodies sucks (OK, that's not a rumor)
> - All battery salesmen are out to cheat you
>
> The MATH:
>
> 1987 VW Cabriolet @ 114V. 3,600 pound curb weight. Zilla 1K-LV controller.
> A typical 14 mile trip uses ~4KWHr (measured with a Kill-A-Watt meter).
> Typical recharge time is ~2.5 hours with a PFC-20. Timeout after reaching
> charge voltage is 30 mins, so approx. 2 hours @ 20A for the bulk charge.
>
> 4,000 WHr/14miles = 285 WHr/mile
> 20A * 2Hr * 114V = 4560WHr 2560WHr/14miles = 326 WHr/mile
>
> Call it 300WHr/mile for typical driving - 30-40MPH, hilly roads, final
> drive home is 45 seconds of 200A from the batteries to climb a moderate
> hill.
>
> To make 24 miles (standard 14 plus the extra 10 while the bridge is
> closed) I'd need 300WHr/mile * 24miles or 7.2KWHr of energy. Limiting to
> 70% DOD makes that 10.3KWHr, or 90AHr cells @ 114V. Alternatively that
> would be 71 AHr @ 144V.
>
> My car currently cruises at 50-120A depending on speed and grade, and
> takes 150-200A for "normal" acceleration. I have one short hill that
> requires 250A to maintain 15MPH. I almost never hit 300A unless I know I'm
> doing a short 6 mile run for groceries.
>
> Using this data, 100AHr cells should function nicely. Typical 0.5C to 1.3C
> discharge, with < 1 minute bursts of 2C. For 114V I'd use 36 cells @ 3.2V
> nominal. I could go to 144V (46 cells) with a change of DC/DC and heater
> relays. Absolute limit would be ~200V/3.6V = 55 cells (176V) based on the
> "nominal" 156V rating of the Zilla-LV.
>
> A 114V pack would drop my curb weight by 980 pounds to ~2617 pounds (2687
> pounds @ 144V)! I assume that will have a very positive effect on
> acceleration and current draw going up hills... Is the era of Li finally
> here?
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
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My next battery pack will be a Li-Ion module pack that is assembly in either
single, 4 cell or 8 cell with BMS from ManizanitaMicro.com. Rich balances,
assemble and test each unit.
The PFC-50B charger I bought from him 8 years ago which I have no problems
with charging and balancing a T-145 pack that lasted 8 years in my EV and is
still going strong in a 2nd EV.
One time I broke the voltage adjustment pot stem and he sent me a new
replacement and adjustment tool in two days for free.
When you upload the Manizanita site, just click Lithium.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adrian DeLeon" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 10:30 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Li cell supplier wanted!
> I'm seriously considering a switch from FLA to a Li battery pack. Can
> anyone recommend a good supplier in the Pacific NW (Oregon) area?
>
> My current 114V pack of T-125 batteries is on its way out, and with the
> replacements @ $145/ea ($2,755) I'm hoping I can find a Li pack that lasts
> at least 5 years for maybe 2x the price. I'm hesitant to purchase another
> lead pack as a bridge near me will be closing for a while, adding 10 miles
> to my standard 15 mile trip (which I can barely make now). Even with a new
> pack I could only get 25-28 miles (in the summer) before voltage sag
> became an issue.
>
> 114V, 100AHr equates to 36 cells.
> CALB = $4860
> TS = $4500
>
> Add $500 for a mini-BMS system to prevent overcharge/discharge and the
> total is $5360. The only big question is: Will they last 4-5 years???
>
> -Adrian
>
>
> RUMORS I've heard:
>
> - TS strapping hardware is better built than that of CALB
> - CALB cells are a bit stronger (electrically/chemically) than TS
> - The "other" brand of large format Li cells is junk
> - Kokam and other name brand cells are $$$$ or impossible to get
> - Watering floodies sucks (OK, that's not a rumor)
> - All battery salesmen are out to cheat you
>
> The MATH:
>
> 1987 VW Cabriolet @ 114V. 3,600 pound curb weight. Zilla 1K-LV controller.
> A typical 14 mile trip uses ~4KWHr (measured with a Kill-A-Watt meter).
> Typical recharge time is ~2.5 hours with a PFC-20. Timeout after reaching
> charge voltage is 30 mins, so approx. 2 hours @ 20A for the bulk charge.
>
> 4,000 WHr/14miles = 285 WHr/mile
> 20A * 2Hr * 114V = 4560WHr 2560WHr/14miles = 326 WHr/mile
>
> Call it 300WHr/mile for typical driving - 30-40MPH, hilly roads, final
> drive home is 45 seconds of 200A from the batteries to climb a moderate
> hill.
>
> To make 24 miles (standard 14 plus the extra 10 while the bridge is
> closed) I'd need 300WHr/mile * 24miles or 7.2KWHr of energy. Limiting to
> 70% DOD makes that 10.3KWHr, or 90AHr cells @ 114V. Alternatively that
> would be 71 AHr @ 144V.
>
> My car currently cruises at 50-120A depending on speed and grade, and
> takes 150-200A for "normal" acceleration. I have one short hill that
> requires 250A to maintain 15MPH. I almost never hit 300A unless I know I'm
> doing a short 6 mile run for groceries.
>
> Using this data, 100AHr cells should function nicely. Typical 0.5C to 1.3C
> discharge, with < 1 minute bursts of 2C. For 114V I'd use 36 cells @ 3.2V
> nominal. I could go to 144V (46 cells) with a change of DC/DC and heater
> relays. Absolute limit would be ~200V/3.6V = 55 cells (176V) based on the
> "nominal" 156V rating of the Zilla-LV.
>
> A 114V pack would drop my curb weight by 980 pounds to ~2617 pounds (2687
> pounds @ 144V)! I assume that will have a very positive effect on
> acceleration and current draw going up hills... Is the era of Li finally
> here?
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
