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Discussion Starter #1
Jim the Motor God;

Just received my new ADV DC FB1-4001A Series motor from the UPS man.
Since I'll be stubbing my toe on this thing for the next ~ 6 months,
how about some advice for all the beginners on taking care of it.

What to do when first receiving it.
Testing it and at what voltage is best.
What to do while it sits and waits for it's new home.

Thanks;
Dennis
Elsberry, MO

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Discussion Starter #2
--- "Pestka, Dennis J" <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Jim the Motor God;
>
> Just received my new ADV DC FB1-4001A Series motor
> from the UPS man.
> Since I'll be stubbing my toe on this thing for the
> next ~ 6 months,
> how about some advice for all the beginners on
> taking care of it.
>
> What to do when first receiving it.
> Testing it and at what voltage is best.
> What to do while it sits and waits for it's new
> home.

Hey Dennis

First I'd remove it from the box and inspect it for
any damage as we all know the feight guys can be a
little less caring of our babies 8^)

Next I'd grab a 5/16th nut driver and test the screw
connections where the brush lead attaches to the
copper brush jumper located on the holders. I'd also
test each brush mounting screw. I've found loose
connection screws on new motors and although probably
rare would really upset you if you happen to be the
guy who ended up getting one with a loose brush / lead
connection. These are only 8X32 screws so no need to
hire a gorella just make sure they are in fact tight
(there will be 12 screws total 8 brush and 4 lead).
On one FB1 I found two lead screws to be 2 full turns
shy of being tight. Also take care not to slip and
bang the comm 8^o

Next, block the motor to prevent it from rolling and
use just 12 volts to bench test it. Better to make a
switch of any kind than to arc the terminals of the
motor or battery. The motor should spin up nice and
smooth and draw about 30 amps under 12 volt power.

For some reason ADC uses a flat bottomed brush for new
motors (compared to a pre-seated, curved bottom
replacement brush they sell) They also do not seat
the brushes (on the few new motors I've seen)(I see
far more abused motors than new ones)
I'm not sure why this is, but is why you hear the old
timers talk about running in the brushes.

I prefer to use a brush seater and just get it over
with in a minute or two. If you can obtain some brush
seater and give the comm a gentle swiping and you'll
get the brushes to a full edge to edge seating which
will prevent arcing under the voltages that are used
in these motors (probably not a big deal for low
voltage lift motors). If you seat the brushes take it
outside and blow it out really good and do not breathe
the dust.

I actually use a finish grade comm stone / brush
seater and is 8" long X 3/4" X 1/4" and is thin enough
and stiff enough to fit into the windows and is less
subject to breaking on you. Always swipe the stick
away from rotation to prevent it from chattering and
breaking on you. If you do break a stick off into the
motor shut it down quickly and then remove it with
needlenose or the like and continue. I don't like the
white chauky type as they are very prone to breakage.


For long term storage I was taught (although never
practiced 8^o) to pull the brushes from the comm to
prevent oxidation but I've pulled motors from boxes
after years of storage and have never seen any issue
in leaving the brushes seated to the comm. In fact if
you mess with the brushes (EVen a little bit) you
usually get a little brush chatter until they settle
in again. It's also advised to never touch the bare
copper comm as the oils you carry can create
oxidation.

Other than that, there shouldn't be much you'll need
to do to make sure she'll be ready when the time has
come to install it.

FWIW the EE's of the world are the motor Gods, I'm
more a motor sargent, in the trenches, and try to make
them a little more battle tough 8^o

In general try to keep it from seeing water (I don't
care what Rod says)( I've seen and heard of his motor
wickedness 8^P) and she'll keep your EV grin glowing
for years to come 8^)

Congrats on getting your drive unit and best of luck
completing your EV.

Hope this helps.

Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric






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Discussion Starter #3
>
> I prefer to use a brush seater and just get it over
> with in a minute or two.


What is a brush seater?

--
Eduardo K. |
http://www.carfun.cl | I'm white and nerdy
http://ev.nn.cl | Weird Al
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Discussion Starter #4
Hi Eduardo,

Jim might kick my butt, but I'll give it a go.

First off, there is shaping and seating. Brushes
rarely exactly fit the radius of the comm surface. So
a "stone" is used to shape the brush to the correct
radius. This is an abrasive bar which is pressed
against the comm while it is spinning. The abrasive
particles are dislodged from the bar and travel around
the surface of the comm under the brushes grinding
them to the comm radius. The stone material is soft
enough not to damage the copper comm surface but hard
enough to grind the carbon/graphite brush material.
This process should be done at the end of the line in
the motor factory.

Seating the brush actually happens only under load.
This is a process linked to establishing the film or
patina on the comm surface. A shaped brush will have
the contact surface the correct shape but is still
rough. A seated brush contact surface is nice and
shinny. Depending on all sorts of things, to fully
seat brushes will take hours to days of running at
load. The brushes will function best when they are
well seated, that is have the lowest contact drop,
lowest friction and longest life.

Hope I didn't cross Jim too much.

Jeff




--- Eduardo Kaftanski <[email protected]> wrote:

> >
> > I prefer to use a brush seater and just get it
> over
> > with in a minute or two.
>
>
> What is a brush seater?
>
> --
> Eduardo K. |
> http://www.carfun.cl | I'm white and nerdy
> http://ev.nn.cl | Weird Al
> |
>






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Discussion Starter #5
Hey Jim,
You forgot to tell him about all the love and affection you have to give a motor daily. You know, the pep talks, life's lessons, and the firm fatherly advice. None of that threatening stuff like "if you don't behave I'm gonna drive you through a flooded street"....or " better behave or I'm gonna zorch you with 2000 A".....none of that stuff though.

;-)



>From: Jim Husted wrote:
>
>
> Hey Dennis
>
> First I'd remove it from the box and inspect it for
> any damage as we all know the feight guys can be a
> little less caring of our babies 8^)
>
> Next I'd grab a 5/16th nut driver and test the screw
> connections where the brush lead attaches to the
> copper brush jumper located on the holders. I'd also
> test each brush mounting screw. I've found loose
> connection screws on new motors and although probably
> rare would really upset you if you happen to be the
> guy who ended up getting one with a loose brush / lead
> connection. These are only 8X32 screws so no need to
> hire a gorella just make sure they are in fact tight
> (there will be 12 screws total 8 brush and 4 lead).
> On one FB1 I found two lead screws to be 2 full turns
> shy of being tight. Also take care not to slip and
> bang the comm 8^o
>
> Next, block the motor to prevent it from rolling and
> use just 12 volts to bench test it. Better to make a
> switch of any kind than to arc the terminals of the
> motor or battery. The motor should spin up nice and
> smooth and draw about 30 amps under 12 volt power.
>
> For some reason ADC uses a flat bottomed brush for new
> motors (compared to a pre-seated, curved bottom
> replacement brush they sell) They also do not seat
> the brushes (on the few new motors I've seen)(I see
> far more abused motors than new ones)
> I'm not sure why this is, but is why you hear the old
> timers talk about running in the brushes.
>
> I prefer to use a brush seater and just get it over
> with in a minute or two. If you can obtain some brush
> seater and give the comm a gentle swiping and you'll
> get the brushes to a full edge to edge seating which
> will prevent arcing under the voltages that are used
> in these motors (probably not a big deal for low
> voltage lift motors). If you seat the brushes take it
> outside and blow it out really good and do not breathe
> the dust.
>
> I actually use a finish grade comm stone / brush
> seater and is 8" long X 3/4" X 1/4" and is thin enough
> and stiff enough to fit into the windows and is less
> subject to breaking on you. Always swipe the stick
> away from rotation to prevent it from chattering and
> breaking on you. If you do break a stick off into the
> motor shut it down quickly and then remove it with
> needlenose or the like and continue. I don't like the
> white chauky type as they are very prone to breakage.
>
>
> For long term storage I was taught (although never
> practiced 8^o) to pull the brushes from the comm to
> prevent oxidation but I've pulled motors from boxes
> after years of storage and have never seen any issue
> in leaving the brushes seated to the comm. In fact if
> you mess with the brushes (EVen a little bit) you
> usually get a little brush chatter until they settle
> in again. It's also advised to never touch the bare
> copper comm as the oils you carry can create
> oxidation.
>
> Other than that, there shouldn't be much you'll need
> to do to make sure she'll be ready when the time has
> come to install it.
>
> FWIW the EE's of the world are the motor Gods, I'm
> more a motor sargent, in the trenches, and try to make
> them a little more battle tough 8^o
>
> In general try to keep it from seeing water (I don't
> care what Rod says)( I've seen and heard of his motor
> wickedness 8^P) and she'll keep your EV grin glowing
> for years to come 8^)
>
> Congrats on getting your drive unit and best of luck
> completing your EV.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from
> someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
> http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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Discussion Starter #6
I have to agree Mike.

It is the affection given to a motor that will give it the strength to
take on the hard times that life unexpectedly throws at you, like
flooded streets, slow ICE's or even fast ones.

It also gives a motor the inspiration and courage to say things like,
"Feed me!..... Amps! I want Amps... Give me more Amps!!!"

It's a good thing.

Ken



-----Original Message-----
From: MIKE WILLMON <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 12:17 pm
Subject: Re: [EVDL] New Motor Care


Hey Jim,
You forgot to tell him about all the love and affection you have to
give a motor
daily. You know, the pep talks, life's lessons, and the firm fatherly
advice.
None of that threatening stuff like "if you don't behave I'm gonna
drive you
through a flooded street"....or " better behave or I'm gonna zorch you
with 2000
A".....none of that stuff though.

;-)


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Discussion Starter #7
--- MIKE WILLMON <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hey Jim,
> You forgot to tell him about all the love and
> affection you have to give a motor daily. You know,
> the pep talks, life's lessons, and the firm fatherly
> advice. None of that threatening stuff like "if you
> don't behave I'm gonna drive you through a flooded
> street"....or " better behave or I'm gonna zorch you
> with 2000 A".....none of that stuff though.
>
> ;-)

Hey Mike, all

I'm sorry I didn't include all of my psychotic VooDoo
rituals into that post but I was hoping to get off for
my Portland run early. I got up and saw this post and
tried to chicken peck out a quick post before I left.


Let me use a little analogy here. One husband beats
his wife, slams her to the floor daily, holds her head
under water. One husband treats his wife kindly,
respectfully, doen't hold her head under water. Which
wife do you think is going to hang around longer? 8^)

Of course when you know your selling a bride to a wife
beater it's important that you send them some brutus
of a woman named Helga or a mutant Siamese freak 8^o

Mike, you got a little beauty with your beast 8^P

You guys do as you please, I'll get the last last
laugh 8^) With an email, Hey Jim umm... 8^P Ohh and
then the local shop did.. 8^o LMAO!

Had fun
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric


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Discussion Starter #8
--- Jeff Major <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> Hi Eduardo,
>
> Jim might kick my butt, but I'll give it a go.
>

Hey Jeff

Actually you're nice to have around 8^) Kind of like
me with a brain 8^o This email would have taken me an
hour to peck out so it saves me time and I get to
learn stuff to boot 8^)

I enjoyed this post and feel it should be added to the
motor FAQ list I'd like to complete, with permission
of course 8^) Anyway great answer to a common
question.

Anyway, I'll have to kick your butt later 8^o to
tired from the Portland run ;^) but I got my eye on
you, usually an ear to 8^D

Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric




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Discussion Starter #10
--- "Joseph T. " <[email protected]> wrote:

> Two, are you saying that you're supposed to stick
> this thing into the
> electric motor and grind against the brushes?!? I'd
> have a hard time
> grinding the brushes down on one of the "babies."

Hey Joseph

No, you gently rub it agaist the commutator with even
strokes, the adrasive material flows under the brush
and wears the brush in.

Hope this helps.
Cya
Jim Husted



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Discussion Starter #11
Jim and others;

Thanks for the great response.
I have one more question.

Would it be OK to run/test this motor with 36VDC ?

I already have this set this up in my work shop.
I have a double ended male plug pig tail that I run from the accessory
plug on my Electric tractor into an outlet in the basement of my shop.
This outlet feeds another outlet on the upper floor.
I used all #12 wire with 2 prong twist lock plugs that match the
accessory plug on my tractor, and each outlet is labeled 36VDC.
This allows me to fool with 36VDC motors and accessories for my tractor
upstairs in my shop.



Thanks;
Dennis
Elsberry, MO

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Discussion Starter #12
Dennis,

Depends on the motor in question, but likely 36 volts
is too high for a no load free run on a series motor.
12 volts usually gets them spinning about as high as
you dare.

Jeff



--- "Pestka, Dennis J" <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Jim and others;
>
> Thanks for the great response.
> I have one more question.
>
> Would it be OK to run/test this motor with 36VDC ?
>
> I already have this set this up in my work shop.
> I have a double ended male plug pig tail that I run
> from the accessory
> plug on my Electric tractor into an outlet in the
> basement of my shop.
> This outlet feeds another outlet on the upper floor.
> I used all #12 wire with 2 prong twist lock plugs
> that match the
> accessory plug on my tractor, and each outlet is
> labeled 36VDC.
> This allows me to fool with 36VDC motors and
> accessories for my tractor
> upstairs in my shop.
>
>
>
> Thanks;
> Dennis
> Elsberry, MO




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Discussion Starter #13
Hi Joseph,

See inserted comments.......


--- "Joseph T. " <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Depending on all sorts of things, to fully
> seat brushes will take hours to days of running at
> load. The brushes will function best when they are
> well seated, that is have the lowest contact drop,
> lowest friction and longest life."
>
> So in other words, when you first have your electric
> motor installed
> into your car, you need to give it a break in
> period. Correct?

You know, if I just paid a thousand or two for a new
DC motor, I'd run that baby for a few days, no load
reduced voltage on the bench trying to lay down at
least some comm film (patina) and seat the brushes to
at least some degree. If it appeared that the brushes
had not been properly shaped by the factory, I'd stone
them. Then, when finally installed, I'd take it easy,
long runs at moderate speeds, for the first dozen or
so battery discharges. Checking along the way several
times to see if the comm film was progressing. If
things appeared O.K., then I'd be temped to let it all
hang out. You'd be much more likely to get 10 or 20
years out of your brushes.


>
> "First off, there is shaping and seating. Brushes
> rarely exactly fit the radius of the comm
> surface....So
> a "stone" is used to shape the brush to the correct
> radius. ......This is an abrasive bar which is
> pressed
> against the comm while it is spinning. This process
> should be done at
> the end of the line in the motor factory."
>
> One, if it's (supposed to be) done at the factory,
> why do it again?

Difference between "supposed to be" and "actually
done".

Regards,

Jeff



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Discussion Starter #14
--- "Pestka, Dennis J" <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Jim and others;
>
> Thanks for the great response.
> I have one more question.
>
> Would it be OK to run/test this motor with 36VDC ?

Hey Dennis

I'll be less polite than Jeff here 8^P No you can
not! Well you could but you'd probably be running at
6000 RPM's and would probably blow up your new motor!

There really isn't a need to free spin (no load) an
FB1 on any more than 12 volts.

Please, no boom boom 8^P EVen Tick tick tick is very
bad 8^o (that's the sound a lifted bar makes BTW).
Which is followed by boom boom, LMAO!
Hope this is clear enough, or do I need to be more
forceful 8^)

Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric



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Discussion Starter #15
--- [email protected] wrote:

>
> I have to agree Mike.
>
> It is the affection given to a motor that will give
> it the strength to
> take on the hard times that life unexpectedly throws
> at you, like
> flooded streets, slow ICE's or even fast ones.
>
> It also gives a motor the inspiration and courage to
> say things like,
> "Feed me!..... Amps! I want Amps... Give me more
> Amps!!!"
>
> It's a good thing.

OMG

This is just like when Darth Vader turned to the dark
side of the force! Come to the light Ken, it's not to
late, LMAO!!!

Ya it's all good till Rod tells you he's your father,
LMAO 8^o and then chops your hand off with a plasma
sabor ;^)

Tweety should not be used for the dark side, Sylvester
might be but not Tweety, LMAO!

Had fun

Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric



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Discussion Starter #16
Read you loud and clear !
That's why I ask the experts.

Thanks to everyone;
Dennis
Elsberry, MO

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Husted [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 8:52 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] New Motor Care


--- "Pestka, Dennis J" <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Jim and others;
>
> Thanks for the great response.
> I have one more question.
>
> Would it be OK to run/test this motor with 36VDC ?

Hey Dennis

I'll be less polite than Jeff here 8^P No you can not! Well you could
but you'd probably be running at 6000 RPM's and would probably blow up
your new motor!

There really isn't a need to free spin (no load) an
FB1 on any more than 12 volts.

Please, no boom boom 8^P EVen Tick tick tick is very bad 8^o (that's
the sound a lifted bar makes BTW).
Which is followed by boom boom, LMAO!
Hope this is clear enough, or do I need to be more forceful 8^)

Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric



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