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Discussion Starter #1
Reading the summer issue of "Batteries & Energy
Storage Technology" magazine, I came across
interesting article. Argonne National Lab tested two
different Prius plug-in conversions (Hymotion and
Energy CS). Indications were "significantly higher
NOx and HC emissions when compared to a stock Prius."
Also noted "There is a risk that the aftermarket
batteries can compromise the fuel system and/or
crashworthiness." And "Lithium-ion batteries carry a
higher risk of fire." This from Charles Ing, Toyota
Government affairs director to US Congress. Point was
to discourage tax incentives for plug-in conversions.
Toyota questions "whether the Government should be
paying people to make their cars dirtier."

Jeff


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Discussion Starter #2
Jeff Major wrote:
> Reading the summer issue of "Batteries & Energy
> Storage Technology" magazine, I came across
> interesting article. Argonne National Lab tested two
> different Prius plug-in conversions (Hymotion and
> Energy CS). Indications were "significantly higher
> NOx and HC emissions when compared to a stock Prius."

Of course. I would *expect* that with more batteries, the ICE would be
in use less often and/or for shorter intervals, both of which would
cause worse emissions. Wasn't it Ralph Nader who stumped about how a
thermos to retain hot coolant and pump it back in before starting the
engine would drastically cut emissions?

> Also noted "There is a risk that the aftermarket
> batteries can compromise the fuel system and/or
> crashworthiness." And "Lithium-ion batteries carry a
> higher risk of fire." This from Charles Ing, Toyota
> Government affairs director to US Congress. Point was

That's simple to fix. Find some group to quote him in their press
release about how "Toyota states they are unable to design safe cars
with today's technology." 8)

> to discourage tax incentives for plug-in conversions.
> Toyota questions "whether the Government should be
> paying people to make their cars dirtier."

Hmmm. Seems to me the question is whether people should be paying
Toyota to lobby the Government.

Don't mind me, I just feel like carping about the bastaaaahds.

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Discussion Starter #3
Toyota was trying to discourage the plug in Prius right up until their
announcement on July 20 that they were road testing their plug in Prius and
planned to sell it initially to municipalities and similar fleet uses. The
official Toyota word to dealerships included that plug ins would not handle
well because of the extra weight and crash worthiness would not be as good.
There was a list of about 10 reasons the plug in would never work and should
not even be attempted, etc.





On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 13:21:16 -0700 (PDT), Jeff Major wrote
> Reading the summer issue of "Batteries & Energy
> Storage Technology" magazine, I came across
> interesting article. Argonne National Lab tested two
> different Prius plug-in conversions (Hymotion and
> Energy CS). Indications were "significantly higher
> NOx and HC emissions when compared to a stock Prius."
> Also noted "There is a risk that the aftermarket
> batteries can compromise the fuel system and/or
> crashworthiness." And "Lithium-ion batteries carry a
> higher risk of fire." This from Charles Ing, Toyota
> Government affairs director to US Congress. Point was
> to discourage tax incentives for plug-in conversions.
> Toyota questions "whether the Government should be
> paying people to make their cars dirtier."
>
> Jeff
>
>
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_______
> Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative
> vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
> http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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Discussion Starter #4
I think parallel hybrid plugins are a technological dead-end, at least Toyota's implementation, and maybe they know this. Plugging in a parallel hybrid has diminishing returns if you drive at freeway speeds a lot (which doesn't use the electric motor). All this novelty about the plugin prius will wear off when more practical plugins are made available.

----- Original Message ----
Toyota was trying to discourage the plug in Prius right up until their
announcement on July 20 that they were road testing their plug in Prius and
planned to sell it initially to municipalities and similar fleet uses. The
official Toyota word to dealerships included that plug ins would not handle
well because of the extra weight and crash worthiness would not be as good.
There was a list of about 10 reasons the plug in would never work and should
not even be attempted, etc.




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Discussion Starter #6
The other thing to do would be to switch our measureing system to
emmisions per mile in stead of parts per million.

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Discussion Starter #7
I have seen this tactic from Toyota over and over again. They tend to
discount or almost discourage then come out with something in full qty,
a major release. As contrast with GM who plays it up then ussually half
ass releases. I am waiting to see if they try the "americans are to dumb
to handle a plug in and need a lease" tactic on the volt.

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Discussion Starter #8
I agree with that method totally. When the post said that Nox and HC
were significantly higher the first thing I thought was, "but the engine
is ON less." You have to look at the OVERALL emissions, not just what
the car was putting out when it was running. A car that gets 135 mpg
has to put out less than a car that uses 40 mpg.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Jeff Shanab
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 11:51
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Plug-in Prius

The other thing to do would be to switch our measureing system to
emmisions per mile in stead of parts per million.

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Discussion Starter #9
[EVDL] Plug-In Prius

Hi,

Since my interference diesel 99' VW-Bug engine died at 114k when the timing belt slipped (with 45k on the belt) I was thinking of selling the carcass for an EV conversion about $1k and buying a Prius which I believe is a non-interference engine and can be converted to a plug-in. Is the electric motor big enough not to overheat when running 30 miles on a charge? Also I was looking at some used one's and curious if the batteries could be replaced with cheaper batteries < $5k.

Have a renewable energy day,
Mark
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Discussion Starter #10
Re: [EVDL] Plug-In Prius

> buying a Prius
-
> Also I was looking at some used one's and curious if the
> batteries could be replaced with cheaper batteries < $5k.
>
>
Are the ones you are looking at really high mileage?

The batteries are covered under the mandatory emissions warranty for at
least 100,000 miles, maybe more.

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