[EVDL List]
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 

[EVDL List]
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 

[EVDL List]

80 Degrees Celsius, sigh, formidable design consideration indeed.

It says it needs to keep that temperature to "output power" I wonder if it
keeps its charge whilst being in a state where it is unable to output power.
Making very efficient insulated enclosures is not really all that big of a
deal, with ceramic thermal paints and insulating material, a couple of lead
acid batteries I'm sure could heat a large enclosure filled with batteries
up to sufficient heat. A little bit of loss with a DC/DC converter to
recharge the lead acids from the main pack upon reaching heat, seems
reasonable to think 20% more range for same weight (including weight of
enclosure and heating components) would be easily attainable. Or perhaps the
heating would be entirely done from line power, it would have to be if the
batteries lose charge due to temperature. But then you'd be sacrificing
energy bills to always keep the car enclosures hot for increased range.

And it says nothing of how many cycles the batteries are theoretically or
practically good for. If you charge them whilst cold do they heat up? Or do
they have to be hot to input power as well as output?

Does anyone have an account with that science direct site or have plans to
blow 30$ on the article? Perhaps the answers are buried within.

Jeff Haskell <[email protected]> wrote:

> How much of the increased battery capacity is needed to run heaters to ke=
ep
> them up to temperature? Even if you only got 20% more range, they seem
> to
> be a lot more cost-effective.
>
> On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 22:38, brucedp4 <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> > Double the energy density, Sumitomo to commercialize/market by 2015
> >
> >
> >
> http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/03/low-temperature-molten-salt-battery-ten.=
html
> > by bw at 3/05/2011 Mar 05 2011
> > Low temperature molten-salt battery ten times cheaper than lithium ion
> > by 2015
> >
> > Sumitomo Electric Industries Ltd., in partnership with Kyoto
> > University, has developed a lower temperature molten-salt rechargeable
> > battery that promises to cost only about 10% as much as lithium ion
> > batteries. Sumitomo intends to commercialize the battery around 2015
> > and market it as an alternative to lithium-ion batteries used in
> > automobiles and homes.
> >
> > The new battery uses sodium-containing substances melted at a high
> > temperature. The technology has been around for decades, but existing
> > molten-salt batteries require keeping the electrolyte in a liquid
> > state at a temperature higher than 300 C. Sumitomo Electric worked
> > with researchers at Kyoto University to develop a sodium material that
> > melts at 57 C.
> >
> > Having roughly double the energy density of a typical lithium ion
> > battery, the new battery would let an electric vehicle travel twice as
> > far as a lithium ion battery of the same size. Automakers would be
> > able to reduce the space taken up by batteries in their EVs. Molten-
> > salt batteries also boast high heat and impact resistance and are said
> > to be less susceptible to igniting than lithium ion batteries.
> >
> > Sodium is cheaper than lithium because it is in abundant supply. The
> > new battery is expected to be priced at about Y20,000 per kilowatt-
> > hour--about 10% as much as domestic lithium ion batteries and one-
> > fifth as much as Chinese products.
> >
> > But unlike a room-temperature lithium ion battery, the new battery
> > must be kept at 80 C to output power. So for the time being, Sumitomo
> > Electric envisions it being used in applications where it is operating
> > continuously, such as homes and electric buses. The company and the
> > university have applied to have the battery patented.
> >
> > Molten-salt batteries use highly conductive molten salts as an
> > electrolyte, and can offer high energy and power densities. The ZEBRA
> > battery is an example of a molten salt battery. A drawback to the
> > general class of molten salt batteries has been high operating
> > temperatures. []
> >
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.ytwhw.com/2011/0304/New-Sumitomo-Electric-Battery-90-Cheaper-T=
han-Lithium-Ion-Nikkei.html
> > New Sumitomo Electric Battery 90% Cheaper Than Lithium Ion
> > Nikkei 2011-03-04 ... Sumitomo Electric worked with researchers at
> > Kyoto University to develop a sodium material that melts at 57 C ...
> >
> > Automakers would be
> > able to reduce the space taken up by batteries in their EVs ... boast
> > high heat and impact resistance and are said to be less susceptible
> > to igniting than lithium ion batteries.
> >
> > Sodium is cheaper than lithium because it is in abundant supply. The
> > new battery is expected to be priced at about Y20,000 per kilowatt-
> > hour--about 10% as much as domestic lithium ion batteries and one-
> > fifth as much as Chinese products.
> >
> > But unlike a room-temperature lithium ion battery, the new battery
> > must be kept at 80 C to output power. So for the time being, Sumitomo
> > Electric envisions it being used in applications where it is operating
> > continuously, such as homes and electric buses. The company and the
> > university have applied to have the battery patented.
> > [(C) ytwhw.com All rights reserved]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=3DArticleURL&_udi=3DB6TG0-4CW3RV=
Y-3&_user=3D10&_coverDate=3D10%2F15%2F2004&_rdoc=3D1&_fmt=3Dhigh&_orig=3Dga=
teway&_origin=3Dgateway&_sort=3Dd&_docanchor=3D&view=3Dc&_searchStrId=3D167=
4075134&_rerunOrigin=3Dgoogle&_acct=3DC000050221&_version=3D1&_urlVersion=
=3D0&_userid=3D10&md5=3D4a58602ae7a2c9367585df6f5dc8a28e&searchtype=3Da
> > Electrochimica Acta
> > Volume 49, Issue 26, 15 October 2004, Pages 4583-4588
> > doi:10.1016/j.electacta.2004.04.041
> >
> > Room temperature molten salts as lithium battery electrolyte
> > B=E9atrice Garcia, Serge Lavall=E9ea, G=E9rald Perrona, Christophe Mich=
ota
> > and Michel Armanda
> >
> > a Laboratoire International sur les Mat=E9riaux =C9lectroactifs,
> > CNRS/Universit=E9 de Montr=E9al, UMR 2289, D=E9partement de Chimie,
> > Universit=E9 de Montr=E9al, CP 6128, Succursale centre- ville, Montr=E9=
al,
> > Que., Canada H3C 3J7
> > Received 9 December 2003;
> > revised 16 March 2004;
> > accepted 18 April 2004.
> > Available online 25 July 2004.
> >
> > Abstract
> > In the present study, are reported investigations obtained with the
> > room temperature molten salt (RTMS) ethyl-methyl-imidazolium
> > bis-(trifluoromethanesulfonyl)-imide (EMI-TFSI) in order to use it as
> > solvent in lithium battery. The thermal stability, viscosity,
> > conductivity and electrochemical properties are presented. A solution
> > of 1m lithium bis-(trifluoromethanesulfonyl)-imide (LiTFSI) in
> > EMI-TFSI has been used to test the electrolyte in a battery with
> > LiCoO2 and Li4Ti5O12 as respectively cathode and anode materials.
> > Cycling and power measurements have been obtained. The results have
> > been compared with those obtained with a molten salt formulated with
> > a different anion, BF4- and with a conventional liquid organic
> > solvent EC/DMC containing LiTFSI. The 1m LiTFSI/EMI-TFSI electrolyte
> > provides the best cycling performance: a capacity up to 106 mAh g-1
> > is still delivered after 200 cycles, with 1C rate at 25 =B0C ...
> >
> > 1. Introduction
> > 2. Experimental
> > 3. Results and discussion
> > 3.1. Thermal stability
> > 3.2. Viscosity
> > 3.3. Conductivity
> > 3.4. Electrochemical stability
> > 3.5. Battery tests
> > 4. Conclusion
> > References
> > ... [Copyright =A9 2011 Elsevier B.V. All rights reserved.]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > {brucedp.150m.com}
> >
> > --
> > View this message in context:
> >
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Low-temp-mol=
ten-salt-battery-x10-cheaper-than-lithium-ion-tp3347400p3347400.html
> > Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> > Nabble.com.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> > | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> > | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> > | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20110311/6017c889/at=
tachment.html
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20110311/80d1fb9c=
/attachment.html =

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

 

[EVDL List]

How much of the battery energy gets "wasted" keeping the battery warm?
Here's a guess:

Let's start with a hypothetical battery pack. You want 20kWh. Energy
density for LiFePo is somewhere around 125 Wh/kg (chime in if you have a
better number). Thus, your 20kWh pack would weigh 160kg.

According to Sumitomo, their cells will have roughly double the energy
density. That means your hypothetical pack would weigh 80kg (wow, that
would be awesome!). Ok, a lot of assumptions. More coming. You'll see
where I'm going.

Next is to guess the specific energy of the Sumitomo cells. Since they are
to be molton (another broad assumption coming), I'm going to use the
specific energy of water: 1 calorie to heat 1g of water 1 deg celcuis. I
have no idea how close this would be to a molten salt - anyone else care to
opine?

Last assumption: let's say we can insulate the battery so that it looses
about 5 deg celcius per hour when near its operating temperature of 80.

Given all that, the calories it would loose per hour (and thus need to
replace) =3D 5deg * 80kg =3D 400kcal =3D 400,000 cal.
At 4.18J / cal, that's 400,000 * 4.18 =3D 1,672kJ.
1J =3D 1Ws (watt*second). So, 1,672kJ =3D 1,672kWs. Convert to hours: =3D
1672/3600 =3D .46kWh.

All that means you would need .46kWh per hour, or .46kW, to keep the battery
at 80 deg cel. For a 20kWh pack, that means it could heat itself for 20kWh
/ .46kW =3D 43,000 hours. =


I have to admit, this number seems too large. Anyone care to verify my
calcs? At any rate, if my assumptions are even within 10% accuracy, heating
won't be an issue.

Peri Hartman



Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Jeff Haskell
Sent: 11 March, 2011 4:22 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: brucedp4
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Low temp molten-salt battery x10 cheaper than
lithium-ion

How much of the increased battery capacity is needed to run heaters to keep
them up to temperature? Even if you only got 20% more range, they seem to
be a lot more cost-effective.

brucedp4 <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> Double the energy density, Sumitomo to commercialize/market by 2015
>
>
> http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/03/low-temperature-molten-salt-battery-t
> en.html
> by bw at 3/05/2011 Mar 05 2011
> Low temperature molten-salt battery ten times cheaper than lithium ion =

> by 2015
>
> Sumitomo Electric Industries Ltd., in partnership with Kyoto =

> University, has developed a lower temperature molten-salt rechargeable =

> battery that promises to cost only about 10% as much as lithium ion =

> batteries. Sumitomo intends to commercialize the battery around 2015 =

> and market it as an alternative to lithium-ion batteries used in =

> automobiles and homes.
>
> The new battery uses sodium-containing substances melted at a high =

> temperature. The technology has been around for decades, but existing =

> molten-salt batteries require keeping the electrolyte in a liquid =

> state at a temperature higher than 300 C. Sumitomo Electric worked =

> with researchers at Kyoto University to develop a sodium material that =

> melts at 57 C.
>
> Having roughly double the energy density of a typical lithium ion =

> battery, the new battery would let an electric vehicle travel twice as =

> far as a lithium ion battery of the same size. Automakers would be =

> able to reduce the space taken up by batteries in their EVs. Molten- =

> salt batteries also boast high heat and impact resistance and are said =

> to be less susceptible to igniting than lithium ion batteries.
>
> Sodium is cheaper than lithium because it is in abundant supply. The =

> new battery is expected to be priced at about Y20,000 per kilowatt- =

> hour--about 10% as much as domestic lithium ion batteries and one- =

> fifth as much as Chinese products.
>
> But unlike a room-temperature lithium ion battery, the new battery =

> must be kept at 80 C to output power. So for the time being, Sumitomo =

> Electric envisions it being used in applications where it is operating =

> continuously, such as homes and electric buses. The company and the =

> university have applied to have the battery patented.
>
> Molten-salt batteries use highly conductive molten salts as an =

> electrolyte, and can offer high energy and power densities. The ZEBRA =

> battery is an example of a molten salt battery. A drawback to the =

> general class of molten salt batteries has been high operating =

> temperatures. []
>
>
>
> http://www.ytwhw.com/2011/0304/New-Sumitomo-Electric-Battery-90-Cheape
> r-Than-Lithium-Ion-Nikkei.html New Sumitomo Electric Battery 90% =

> Cheaper Than Lithium Ion Nikkei 2011-03-04 ... Sumitomo Electric =

> worked with researchers at Kyoto University to develop a sodium =

> material that melts at 57 C ...
>
> Automakers would be
> able to reduce the space taken up by batteries in their EVs ... boast =

> high heat and impact resistance and are said to be less susceptible to =

> igniting than lithium ion batteries.
>
> Sodium is cheaper than lithium because it is in abundant supply. The =

> new battery is expected to be priced at about Y20,000 per kilowatt- =

> hour--about 10% as much as domestic lithium ion batteries and one- =

> fifth as much as Chinese products.
>
> But unlike a room-temperature lithium ion battery, the new battery =

> must be kept at 80 C to output power. So for the time being, Sumitomo =

> Electric envisions it being used in applications where it is operating =

> continuously, such as homes and electric buses. The company and the =

> university have applied to have the battery patented.
> [(C) ytwhw.com All rights reserved]
>
>
>
> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=3DArticleURL&_udi=3DB6TG0-4CW3RVY
> -3&_user=3D10&_coverDate=3D10%2F15%2F2004&_rdoc=3D1&_fmt=3Dhigh&_orig=3Dg=
ateway&
> _origin=3Dgateway&_sort=3Dd&_docanchor=3D&view=3Dc&_searchStrId=3D1674075=
134&_re
> runOrigin=3Dgoogle&_acct=3DC000050221&_version=3D1&_urlVersion=3D0&_useri=
d=3D10&
> md5=3D4a58602ae7a2c9367585df6f5dc8a28e&searchtype=3Da
> Electrochimica Acta
> Volume 49, Issue 26, 15 October 2004, Pages 4583-4588
> doi:10.1016/j.electacta.2004.04.041
>
> Room temperature molten salts as lithium battery electrolyte B=E9atrice =

> Garcia, Serge Lavall=E9ea, G=E9rald Perrona, Christophe Michota and Miche=
l =

> Armanda
>
> a Laboratoire International sur les Mat=E9riaux =C9lectroactifs, =

> CNRS/Universit=E9 de Montr=E9al, UMR 2289, D=E9partement de Chimie, =

> Universit=E9 de Montr=E9al, CP 6128, Succursale centre- ville, Montr=E9al=
, =

> Que., Canada H3C 3J7 Received 9 December 2003; revised 16 March 2004; =

> accepted 18 April 2004.
> Available online 25 July 2004.
>
> Abstract
> In the present study, are reported investigations obtained with the =

> room temperature molten salt (RTMS) ethyl-methyl-imidazolium =

> bis-(trifluoromethanesulfonyl)-imide (EMI-TFSI) in order to use it as =

> solvent in lithium battery. The thermal stability, viscosity, =

> conductivity and electrochemical properties are presented. A solution =

> of 1m lithium bis-(trifluoromethanesulfonyl)-imide (LiTFSI) in =

> EMI-TFSI has been used to test the electrolyte in a battery with
> LiCoO2 and Li4Ti5O12 as respectively cathode and anode materials.
> Cycling and power measurements have been obtained. The results have =

> been compared with those obtained with a molten salt formulated with a =

> different anion, BF4- and with a conventional liquid organic solvent =

> EC/DMC containing LiTFSI. The 1m LiTFSI/EMI-TFSI electrolyte provides =

> the best cycling performance: a capacity up to 106 mAh g-1 is still =

> delivered after 200 cycles, with 1C rate at 25 =B0C ...
>
> 1. Introduction
> 2. Experimental
> 3. Results and discussion
> 3.1. Thermal stability
> 3.2. Viscosity
> 3.3. Conductivity
> 3.4. Electrochemical stability
> 3.5. Battery tests
> 4. Conclusion
> References
> ... [Copyright =A9 2011 Elsevier B.V. All rights reserved.]
>
>
>
>
>
> {brucedp.150m.com}
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Low-temp-
> molten-salt-battery-x10-cheaper-than-lithium-ion-tp3347400p3347400.htm
> l Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive =

> at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20110311/6017c889/attac
hment.html
_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev



_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

 

[EVDL List]

Peri Hartman wrote:

> How much of the battery energy gets "wasted" keeping the battery warm?
> Here's a guess:

> All that means you would need .46kWh per hour, or .46kW, to
> keep the battery at 80 deg cel.

Your guess is waaay too high, I expect.

I'm sure it is too early in the development of this low-temperature molten battery technology to know what the heat loss/energy requirement of a commercial version would be, however, I think we can get a reasonable idea by looking at what the Zebra high-temperature molten battery requires.

The Zebra 17.8kWh battery loses less than 110W when at 270C internal temperature. Heat loss being proportional to the difference between battery internal temperature and the ambient, we can expect that a similarly constructed 80C battery would require about 1/3 this much energy to maintain its operating temperature; about 40W.

40W = 0.04kW * 24h = 0.96kWh/day in standby losses. A 20kWh battery would be completely run down in about 20 days if left with the heater running and not plugged into AC. Think of the heating requirement as equivalent to a high sel-discharge rate. This characteristic makes these types of battery most suited to applications where the battery is used daily; taxis, buses, commuter vehicles, etc. When you leave the vehicle parked for longer periods, you simply turn off the heater and let the battery freeze. When you return and thaw the battery, it will be in the same state of charge that it was when you parked it.

As to some of the other questions posed, it is likely that this low temperature molten battery will be similar in behaviour to the high-temperature Zebra. That is, it must be molten to charge or discharge, and maintains its state of charge indefinitely while in the frozen state. I don't have a spec for the power of the heater in the Zebra battery, but it is said to take 24hr to bring the 195kg battery to operating temperature from ambient.

Cheers,

Roger.

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

 

[EVDL List]

Thanks Roger, some good datas there. If indeed they can maintain the charge
whilst frozen there could really be some potential here.

Roger Stockton <[email protected]>wrote:

> Peri Hartman wrote:
>
> > How much of the battery energy gets "wasted" keeping the battery warm?
> > Here's a guess:
>
> > All that means you would need .46kWh per hour, or .46kW, to
> > keep the battery at 80 deg cel.
>
> Your guess is waaay too high, I expect.
>
> I'm sure it is too early in the development of this low-temperature molten
> battery technology to know what the heat loss/energy requirement of a
> commercial version would be, however, I think we can get a reasonable idea
> by looking at what the Zebra high-temperature molten battery requires.
>
> The Zebra 17.8kWh battery loses less than 110W when at 270C internal
> temperature. Heat loss being proportional to the difference between battery
> internal temperature and the ambient, we can expect that a similarly
> constructed 80C battery would require about 1/3 this much energy to maintain
> its operating temperature; about 40W.
>
> 40W = 0.04kW * 24h = 0.96kWh/day in standby losses. A 20kWh battery would
> be completely run down in about 20 days if left with the heater running and
> not plugged into AC. Think of the heating requirement as equivalent to a
> high sel-discharge rate. This characteristic makes these types of battery
> most suited to applications where the battery is used daily; taxis, buses,
> commuter vehicles, etc. When you leave the vehicle parked for longer
> periods, you simply turn off the heater and let the battery freeze. When
> you return and thaw the battery, it will be in the same state of charge that
> it was when you parked it.
>
> As to some of the other questions posed, it is likely that this low
> temperature molten battery will be similar in behaviour to the
> high-temperature Zebra. That is, it must be molten to charge or discharge,
> and maintains its state of charge indefinitely while in the frozen state. I
> don't have a spec for the power of the heater in the Zebra battery, but it
> is said to take 24hr to bring the 195kg battery to operating temperature
> from ambient.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20110311/202b64b7/attachment.html
_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

 

[EVDL List]

Your calculation actually comes out to 43 hours, not 43,000 hours.....

Peri Hartman <[email protected]> wrote:
> How much of the battery energy gets "wasted" keeping the battery warm?
> Here's a guess:
>
> Let's start with a hypothetical battery pack. You want 20kWh. Energy
> density for LiFePo is somewhere around 125 Wh/kg (chime in if you have a
> better number). Thus, your 20kWh pack would weigh 160kg.
>
> According to Sumitomo, their cells will have roughly double the energy
> density. That means your hypothetical pack would weigh 80kg (wow, that
> would be awesome!). Ok, a lot of assumptions. More coming. You'l=
l see
> where I'm going.
>
> Next is to guess the specific energy of the Sumitomo cells. Since they=
are
> to be molton (another broad assumption coming), I'm going to use the
> specific energy of water: 1 calorie to heat 1g of water 1 deg celcuis. =
I
> have no idea how close this would be to a molten salt - anyone else care =
to
> opine?
>
> Last assumption: let's say we can insulate the battery so that it looses
> about 5 deg celcius per hour when near its operating temperature of 80.
>
> Given all that, the calories it would loose per hour (and thus need to
> replace) =3D 5deg * 80kg =3D 400kcal =3D 400,000 cal.
> At 4.18J / cal, that's 400,000 * 4.18 =3D 1,672kJ.
> 1J =3D 1Ws (watt*second). So, 1,672kJ =3D 1,672kWs. Convert to hours: =
=3D
> 1672/3600 =3D .46kWh.
>
> All that means you would need .46kWh per hour, or .46kW, to keep the batt=
ery
> at 80 deg cel. For a 20kWh pack, that means it could heat itself for 2=
0kWh
> / .46kW =3D 43,000 hours.
>
> I have to admit, this number seems too large. Anyone care to verify my
> calcs? At any rate, if my assumptions are even within 10% accuracy, he=
ating
> won't be an issue.
>
> Peri Hartman
>
>
>
> Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Beh=
alf
> Of Jeff Haskell
> Sent: 11 March, 2011 4:22 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Cc: brucedp4
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Low temp molten-salt battery x10 cheaper than
> lithium-ion
>
> How much of the increased battery capacity is needed to run heaters to ke=
ep
> them up to temperature? Even if you only got 20% more range, they seem=
to
> be a lot more cost-effective.
>
> On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 22:38, brucedp4 <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> Double the energy density, Sumitomo to commercialize/market by 2015
>>
>>
>> http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/03/low-temperature-molten-salt-battery-t
>> en.html
>> by bw at 3/05/2011 Mar 05 2011
>> Low temperature molten-salt battery ten times cheaper than lithium ion
>> by 2015
>>
>> Sumitomo Electric Industries Ltd., in partnership with Kyoto
>> University, has developed a lower temperature molten-salt rechargeable
>> battery that promises to cost only about 10% as much as lithium ion
>> batteries. Sumitomo intends to commercialize the battery around 2015
>> and market it as an alternative to lithium-ion batteries used in
>> automobiles and homes.
>>
>> The new battery uses sodium-containing substances melted at a high
>> temperature. The technology has been around for decades, but existing
>> molten-salt batteries require keeping the electrolyte in a liquid
>> state at a temperature higher than 300 C. Sumitomo Electric worked
>> with researchers at Kyoto University to develop a sodium material that
>> melts at 57 C.
>>
>> Having roughly double the energy density of a typical lithium ion
>> battery, the new battery would let an electric vehicle travel twice as
>> far as a lithium ion battery of the same size. Automakers would be
>> able to reduce the space taken up by batteries in their EVs. Molten-
>> salt batteries also boast high heat and impact resistance and are said
>> to be less susceptible to igniting than lithium ion batteries.
>>
>> Sodium is cheaper than lithium because it is in abundant supply. The
>> new battery is expected to be priced at about Y20,000 per kilowatt-
>> hour--about 10% as much as domestic lithium ion batteries and one-
>> fifth as much as Chinese products.
>>
>> But unlike a room-temperature lithium ion battery, the new battery
>> must be kept at 80 C to output power. So for the time being, Sumitomo
>> Electric envisions it being used in applications where it is operating
>> continuously, such as homes and electric buses. The company and the
>> university have applied to have the battery patented.
>>
>> Molten-salt batteries use highly conductive molten salts as an
>> electrolyte, and can offer high energy and power densities. The ZEBRA
>> battery is an example of a molten salt battery. A drawback to the
>> general class of molten salt batteries has been high operating
>> temperatures. []
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.ytwhw.com/2011/0304/New-Sumitomo-Electric-Battery-90-Cheape
>> r-Than-Lithium-Ion-Nikkei.html New Sumitomo Electric Battery 90%
>> Cheaper Than Lithium Ion Nikkei 2011-03-04 ... Sumitomo Electric
>> worked with researchers at Kyoto University to develop a sodium
>> material that melts at 57 C ...
>>
>> Automakers would be
>> able to reduce the space taken up by batteries in their EVs ... boast
>> high heat and impact resistance and are said to be less susceptible to
>> igniting than lithium ion batteries.
>>
>> Sodium is cheaper than lithium because it is in abundant supply. The
>> new battery is expected to be priced at about Y20,000 per kilowatt-
>> hour--about 10% as much as domestic lithium ion batteries and one-
>> fifth as much as Chinese products.
>>
>> But unlike a room-temperature lithium ion battery, the new battery
>> must be kept at 80 C to output power. So for the time being, Sumitomo
>> Electric envisions it being used in applications where it is operating
>> continuously, such as homes and electric buses. The company and the
>> university have applied to have the battery patented.
>> [(C) ytwhw.com All rights reserved]
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=3DArticleURL&_udi=3DB6TG0-4CW3R=
VY
>> -3&_user=3D10&_coverDate=3D10%2F15%2F2004&_rdoc=3D1&_fmt=3Dhigh&> l Sent=
from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive
>> at Nabble.com.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
>> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20110311/6017c889/at=
tac
> hment.html
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

 

[EVDL List]

Thanks. Acutally I saw that a bit after I sent the message. Always happens
that way
Peri =


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Zeke Yewdall
Sent: 11 March, 2011 1:55 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Low temp molten-salt battery x10 cheaper than
lithium-ion

Your calculation actually comes out to 43 hours, not 43,000 hours.....

Peri Hartman <[email protected]> wrote:
> How much of the battery energy gets "wasted" keeping the battery warm?
> Here's a guess:
>
> Let's start with a hypothetical battery pack. You want 20kWh. Energ=
y =

> density for LiFePo is somewhere around 125 Wh/kg (chime in if you have =

> a better number). Thus, your 20kWh pack would weigh 160kg.
>
> According to Sumitomo, their cells will have roughly double the energy =

> density. That means your hypothetical pack would weigh 80kg (wow, =

> that would be awesome!). Ok, a lot of assumptions. More coming.
> You'll see where I'm going.
>
> Next is to guess the specific energy of the Sumitomo cells. Since =

> they are to be molton (another broad assumption coming), I'm going to =

> use the specific energy of water: 1 calorie to heat 1g of water 1 deg =

> celcuis. I have no idea how close this would be to a molten salt - =

> anyone else care to opine?
>
> Last assumption: let's say we can insulate the battery so that it =

> looses about 5 deg celcius per hour when near its operating temperature of
80.
>
> Given all that, the calories it would loose per hour (and thus need to
> replace) =3D 5deg * 80kg =3D 400kcal =3D 400,000 cal.
> At 4.18J / cal, that's 400,000 * 4.18 =3D 1,672kJ.
> 1J =3D 1Ws (watt*second). So, 1,672kJ =3D 1,672kWs. Convert to hours: =
=3D =

> 1672/3600 =3D .46kWh.
>
> All that means you would need .46kWh per hour, or .46kW, to keep the =

> battery at 80 deg cel. For a 20kWh pack, that means it could heat =

> itself for 20kWh / .46kW =3D 43,000 hours.
>
> I have to admit, this number seems too large. Anyone care to verify =

> my calcs? At any rate, if my assumptions are even within 10% =

> accuracy, heating won't be an issue.
>
> Peri Hartman
>
>
>
> Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On =

> Behalf Of Jeff Haskell
> Sent: 11 March, 2011 4:22 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Cc: brucedp4
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Low temp molten-salt battery x10 cheaper than =

> lithium-ion
>
> How much of the increased battery capacity is needed to run heaters to =

> keep them up to temperature? Even if you only got 20% more range, =

> they seem to be a lot more cost-effective.
>
> On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 22:38, brucedp4 <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> Double the energy density, Sumitomo to commercialize/market by 2015
>>
>>
>> http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/03/low-temperature-molten-salt-battery-
>> t
>> en.html
>> by bw at 3/05/2011 Mar 05 2011
>> Low temperature molten-salt battery ten times cheaper than lithium =

>> ion by 2015
>>
>> Sumitomo Electric Industries Ltd., in partnership with Kyoto =

>> University, has developed a lower temperature molten-salt =

>> rechargeable battery that promises to cost only about 10% as much as =

>> lithium ion batteries. Sumitomo intends to commercialize the battery =

>> around 2015 and market it as an alternative to lithium-ion batteries =

>> used in automobiles and homes.
>>
>> The new battery uses sodium-containing substances melted at a high =

>> temperature. The technology has been around for decades, but existing =

>> molten-salt batteries require keeping the electrolyte in a liquid =

>> state at a temperature higher than 300 C. Sumitomo Electric worked =

>> with researchers at Kyoto University to develop a sodium material =

>> that melts at 57 C.
>>
>> Having roughly double the energy density of a typical lithium ion =

>> battery, the new battery would let an electric vehicle travel twice =

>> as far as a lithium ion battery of the same size. Automakers would be =

>> able to reduce the space taken up by batteries in their EVs. Molten- =

>> salt batteries also boast high heat and impact resistance and are =

>> said to be less susceptible to igniting than lithium ion batteries.
>>
>> Sodium is cheaper than lithium because it is in abundant supply. The =

>> new battery is expected to be priced at about Y20,000 per kilowatt- =

>> hour--about 10% as much as domestic lithium ion batteries and one- =

>> fifth as much as Chinese products.
>>
>> But unlike a room-temperature lithium ion battery, the new battery =

>> must be kept at 80 C to output power. So for the time being, Sumitomo =

>> Electric envisions it being used in applications where it is =

>> operating continuously, such as homes and electric buses. The company =

>> and the university have applied to have the battery patented.
>>
>> Molten-salt batteries use highly conductive molten salts as an =

>> electrolyte, and can offer high energy and power densities. The ZEBRA =

>> battery is an example of a molten salt battery. A drawback to the =

>> general class of molten salt batteries has been high operating =

>> temperatures. []
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.ytwhw.com/2011/0304/New-Sumitomo-Electric-Battery-90-Cheap
>> e r-Than-Lithium-Ion-Nikkei.html New Sumitomo Electric Battery 90% =

>> Cheaper Than Lithium Ion Nikkei 2011-03-04 ... Sumitomo Electric =

>> worked with researchers at Kyoto University to develop a sodium =

>> material that melts at 57 C ...
>>
>> Automakers would be
>> able to reduce the space taken up by batteries in their EVs ... boast =

>> high heat and impact resistance and are said to be less susceptible =

>> to igniting than lithium ion batteries.
>>
>> Sodium is cheaper than lithium because it is in abundant supply. The =

>> new battery is expected to be priced at about Y20,000 per kilowatt- =

>> hour--about 10% as much as domestic lithium ion batteries and one- =

>> fifth as much as Chinese products.
>>
>> But unlike a room-temperature lithium ion battery, the new battery =

>> must be kept at 80 C to output power. So for the time being, Sumitomo =

>> Electric envisions it being used in applications where it is =

>> operating continuously, such as homes and electric buses. The company =

>> and the university have applied to have the battery patented.
>> [(C) ytwhw.com All rights reserved]
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=3DArticleURL&_udi=3DB6TG0-4CW3RV
>> Y -3&_user=3D10&_coverDate=3D10%2F15%2F2004&_rdoc=3D1&_fmt=3Dhigh&> l Se=
nt =

>> from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at =

>> Nabble.com.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
>> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was =

> scrubbed...
> URL:
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20110311/6017c889
> /attac
> hment.html
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev




_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

 

[EVDL List]

What's 3 decimal places among friends?

Peri Hartman <[email protected]> wrote:

> Thanks. Acutally I saw that a bit after I sent the message. Always
> happens
> that way
> Peri
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf
> Of Zeke Yewdall
> Sent: 11 March, 2011 1:55 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Low temp molten-salt battery x10 cheaper than
> lithium-ion
>
> Your calculation actually comes out to 43 hours, not 43,000 hours.....
>
> On Friday, March 11, 2011, Peri Hartman <[email protected]> wrote:
> > How much of the battery energy gets "wasted" keeping the battery warm?
> > Here's a guess:
> >
> > Let's start with a hypothetical battery pack. You want 20kWh. Energy
> > density for LiFePo is somewhere around 125 Wh/kg (chime in if you have
> > a better number). Thus, your 20kWh pack would weigh 160kg.
> >
> > According to Sumitomo, their cells will have roughly double the energy
> > density. That means your hypothetical pack would weigh 80kg (wow,
> > that would be awesome!). Ok, a lot of assumptions. More coming.
> > You'll see where I'm going.
> >
> > Next is to guess the specific energy of the Sumitomo cells. Since
> > they are to be molton (another broad assumption coming), I'm going to
> > use the specific energy of water: 1 calorie to heat 1g of water 1 deg
> > celcuis. I have no idea how close this would be to a molten salt -
> > anyone else care to opine?
> >
> > Last assumption: let's say we can insulate the battery so that it
> > looses about 5 deg celcius per hour when near its operating temperature
> of
> 80.
> >
> > Given all that, the calories it would loose per hour (and thus need to
> > replace) = 5deg * 80kg = 400kcal = 400,000 cal.
> > At 4.18J / cal, that's 400,000 * 4.18 = 1,672kJ.
> > 1J = 1Ws (watt*second). So, 1,672kJ = 1,672kWs. Convert to hours: =
> > 1672/3600 = .46kWh.
> >
> > All that means you would need .46kWh per hour, or .46kW, to keep the
> > battery at 80 deg cel. For a 20kWh pack, that means it could heat
> > itself for 20kWh / .46kW = 43,000 hours.
> >
> > I have to admit, this number seems too large. Anyone care to verify
> > my calcs? At any rate, if my assumptions are even within 10%
> > accuracy, heating won't be an issue.
> >
> > Peri Hartman
> >
> >
> >
> > Message-----
> > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> > Behalf Of Jeff Haskell
> > Sent: 11 March, 2011 4:22 AM
> > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> > Cc: brucedp4
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Low temp molten-salt battery x10 cheaper than
> > lithium-ion
> >
> > How much of the increased battery capacity is needed to run heaters to
> > keep them up to temperature? Even if you only got 20% more range,
> > they seem to be a lot more cost-effective.
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 22:38, brucedp4 <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Double the energy density, Sumitomo to commercialize/market by 2015
> >>
> >>
> >> http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/03/low-temperature-molten-salt-battery-
> >> t
> >> en.html
> >> by bw at 3/05/2011 Mar 05 2011
> >> Low temperature molten-salt battery ten times cheaper than lithium
> >> ion by 2015
> >>
> >> Sumitomo Electric Industries Ltd., in partnership with Kyoto
> >> University, has developed a lower temperature molten-salt
> >> rechargeable battery that promises to cost only about 10% as much as
> >> lithium ion batteries. Sumitomo intends to commercialize the battery
> >> around 2015 and market it as an alternative to lithium-ion batteries
> >> used in automobiles and homes.
> >>
> >> The new battery uses sodium-containing substances melted at a high
> >> temperature. The technology has been around for decades, but existing
> >> molten-salt batteries require keeping the electrolyte in a liquid
> >> state at a temperature higher than 300 C. Sumitomo Electric worked
> >> with researchers at Kyoto University to develop a sodium material
> >> that melts at 57 C.
> >>
> >> Having roughly double the energy density of a typical lithium ion
> >> battery, the new battery would let an electric vehicle travel twice
> >> as far as a lithium ion battery of the same size. Automakers would be
> >> able to reduce the space taken up by batteries in their EVs. Molten-
> >> salt batteries also boast high heat and impact resistance and are
> >> said to be less susceptible to igniting than lithium ion batteries.
> >>
> >> Sodium is cheaper than lithium because it is in abundant supply. The
> >> new battery is expected to be priced at about Y20,000 per kilowatt-
> >> hour--about 10% as much as domestic lithium ion batteries and one-
> >> fifth as much as Chinese products.
> >>
> >> But unlike a room-temperature lithium ion battery, the new battery
> >> must be kept at 80 C to output power. So for the time being, Sumitomo
> >> Electric envisions it being used in applications where it is
> >> operating continuously, such as homes and electric buses. The company
> >> and the university have applied to have the battery patented.
> >>
> >> Molten-salt batteries use highly conductive molten salts as an
> >> electrolyte, and can offer high energy and power densities. The ZEBRA
> >> battery is an example of a molten salt battery. A drawback to the
> >> general class of molten salt batteries has been high operating
> >> temperatures. []
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> http://www.ytwhw.com/2011/0304/New-Sumitomo-Electric-Battery-90-Cheap
> >> e r-Than-Lithium-Ion-Nikkei.html New Sumitomo Electric Battery 90%
> >> Cheaper Than Lithium Ion Nikkei 2011-03-04 ... Sumitomo Electric
> >> worked with researchers at Kyoto University to develop a sodium
> >> material that melts at 57 C ...
> >>
> >> Automakers would be
> >> able to reduce the space taken up by batteries in their EVs ... boast
> >> high heat and impact resistance and are said to be less susceptible
> >> to igniting than lithium ion batteries.
> >>
> >> Sodium is cheaper than lithium because it is in abundant supply. The
> >> new battery is expected to be priced at about Y20,000 per kilowatt-
> >> hour--about 10% as much as domestic lithium ion batteries and one-
> >> fifth as much as Chinese products.
> >>
> >> But unlike a room-temperature lithium ion battery, the new battery
> >> must be kept at 80 C to output power. So for the time being, Sumitomo
> >> Electric envisions it being used in applications where it is
> >> operating continuously, such as homes and electric buses. The company
> >> and the university have applied to have the battery patented.
> >> [(C) ytwhw.com All rights reserved]
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TG0-4CW3RV
> >> Y -3&_user=10&_coverDate=10%2F15%2F2004&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&> l Sent
> >> from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> >> Nabble.com.
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> >> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> >> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> >> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> >> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >>
> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
> > scrubbed...
> > URL:
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20110311/6017c889
> > /attac
> > hment.html
> > _______________________________________________
> > | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> > | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> > | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> > | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> > | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> > | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> > | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20110311/403bbdce/attachment.html
_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

 

[EVDL List]

I recently say a paper that said a ZEBRA will use 14% of it's capacity to
keep itself warm in a day. Wiki says ZEBRA has 18% self discharge.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molten_salt_battery#ZEBRA_battery

Peri Hartman wrote:
>
> How much of the battery energy gets "wasted" keeping the battery warm?
>
>


--
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Low-temp-molten-salt-battery-x10-cheaper-than-lithium-ion-tp3347400p3350665.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev