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Discussion Starter #1
http://www.lvrj.com/drive/car-jargon-what-is-mpge-112707114.html?ref=3D114
Wondering what MPGe means? by STAN HANEL PLUGGED IN Dec 31 2010
... comparing fuel efficiency and overall energy usage between =

[plug-in] hybrids and conventional gasoline-powered vehicles is =

tricky, since plug-in electric hybrids refuel from both electric and =

gasoline sources. To address this, the EPA now measures the distance =

traveled by each new vehicle relative to each unit of energy consumed.
The new energy-consumption standard is called "miles per gallon =

equivalent," or MPGe.

MPGe allows competing vehicle platforms to be compared by defining =

distance traveled in miles, divided by the amount of energy units =

consumed. This performance is then compared to the equivalent energy =

available in a gallon of gasoline.

As an example, the Nissan Leaf is a car with an electric motor that =

is propelled by a battery pack. The equivalent energy usage for miles =

traveled compared to a gasoline vehicle is 99 MPGe, even though the =

Leaf will never consume an ounce of gasoline. Unlike gasoline =

vehicles, the electric Nissan Leaf is recharged from an electrical =

outlet. It will perform better in the city (106 MPGe) than on the =

highway (92 MPGe) because it consumes no energy when stopped at =

traffic stoplights. This EPA information will be featured on the =

Monroney window sticker for the Nissan Leaf when it is rolled out in =

2011.

MPGe compares the energy in one gallon of gasoline to an equivalent =

33.7 kilowatt-hours of electrical energy stored in the vehicle's =

battery pack. A "watt" is a measurement unit that shows how much =

electric power can be delivered by a battery pack to drive an =

electric motor. A "kilowatt" measures electric power in 1,000-watt =

increments. A "kilowatt-hour" measures electrical energy in the =

battery pack by showing how long it can deliver this power =

continuously over time.

The kilowatt-hour is used to show the amount of electrical energy =

stored in a battery pack, in the same way that gallons of gasoline =

are used as a unit of measurement for the relative volume of fuel =

stored in a gasoline tank. For example, the Nissan Leaf will employ =

a battery pack with a 24 kilowatt-hour capacity that can deliver 24 =

kilowatts of power to the electric motor over one hour, 12 kilowatts =

of power over two hours, six kilowatts of power over four hours, or =

three kilowatts of power over eight hours depending on driving =

conditions, acceleration, temperature and speed.

Even though the potential energy in the Nissan Leaf battery pack is =

less than one gallon of gas (24 kilowatt-hours compared to 33.7 =

kilowatt-hours), an electric-motor drive train converts this energy to
propulsion power at the wheels with an efficiency that is three to =

four times greater than a gasoline engine. Much of the potential =

energy consumed by an internal combustion engine is lost as waste =

heat through the exhaust pipes and engine block.

Nevertheless, a 10-gallon tank of gasoline with the equivalent of 337
kilowatt-hours of potential energy can propel most of today's internal
combustion engine cars about 300 miles between fill-ups. By =

comparison, the Monroney sticker on the Nissan Leaf shows that it =

will need to be recharged about every 73 miles under practical =

driving conditions.

Another factor influencing a purchasing decision is cost of ownership
over time, including the price of the energy to replenish the =

vehicle's propulsion system. Electricity costs significantly less than
gasoline to propel a vehicle and this gap will widen if the price of =

gasoline continues to rise. The annual cost to purchase the energy =

needed to recharge the Nissan Leaf, if driving it 15,000 miles per =

year, is forecast to be about $561 at 12 cents per kilowatt-hour ...
[=A9 Stephens Media LLC 1997 - 2011]
...
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/dec/12/business/la-fi-ev-ratings-20101212
Electric vehicles may bring new sticker shock: multiple mileage ratings
How do you gauge fuel economy when there's no gasoline?
Government agencies can't agree By Tiffany Hsu Dec 12 2010
According to the government, the car with the highest mileage per =

gallon on the market doesn't use a single drop of gasoline.

The 2011 Nissan Leaf, which was scheduled to be delivered to its =

first California customers this weekend, runs entirely on battery. But
the Environmental Protection Agency says it can travel 99 miles on the
equivalent of a single gallon of fuel.

Confused? You're not alone. The mileage-equivalent ratings, meant to =

help potential buyers compare electric cars with others in their =

class, are befuddling some consumers who see them as an automotive =

example of comparing apples and oranges. And that's just one of the =

conundrums shoppers will face when more electric vehicles begin =

arriving in showrooms this month.

The EPA isn't the only entity comparing the clean-fuel cars with autos
that have traditional internal combustion engines. Their ratings, =

which will be posted on car windows, may end up sharing space with =

stickers from the Federal Trade Commission and the automakers =

themselves.

That's some crowded glass.
"It's a whole new world that needs to be rated," Nissan spokeswoman =

Jeannine Ginivan said. "It is for sure complicated, since there is =

really no gallon. For now, the consumer is going to have to decipher =

everything and see how to make it work for them."

Traditionally, the fuel economy rating for vehicles with internal =

combustion engines is calculated from emissions generated during a =

series of tests.

Things got hairy with the Leaf. The EPA worked out a formula in which
an electric car using 33.7 kilowatt-hours of electricity was =

considered equivalent to a standard vehicle using a gallon of =

gasoline. Because there wasn't any physical fuel, the rating was =

renamed miles-per-gallon-equivalent, or mpge.

The electric vehicle will be sold with a sticker saying that it can =

reach up to 106 mpge in the city. The previous record-holder, the =

Toyota Prius hybrid, was rated at 51 mpg in urban settings.

The Leaf score is straightforward compared with the one given to the =

2011 Chevrolet Volt, a hybrid plug-in that switches to gasoline when =

its electricity supply runs out.

The Volt doesn't just have an overall rating. In addition to an =

umbrella figure of 60 mpge, the government gave it a 93-mpge rating =

for when the Volt is driven only in its electric mode and a 37-mpg =

figure for when it uses gasoline only. But few if any Volt drivers =

will stick to just one mode. They are more likely to use gas and =

electricity in varying ratios. [Copyright 2011 Los Angeles Times]
...
http://autoblog.xprize.org/axp/2009/08/calculating-mpge.html
Calculating MPGe
...
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/10174594/MPGe-Calculator
MPGe-Calculator
...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monroney_sticker
Monroney sticker





http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Why-the-plug-i=
n-push-DoE-quot-resident-expert-quot-yaks-EV-facts-td3178193.html

{brucedp.150m.com}



=


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Registered
Joined
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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
So, to avoid people having to learn a little physics and actually
understanding how their car worked, they designed a tag that's confusing
people and does't represent reality.... I could have predicted that.... :0

On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 1:38 AM, Bruce Parmenter <[email protected]>wro=
te:

>
> http://www.lvrj.com/drive/car-jargon-what-is-mpge-112707114.html?ref=3D114
> Wondering what MPGe means? by STAN HANEL PLUGGED IN Dec 31 2010
> ... comparing fuel efficiency and overall energy usage between
> [plug-in] hybrids and conventional gasoline-powered vehicles is
> tricky, since plug-in electric hybrids refuel from both electric and
> gasoline sources. To address this, the EPA now measures the distance
> traveled by each new vehicle relative to each unit of energy consumed.
> The new energy-consumption standard is called "miles per gallon
> equivalent," or MPGe.
>
> MPGe allows competing vehicle platforms to be compared by defining
> distance traveled in miles, divided by the amount of energy units
> consumed. This performance is then compared to the equivalent energy
> available in a gallon of gasoline.
>
> As an example, the Nissan Leaf is a car with an electric motor that
> is propelled by a battery pack. The equivalent energy usage for miles
> traveled compared to a gasoline vehicle is 99 MPGe, even though the
> Leaf will never consume an ounce of gasoline. Unlike gasoline
> vehicles, the electric Nissan Leaf is recharged from an electrical
> outlet. It will perform better in the city (106 MPGe) than on the
> highway (92 MPGe) because it consumes no energy when stopped at
> traffic stoplights. This EPA information will be featured on the
> Monroney window sticker for the Nissan Leaf when it is rolled out in
> 2011.
>
> MPGe compares the energy in one gallon of gasoline to an equivalent
> 33.7 kilowatt-hours of electrical energy stored in the vehicle's
> battery pack. A "watt" is a measurement unit that shows how much
> electric power can be delivered by a battery pack to drive an
> electric motor. A "kilowatt" measures electric power in 1,000-watt
> increments. A "kilowatt-hour" measures electrical energy in the
> battery pack by showing how long it can deliver this power
> continuously over time.
>
> The kilowatt-hour is used to show the amount of electrical energy
> stored in a battery pack, in the same way that gallons of gasoline
> are used as a unit of measurement for the relative volume of fuel
> stored in a gasoline tank. For example, the Nissan Leaf will employ
> a battery pack with a 24 kilowatt-hour capacity that can deliver 24
> kilowatts of power to the electric motor over one hour, 12 kilowatts
> of power over two hours, six kilowatts of power over four hours, or
> three kilowatts of power over eight hours depending on driving
> conditions, acceleration, temperature and speed.
>
> Even though the potential energy in the Nissan Leaf battery pack is
> less than one gallon of gas (24 kilowatt-hours compared to 33.7
> kilowatt-hours), an electric-motor drive train converts this energy to
> propulsion power at the wheels with an efficiency that is three to
> four times greater than a gasoline engine. Much of the potential
> energy consumed by an internal combustion engine is lost as waste
> heat through the exhaust pipes and engine block.
>
> Nevertheless, a 10-gallon tank of gasoline with the equivalent of 337
> kilowatt-hours of potential energy can propel most of today's internal
> combustion engine cars about 300 miles between fill-ups. By
> comparison, the Monroney sticker on the Nissan Leaf shows that it
> will need to be recharged about every 73 miles under practical
> driving conditions.
>
> Another factor influencing a purchasing decision is cost of ownership
> over time, including the price of the energy to replenish the
> vehicle's propulsion system. Electricity costs significantly less than
> gasoline to propel a vehicle and this gap will widen if the price of
> gasoline continues to rise. The annual cost to purchase the energy
> needed to recharge the Nissan Leaf, if driving it 15,000 miles per
> year, is forecast to be about $561 at 12 cents per kilowatt-hour ...
> [=A9 Stephens Media LLC 1997 - 2011]
> ...
> http://articles.latimes.com/2010/dec/12/business/la-fi-ev-ratings-20101212
> Electric vehicles may bring new sticker shock: multiple mileage ratings
> How do you gauge fuel economy when there's no gasoline?
> Government agencies can't agree By Tiffany Hsu Dec 12 2010
> According to the government, the car with the highest mileage per
> gallon on the market doesn't use a single drop of gasoline.
>
> The 2011 Nissan Leaf, which was scheduled to be delivered to its
> first California customers this weekend, runs entirely on battery. But
> the Environmental Protection Agency says it can travel 99 miles on the
> equivalent of a single gallon of fuel.
>
> Confused? You're not alone. The mileage-equivalent ratings, meant to
> help potential buyers compare electric cars with others in their
> class, are befuddling some consumers who see them as an automotive
> example of comparing apples and oranges. And that's just one of the
> conundrums shoppers will face when more electric vehicles begin
> arriving in showrooms this month.
>
> The EPA isn't the only entity comparing the clean-fuel cars with autos
> that have traditional internal combustion engines. Their ratings,
> which will be posted on car windows, may end up sharing space with
> stickers from the Federal Trade Commission and the automakers
> themselves.
>
> That's some crowded glass.
> "It's a whole new world that needs to be rated," Nissan spokeswoman
> Jeannine Ginivan said. "It is for sure complicated, since there is
> really no gallon. For now, the consumer is going to have to decipher
> everything and see how to make it work for them."
>
> Traditionally, the fuel economy rating for vehicles with internal
> combustion engines is calculated from emissions generated during a
> series of tests.
>
> Things got hairy with the Leaf. The EPA worked out a formula in which
> an electric car using 33.7 kilowatt-hours of electricity was
> considered equivalent to a standard vehicle using a gallon of
> gasoline. Because there wasn't any physical fuel, the rating was
> renamed miles-per-gallon-equivalent, or mpge.
>
> The electric vehicle will be sold with a sticker saying that it can
> reach up to 106 mpge in the city. The previous record-holder, the
> Toyota Prius hybrid, was rated at 51 mpg in urban settings.
>
> The Leaf score is straightforward compared with the one given to the
> 2011 Chevrolet Volt, a hybrid plug-in that switches to gasoline when
> its electricity supply runs out.
>
> The Volt doesn't just have an overall rating. In addition to an
> umbrella figure of 60 mpge, the government gave it a 93-mpge rating
> for when the Volt is driven only in its electric mode and a 37-mpg
> figure for when it uses gasoline only. But few if any Volt drivers
> will stick to just one mode. They are more likely to use gas and
> electricity in varying ratios. [Copyright 2011 Los Angeles Times]
> ...
> http://autoblog.xprize.org/axp/2009/08/calculating-mpge.html
> Calculating MPGe
> ...
> http://www.docstoc.com/docs/10174594/MPGe-Calculator
> MPGe-Calculator
> ...
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monroney_sticker
> Monroney sticker
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Why-the-plug=
-in-push-DoE-quot-resident-expert-quot-yaks-EV-facts-td3178193.html
>
> {brucedp.150m.com}
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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>
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Discussion Starter #3
Zeke Yewdall wrote:

> So, to avoid people having to learn a little physics and actually
> understanding how their car worked, they designed a tag that's
> confusing
> people and does't represent reality.... I could have predicted
> that.... :0


Oh come on... the average American consumer does not know any
physics. They have to dumb it down. We live in a very ignorant
society.


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Discussion Starter #4
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Heuckeroth" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 7:48 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] MPGe sticker shock: a hairy conundrum on crowded glass


>
>
Zeke Yewdall wrote:
>
> > So, to avoid people having to learn a little physics and actually
> > understanding how their car worked, they designed a tag that's
> > confusing
> > people and does't represent reality.... I could have predicted
> > that.... :0
>
>
> Oh come on... the average American consumer does not know any
> physics. They have to dumb it down. We live in a very ignorant
> society.
>
Yes, I found that out a long time ago. If I try to explain how my EV works,
there mine goes blank.

So now if a person that is not that knowledgeable in electrical systems that
ask me how it works, I tell them it works the same way you car works.

As you approach the car, you pull out your keys and open the door as you do.

You then put the key in the ignition switch as you do and turn it to on
which turns on the 12 volt power on as it does in your car.

Then you continue to turn the ignition switch to the start position which
turns on the electric fuel to the fuel controller as it does in your car.

Then you select the direction you want to go from neutral to forward or
reverse as in your car.

And then you push the accelerator to make it go. You watch the electric
fuel gage to see how much electric fuel you use which determines how far you
can go as in your car.

They finally ask me how long does it take to charge. I said, when I get
back home, (which is a mile down hill), it takes 5 minutes which is about
the same amount of time to fuel your vehicle.

Roland

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Discussion Starter #5
>Oh come on... the average American consumer does not know any =

physics. They have to dumb it down. We live in a very ignorant =

society.

As I was standing in line at Wal-Mart just last week, a venue I very rarely
visit, I realized that the human race is in top contention for the Darwin
Award. =



Buddy Mills
[email protected]

Look mom, no gas. http://www.evalbum.com/2887

Disclaimer: No animals were harmed or killed in the process of writing this
email. Any stories to the contrary are, for the most part, either fictional
or greatly exaggerated. =



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