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Discussion Starter #1
In my quest to buld or have built a simple solid connection between my WarP 9 motor shaft and the splines of an old clutch disc, I was told to find some "internally keyed tubing stock". I have searched high and low and no one seems to know what this is.

So is there such a thing as "internally keyed tubing stock" or was the person who recommended finding it just pulling my leg?

If there is where can I get some?

Thanks,

Dave Delman
1981 DeLorean Conversion

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Discussion Starter #2
Normally this made by a machine shop from a solid
piece of stock then a keyway is cut with a broach to
match the one on the shaft. however how that would
match to a clutch spline i do not know unless you
started with a piece of the splined material that fit
in the clutch originally.


--- Dave Delman <[email protected]> wrote:

> In my quest to buld or have built a simple solid
> connection between my WarP 9 motor shaft and the
> splines of an old clutch disc, I was told to find
> some "internally keyed tubing stock". I have
> searched high and low and no one seems to know what
> this is.
>
> So is there such a thing as "internally keyed tubing
> stock" or was the person who recommended finding it
> just pulling my leg?
>
> If there is where can I get some?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave Delman
> 1981 DeLorean Conversion
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>




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Discussion Starter #3
Well, this is not "internally keyed tubing stock" but...

How about using a Ruland shaft coupler? I am using the CLC-18-18-F
(shown at <http://www.ruland.com/ps_couplings_rigid_clc.asp>) in my
EV beach buggy. I recently shorted on the old Curtis 1221b and
punched at least 1000 amps through my motor into a stalled Prestolite
motor without any issue (well, the controller has serious issues but
not the coupler :)

Paul Gooch

Dave Delman wrote:

> In my quest to buld or have built a simple solid connection between
> my WarP 9 motor shaft and the splines of an old clutch disc, I was
> told to find some "internally keyed tubing stock". I have searched
> high and low and no one seems to know what this is.
>
> So is there such a thing as "internally keyed tubing stock" or was
> the person who recommended finding it just pulling my leg?
>
> If there is where can I get some?

_______________________________________________
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http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Hey Dave, Check out McMaster Car on-line catalog Pg 1112, Rigid couplings. I
couldn't find internally keyed tubing, but if you really want to use tubing,
you could probably find some thickwall tubing and broach a keyway thru it
yourself. All this stuff is probably available from McMaster Carr. I would
probably go for the heavy duty 4-bolt clamp-on coupler that has a finished
bore diameter to match your motor on one side and you can have the other
side bored to fit your splined clutch hub. Of course the outside diameter of
your splined clutch hub will probably be machined to fit inside the coupler.
You really need a heavy duty, solid, concentric connection to your motor
shaft. Your local bearing supplier should be able to set you up with a nice
beefy shaft coupler (that WarP 9 motor gots alots a torque). Smoke the
tires, not the motor coupling! :>) Later Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Delman" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 3:58 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Motor Coupler


> In my quest to buld or have built a simple solid connection between my
> WarP 9 motor shaft and the splines of an old clutch disc, I was told to
> find some "internally keyed tubing stock". I have searched high and low
> and no one seems to know what this is.
>
> So is there such a thing as "internally keyed tubing stock" or was the
> person who recommended finding it just pulling my leg?
>
> If there is where can I get some?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave Delman
> 1981 DeLorean Conversion
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
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Discussion Starter #5
Hello Dave,

If you want to connect the splines of a clutch disk to the motor output
shaft, get a tube stock from a machine shop that is already bore out to
1-1/8 inch inside diameter to fit the Warp 9 and large enough out side
diameter to weld the spline section of the disk that you remove from. Some
times the machinist may have to increase the bore to 0.001 over, otherwise
it may go on. I will check the motor shaft diameter with a dial indicator
and give this info to the machinist for the correct over bore. Have a key
way install to fit the motor.

To center the clutch spline onto this shaft and so its center for inserting
into the motor, pick up a clutch center tool from a auto parts store which
is plastic spline duplication of a transmission shaft. Before welding the
clutch spline to the coupler, dry fit the coupler to the motor shaft with
the pilot bushing install in the motor shaft and insert the spline onto the
clutch centering tool and insert it into the motor shaft. Tack weld the
clutch spline and than remove it for finishing welding.


The transmission pilot shaft than inserts into this spline and the nose of
the transmission shaft should insert into the Warp 9 bore out shaft which
centers the transmission. Use a bronze bushing to insert into the motor
shaft.

I use a standard pilot bronze bushing that you can get from a auto parts
store or transmission shop and have the machinist turn it down to fit into
the motor output shaft. Some times the machine shop will have stock
bushings that he can use.

Instead on one set screw that is normally install in the coupler and place
to push against the key, install four keys 90 degrees apart. Three on the
set screws will press against the motor shaft and one set screw on top of
the key. The key set screw is shorter than the other three set screws, so
they all will stick out the same same distance or you may have some
unbalance.

At first I had only one set screw which work loose after a while and the
soft key also work loose, So I had four 5/16 inch hex head keys that can be
use with a socket that I can torque to the requirements for that size bolt.
I also use removable LockTite on the threads.

I also had the machine shop provide me with a key made out of tool steel,
the same type they use for cutting tools on the lathe. This key will fit
very tight.

Roland




----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Delman" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 4:58 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Motor Coupler


> In my quest to buld or have built a simple solid connection between my
> WarP 9 motor shaft and the splines of an old clutch disc, I was told to
> find some "internally keyed tubing stock". I have searched high and low
> and no one seems to know what this is.
>
> So is there such a thing as "internally keyed tubing stock" or was the
> person who recommended finding it just pulling my leg?
>
> If there is where can I get some?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave Delman
> 1981 DeLorean Conversion
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I have seen this type of stuff for tractor implements, but I think this
is the wrong way to go.

If you drive of the key, it will shear off and muck up the shaft. If you
have set screws, it will be forced off center and wobble.
You need taperlock.

I made my own taperlock, the bushing is keyed and split. I have the
broach kit. it is a headed bushing with a keyway and a broach you push
thru with a hydraulic press. Then you increase the shims behind it and
repeat until you get the depth you want. Simple, Manual, and effective.
Are you anywhere near central california?
I no longer have access to a machine shop but can loan the broach. You
can spend a day at techshop and be done with it.

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Discussion Starter #8
If I was going to do this coupling this way I would consider makeing one
with a undersized bore by ,003 to ,005.(get out the machinist handbook
and calculator)

Stand the motor on end and heat the bushing up to a slight dull red and
drop it on the motor shaft with the key in the motor shaft.
One swift motion. no hesitation.

This is the most concentric method with the least chance of play or
migration that can cause problems. Taper lock is a close second.

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Discussion Starter #9
Yes, a taperlock works good, if you have the face of the taperlock bushing
open, so you can tighten up the set screws in the face of the taperlock
bushing. This is what I have now, but there are problems I have with it.

You cannot weld a clutch spline to the face of the taperlock coupler to keep
this type of coupler short. You would have to install another short shaft
with the clutch spline on it to insert it into the taperlock bushing if you
have the room for it and a very thick adapter plate.

On my Warp 9 which uses the standard flywheel and clutch it push the
transmission back another 2 inches which uses a two piece adapter plate that
is 2.75 inches thick. This installation would work if you design the vehicle
around the placement of the motor, but not as a spare replace in a existing
installation. You would have to move the clutch and shifter mechanism.

I either would have to shorten up the drive shaft has or use a short
transmission tail shaft on the transmission. So I use a transmission tail
shaft that is 4 inches long instead of 6 inches and use a cable control
shifter.

Roland






----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 5:26 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Coupler


> I have seen this type of stuff for tractor implements, but I think this
> is the wrong way to go.
>
> If you drive of the key, it will shear off and muck up the shaft. If you
> have set screws, it will be forced off center and wobble.
> You need taperlock.
>
> I made my own taperlock, the bushing is keyed and split. I have the
> broach kit. it is a headed bushing with a keyway and a broach you push
> thru with a hydraulic press. Then you increase the shims behind it and
> repeat until you get the depth you want. Simple, Manual, and effective.
> Are you anywhere near central california?
> I no longer have access to a machine shop but can loan the broach. You
> can spend a day at techshop and be done with it.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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Discussion Starter #10
i am going clutchless and am planning to use a coupling from lovejoy

http://www.lovejoy-inc.com/content.aspx?id=380

-sandman

Dave Delman wrote:
> In my quest to buld or have built a simple solid connection between my WarP 9 motor shaft and the splines of an old clutch disc, I was told to find some "internally keyed tubing stock". I have searched high and low and no one seems to know what this is.
>
> So is there such a thing as "internally keyed tubing stock" or was the person who recommended finding it just pulling my leg?
>
> If there is where can I get some?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave Delman
> 1981 DeLorean Conversion
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
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Discussion Starter #11
So it seems that this really is no such thing as "internally keyed tubing
stock" after all.


Thanks to Bob Martin and Paul Gooch who pointed out the One-Piece Clamp-On
Shaft Couplings from McMaster Carr and Ruland, which seem to be the same
products.






Thank you,

Dave Delman
1981 Electric DeLorean Project



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Discussion Starter #12
Hello Dave,

I forgot to mention in my last e-mail about the motor coupler, that there is
shafts that come in 6-inch lengths with only two set screws to fit any key
shaft you want. They are call solid shaft couplers.

I just bought one last month for extending the pilot shaft off the front of
the motor about another 3 inches. I cut it in half and install two more set
screws. I got my from a machine shop that sells Browning or Dodge power
transmission items, such as pulleys, belts, clutches, shafts, bearings, etc.

As for bearings, I normally change the motor bearings about every 10 years
at the time, I break the motor down for cleaning, commentator
reconditioning, re enamel, testing and paint. I use GE high temperature
motor seal bearings that are design for that motor that I get from a motor
repair shop. Sometimes you can get this bearings from a Bearing Sales which
other brand like TRW are equal to the electric motor brand specifications.

I just finish a new design of a motor coupler for a 11 inch motor that is
now at the machine shop right now. They cut off the crank flange of a new
steel forge crank, (not cast) which is a large flange. They machine it for
a taper lock bushing and it allows my transmission pilot shaft go all the
way through into the motor with is bore out for a transmission pilot
bushing. This can be done, because the motor shaft is 1-3/8 inch diameter.

I than can shorten up my overall distance of the motor-transmission length
by 2 inches.

Instead of using a flywheel or clutch, I use a another steel flange that
bolts directly to this coupler flange which has a machine spline tube that
slides into this flange. The transmission pilot shaft than slides into this
shaft.

tci.com has these tubes that are normally design for automatic
transmissions. The transmission pilot tube slides into this tube.

In your case, you could cut this tube down to size and weld the clutch disk
spline to this tube or to a section of a transmission input shaft that can
be insert into this tube.

It is best to not have such a solid connection between the motor and
transmission, because the thrust between the transmission and motor can take
out these bearings.

This transmission tube is allow to float about 1/8 to 3/16 of a inch to
allow flexing. This is what the clutch plate does in a manual transmission
or a flex plate does in a automatic.

Roland


----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Coupler


>
>
> So it seems that this really is no such thing as "internally keyed tubing
> stock" after all.
>
>
> Thanks to Bob Martin and Paul Gooch who pointed out the One-Piece
> Clamp-On
> Shaft Couplings from McMaster Carr and Ruland, which seem to be the same
> products.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Dave Delman
> 1981 Electric DeLorean Project
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's new at
> http://www.aol.com
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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Discussion Starter #13
Have a look at this taper lock, no face to deal with.

http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/dsc00059.jpg view from front. that is the
flywheel, the 6 inner bolts are to the taper lock
http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/dsc00061.jpg The other side
http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/dsc00067.jpg The bushing as it sits on the
shaft.
http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/dsc00071.jpg With the tilton 5-1/4 triple
plate, that is a small block chevy crank adapter

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Discussion Starter #14
So if I'm looking at this right, what you've got is three pieces, taper lock
bushing, a hub that looks like a Chevy crank, and a small Tilton "flywheel"
that bolts to the hub for the Tilton clutch assembly to bolt to? The motor
shaft is drilled for athe pilot shaft to shorten the adapter? So any
balanced Chevy flywheel could bolt to that hub? Large or small Chevy
flywheel pattern? How about that motor adapter, what does that adapt to?

If that hub is what I think it is, I know what I want for Christmas :).

Marty

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 11:29 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Coupler


> Have a look at this taper lock, no face to deal with.
>
> http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/dsc00059.jpg view from front. that is the
> flywheel, the 6 inner bolts are to the taper lock
> http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/dsc00061.jpg The other side
> http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/dsc00067.jpg The bushing as it sits on the
> shaft.
> http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/dsc00071.jpg With the tilton 5-1/4 triple
> plate, that is a small block chevy crank adapter
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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