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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all

I'm a newbie but have been lurking the list for some time. I've started
converting my 1968 VW Squareback to electric and am trying to decide how
much to invest in lithium batteries. My commute is long (50+mi) and I'd
like to end up with a car that can make the drive. (I can charge at work)

My question is this: I've tried out several of the ev range calculators
online and am finding that with something like the Calb 180AH at 120 Volts
gets me to about 60 mi at 80% DOD. Does that sound reasonable?

Other info: motor is netgain warp 9", controller Curtis 1231C-8601 (or
something like it)
Thanks,

Robert
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Discussion Starter #2
Robert,

I have searched and looked at as many ev range calculators as I can find. I =

believe
that there is only 1 accurate graph available at the time. It is Elite Powe=
r =

Solutions
EV application calculation. It matches exactly to the performance of my car.

Alan




________________________________
From: Robert Potter <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, February 28, 2011 4:57:10 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Potential ev range

Hi all

I'm a newbie but have been lurking the list for some time. I've started
converting my 1968 VW Squareback to electric and am trying to decide how
much to invest in lithium batteries. My commute is long (50+mi) and I'd
like to end up with a car that can make the drive. (I can charge at work)

My question is this: I've tried out several of the ev range calculators
online and am finding that with something like the Calb 180AH at 120 Volts
gets me to about 60 mi at 80% DOD. Does that sound reasonable?

Other info: motor is netgain warp 9", controller Curtis 1231C-8601 (or
something like it)
Thanks,

Robert
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Discussion Starter #3
This may sound oversimplified but fora 2500 pound EV
with lifepo4, straight and level driving conditions with no wind,
perfect front end alignment, LRR tires, 80%DOD-the calculation would =
bekwh =

X 2.9=3D Range
Looks like your calculation is very accurate.



________________________________
From: Robert Potter <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, February 28, 2011 4:57:10 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Potential ev range

Hi all

I'm a newbie but have been lurking the list for some time. I've started
converting my 1968 VW Squareback to electric and am trying to decide how
much to invest in lithium batteries. My commute is long (50+mi) and I'd
like to end up with a car that can make the drive. (I can charge at work)

My question is this: I've tried out several of the ev range calculators
online and am finding that with something like the Calb 180AH at 120 Volts
gets me to about 60 mi at 80% DOD. Does that sound reasonable?

Other info: motor is netgain warp 9", controller Curtis 1231C-8601 (or
something like it)
Thanks,

Robert
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Discussion Starter #4
He needs a 50+ miles per charge but in reality that means he really needs
about 70 to 80 miles to allow for differenced in how one drives and
condition of the vehicle and roads and traffic and any other life gets in
the way sort of things. You don't want to convert a car that just gets you
50 miles if you need 50+ miles. 57 Miles is just not going to cut it. What
about cold weather? Super hot weather? That extra speed you decided to go
today? Your tire that is low and causing an unknown drag. If you could do 50
miles any thing could top you from getting to your goal. So you need 50
miles but you need to build it so it will go 70 or 80 miles so you have a
reliable vehicle.

Pete :)



-----
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Discussion Starter #5
My Honda del Sol with 45 Thundersky 100Ah cells (144V nominal) goes about
50-55 miles to full discharge. With very well balanced cells and the
dragging front brakes fixed, I might get to 60 miles.

I think your estimate of 60 miles for the CALB 180AH at 120 volts is pretty
close. I agree with the other posters, though, that you really want a 70
mile range to have some margin.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Robert Potter
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 5:57 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [EVDL] Potential ev range

Hi all

I'm a newbie but have been lurking the list for some time. I've started
converting my 1968 VW Squareback to electric and am trying to decide how
much to invest in lithium batteries. My commute is long (50+mi) and I'd
like to end up with a car that can make the drive. (I can charge at work)

My question is this: I've tried out several of the ev range calculators
online and am finding that with something like the Calb 180AH at 120 Volts
gets me to about 60 mi at 80% DOD. Does that sound reasonable?

Other info: motor is netgain warp 9", controller Curtis 1231C-8601 (or
something like it) Thanks,

Robert
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Discussion Starter #6
Robert Potter <[email protected]>wrote:

> Hi all
>
> I'm a newbie but have been lurking the list for some time. I've started
> converting my 1968 VW Squareback to electric and am trying to decide how
> much to invest in lithium batteries. My commute is long (50+mi) and I'd
> like to end up with a car that can make the drive. (I can charge at work)
>
> My question is this: I've tried out several of the ev range calculators
> online and am finding that with something like the Calb 180AH at 120 Volts
> gets me to about 60 mi at 80% DOD. Does that sound reasonable?
>

My car with 128V of 180AH Sky Energy does at least 80 miles to 80% -
http://www.evalbum.com/2406

It's a small car though and the speed is limited to 60. If you want to
drive ~70mph then your estimate is probably reasonable, I wouldn't use
anything smaller anyway as you should aim to minimise the voltage sag and
give yourself some margin, especially if you get very cold weather.
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Discussion Starter #7
Robert,

Yes, in my view that does sound reasonable. But bear in mind you
won't have much (any) power available for heating and cooling. If you
could stretch to 144V you would have a more capable system.

Regards, Martin Winlow
Herts, UK
http://www.evalbum.com/2092
www.winlow.co.uk



Robert Potter wrote:

> Hi all
>
> I'm a newbie but have been lurking the list for some time. I've
> started
> converting my 1968 VW Squareback to electric and am trying to decide
> how
> much to invest in lithium batteries. My commute is long (50+mi) and
> I'd
> like to end up with a car that can make the drive. (I can charge at
> work)
>
> My question is this: I've tried out several of the ev range
> calculators
> online and am finding that with something like the Calb 180AH at 120
> Volts
> gets me to about 60 mi at 80% DOD. Does that sound reasonable?
>
> Other info: motor is netgain warp 9", controller Curtis 1231C-8601
> (or
> something like it)
> Thanks,
>
> Robert



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Discussion Starter #8
Alan,

Are you referring to the 2 charts on the Elite Power home page?

If so, this may give hopelessly misleading information as it is fixed
to one vehicle's shape size and weight - there is no way to input the
aerodynamic effects of a very slippery or conversely, 'brick-like'
vehicle. These may a very significant difference to power needs at
anything over 30 to 40 mph.

I think the calculator based on Uve's original at http://www.evconvert.com/tools/evcalc
does a reasonable job, is easy to use and accounts for most
eventualities.

Regards, Martin Winlow
Herts, UK
http://www.evalbum.com/2092
www.winlow.co.uk

Alan Shaw wrote:

> Robert,
>
> I have searched and looked at as many ev range calculators as I can
> find. I
> believe
> that there is only 1 accurate graph available at the time. It is
> Elite Power
> Solutions
> EV application calculation. It matches exactly to the performance of
> my car.
>
> Alan
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Robert Potter <[email protected]>
>
> Hi all
>
> I'm a newbie but have been lurking the list for some time. I've
> started
> converting my 1968 VW Squareback to electric and am trying to decide
> how
> much to invest in lithium batteries. My commute is long (50+mi) and
> I'd
> like to end up with a car that can make the drive. (I can charge at
> work)
>
> My question is this: I've tried out several of the ev range
> calculators
> online and am finding that with something like the Calb 180AH at 120
> Volts
> gets me to about 60 mi at 80% DOD. Does that sound reasonable?
>
> Other info: motor is netgain warp 9", controller Curtis 1231C-8601
> (or
> something like it)
> Thanks,
>
> Robert

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Discussion Starter #9
You might check with Corbin here:

http://www.corbinstreehouse.com/blog/2010/04/electric-bug/

He just converted a VW bug with TS cells and drives fairly far on highway
to/from work. Could probably give you a pretty good number.

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Discussion Starter #10
Tom,

A Squareback is not a bug, that makes quite a difference.
Also, Corbin lives in the Santa Cruz mountains so it
depends on the terrain of the OP if it is easy to compare.
Last, but certainly not least is the speed.
If the 50+ miles to work are leisure country roads where
a 50 mile/hour speed is acceptable then he can drive
about twice as far as when he regularly needs to join
the freeway fry and keep up with ~70 MPH as that will
burn about twice as many electrons per mile...

It is all in the details that determine what is needed...

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of tomw
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 7:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Potential ev range

You might check with Corbin here:

http://www.corbinstreehouse.com/blog/2010/04/electric-bug/

He just converted a VW bug with TS cells and drives fairly far on
highway to/from work. Could probably give you a pretty good number.

--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Potential-e
v-range-tp3329072p3330935.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.

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Discussion Starter #11
That's true -- my driving conditions are quite harsh, since I have a huge hill to drive up and down.

Right now my car is down for a few weeks (controller and BMS upgrades -- The Elithion BMS now supports the Netgain Controller).

I'm not 100% sure I have my BMS set up correctly, but the longest drive I did so far was 52 miles, nearly all on the freeway going 55-65 mph, and including maintaining 50-55mph up highway 17 (5-7% grade for 6 or 7 minutes). At the end I was at 20% DOD. I'm using 48 200ah Thundersky cells; a 30.7 kw pack. That's 472 watts/mile, which is really high! My BMS setup values may not be right, which might indicate that I'm at 20% way sooner than I should be (it suddenly jumped from 50% to 20%, which indicates I have something setup wrong -- probably the "low voltage" point).

One I get more driving done and some accurate logging, I'll post some graphs and more information on my website.

corbin

Cor van de Water wrote:

> Tom,
>
> A Squareback is not a bug, that makes quite a difference.
> Also, Corbin lives in the Santa Cruz mountains so it
> depends on the terrain of the OP if it is easy to compare.
> Last, but certainly not least is the speed.
> If the 50+ miles to work are leisure country roads where
> a 50 mile/hour speed is acceptable then he can drive
> about twice as far as when he regularly needs to join
> the freeway fry and keep up with ~70 MPH as that will
> burn about twice as many electrons per mile...
>
> It is all in the details that determine what is needed...
>
> Cor van de Water
> Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of tomw
> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 7:02 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Potential ev range
>
> You might check with Corbin here:
>
> http://www.corbinstreehouse.com/blog/2010/04/electric-bug/
>
> He just converted a VW bug with TS cells and drives fairly far on
> highway to/from work. Could probably give you a pretty good number.
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Potential-e
> v-range-tp3329072p3330935.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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Discussion Starter #12
My daily drive here in the Willamette Valley is some rolling hills for the
first few miles and then pretty flat for the remainder of the drive
(freeway). I do sometimes have to go as far as 70 miles (ugh), so it sounds
like even with the 200ah cells I'd be right at the ragged edge of range....

Thanks to all for the great feedback.

Robert


corbin dunn <[email protected]>wrote:

> That's true -- my driving conditions are quite harsh, since I have a huge
> hill to drive up and down.
>
> Right now my car is down for a few weeks (controller and BMS upgrades --
> The Elithion BMS now supports the Netgain Controller).
>
> I'm not 100% sure I have my BMS set up correctly, but the longest drive I
> did so far was 52 miles, nearly all on the freeway going 55-65 mph, and
> including maintaining 50-55mph up highway 17 (5-7% grade for 6 or 7
> minutes). At the end I was at 20% DOD. I'm using 48 200ah Thundersky cells;
> a 30.7 kw pack. That's 472 watts/mile, which is really high! My BMS setup
> values may not be right, which might indicate that I'm at 20% way sooner
> than I should be (it suddenly jumped from 50% to 20%, which indicates I have
> something setup wrong -- probably the "low voltage" point).
>
> One I get more driving done and some accurate logging, I'll post some
> graphs and more information on my website.
>
> corbin
>
> On Mar 2, 2011, at 11:34 AM, Cor van de Water wrote:
>
> > Tom,
> >
> > A Squareback is not a bug, that makes quite a difference.
> > Also, Corbin lives in the Santa Cruz mountains so it
> > depends on the terrain of the OP if it is easy to compare.
> > Last, but certainly not least is the speed.
> > If the 50+ miles to work are leisure country roads where
> > a 50 mile/hour speed is acceptable then he can drive
> > about twice as far as when he regularly needs to join
> > the freeway fry and keep up with ~70 MPH as that will
> > burn about twice as many electrons per mile...
> >
> > It is all in the details that determine what is needed...
> >
> > Cor van de Water
> > Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
> > Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> > Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> > Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
> > Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> > Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> > Behalf Of tomw
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 7:02 PM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Potential ev range
> >
> > You might check with Corbin here:
> >
> > http://www.corbinstreehouse.com/blog/2010/04/electric-bug/
> >
> > He just converted a VW bug with TS cells and drives fairly far on
> > highway to/from work. Could probably give you a pretty good number.
> >
> > --
> > View this message in context:
> > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Potential-e
> > v-range-tp3329072p3330935.html
> > Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> > Nabble.com.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
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> >
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Discussion Starter #13
Corbin,

I think your BMS setup is somewhat adrift. I get that sort of mileage
at those speeds with my TS LFP160s (38 of them). So you should get a
good deal more. Your pack is around 31kWh as opposed to my 19kWh.
Further your vehicle is much more aerodynamic than mine.

BTW, according to my calcs, the 6 miles at 60mph at 6% grade only uses
2kWh due to increase in elevation of 580m (plus usual drag losses, of
course).

Regards, Martin Winlow
Herts, UK
http://www.evalbum.com/2092
www.winlow.co.uk


corbin dunn wrote:

> That's true -- my driving conditions are quite harsh, since I have a
> huge hill to drive up and down.
>
> Right now my car is down for a few weeks (controller and BMS
> upgrades -- The Elithion BMS now supports the Netgain Controller).
>
> I'm not 100% sure I have my BMS set up correctly, but the longest
> drive I did so far was 52 miles, nearly all on the freeway going
> 55-65 mph, and including maintaining 50-55mph up highway 17 (5-7%
> grade for 6 or 7 minutes). At the end I was at 20% DOD. I'm using 48
> 200ah Thundersky cells; a 30.7 kw pack. That's 472 watts/mile, which
> is really high! My BMS setup values may not be right, which might
> indicate that I'm at 20% way sooner than I should be (it suddenly
> jumped from 50% to 20%, which indicates I have something setup wrong
> -- probably the "low voltage" point).
>
> One I get more driving done and some accurate logging, I'll post
> some graphs and more information on my website.
>
> corbin
>
> On Mar 2, 2011, at 11:34 AM, Cor van de Water wrote:
>
>> Tom,
>>
>> A Squareback is not a bug, that makes quite a difference.
>> Also, Corbin lives in the Santa Cruz mountains so it
>> depends on the terrain of the OP if it is easy to compare.
>> Last, but certainly not least is the speed.
>> If the 50+ miles to work are leisure country roads where
>> a 50 mile/hour speed is acceptable then he can drive
>> about twice as far as when he regularly needs to join
>> the freeway fry and keep up with ~70 MPH as that will
>> burn about twice as many electrons per mile...
>>
>> It is all in the details that determine what is needed...
>>
>> Cor van de Water
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> Behalf Of tomw
>> You might check with Corbin here:
>> http://www.corbinstreehouse.com/blog/2010/04/electric-bug/
>> He just converted a VW bug with TS cells and drives fairly far on
>> highway to/from work. Could probably give you a pretty good number.
>>
>> --



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