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Discussion Starter #1
There is a press release on the Phoenix Motorcars site saying that
they have cancelled their order of UQM drives, to be replaced by an
unnamed replacement technology. They claim the new drive will be
rated at 200kW vs the 100kW of the UQM PowerPhase 100.
http://www.phoenixmotorcars.com/news/2007/pr_071102.html

Any guesses about what they are putting in there? I wonder if they
licensed the Raser Symetron IP, or are working with Alan Cocconi?

Seems to me that a new drive and downgraded battery pack would mean
job 1 just got pushed out.

I wish them best of luck and hope to hear more, soon.

- ian

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Discussion Starter #2
Late in the game to switch but it was my impression that UQM had the
overprice attitude too.
I doubt it's the Raser, they don't even make prototypes for sale and
Alan's motor has so far been nastilly priced (25k$ for a set) but once I
communicated with ACpropulsion about their poor math skills :) they said
they were looking into making them in china but would still want 15k$
for a set. it's not impossible that they are now affordable but it would
require them getting their heads in the game in a whole new way and I
sort of doubt it.
I think phoenix would advertise it if it was ACP motors too.

I'm guessing some chinese product

Dan

Ian Ward wrote:
> There is a press release on the Phoenix Motorcars site saying that
> they have cancelled their order of UQM drives, to be replaced by an
> unnamed replacement technology. They claim the new drive will be
> rated at 200kW vs the 100kW of the UQM PowerPhase 100.
> http://www.phoenixmotorcars.com/news/2007/pr_071102.html
>
> Any guesses about what they are putting in there? I wonder if they
> licensed the Raser Symetron IP, or are working with Alan Cocconi?
>
> Seems to me that a new drive and downgraded battery pack would mean
> job 1 just got pushed out.
>
> I wish them best of luck and hope to hear more, soon.
>
> - ian
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>

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Discussion Starter #3
25K is quantity 1 to end user with guarantee. I have talked to AC
Propulsion once about qty pricing and, while I can't disclose what was
said, I can say you are not making a fair comparison. When they have an
order(s) where they can place an order for components in real production
quantities, The prices become very,very reasonable.

I worked in manufacturing for 23 years, I have seen many products before
they hit the market and seen how long it can take even with a successful
product. This process can be shortcut if you have money to throw at it,
but that is not a guarentee, just a time saver. succeed faster or fail
faster.

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Discussion Starter #4
I'm guessing he wasn't talking about making 1 in china when he said it
wouldn't go below 15k$
and phoenix isn't buying a million either
and without you committing to something specific I wont take your word
for it. if he offered it to you for less than 15k let's hear it. secrecy
is evil. he probably didn't even ask you to keep it secret.

Dan

Jeff Shanab wrote:
> 25K is quantity 1 to end user with guarantee. I have talked to AC
> Propulsion once about qty pricing and, while I can't disclose what was
> said, I can say you are not making a fair comparison. When they have an
> order(s) where they can place an order for components in real production
> quantities, The prices become very,very reasonable.
>
> I worked in manufacturing for 23 years, I have seen many products before
> they hit the market and seen how long it can take even with a successful
> product. This process can be shortcut if you have money to throw at it,
> but that is not a guarentee, just a time saver. succeed faster or fail
> faster.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>

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Discussion Starter #5
This is from evworld.com, published two days ago:
http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?archive=1&storyid=1347&first=4673&end=4672

"
Tom Gage, president of AC Propulsion, predicts that the company could
bring the cost down to "a retail price equivalent of $10,000 per
drivetrain" if they were manufacturing between 50,000 and 100,000
units per year. If a major auto manufacturer were building millions of
the drivetrains each year, costs would fall much further.
"


Dan Frederiksen <[email protected]> wrote:
> I'm guessing he wasn't talking about making 1 in china when he said it
> wouldn't go below 15k$
> and phoenix isn't buying a million either
> and without you committing to something specific I wont take your word
> for it. if he offered it to you for less than 15k let's hear it. secrecy
> is evil. he probably didn't even ask you to keep it secret.
>
> Dan
>
>
> Jeff Shanab wrote:
> > 25K is quantity 1 to end user with guarantee. I have talked to AC
> > Propulsion once about qty pricing and, while I can't disclose what was
> > said, I can say you are not making a fair comparison. When they have an
> > order(s) where they can place an order for components in real production
> > quantities, The prices become very,very reasonable.
> >
> > I worked in manufacturing for 23 years, I have seen many products before
> > they hit the market and seen how long it can take even with a successful
> > product. This process can be shortcut if you have money to throw at it,
> > but that is not a guarentee, just a time saver. succeed faster or fail
> > faster.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



--
www.electric-lemon.com

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Discussion Starter #6
yeah, that's ridiculous. with a billion dollars worth he would grace us
with a dirt cheap 10k$ set...
no thanks

Dan

Peter Gabrielsson wrote:
> This is from evworld.com, published two days ago:
> http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?archive=1&storyid=1347&first=4673&end=4672
>
> "
> Tom Gage, president of AC Propulsion, predicts that the company could
> bring the cost down to "a retail price equivalent of $10,000 per
> drivetrain" if they were manufacturing between 50,000 and 100,000
> units per year. If a major auto manufacturer were building millions of
> the drivetrains each year, costs would fall much further.
> "
>
>
>
Dan Frederiksen <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I'm guessing he wasn't talking about making 1 in china when he said it
>> wouldn't go below 15k$
>> and phoenix isn't buying a million either
>> and without you committing to something specific I wont take your word
>> for it. if he offered it to you for less than 15k let's hear it. secrecy
>> is evil. he probably didn't even ask you to keep it secret.
>>
>> Dan
>>
>>
>> Jeff Shanab wrote:
>>
>>> 25K is quantity 1 to end user with guarantee. I have talked to AC
>>> Propulsion once about qty pricing and, while I can't disclose what was
>>> said, I can say you are not making a fair comparison. When they have an
>>> order(s) where they can place an order for components in real production
>>> quantities, The prices become very,very reasonable.
>>>
>>> I worked in manufacturing for 23 years, I have seen many products before
>>> they hit the market and seen how long it can take even with a successful
>>> product. This process can be shortcut if you have money to throw at it,
>>> but that is not a guarentee, just a time saver. succeed faster or fail
>>> faster.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> For subscription options, see
>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>
>
>
>

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Discussion Starter #7
Yes Tom Gage had a confidentiality clause in the email. I respect those.
The number mentioned as possible retail is a reasonable markup on the
potential OEM pricing I heard.

Anyone for a group buy, a really big group? LOL

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