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That's cool Jeff
what about buying the raw elements and making the LiFePO4 chemical
yourself too? would that reduce the cost a lot?
sure one would have to be clever several times to get something working
but it would be soo cool : )
even if it didn't work too well but imagine having an EV with homebuilt
lithium batteries

it has a very high in your face rating

Dan

Jeff Shanab wrote:
> I looked into making my own lithium-ion cells. The lithium cobolt
> material was to expensive to purchase and come out ahead but I found
> sources for the liFePo4 that wern't to bad, just not in the US. The US
> companies wanted trainload min quantities, up front annual purchase
> aggreements etc.
>
> in a nut shell, lithium ion prismatic cell construction
> there are 2 sets of chemicals and plates, LiFePo4 and aluminum
> and graphite and copper. cant remember which goes with which w/o looking
> it up)
> For high capacity lower amp cells a very fine mesh screen is
> avail see fukowa foils on PRED battery materials web site.
> mix chemicals with binder. Now available in water based that can
> be used in open atmosphere safely for the cell and for the employee.
> spread mix onto plates, collander (run thru pressure rollers.)
> dry plates
> while dry assemble (usually done in argon filled chamber)
> plate-seperator-plate ...
> zero scale
> pull vacuum on cell, this serves as leak test and is how you get
> electrolyte in.
> allow vacuum to pull in electrolyte, seal.
> commission charge.
>
> If you go to the scientific and education supply houses you can buy the
> chemicals but the prices were 1000 to 10,000 times the price for a few
> grams or kilograms that you'd pay if from an industrial supplier.
> One of the points stressed in the original LiFePo4 research
> documentation was the low environmental and decreased cost over
> nimh,LiCo, and LiMg cells. It was always touted as a replacement for
> lead at approximatly twice the raw material costs but 4 times the energy
> density. I think this was overly optimistic from the typical research
> perspective. Actual costs are higher.
>
> All in all I am guesing/hoping that the prices will drop in half in the
> next year or two.
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Right. There are many suppliers on the planet who sell electrode
materials. Biggest issue is some of the equipment. They cost a lot, but
a hobbyist can make them.

The process it self how to make a cell is not complicated. You just need
to know when and how.

Would it be fun to be able to buy a DIY package for Lion cells ?

But.. Making these batteries really requires steady and continous
process. I mean IF you're looking for good quality.

But I believe there will be hundreds of factories pushing Lions and that
will have effect on prices.

I would say that making the cell it self is not an issue anymore. Making
functional vehicles with good quality and long life is a bit problematic.


-Jukka


Jeff Shanab kirjoitti:
> At the moment, making the chemical yourself is not cost effective, a
> completely different type of business that only is profitable if large
> batches are made. There are companies that specialize in making these
> pre-cursers and make other chemicals to. It would be like making your
> own steel for building a car. Why bother?
>
>
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Has anyone been able to test out the Firefly batteries yet? It seems like that technology has the potential for a quicker rollout if there were enough industry interest.





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