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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm just starting to drive my Toyota pickup conversion with 9" ADC, 1231 controller and 120 VDC T125 Trojan batteries. I'm trying to limit current draw from the batteries to 200 amps for short periods of time until I get some cycles on them. I'd appreciate any comments, experience, etc. for my situation.

Also, I'm assuming that 105 VDC under load is still the absolute minimum voltage I should allow while driving?

TIA



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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
200 amps! That's ok for motor amps, but not battery amps. I been now
driving with my latest battery pack for six years now and the average
battery amps is about 50 amps mostly at city driving at about 30 mph at 5000
rpm at a gear ratio of 13.5:1.

The 200 amps would be my motor amperes that may range from 100 to 400 amps.

The minimum ampere while parking may below 10 amps and accelerating normally
may be 75 amps and accelerating up a slight incline is about 125 amps. Only
one time, I took the battery amps to 250 amps after the battery was broke in
after about 2 years of driving, to see how much shrink back I had at the
post which was about 5 in.lbs.

To break in my batteries, I first torque all the battery connections to 75
in.lbs. Check the electrolyte level to make sure the electrolyte is above
the plates. Do not add water at this time if it looks low. Electrolyte
will be low in a discharge battery and will rise in a charge battery.

Charge the batteries to 1.250 S.G. which is about 90% state of charge.
Check the electrolyte level again. If its not up to the bottom of the fill
well, than add distill water to that level and than continue to charge the
battery to 1.275 S.G. or to 100% S.O.C.

Record the voltages of each battery and record the battery pack voltage
about 12 hours later after rest and record that voltage.

I then pull a 50 amp load for 1 mile and record the battery pack volt drop,
repeat that for 4 more miles and check specific gravity of the batteries,
which tells me how much S.G. per mile I am using. I then re-torque the
battery connections which will lose about 5 in.lbs in the first 5 miles.
This is common for new connections to lose this much torque where that the
surface of the lead is not completely compress.

During these test, it is best to not drop the State of Charge (SOC) of the
battery below 75%. Re-charge the battery at no more the 10 percent of the
rated Ampere Hour of the battery and repeat the test, except check the
battery S.G. after 5 miles and re-torque at 10 miles.

Checking the battery connections at 5, 10, 20, 40, etc. miles, you will find
that the torque lost may be only 1-2 in.lbs per month of driving.

Check the electrolyte level after about one week which will tell you how
often you will have to add distill water. Remember never add water when the
battery is low while it is discharge.

If a battery is setting for a while, it is normal for the battery acid
(H2SO4) will settle to the bottom of the cell, making the bottom read a
higher specific gravity reading while the top portion will read weaker.
Always charge first, add water when need at the 90% charge and finish
charging, which makes this added water mix better.

Another thing to watch out for, which happen to me, is that I had a group of
batteries, that was only partially fill by the factory with 1.275
electrolyte which was still about 3/8 inch below the fill well. Adding
water at a 1.275 S.G. reading only make the electrolyte weaker and trying to
charge the battery, boil off the water anyway. It is best at that time, is
to finish adding 1.275 S.G. electrolyte which you can get at some battery
shops.

After running the EV for a month, checking the electrolyte S.G. and level,
torque, load testing, and voltage, there is a battery conductance leakage
test and battery current shunt test that could be perform.

The conductance leakage test, is the voltage of a battery terminal that is
conducting across the plastic battery tops to either the other post of the
battery or batteries and/or to vehicle ground while charging and not
charging the batteries.

To do this battery current leakage test during charging, apply all the
safety cautions. I use a insulated electrical blankets, that I draped over
any metal portion of the vehicle. Turn the charger on and connect one test
lead to a battery post and the other lead to the battery top starting next
to that same post and slide it to the edge of the battery top, off the
battery case and on to the battery racks or enclosure. If you see any
voltage reading it is time to clean the batteries.

In stead of re-torque of the connections every month or so. I use a battery
connection shunt current test. While the battery charger is on, connect
your volt meter in the milliamp scale and connect in parallel with the
battery links. Do not connect it to the links itself, rather connect it to
the battery post.

Lets say it reads. 0.005 amps at a torque connection of 75 in.lbs. it may
read 0.009 amps at a lower torque reading and may read 0.001 amps at a
higher torque reading. Use that higher torque reading as a reference and
check the shunt current of every link and adjust the higher shunt amp
reading to match the lowest shunt amp readings. In this way you do not have
to run the torque wrench over every battery connection.

You also can sweep a infer-red temperature scanner over the batteries and
battery connections to a quick test. A good meter will have a heat sensor
to do this type of test.

If you can stand to do all these battery maintenance checks, which I now
been doing for 34 years now. You can a very long life out of your batteries.

Roland








----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank John" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 7:09 AM
Subject: [EVDL] new battery break-in


> I'm just starting to drive my Toyota pickup conversion with 9" ADC, 1231
> controller and 120 VDC T125 Trojan batteries. I'm trying to limit current
> draw from the batteries to 200 amps for short periods of time until I get
> some cycles on them. I'd appreciate any comments, experience, etc. for my
> situation.
>
> Also, I'm assuming that 105 VDC under load is still the absolute minimum
> voltage I should allow while driving?
>
> TIA
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hi Frank;

Yeah! Go EASY for a few weeks! Charge between trips as much as you can,
like a run down to, say, the Inconvenience store, a 3 mile flight, charge
her up again. The batteries like a soft breakin. Resist the urge to do
Brakestands for awile! Your batteries will thank you, and show their love,
later on when you get eye popping ranges. I have scene guy stuff in new
batteries and blast away, running themn down so the car will hardly move!
Battery-cide! You spent too much money on that Lead Mine as Jerry D. calls
it! Try to stay out of 400 amp launches!! Do soft 75-100 amps. Yeeah ! It's
SLOOOW! So WAIT til you can pull out at freight train like accelleration.
When you get to be an experianced EV pilot you will just go SLOWER than you
did in your zillion HP Something Else! Relax, put on the classical music and
Chill! Roll along about the (Gasp!) speed limit. Grok, Savor the scenery.
It's leaf peeping in New England, now. I enjoy, the serenity of the moment.
Youse Sailboat guyz know what I mean?
We are blessed in Corrupticut with 2 or 3 classical channels. Yeah!
I got the Jetta's Radio to work! Works GREAT on FM, no noise. AM?
Forgetabout it! Really now? IS there ANYthing worth listening to on AM,
anyhow? This could be argued on FM too? This is why we have Cassettes and
CD's! Jetta CAME with an Alpine AM-FM Cassette thing. Seems to be a stock
Jetta item? Anyhow if it was a factory setup it works well! FAR better than
ANY aftermarket radio I had in the Rabbit.

Back to the point, go lightly, do shallow cycles for a wile til the
batteries have a chance to build up their muscle. This is all black, or red
, or blue magic, anyhow. #$%^ batteries are witchcraft , anyhow<g>!

Seeya

Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank John" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 9:09 AM
Subject: [EVDL] new battery break-in


> I'm just starting to drive my Toyota pickup conversion with 9" ADC, 1231
> controller and 120 VDC T125 Trojan batteries. I'm trying to limit current
> draw from the batteries to 200 amps for short periods of time until I get
> some cycles on them. I'd appreciate any comments, experience, etc. for my
> situation.
>
> Also, I'm assuming that 105 VDC under load is still the absolute minimum
> voltage I should allow while driving?
>
> TIA
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
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> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
From: Frank John
> I'm just starting to drive my Toyota pickup conversion with 9" ADC,
> 1231 controller and 120 VDC T125 Trojan batteries. I'm trying to
> limit current draw from the batteries to 200 amps for short periods
> of time until I get some cycles on them.

The Curtis controller has three small screws on the side of the case. The center one is the current limit adjustment. Unscrew the center screw to reveal the trimpot inside. Use a thin screwdriver to turn it counter-clockwise all the way (or to whatever current limit you want).


--
"Excellence does not require perfection." -- Henry James
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart-at-earthlink.net

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I don't know how Roland can keep the battery amps so low. It takes 200 amps
at 30 mph going up the hill to my house. The car won't move up the hill at
all with less than 100. I have been keeping the amps under 200 most of the
time. My batteries probably won't last 10 years. It would seem to me that
miles or total kilowatt hours would be a better measure of battery life than
years. UPS batteries kept at 13.6V last a long time.


From: Frank John
> > I'm just starting to drive my Toyota pickup conversion with 9" ADC,
> > 1231 controller and 120 VDC T125 Trojan batteries. I'm trying to
> > limit current draw from the batteries to 200 amps for short periods
> > of time until I get some cycles on them.
>
>
>
> -
> __




--
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/
Storm
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hello Storm,

I just did a test yesterday, to see what my battery amps would be on the
only level section of road for a length of about 2000 feet driving at 35 mph
instead of 30 mph which is the maximum speed of these roads inside the city.

Now, this with 6 years old batteries which are Trojan T-145's in a 6860 lb
EV with a 1st gear ratio of 3.5:1 times the axle ratio of 5.57:1 which is a
overall ratio 19.495:1 which allows me to go up to 26 mph in 1st gear at
6000 rpm.

The tires are 30 inches in diameter and have a very hard steel-poly face
that's keeps it more round with a soft side wall that where the deflection
of the tire is, not in the face which would result in a lot of road
resistance. These tires, are at 65 PSI which are rated at a load of 2650
lbs.

I then shift to 2nd gear which is now has a over all ratio of 2.5:1 x 5.57:1
= 13.925:1 which allows me to go to 36 mph at 6000 rpm.

At a stop to get on this street, I accelerated up to 25 mph in 1st gear
which peak to 110 battery amps and 400 motor amps, then the battery amperes
came back to 52 battery amps at 200 motor amperes.

Shifting into 2nd gear and accelerating to 35 mph keeping up with the
traffic, the battery amps to peak to 125 amps and the a motor ampere went to
350 motor amperes at 6000 rpm, then the battery amperes comes back to 55
amps at about 200 motor amperes.

Now driving off this level section, the road now goes into a slight roller
coaster roads. Now my battery ampere drops going down slope which may even
increase in speed, that allows the EV to go up the next slope and down
again. Some times I have to applied a little throttle to keep it at 35 mph
which now the battery ampere is now at 33 amperes and the motor amperes is
at 125 amps.

When I see that I have to come to a stop or slow down at a turn, I have to
let up on the accelerator about 3 blocks or about 1500 feet from the stop or
turn if my inverter-alternator has hardly any load on it to provide some
REGEN.

My 1st gear ratio is greater by 3 or 4 times the ratio of the standard
ratios. My Manta Mirage has a only a 2:1 x 3.0 = 6:1 1st gear ratio, but it
weighs 1800 lbs. If it was a EV at 1800 lbs, the the watt/hrs that is
require to move it with only a 6:1 ratio would be about:

If it takes 2400 wt/hr to move 100 lbs of weight direct drive, then:

1800 lbs / 100 = 18

18 x 2400 = 43,200 wt/hr

43,200/6 = 7,200 wt/hr for the Manta.

For my EV at 6860 lbs:

6860 lbs / 100 = 68.6

68.6 x 2400 = 164,640 wt/hr

164,640/19.495 = 8,445 wt/hr for my EV


So you see there is very little difference between a lite weight vehicle
with a high speed ratio gears and a heavy EV with low speed ratio gears.

The new GM 6L auto transmissions in the high performance vehicles now has a
4.01 1st gear ratio, that would make a overall ratio of 4.01 x 5.57:1 =
22.335:1.

164,640/22.335 = 7371 wt/hr for my EV as compare to the Manta at 7200
wt/hr.

That's how I maintain a very low battery ampere, you have to have the gears
plus a motor that provides a high torque at low rpm.

Roland






----- Original Message -----
From: "storm connors" <[email protected]>
To: "Lee Hart" <[email protected]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
<[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] new battery break-in


> I don't know how Roland can keep the battery amps so low. It takes 200
> amps
> at 30 mph going up the hill to my house. The car won't move up the hill at
> all with less than 100. I have been keeping the amps under 200 most of the
> time. My batteries probably won't last 10 years. It would seem to me that
> miles or total kilowatt hours would be a better measure of battery life
> than
> years. UPS batteries kept at 13.6V last a long time.
>
>
> From: Frank John
> > > I'm just starting to drive my Toyota pickup conversion with 9" ADC,
> > > 1231 controller and 120 VDC T125 Trojan batteries. I'm trying to
> > > limit current draw from the batteries to 200 amps for short periods
> > > of time until I get some cycles on them.
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > __
>
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
> http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/
> Storm
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
On 22 Oct 2007 at 9:57, Roland Wiench wrote:

> see how much wt/hr or AH it
> takes at the different speeds for the same distance.

Just to be clear here, the correct units for measuring energe is Watt-hours
(abbreviate Wh). "Wt/hr" is a meaningless unit, like horsepower per minute.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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