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Discussion Starter #1
Hi List



I have a 1929 Ford coupe that is looking for an engine. You can see it at

www.isaaks.com/29Ford/1929Ford.htm



The problem is I am not knowledgeable about DC motors, controllers, and
batteries, etc. From the little I have read, it appears there are many
options to consider depending on ones needs, and even then it's not clear
which is the best way to go. As for needs, this is what I think I'd like:



1. Travel will be local, no more than 70 miles per trip. Probably
closer to 10 to 20 miles or less most of the time.
2. I would like the car to be quite peppy and quick off the line
(traffic light). I don't plan on racing it.
3. I really do not need top speed, as driving will be pretty well
contained to town speed limits, generally less than 50 MPH.



So is it reasonable to consider the following?



1. A warp9 DC motor --- direct connect to drive shaft (no clutch or
transmission).
2. A zilla 1K controller
3. lithium Ion batteries from A123 systems for example?



What might be some alternatives??



All comments and suggestions are welcome.

Thank you

Edward Isaaks




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Discussion Starter #2
Edward,

What a clean looking '29 Ford coupe. You have a nice project on tap
here. Your proposed large DC motor and direct drive will likely work
out well with a strong controller (Zilla 1K). Look to see that the rear
axle is a low enough ratio to get moving well, and not too low to ever
overspeed the motor.

My 2 cents would be to stick with lead acid batteries now, and keep your
eye on Lithium Ion batteries for the future. You could shoot for a
range of 35 miles, and stop and charge to get your 70 mile max. trip out
of the way. That may keep your battery weight down to make the direct
drive work well.

Alan Brinkman

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of isaaks
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 9:50 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [EVDL] Looking for a Conversion Kit for a 1929 Ford.

Hi List



I have a 1929 Ford coupe that is looking for an engine. You can see it
at

www.isaaks.com/29Ford/1929Ford.htm



The problem is I am not knowledgeable about DC motors, controllers, and
batteries, etc. From the little I have read, it appears there are many
options to consider depending on ones needs, and even then it's not
clear
which is the best way to go. As for needs, this is what I think I'd
like:



1. Travel will be local, no more than 70 miles per trip. Probably
closer to 10 to 20 miles or less most of the time.
2. I would like the car to be quite peppy and quick off the line
(traffic light). I don't plan on racing it.
3. I really do not need top speed, as driving will be pretty well
contained to town speed limits, generally less than 50 MPH.



So is it reasonable to consider the following?



1. A warp9 DC motor --- direct connect to drive shaft (no clutch
or
transmission).
2. A zilla 1K controller
3. lithium Ion batteries from A123 systems for example?



What might be some alternatives??



All comments and suggestions are welcome.

Thank you

Edward Isaaks




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Discussion Starter #3
A Warp 9 with a Zilla sounds good. As for batteries, what's your budget?


----- Original Message -----
From: "isaaks" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 12:49 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Looking for a Conversion Kit for a 1929 Ford.


> Hi List
>
>
>
> I have a 1929 Ford coupe that is looking for an engine. You can see it at
>
> www.isaaks.com/29Ford/1929Ford.htm
>

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Discussion Starter #4
If you're thinking WarP9 then think actually a TransWarp9. Its the same motor except that it comes with a 1.380 hardened splined drive shaft with a Turbo400 shorty Tailshaft and industry standard 1350 universal slip yoke, right on the motor.

What rear end do you have it now? If you have 24" tall tires a 4.56 gear set will top you out at 78 mph at 5000 rpm on the TransWarP9. But with only 300 ft-lbs of torque (my guess) through a Z1K it may or may not be as peppy as you desire. The next step would be to consider a lower gear ratio and give up top end speed, or either go with a TransWarP11 / Z1K combo or a TransWarP9 / Z2K combo. The next step up for screamin' fun would be the TransWarP11 and Z2K controller.

Keep in mind the 11" motor will top out at 4000 rpm. So with same 24" tires with a 4.11 gear set would take you to 70 mph. Someone with more experience would have to comment on the peppiness of a TransWarp11 / Z1K with anything less than a 4.11 rearend. It would also depend on the weight of your completed rig.

Sounds like an awesome project. My buddy is working on building up an old model A and I almost have hime talked into going electric. We'll see how his project shapes. I may wind up kicking a Model A Gasser around the track with my electric Pinto ;-)

----- Original Message -----
From: isaaks <[email protected]>
Date: Tuesday, August 7, 2007 8:58 am
Subject: [EVDL] Looking for a Conversion Kit for a 1929 Ford.
To: [email protected]

> Hi List
>
>
>
> I have a 1929 Ford coupe that is looking for an engine. You can
> see it at
>
> www.isaaks.com/29Ford/1929Ford.htm
>

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Discussion Starter #5
You would be happier with 2 8" than 1 9" I think.

assuming you have a typical 3.55:1 and 24" dia tire (840 rotations per mile)

the 840rpm for 60mph is ony 3k on the motor so speed is good, but...
assuming 2500lb finished weight 1200lb.ft of torque is needed for
1/2 g launch (rather anemic)
1200/3.55 is 338 lb.ft from the motor. or over 1000 amps in the
motor loop

so .7G launch (brisk) is out of the question with this rear end

ok consider a 4.11:1 3500 rpm at 60
1/2G 291 lb.ft right at 900Amps, ok zilla will do this for a few
seconds.
.7G is 425lb.ft again to many amps

So either you need a rather non-standard rear end ratio of about 6:1
or two motors to start off the line,


Series/Parallel background info:
Starting in series is same amps double the torque until a certain rpm is
reached taking advantage of the amps the controller can put out.
Remebering that the voltage limit on an advanced motor is about 170V and
because we are dividing the voltage in half between the motor, we are
letting the controller put out 300V at 1000 ams. Something you can't do
with one commutator in the circuit.
The available torque drops as rpm climbs so then switch to parallel
mode. Now we limit each motor to 170V still but split the amps the
controller can deliver between the two motors so you have twice the
power that one motor would give. You can't do parallel off the line
because the amp limits the torque so you would need a zilla 2K to push
the motors.


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Discussion Starter #6
Hey Jeff

I'd say I'd confirm your suggestion here. I'd change
one thing though with limiting the motors to below 160
volts so that they stay below a possible flashover
point. Better safe than sorry 8^)

Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric

> Remebering that the voltage limit on an advanced
> motor is about 170V and
> because we are dividing the voltage in half between
> the motor, we are
> letting the controller put out 300V at 1000 ams.
> Something you can't do
> with one commutator in the circuit.
> The available torque drops as rpm climbs so then
> switch to parallel
> mode. Now we limit each motor to 170V still but
> split the amps the
> controller can deliver between the two motors so you
> have twice the
> power that one motor would give. You can't do
> parallel off the line
> because the amp limits the torque so you would need
> a zilla 2K to push
> the motors.



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Discussion Starter #7
What am I missing here? Looks to me like you're considering a big buck dual
motor and high current controller setup just to get decent acceleration,
when a transmission would be a much more effective solution by getting the
motor RPM up to where the motor load is a better match for the batteries.
What would this look like off the line with a modest 3 to 1 first gear
reduction in there? Three times the torque at the rear wheels for the cost
of a bone yard trans? Then what would the acceleration be with a 1K Zilla
and at least AGM's? I'm really having a hard time understanding the appeal
of running a DC motor without a transmission for anything short of a super
light weight lithium powered dragster. I've got to be missing something.

Marty

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Looking for a Conversion Kit for a 1929 Ford.


> You would be happier with 2 8" than 1 9" I think.
>
> assuming you have a typical 3.55:1 and 24" dia tire (840 rotations per
> mile)
>
> the 840rpm for 60mph is ony 3k on the motor so speed is good, but...
> assuming 2500lb finished weight 1200lb.ft of torque is needed for
> 1/2 g launch (rather anemic)
> 1200/3.55 is 338 lb.ft from the motor. or over 1000 amps in the
> motor loop
>
> so .7G launch (brisk) is out of the question with this rear end
>
> ok consider a 4.11:1 3500 rpm at 60
> 1/2G 291 lb.ft right at 900Amps, ok zilla will do this for a few
> seconds.
> .7G is 425lb.ft again to many amps
>
> So either you need a rather non-standard rear end ratio of about 6:1
> or two motors to start off the line,


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Discussion Starter #8
Hey everyone,

There is something really elegant about the two motor solution but you're
right, Marty -- a single 9" motor with Z1K and transmission fits the bill
here, too. For Joule Injected I went with the Z2K and two inline Warp 9s and
I'm very happy with it. One of my goals was to eliminate the potential
failure point of the transmission for drag racing. That was accomplished,
but now I have the very real (already occurred) failure point of the
coupling. More specifically, the keystock likes to shear in two. Of course
this can be remedied, but not without something like a splined interface
between the two motors and also back to the driveshaft. I see Mike already
mentioned the TransWarp9, but I don't believe the tailshaft comes splined,
too.

No doubt about it, it's costly to go direct drive with high amps:
$1,700 for additional motor (depending on what you get)
$2,000 premium for upgrade to Z2K
$350 for reversing contactor pair
$350 (might as well throw in the series/parallel contactor!)

That's $4,400 so far, as compared to the cost of a Z1K with single 9". Of
course you need to factor in the cost of the tranny and adapter plate.
Neither option is a drop in, so there are other costs as well.

If you do decide to go with the dual motor setup, this was the way I wired
them for series/parallel and single motor reverse:
http://www.jouleinjected.com/joule-injected-single-rev-circuit.pdf
I just put this up on the site, since it was being discussed recently.

The '29 Ford looks like a fun project! Keep us posted on what you decide to
do.

Matt Graham
300V Nissan 240SX "Joule Injected"
http://www.jouleinjected.com

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Marty Hewes
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 10:35 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Looking for a Conversion Kit for a 1929 Ford.

What am I missing here? Looks to me like you're considering a big buck dual

motor and high current controller setup just to get decent acceleration,
when a transmission would be a much more effective solution by getting the
motor RPM up to where the motor load is a better match for the batteries.
What would this look like off the line with a modest 3 to 1 first gear
reduction in there? Three times the torque at the rear wheels for the cost
of a bone yard trans? Then what would the acceleration be with a 1K Zilla
and at least AGM's? I'm really having a hard time understanding the appeal
of running a DC motor without a transmission for anything short of a super
light weight lithium powered dragster. I've got to be missing something.

Marty

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Looking for a Conversion Kit for a 1929 Ford.


> You would be happier with 2 8" than 1 9" I think.
>
> assuming you have a typical 3.55:1 and 24" dia tire (840 rotations per
> mile)
>
> the 840rpm for 60mph is ony 3k on the motor so speed is good, but...
> assuming 2500lb finished weight 1200lb.ft of torque is needed for
> 1/2 g launch (rather anemic)
> 1200/3.55 is 338 lb.ft from the motor. or over 1000 amps in the
> motor loop
>
> so .7G launch (brisk) is out of the question with this rear end
>
> ok consider a 4.11:1 3500 rpm at 60
> 1/2G 291 lb.ft right at 900Amps, ok zilla will do this for a few
> seconds.
> .7G is 425lb.ft again to many amps
>
> So either you need a rather non-standard rear end ratio of about 6:1
> or two motors to start off the line,


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Discussion Starter #9
Actually I agree that dual motor is a nice solution, that's why I ordered up
a Zilla with a dual motor switching option. But I was thinking of dual 8"
plus a transmission to get some serious acceleration :). But getting two
motors tied together appears to be difficult enough to get done, and
batteries with enough guts to provide the kW are expensive enough, that I
put that plan off until I build something higher performance than my Jeep. I
picked up a single 9" for it. I briefly considered two motors in the Jeep,
one direct drive to the front axle, one to the rear, then I wouldn't need to
tie them together. With the motors in parallel, it would be pretty cool
traction control. If a wheel spun, the RPM of that motor would increase,
and therefore the current through that motor would drop, giving more to the
other motor.

Marty

----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Graham" <[email protected]>
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Looking for a Conversion Kit for a 1929 Ford.


> Hey everyone,
>
> There is something really elegant about the two motor solution but you're
> right, Marty -- a single 9" motor with Z1K and transmission fits the bill
> here, too. For Joule Injected I went with the Z2K and two inline Warp 9s
> and
> I'm very happy with it. One of my goals was to eliminate the potential
> failure point of the transmission for drag racing. That was accomplished,
> but now I have the very real (already occurred) failure point of the
> coupling. More specifically, the keystock likes to shear in two. Of course
> this can be remedied, but not without something like a splined interface
> between the two motors and also back to the driveshaft. I see Mike already
> mentioned the TransWarp9, but I don't believe the tailshaft comes splined,
> too.
>
> No doubt about it, it's costly to go direct drive with high amps:
> $1,700 for additional motor (depending on what you get)
> $2,000 premium for upgrade to Z2K
> $350 for reversing contactor pair
> $350 (might as well throw in the series/parallel contactor!)
>
> That's $4,400 so far, as compared to the cost of a Z1K with single 9". Of
> course you need to factor in the cost of the tranny and adapter plate.
> Neither option is a drop in, so there are other costs as well.
>
> If you do decide to go with the dual motor setup, this was the way I wired
> them for series/parallel and single motor reverse:
> http://www.jouleinjected.com/joule-injected-single-rev-circuit.pdf
> I just put this up on the site, since it was being discussed recently.
>
> The '29 Ford looks like a fun project! Keep us posted on what you decide
> to
> do.
>
> Matt Graham
> 300V Nissan 240SX "Joule Injected"
> http://www.jouleinjected.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf
> Of Marty Hewes
> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 10:35 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Looking for a Conversion Kit for a 1929 Ford.
>
> What am I missing here? Looks to me like you're considering a big buck
> dual
>
> motor and high current controller setup just to get decent acceleration,
> when a transmission would be a much more effective solution by getting the
> motor RPM up to where the motor load is a better match for the batteries.
> What would this look like off the line with a modest 3 to 1 first gear
> reduction in there? Three times the torque at the rear wheels for the
> cost
> of a bone yard trans? Then what would the acceleration be with a 1K Zilla
> and at least AGM's? I'm really having a hard time understanding the appeal
> of running a DC motor without a transmission for anything short of a super
> light weight lithium powered dragster. I've got to be missing something.
>
> Marty
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Shanab" <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 8:31 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Looking for a Conversion Kit for a 1929 Ford.
>
>
>> You would be happier with 2 8" than 1 9" I think.
>>
>> assuming you have a typical 3.55:1 and 24" dia tire (840 rotations per
>> mile)
>>
>> the 840rpm for 60mph is ony 3k on the motor so speed is good, but...
>> assuming 2500lb finished weight 1200lb.ft of torque is needed for
>> 1/2 g launch (rather anemic)
>> 1200/3.55 is 338 lb.ft from the motor. or over 1000 amps in the
>> motor loop
>>
>> so .7G launch (brisk) is out of the question with this rear end
>>
>> ok consider a 4.11:1 3500 rpm at 60
>> 1/2G 291 lb.ft right at 900Amps, ok zilla will do this for a few
>> seconds.
>> .7G is 425lb.ft again to many amps
>>
>> So either you need a rather non-standard rear end ratio of about 6:1
>> or two motors to start off the line,
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>


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Discussion Starter #10
--- Marty Hewes <[email protected]> wrote:

> I briefly considered
> two motors in the Jeep,
> one direct drive to the front axle, one to the rear,
> then I wouldn't need to
> tie them together. With the motors in parallel, it
> would be pretty cool
> traction control. If a wheel spun, the RPM of that
> motor would increase,
> and therefore the current through that motor would
> drop, giving more to the
> other motor.

Hey Marty

I thought I might suggest that if in fact these two
motors did opperate as you describe that you could
change the actual duty cycle of the motors where one
motor would be really happy but the other motor could
be overworked get hotter and have a shorter duty cycle
than the other.

Just a thought I had on this.

Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric



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Discussion Starter #12
The natural tendency of an ICE motor is to rapidly drop rpm when the
throttle is lifted, this makes shifting a transmission fast and smooth.
The natural tendency of an electric motor is to slowly drop in rpm when
the throttle is lifted, this makes long or jarring shifts.

In an ICE, The noise in a transmission is masked by the normal engine
and exhaust sounds. After driving my EV for a year or so, i have come to
hate the long shifts(and I am a person who prefers a stick) and the
noise from it.

The clutch is also another ICE era part that must be adapted, maintained
and replaced. All this talk about adapters is trying to fit into the
ICE worlds motto of proprietary parts. If there was an inline for rwd
and an over and under dual motor setup(with differential in houseing) no
tranny adapters would be needed.

Actually if I had the ability to play there is one more idea I would
like to try.
Use a locking torque converter. It would start at 3:! or 4:1 then
transition smoothly up to near 1:1 then you lock it in to 1:1.

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Discussion Starter #13
If the goal is to ditch the trans, which certainly has some appeal, how does
the price of dual DC motors and the added complexity of the controller,
reversing, and coupling them compare to just going AC without the trans?
Still cheaper?

I like the torque converter only idea, I wonder if such a device is off the
shelf in the boat world for getting up on plane. Of course it's really just
a lossy CVT, right? I'm going the other way for my Jeep, automatic trans
without the converter. No clutch or converter rotational mass, no slow
shifts, 2.5 to 1 first and a reverse. We'll see about pressure at 0 RPM,
shift point control, the noise, and losses.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Looking for a Conversion Kit for a 1929 Ford.


> The natural tendency of an ICE motor is to rapidly drop rpm when the
> throttle is lifted, this makes shifting a transmission fast and smooth.
> The natural tendency of an electric motor is to slowly drop in rpm when
> the throttle is lifted, this makes long or jarring shifts.
>
> In an ICE, The noise in a transmission is masked by the normal engine
> and exhaust sounds. After driving my EV for a year or so, i have come to
> hate the long shifts(and I am a person who prefers a stick) and the
> noise from it.
>
> The clutch is also another ICE era part that must be adapted, maintained
> and replaced. All this talk about adapters is trying to fit into the
> ICE worlds motto of proprietary parts. If there was an inline for rwd
> and an over and under dual motor setup(with differential in houseing) no
> tranny adapters would be needed.
>
> Actually if I had the ability to play there is one more idea I would
> like to try.
> Use a locking torque converter. It would start at 3:! or 4:1 then
> transition smoothly up to near 1:1 then you lock it in to 1:1.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>


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Discussion Starter #14
I think you might get better performance by using a powerglide
transmission and running a small pump on the side for hydraulic
pressure. I think that Jeff Shanab is using an automatic in his car.
You could also find a Subaru Justy CVT transmission and use that maybe.
OR how about using a 4wheel drive transfer case?

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Marty Hewes
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 10:14
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Looking for a Conversion Kit for a 1929 Ford.

If the goal is to ditch the trans, which certainly has some appeal, how
does the price of dual DC motors and the added complexity of the
controller, reversing, and coupling them compare to just going AC
without the trans?
Still cheaper?

I like the torque converter only idea, I wonder if such a device is off
the shelf in the boat world for getting up on plane. Of course it's
really just a lossy CVT, right? I'm going the other way for my Jeep,
automatic trans without the converter. No clutch or converter
rotational mass, no slow shifts, 2.5 to 1 first and a reverse. We'll
see about pressure at 0 RPM, shift point control, the noise, and losses.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Looking for a Conversion Kit for a 1929 Ford.


> The natural tendency of an ICE motor is to rapidly drop rpm when the
> throttle is lifted, this makes shifting a transmission fast and
smooth.
> The natural tendency of an electric motor is to slowly drop in rpm
when
> the throttle is lifted, this makes long or jarring shifts.
>
> In an ICE, The noise in a transmission is masked by the normal engine
> and exhaust sounds. After driving my EV for a year or so, i have come
to
> hate the long shifts(and I am a person who prefers a stick) and the
> noise from it.
>
> The clutch is also another ICE era part that must be adapted,
maintained
> and replaced. All this talk about adapters is trying to fit into the
> ICE worlds motto of proprietary parts. If there was an inline for rwd
> and an over and under dual motor setup(with differential in houseing)
no
> tranny adapters would be needed.
>
> Actually if I had the ability to play there is one more idea I would
> like to try.
> Use a locking torque converter. It would start at 3:! or 4:1 then
> transition smoothly up to near 1:1 then you lock it in to 1:1.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>


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Discussion Starter #15
My initial attempt will be a Turbo 350, similar vintage, better
availability, cheap, lower first gear and tremendous aftermarket support.
I'll probably use a single electric pump with suitable regulators for power
steering (running trans fluid from a deep pan for the reservoir) and the
trans at zero RPM. I think the Turbo 350 is overkill, but would a Subaru
Justy trans hold up to a 9" and a 1K Zilla in a relatively heavy vehicle?

The troubles with the transfer case are no reverse, oddball input shaft
(unless it's a heavy divorced NP203) and I believe no synchros on the
low/high shift.

Anybody ever seen a reasonably light two speed axle? I know some trucks use
them, but they are probably all huge.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Looking for a Conversion Kit for a 1929 Ford.


>I think you might get better performance by using a powerglide
> transmission and running a small pump on the side for hydraulic
> pressure. I think that Jeff Shanab is using an automatic in his car.
> You could also find a Subaru Justy CVT transmission and use that maybe.
> OR how about using a 4wheel drive transfer case?


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Discussion Starter #16
Hey Marty,

We used the Subaru CVT on our hybrid electric vehicle back in the '94 HEV
Challenge. We loved it, but the two points of weakness in it are the
internal Van Dorne steel belt and the clutch. I would expect it to perform
pretty miserably under any significant power.

The clutch locks up when a current is applied. If I remember correctly,
there are metal filings inside that engage the clutch disk, and this limits
it to something like 80 HP. The steel belt is pushed, rather than pulled,
and is held by the pulley disks through hydraulic pressure on one side. I
don't know what the limits are for this arrangement, but if designed
properly, it's not much more than what the clutch can handle.

I'm sure it's pricey, but what about the newer Honda CVT?

Matt Graham
300V Nissan 240SX "Joule Injected"
http://www.jouleinjected.com


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Marty Hewes
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 11:00 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Looking for a Conversion Kit for a 1929 Ford.

My initial attempt will be a Turbo 350, similar vintage, better
availability, cheap, lower first gear and tremendous aftermarket support.
I'll probably use a single electric pump with suitable regulators for power
steering (running trans fluid from a deep pan for the reservoir) and the
trans at zero RPM. I think the Turbo 350 is overkill, but would a Subaru
Justy trans hold up to a 9" and a 1K Zilla in a relatively heavy vehicle?

The troubles with the transfer case are no reverse, oddball input shaft
(unless it's a heavy divorced NP203) and I believe no synchros on the
low/high shift.

Anybody ever seen a reasonably light two speed axle? I know some trucks use

them, but they are probably all huge.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Looking for a Conversion Kit for a 1929 Ford.


>I think you might get better performance by using a powerglide
> transmission and running a small pump on the side for hydraulic
> pressure. I think that Jeff Shanab is using an automatic in his car.
> You could also find a Subaru Justy CVT transmission and use that maybe.
> OR how about using a 4wheel drive transfer case?


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http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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Discussion Starter #17
If you are going to use a Chevy transmission, consider using a 700R4
instead. The reason I say this is because you can use the lockup
features of the transmission in high gear so you won't lose any
efficiency in high gear. There ARE TH350 transmission that have lockup
if you are lucky enough to find one but I don't know what
year/make/models had them. The 700R4 also has a great 1st gear ratio
which will help you off the line.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Marty Hewes
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 11:00
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Looking for a Conversion Kit for a 1929 Ford.

My initial attempt will be a Turbo 350, similar vintage, better
availability, cheap, lower first gear and tremendous aftermarket
support.
I'll probably use a single electric pump with suitable regulators for
power steering (running trans fluid from a deep pan for the reservoir)
and the trans at zero RPM. I think the Turbo 350 is overkill, but would
a Subaru Justy trans hold up to a 9" and a 1K Zilla in a relatively
heavy vehicle?

The troubles with the transfer case are no reverse, oddball input shaft
(unless it's a heavy divorced NP203) and I believe no synchros on the
low/high shift.

Anybody ever seen a reasonably light two speed axle? I know some trucks
use them, but they are probably all huge.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Looking for a Conversion Kit for a 1929 Ford.


>I think you might get better performance by using a powerglide
> transmission and running a small pump on the side for hydraulic
> pressure. I think that Jeff Shanab is using an automatic in his car.
> You could also find a Subaru Justy CVT transmission and use that
maybe.
> OR how about using a 4wheel drive transfer case?


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http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
isaaks wrote:
> I have a 1929 Ford coupe that is looking for an engine. You can see it at

What an interesting project!

As you probably know, Roderick Wilde did a similar vintage car EV
conversion. It turned out pretty nicely.

I've had an idea in the back of my mind. Nowdays, many people have no
idea what "all that stuff" under the hood of a car is for. They don't
know a contactor from a coil, a carburetor from a controller, or an
electric motor from a transmission.

So, what if you built an engine-shaped thing that looked sort of like an
ICE, but was really made from an electric motor, batteries, controller,
and related bits? Make it pretty; all chrome and bright colors. For
instance, the electric motor sits where the crankshaft is, the "heads"
are rows of batteries, the controller sits on top like an intake
manifold, etc. All the usual accessories (alternator, water pump, power
steering) are belt driven as usual. The radiator is really just the A/C
condenser. And so on...

There would be more batteries in place of the gas tank, spare tire
location, or other out-of-sight places. So at a casual glance, it looks
like an ICE to the untrained eye. But a gearhead will recognize that
something is seriously odd!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

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Discussion Starter #20
Or maybe tuck a Warp 9 under the floor and put just a big squirrel cage with
a few stuffed animals in it under the hood :).

Maybe build a Harly V twin replica with 2 motors?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Gabrielsson" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 2:21 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Looking for a Conversion Kit for a 1929 Ford.


>I had a similar vision after reading this:
> http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/fringengineer.html.
>
> While the reasoning of the fringe engineer is quite nutty, he did gave
> me the idea of building a "fake" V6 for a show car in a similar way.
> The engine block would contain three sets of ring gears on a main
> shaft. Six small forklift motors with pinion gears would be positioned
> like the cylinders on a regular motor, driving the ring gears. The
> motors could be all chromed up with shiny brass terminals and the
> wiring could be made with transparent insulation for that bling look,
> maybe even some more-money-than-brains goldplated stereo wiring and
> connectors.
>
> Accessories could be driven off a belt on the front end like you
> mention. There would be no need for a gear box as the engine block is
> it. The motors could also be connected in multiple series/parallel
> configurations for torque/top speed.
>
> This would of course be done with the purpose of making as many ICE
> guys as possible scratch their heads.
>
> Just Dreaming
> -Peter


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