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Discussion Starter #1
Hello,

Today I had a man stop at my front door and offer me $7500 for my 1975 VW EV
with the 1941 Ford hood which was added to allow more room for the huge 12
Volt batteries it first had. It has a Curtis controller, 8" Advance DC
motor, new Yokohama dB Super E-Spec tires with probably less than 100 miles,
a new Delta-Q 96 Volt charger, 16 6-Volt lead acid batteries which are a few
years old but have been kept charged and are lightly used as my driving
could be done in a NEV. It has new bucket seats and is in quite nice
condition, thanks to the wonderful work Bob Anderson did rebuilding it a few
years ago. I have been thinking about selling it as it has become difficult
for me to get in and out due to a hip problem, but I would like it to be
adopted by an EV enthusiast rather than a guy running around looking for
cars to sell on Ebay. He said he could probably double his money, which I
doubt from seeing the prices on other EVs. I worry that someone might
convert it back to an ICE, as another man told me he would do if I sold him
my Bradley EV years ago. Fortunately the Bradley went to one of the first
EAA members here in Las Vegas and is being totally and beautifully restored
as an EV. I guess I am wondering if I would be throwing away a fabulous
deal if I don't take the $7500 and instead offer the car for sale through
the LVEVA to find an appropriate owner. This is currently my only running
car so I would have to have one of my Citicars rebuilt or look for an NEV.
No, I don't need a Leaf to drive less than 10 miles a week at 30 mph. A
nice wheelchair may be my next EV. This buyer asked if I would turn the car
on so he could hear that it runs, so I don't think he has clue one about
EVs. I expect he would not know he could ruin the motor and batteries if he
is not careful driving it. I haven't advertised the car, was not expecting
an offer all of a sudden, so am in a bit of a dilemna. The guy who claims
to carry all this cash in his pocket as he searches neighborhoods for cars
is supposed to come back Friday and I would really like some input from
others who care about EVs as to what they think I should do. You are the
only people who would understand why I wouldn't just take the money and run.

Thanks for any opinions or comments.

Gail
Las Vegas


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Discussion Starter #2
A few thoughts.

First, you'd want to check out this buyer to make sure he's not running some
kind of a scam. This situation doesn't quite pass the sniff test in my
book.

Second, if you're having physical trouble getting into and out of a VW
(sorry to hear that), are you sure you'll find a C-car any more comfortable?

Third, you say you don't need or want a Leaf, and I'm sure that's true.
However, it's exactly what you've been waiting for all the years that I've
known you - a real production EV that you can have serviced by the dealer.
(It is rather pricey, however.)

Finally, do you need the money? (Rhetorical question.) If it were mine and
I didn't absolutely have to score $7,500 for the car, I'd sell it to an EVer
I knew would appreciate it, even if it sold for less.

David Roden
EVDL Administrator
http://www.evdl.org/


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Discussion Starter #3
Gail,
It sounds like you have a nice conversion there, I doubt that it would sell for
$7500 on Ebay.
I recommend you be very cautious if you deal with this person. If you decide to
deal with him, make sure you have someone you trust to be there to help.
I have a 73 super vw that I have listed on the EV Trading Post right now. (Also
listed on DIY Electric Car Forum) It is a bit rough and needs work, but I am
only asking $2800 for it and have only had a few responses to my ad. There are
many vehicles listed for sale and have been there for a while.
I also had a Bradley GTE a few years ago. http://www.evalbum.com/1086 I bought
the body and pan with the battery box. All electrical components and seats were
gone. I gathered parts and put it back on the road, sold it on Ebay $5000 in
2007.

Bill



________________________________
From: Gail Lucas <[email protected]>
To: EVDL <[email protected]>
Sent: Wed, October 27, 2010 2:08:33 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Need help deciding on VW offer

Hello,

Today I had a man stop at my front door and offer me $7500 for my 1975 VW EV
with the 1941 Ford hood which was added to allow more room for the huge 12
Volt batteries it first had. It has a Curtis controller, 8" Advance DC
motor, new Yokohama dB Super E-Spec tires with probably less than 100 miles,
a new Delta-Q 96 Volt charger, 16 6-Volt lead acid batteries which are a few
years old but have been kept charged and are lightly used as my driving
could be done in a NEV. It has new bucket seats and is in quite nice
condition, thanks to the wonderful work Bob Anderson did rebuilding it a few
years ago. I have been thinking about selling it as it has become difficult
for me to get in and out due to a hip problem, but I would like it to be
adopted by an EV enthusiast rather than a guy running around looking for
cars to sell on Ebay. He said he could probably double his money, which I
doubt from seeing the prices on other EVs. I worry that someone might
convert it back to an ICE, as another man told me he would do if I sold him
my Bradley EV years ago. Fortunately the Bradley went to one of the first
EAA members here in Las Vegas and is being totally and beautifully restored
as an EV. I guess I am wondering if I would be throwing away a fabulous
deal if I don't take the $7500 and instead offer the car for sale through
the LVEVA to find an appropriate owner. This is currently my only running
car so I would have to have one of my Citicars rebuilt or look for an NEV.
No, I don't need a Leaf to drive less than 10 miles a week at 30 mph. A
nice wheelchair may be my next EV. This buyer asked if I would turn the car
on so he could hear that it runs, so I don't think he has clue one about
EVs. I expect he would not know he could ruin the motor and batteries if he
is not careful driving it. I haven't advertised the car, was not expecting
an offer all of a sudden, so am in a bit of a dilemna. The guy who claims
to carry all this cash in his pocket as he searches neighborhoods for cars
is supposed to come back Friday and I would really like some input from
others who care about EVs as to what they think I should do. You are the
only people who would understand why I wouldn't just take the money and run.

Thanks for any opinions or comments.

Gail
Las Vegas


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Discussion Starter #4
Suggest you take the money. Make sire it is not counterfeit, the situation sounds strange.

Eric Illowsky
Sent by BlackBerry - please excuse typos

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Warner <[email protected]>
Sender: [email protected]
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 15:02:48
To: Gail Lucas<[email protected]>; Electric Vehicle Discussion List<[email protected]>
Reply-To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Need help deciding on VW offer

Gail,
It sounds like you have a nice conversion there, I doubt that it would sell for
$7500 on Ebay.
I recommend you be very cautious if you deal with this person. If you decide to
deal with him, make sure you have someone you trust to be there to help.
I have a 73 super vw that I have listed on the EV Trading Post right now. (Also
listed on DIY Electric Car Forum) It is a bit rough and needs work, but I am
only asking $2800 for it and have only had a few responses to my ad. There are
many vehicles listed for sale and have been there for a while.
I also had a Bradley GTE a few years ago. http://www.evalbum.com/1086 I bought
the body and pan with the battery box. All electrical components and seats were
gone. I gathered parts and put it back on the road, sold it on Ebay $5000 in
2007.

Bill



________________________________
From: Gail Lucas <[email protected]>
To: EVDL <[email protected]>
Sent: Wed, October 27, 2010 2:08:33 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Need help deciding on VW offer

Hello,

Today I had a man stop at my front door and offer me $7500 for my 1975 VW EV
with the 1941 Ford hood which was added to allow more room for the huge 12
Volt batteries it first had. It has a Curtis controller, 8" Advance DC
motor, new Yokohama dB Super E-Spec tires with probably less than 100 miles,
a new Delta-Q 96 Volt charger, 16 6-Volt lead acid batteries which are a few
years old but have been kept charged and are lightly used as my driving
could be done in a NEV. It has new bucket seats and is in quite nice
condition, thanks to the wonderful work Bob Anderson did rebuilding it a few
years ago. I have been thinking about selling it as it has become difficult
for me to get in and out due to a hip problem, but I would like it to be
adopted by an EV enthusiast rather than a guy running around looking for
cars to sell on Ebay. He said he could probably double his money, which I
doubt from seeing the prices on other EVs. I worry that someone might
convert it back to an ICE, as another man told me he would do if I sold him
my Bradley EV years ago. Fortunately the Bradley went to one of the first
EAA members here in Las Vegas and is being totally and beautifully restored
as an EV. I guess I am wondering if I would be throwing away a fabulous
deal if I don't take the $7500 and instead offer the car for sale through
the LVEVA to find an appropriate owner. This is currently my only running
car so I would have to have one of my Citicars rebuilt or look for an NEV.
No, I don't need a Leaf to drive less than 10 miles a week at 30 mph. A
nice wheelchair may be my next EV. This buyer asked if I would turn the car
on so he could hear that it runs, so I don't think he has clue one about
EVs. I expect he would not know he could ruin the motor and batteries if he
is not careful driving it. I haven't advertised the car, was not expecting
an offer all of a sudden, so am in a bit of a dilemna. The guy who claims
to carry all this cash in his pocket as he searches neighborhoods for cars
is supposed to come back Friday and I would really like some input from
others who care about EVs as to what they think I should do. You are the
only people who would understand why I wouldn't just take the money and run.

Thanks for any opinions or comments.

Gail
Las Vegas


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Discussion Starter #5
Gail,

I know in this economy he can't double his money unless that car is pristine
and runs perfect with lithium batteries. I'd be very concerned about the
money he'd hand you. Since he is not an EV person I am quite sure he'd ruin
it before he could get his money back. Even if he were to convert it to gas
again it would not be worth double the money even after a re-conversion. I'd
try to sell it on ebay or to another person if you really want to sell it.
You might just want to hang onto it for awhile. Remember he came to you and
you are not even advertising it.

I'd caution against selling to this fellow. Like the others, it sounds too
fishy to me.

Pete :)

-----
If you don't understand, be patient, you will. Now I understand. :)
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Discussion Starter #6
Recommend you do transaction at a bank, have them verify the money is good.



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Discussion Starter #7
Well that is a good idea. Never thought of that. I bet if you confront him
that way he will back off. If he truly has all the money then you might
consider that deal over just doing a deal in your driveway.

Pete :)

-----
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Discussion Starter #8
Most everyone else gave you some financial advice and assistance on deciding
your vehicle sale. I'm not particularly well qualified to make suggestions in
that regard anyway, so I won't. One line caught my eye, and is applicable in the
case of one of my clients who lost his license after a vehicle crash. His mode
of transportation then became an electric four/six wheeled vehicle and public
transportation in an on-call basis. I had prepared to suggest to him a wider
ranging alternative, but ill health resulted in his passing. The information is
still valid for people with limited requirements and especially with limited
physical mobility.

http://www.boomerbents.com/ sells a product called the Raptor Electric Trike.
It's far more capable than a four/six wheel mobility scooter, greater range,
greater speed, perhaps a good bit more cargo capacity as well. It has pedals,
but that just makes it easier to use as an e-assist bicycle. It's pricey when it
comes to electric assist bicycles, but it's a fraction of the mobility devices.

If your comment was not solely in jest, it might be a suitable replacement for
an electric automobile.

If you do go that route, I would also suggest that you research bicycle
regulations for your area. Vehicular cycling practices make for safer more
enjoyable riding, in the traffic lane, and reduce the complications caused by
gutter-bunny/stripe-riding/curb-hugging or sidewalk riding. I'd be happy to
assist you in that research, off list, as such things are not specifically EV
related. I was a League Cycling Instructor before cynicism caught up to me.

fred



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 14:08:33 -0700
From: "Gail Lucas" <[email protected]>
Subject: [EVDL] Need help deciding on VW offer
To: "EVDL" <[email protected]>
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

Hello,

Today I had a man stop at my front door and offer me $7500 for my 1975 VW EV
with the 1941 Ford hood which was added to allow more room for the huge 12
Volt batteries it first had. It has a Curtis controller, 8" Advance DC
motor, new Yokohama dB Super E-Spec tires with probably less than 100 miles,
a new Delta-Q 96 Volt charger, 16 6-Volt lead acid batteries which are a few
years old but have been kept charged and are lightly used as my driving
could be done in a NEV. It has new bucket seats and is in quite nice
condition, thanks to the wonderful work Bob Anderson did rebuilding it a few
years ago. I have been thinking about selling it as it has become difficult
for me to get in and out due to a hip problem, but I would like it to be
adopted by an EV enthusiast rather than a guy running around looking for
cars to sell on Ebay. He said he could probably double his money, which I
doubt from seeing the prices on other EVs. I worry that someone might
convert it back to an ICE, as another man told me he would do if I sold him
my Bradley EV years ago. Fortunately the Bradley went to one of the first
EAA members here in Las Vegas and is being totally and beautifully restored
as an EV. I guess I am wondering if I would be throwing away a fabulous
deal if I don't take the $7500 and instead offer the car for sale through
the LVEVA to find an appropriate owner. This is currently my only running
car so I would have to have one of my Citicars rebuilt or look for an NEV.
No, I don't need a Leaf to drive less than 10 miles a week at 30 mph. A
nice wheelchair may be my next EV. This buyer asked if I would turn the car
on so he could hear that it runs, so I don't think he has clue one about
EVs. I expect he would not know he could ruin the motor and batteries if he
is not careful driving it. I haven't advertised the car, was not expecting
an offer all of a sudden, so am in a bit of a dilemna. The guy who claims
to carry all this cash in his pocket as he searches neighborhoods for cars
is supposed to come back Friday and I would really like some input from
others who care about EVs as to what they think I should do. You are the
only people who would understand why I wouldn't just take the money and run.

Thanks for any opinions or comments.

Gail
Las Vegas




------------------------------



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Discussion Starter #9
Over the years I've had people just "offer" money for one or another of my
cars many times. Some were collector cars, others were cars I drove every
day, but none were EVs. I got a call LAST NIGHT from a guy who saw my 1966
Pontiac last summer, and just made me an offer from "a friend" who wants the
car but hasn't actually seen it.

I have a process for these requests: "Come see the car with your mechanic or
someone knowledgeable about it; bring the cash (absolutely no other paper of
any kind, as the banks will happily deposit a forgery and charge it back at
some later time when the buyer and car are long gone,) and we'll go to the
bank together where I will deposit the money, sign the title over to you and
give you a bill of sale." Then I download a form Bill of Sale from the
internet, make sure my title and registration papers are in order, and wait.
Only once in over a dozen offers has the person actually bought the car. It
does happen, but usually it doesn't and the scam possibility is very high.
Be cautious, and do the transaction, with cash only, IN THE BANK. Scammers
don't like to be videotaped at the teller window.

On the merits of your question- $7500 is a very high offer for your car. You
would have an extremely tough time getting that amount for it. The batteries
have no real commercial value, the car isn't likely worth that much as a
glider, and the conversion is very hard to assess. I'm not being critical,
but I have been looking at everything available for sale online for about
three years, and $7500 buys a lot more used EV than that today. The point is
$7500 is really too much for a serious offer, and suspect. The second red
flag is the "double my money" justification for this offer, which reveals
the potential buyer as either too inexperienced with EVs to know what he is
doing, or a liar. The car you describe would almost never be worth $15k in
this market.

So your choice is either to take advantage of someone, or try to negotiate
with someone who is trying to take advantage of you. I don't personally like
either of these scenarios, so I make the statement in the first paragraph of
this message and see what happens.

Good luck,

TomA




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Discussion Starter #10
David,

Thanks. Scam came to mind right after the guy left but he had caught me
early in the day and I was not quite awake when he knocked on my door. He
asked to see the title but I did not look for it. I explained that I had to
fix some medications for my 19 year old dog and did not have time to talk to
him. He asked if he could come back in a couple of days so I told him
Friday afternoon would be okay. Probably not a good idea but I don't think
well in the morning.

The C-car is not more comfortable but definitely easier to get in and out
of. And, much easier to drive, park and see from. The VW has been the most
reliable EV I have had but has always felt large and cumbersome. It has
never been fun to drive like the little ones and people expect it to go
faster than I wish to. The C-cars are never mistaken for fast cars and
instead of becoming annoyed at my slow driving people will honk, smile and
wave. I love what Dale Wendorff did with his, maybe could send him mine for
refurbishing.

The Leaf is overkill for my purposes. Dealer service is something I have
always wanted for my EVs and maybe ten years ago I would have been on the
waiting list for a Leaf, but it would be a waste of resources for me to get
one now. If I continue to drive at all there would be no trips longer than
10 miles, most would be under 5 and all at slow speeds. As I mentioned, an
NEV would be fine for any trips I take.

No, I don't need the money. I wasn't advertising the car for sale. When
the guy offered $7,500 I just thought it sounded like a good deal and an
opportunity to sell it without a lot of hassle. Then logic set in. He had
no business card but said he had the money in his pocket, just wandering
around looking for cars to buy. His name is Kansas, don't know if that is
first or last. He seemed in a hurry to take the car without my even opening
its door, hood, trunk or turning it on. I have security bars on my doors
and did not feel like venturing past them to hang out with a strange man in
my driveway. When he left I was trying to figure out who to call to run the
situation by and decided the EVlist would be the best place to get some
practical and philosophical advice. Mission accomplished!

David, I agree. I would rather sell the car for less to an EV enthusiast
who would appreciate it and know how to properly care for it. Thanks for
helping me determine that I am not an idiot for thinking that.

Gail

----- Original Message -----
From: "EVDL Administrator" <[email protected]>
To: "EVDL" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 2:51 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Need help deciding on VW offer


>A few thoughts.
>
> First, you'd want to check out this buyer to make sure he's not running
> some
> kind of a scam. This situation doesn't quite pass the sniff test in my
> book.
>
> Second, if you're having physical trouble getting into and out of a VW
> (sorry to hear that), are you sure you'll find a C-car any more
> comfortable?
>
> Third, you say you don't need or want a Leaf, and I'm sure that's true.
> However, it's exactly what you've been waiting for all the years that I've
> known you - a real production EV that you can have serviced by the dealer.
> (It is rather pricey, however.)
>
> Finally, do you need the money? (Rhetorical question.) If it were mine
> and
> I didn't absolutely have to score $7,500 for the car, I'd sell it to an
> EVer
> I knew would appreciate it, even if it sold for less.
>
> David Roden
> EVDL Administrator

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Discussion Starter #11
Pete,

Car is far from pristine, is missing trim, leaks when it rains and right now
is covered with cobwebs and pine needles. It has lead acid batteries, a few
years old. It has run perfectly since Bob worked on it but is definitely
not a show car. The guy did not ask how fast it would go or how much range
it has so if he had bought it he could have been stranded before he got home
with it, depending on where he lives. As I read the responses to my message
I feel more and more like this is some sort of scam. One of my neighbors
who is a PI said he might have wanted to grab the title and run as you can
borrow money with a car title. She sold a valuable car not long ago and
said the con artists were all over. I think I will hang onto the car as it
is my only running vehicle right now and I will contact the EAA people when
I am ready to get rid of it. Some of them have helped me with battery
watering and installing the new charger so are familiar with the car.

Thanks for the advice,
Gail


----- Original Message -----
From: "gottdi" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 6:34 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Need help deciding on VW offer


>
> Gail,
>
> I know in this economy he can't double his money unless that car is
> pristine
> and runs perfect with lithium batteries. I'd be very concerned about the
> money he'd hand you. Since he is not an EV person I am quite sure he'd
> ruin
> it before he could get his money back. Even if he were to convert it to
> gas
> again it would not be worth double the money even after a re-conversion.
> I'd
> try to sell it on ebay or to another person if you really want to sell it.
> You might just want to hang onto it for awhile. Remember he came to you
> and
> you are not even advertising it.
>
> I'd caution against selling to this fellow. Like the others, it sounds too
> fishy to me.
>
> Pete :)
>
> -----
> If you don't understand, be patient, you will. Now I understand. :)
> --

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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
David,

Good suggestion but I think I am past taking the money, thanks to the
discussion here with my EV friends. A neighbor who sells a lot of stuff
said counterfeit $100 bills are very common here and to definitely not take
any of the older ones. Going to the bank would resolve that, but I just do
not want to pursue a sale now that I realize the possibilities.

Gail

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Dymaxion" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Need help deciding on VW offer


> Recommend you do transaction at a bank, have them verify the money is
> good.
>

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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Tom,

Your suggestions on how to handle a transaction are great and I will keep
them in mind if I decide to sell any of my cars. Your last paragraph pretty
much sums up the situation as it seems to be and I don't like the scenarios
either. I will find someone to hang out with me tomorrow in case the guy
comes back and will let him know that I will be keeping the car.

Thanks for the detailed steps on sales procedures.

Gail

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Alvary" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 9:05 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Need help deciding on VW offer


>
> So your choice is either to take advantage of someone, or try to negotiate
> with someone who is trying to take advantage of you. I don't personally
> like
> either of these scenarios, so I make the statement in the first paragraph
> of
> this message and see what happens.
>
> Good luck,
>
> TomA

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