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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Okay, I guess I killed my first pack. I had 24 US
145 batteries, I got about 15,000 miles over 2 and a
half year, about half of what I was expecting. I just
installed my second pack of the same batteries and
they are currently undergoing their first charge. I'd
like to query the list as to what I might have done to
shorten the first packs life. I set the Zilla for a
max draw of 350 amp and kept the draws under 300 most
of the time. I programed the low battery voltage to
128V and never pulled than lower that this. A typical
cycle was 35 to 40%. I think I went to 70 percent
discharged 3 times. I charged them to 2.583V per cell
and had the timer on my PFC set to 45 minutes and
usually charged at about 18 amps.
I talked to the people at US Battery and they
told me to follow what it states on their web page, as
seen below.

Q: How to charge USBMC deep cycle batteries.
A: There are numerous correct ways to charge the
batteries. Typically, charge at C=F710 amperes, (where C
=3D the 20 hour capacity of the system expressed in
Ampere Hours) until the battery voltage rises to 2.583
Volts per cell (i.e. 7.75 volts for a 6V battery).
Hold this voltage constant for 2 to 4 hours, and stop
charging. A similar method would be to charge at the
following upper limits and terminate the charge when
the time limit is reached:
* Charge Current =3D C=F710 Amperes
* Charge Voltage =3D 2.583 Volts per Cell
* Charge Time =3D 10 Hours Battery temperature
adjustment: reduce the voltage by 0.028 Volts per Cell
for every 10=B0F above 80=B0F, increase by the same amount
for temperatures below 80=B0F. =


Of the US 145 C/10 =3D 251/10=3D 25A for a charging
current, one the pack reaches 186V (2.583 X 3 X 24) I
should hold that voltage for 2 to 4 hours. If this is
correct I guess I could have been undercharging due to
only holding the voltage for about 45 minutes. This
seems a little excessive to me, bit what do I know.
I'm asking for input to try and get a little more life
out of this pack, It's crazy what the lead prices
have done lately. =

Thanks for any input... It's time to go on the
first run of the new pack.

TiM


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Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user pane=
l and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp=
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Registered
Joined
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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
On the one hand, I can understand that you wanted more
_time_ on your pack... you got 2..5 years, and wanted
4+. Understandable.
>From a mileage perspective, you came close to maxing. =

Lynn Adams (the other CivicWithACord) averaged 15K per
pack. He'd say you did well.
I share your concern about USB stating to "hold it
for 2-4 hrs."
This year, I'm holding it until the charge current
falls to under 10A on the average charge, and just
under 2A on an equalizing charge, which I do once per
week.
I am certain that going by time holding the charge
is what murdered _my_ first pack. USB will state that
they use more antimony, and the batteries can take it,
but I beg to differ, based on my experience.

Don't beat yourself up on this one; you're getting
some good mileage!

--- TiM M <[email protected]> wrote:

> Okay, I guess I killed my first pack. I had 24
> US
> 145 batteries, I got about 15,000 miles over 2 and a
> half year, about half of what I was expecting. I
> just
> installed my second pack of the same batteries and
> they are currently undergoing their first charge.
> I'd
> like to query the list as to what I might have done
> to
> shorten the first packs life. I set the Zilla for a
> max draw of 350 amp and kept the draws under 300
> most
> of the time. I programed the low battery voltage to
> 128V and never pulled than lower that this. A
> typical
> cycle was 35 to 40%. I think I went to 70 percent
> discharged 3 times. I charged them to 2.583V per
> cell
> and had the timer on my PFC set to 45 minutes and
> usually charged at about 18 amps.
> I talked to the people at US Battery and they
> told me to follow what it states on their web page,
> as
> seen below.
> =

> Q: How to charge USBMC deep cycle batteries.
> A: There are numerous correct ways to charge the
> batteries. Typically, charge at C=F710 amperes, (where
> C
> =3D the 20 hour capacity of the system expressed in
> Ampere Hours) until the battery voltage rises to
> 2.583
> Volts per cell (i.e. 7.75 volts for a 6V battery).
> Hold this voltage constant for 2 to 4 hours, and
> stop
> charging. A similar method would be to charge at the
> following upper limits and terminate the charge when
> the time limit is reached:
> * Charge Current =3D C=F710 Amperes
> * Charge Voltage =3D 2.583 Volts per Cell
> * Charge Time =3D 10 Hours Battery temperature
> adjustment: reduce the voltage by 0.028 Volts per
> Cell
> for every 10=B0F above 80=B0F, increase by the same
> amount
> for temperatures below 80=B0F. =

> =

> Of the US 145 C/10 =3D 251/10=3D 25A for a charging
> current, one the pack reaches 186V (2.583 X 3 X 24)
> I
> should hold that voltage for 2 to 4 hours. If this
> is
> correct I guess I could have been undercharging due
> to
> only holding the voltage for about 45 minutes. This
> seems a little excessive to me, bit what do I know.
> I'm asking for input to try and get a little more
> life
> out of this pack, It's crazy what the lead prices
> have done lately. =

> Thanks for any input... It's time to go on the
> first run of the new pack.
> =

> TiM
> =

> =

> =

>
___________________________________________________________________________=
_________
> Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. =

> Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.
>
http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=3D7
> =

> =

> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> =



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y '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too! =

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el? Are you saving any gas for your kids?


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Registered
Joined
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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Hello Tim,

I only travel about 2000 miles a year and so far I got 12000 miles on my =

Trojans T-145's which is six years now. Most of my driving is at a average =

of 25 mph, which is all city driving with only one stop which is at the end =

of the run. I plan to get new batteries on Jan 4 2012 which will break my =

last record time of 11 years on my last pack which was the Exide XP 220.

I set my Zilla to a maximum of 400 batteries amps, but never got the batter=
y =

amps that high. The most battery amps I ever pull was about 240 amps while =

accelerating like a mad man one time. The normal accelerating battery =

amperes is about 120 amps and the running amperes is about 40 to 50 amps.

If I press the accelerator to the floor and keep in 1st gear which is a =

overall ratio of 19.5:1, the motor ampere goes up to 300 amps and then fall=
s =

back to about 125 amps as the motor rpm is at about 6000 rpm at 25 mph.

Now is I shift to the 2nd gear which is about 13.9:1, the motor ampere will =

increase to 200 amps going up to 45 mph at 6000 rpm. The battery amperes at =

that time is now about 50 amps.

The 2.583 volts per cell is a too high voltage for a normal charge for may =

batteries. I charge at this voltage only if my batteries kept out of =

balance which may be once every four months when I water them.

My normal charge with the PFC is 2.46 volts or 7.4 volts at a maximum =

battery temperature of 80 degrees. I normally charge the batteries at 35 A=
C =

amps which is about 40 DC amps at any time the batteries are down to 75% =

State of Charge. It takes about only 30 minutes for the batteries to reach =

7.4 volts per battery. The time out is set for about 30 minutes which abou=
t =

right for the AH on the Emeter to come to 0 AH.

I normally do not charge 10 percent more all the time, because the 0 AH =

display is plenty for the distance I travel. I normally take out 50 AH out =

of the battery and may require to return 55 AH for a 100 percent charge.

To see what the total ampere and voltage is, I have a motor volt and amp =

meter, a battery volt and amp meter, a battery charger DC amp and volt mete=
r =

and a battery charger AC amp and volt meter. You will be surprise on the =

readings between these meters.

Your charge of 18 amps on a PFC if its DC amps, will be about 15 amps AC. =

You can adjust a PFC-20 right at 20 amps DC which the AC will be about 18 =

amps AC if your power cord is a short length or the power cord is the next =

ampere higher rating.

Roland











----- Original Message ----- =

From: "TiM M" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 4:49 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Proper care and feeding of lead acid


Okay, I guess I killed my first pack. I had 24 US
145 batteries, I got about 15,000 miles over 2 and a
half year, about half of what I was expecting. I just
installed my second pack of the same batteries and
they are currently undergoing their first charge. I'd
like to query the list as to what I might have done to
shorten the first packs life. I set the Zilla for a
max draw of 350 amp and kept the draws under 300 most
of the time. I programed the low battery voltage to
128V and never pulled than lower that this. A typical
cycle was 35 to 40%. I think I went to 70 percent
discharged 3 times. I charged them to 2.583V per cell
and had the timer on my PFC set to 45 minutes and
usually charged at about 18 amps.
I talked to the people at US Battery and they
told me to follow what it states on their web page, as
seen below.

Q: How to charge USBMC deep cycle batteries.
A: There are numerous correct ways to charge the
batteries. Typically, charge at C=F710 amperes, (where C
=3D the 20 hour capacity of the system expressed in
Ampere Hours) until the battery voltage rises to 2.583
Volts per cell (i.e. 7.75 volts for a 6V battery).
Hold this voltage constant for 2 to 4 hours, and stop
charging. A similar method would be to charge at the
following upper limits and terminate the charge when
the time limit is reached:
* Charge Current =3D C=F710 Amperes
* Charge Voltage =3D 2.583 Volts per Cell
* Charge Time =3D 10 Hours Battery temperature
adjustment: reduce the voltage by 0.028 Volts per Cell
for every 10=B0F above 80=B0F, increase by the same amount
for temperatures below 80=B0F.

Of the US 145 C/10 =3D 251/10=3D 25A for a charging
current, one the pack reaches 186V (2.583 X 3 X 24) I
should hold that voltage for 2 to 4 hours. If this is
correct I guess I could have been undercharging due to
only holding the voltage for about 45 minutes. This
seems a little excessive to me, bit what do I know.
I'm asking for input to try and get a little more life
out of this pack, It's crazy what the lead prices
have done lately.
Thanks for any input... It's time to go on the
first run of the new pack.

TiM


_____________________________________________________________________=
_______________
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user pane=
l =

and lay it on us. =

http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=3D7

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev =


_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Tim,

You sound like you did everything right. A few questions I have are:

1. Did you do equalization charges on the pack? =


2. Did all the batteries fail or did you have a couple sinkers bringing do=
wn the entire pack?

3. Did you use the regulators on each battery to keep some from getting ov=
ercharged when using the PFC? If not, you might want to do the regulators =
complete with REGBUS back to the PFC so you don't cook the batteries during=
charging. =


4. How often during your charge cycles did you have to add water? =


5. Do you have a way to charge/monitor the performance of each battery in =
your pack?






Jody =


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behal=
f Of Roland Wiench
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 20:06
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Proper care and feeding of lead acid

Hello Tim,

I only travel about 2000 miles a year and so far I got 12000 miles on my Tr=
ojans T-145's which is six years now. Most of my driving is at a average o=
f 25 mph, which is all city driving with only one stop which is at the end =
of the run. I plan to get new batteries on Jan 4 2012 which will break my l=
ast record time of 11 years on my last pack which was the Exide XP 220.

I set my Zilla to a maximum of 400 batteries amps, but never got the batter=
y amps that high. The most battery amps I ever pull was about 240 amps whi=
le accelerating like a mad man one time. The normal accelerating battery a=
mperes is about 120 amps and the running amperes is about 40 to 50 amps.

If I press the accelerator to the floor and keep in 1st gear which is a ove=
rall ratio of 19.5:1, the motor ampere goes up to 300 amps and then falls b=
ack to about 125 amps as the motor rpm is at about 6000 rpm at 25 mph.

Now is I shift to the 2nd gear which is about 13.9:1, the motor ampere will=
increase to 200 amps going up to 45 mph at 6000 rpm. The battery amperes a=
t that time is now about 50 amps.

The 2.583 volts per cell is a too high voltage for a normal charge for may =
batteries. I charge at this voltage only if my batteries kept out of balan=
ce which may be once every four months when I water them.

My normal charge with the PFC is 2.46 volts or 7.4 volts at a maximum batte=
ry temperature of 80 degrees. I normally charge the batteries at 35 AC amp=
s which is about 40 DC amps at any time the batteries are down to 75% State=
of Charge. It takes about only 30 minutes for the batteries to reach
7.4 volts per battery. The time out is set for about 30 minutes which abou=
t right for the AH on the Emeter to come to 0 AH.

I normally do not charge 10 percent more all the time, because the 0 AH dis=
play is plenty for the distance I travel. I normally take out 50 AH out of=
the battery and may require to return 55 AH for a 100 percent charge.

To see what the total ampere and voltage is, I have a motor volt and amp me=
ter, a battery volt and amp meter, a battery charger DC amp and volt meter =
and a battery charger AC amp and volt meter. You will be surprise on the r=
eadings between these meters.

Your charge of 18 amps on a PFC if its DC amps, will be about 15 amps AC. =

You can adjust a PFC-20 right at 20 amps DC which the AC will be about 18 a=
mps AC if your power cord is a short length or the power cord is the next a=
mpere higher rating.

Roland











----- Original Message -----
From: "TiM M" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 4:49 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Proper care and feeding of lead acid


Okay, I guess I killed my first pack. I had 24 US
145 batteries, I got about 15,000 miles over 2 and a
half year, about half of what I was expecting. I just
installed my second pack of the same batteries and
they are currently undergoing their first charge. I'd
like to query the list as to what I might have done to
shorten the first packs life. I set the Zilla for a
max draw of 350 amp and kept the draws under 300 most
of the time. I programed the low battery voltage to
128V and never pulled than lower that this. A typical
cycle was 35 to 40%. I think I went to 70 percent
discharged 3 times. I charged them to 2.583V per cell
and had the timer on my PFC set to 45 minutes and
usually charged at about 18 amps.
I talked to the people at US Battery and they
told me to follow what it states on their web page, as
seen below.

Q: How to charge USBMC deep cycle batteries.
A: There are numerous correct ways to charge the
batteries. Typically, charge at C=F710 amperes, (where C
=3D the 20 hour capacity of the system expressed in
Ampere Hours) until the battery voltage rises to 2.583
Volts per cell (i.e. 7.75 volts for a 6V battery).
Hold this voltage constant for 2 to 4 hours, and stop
charging. A similar method would be to charge at the
following upper limits and terminate the charge when
the time limit is reached:
* Charge Current =3D C=F710 Amperes
* Charge Voltage =3D 2.583 Volts per Cell
* Charge Time =3D 10 Hours Battery temperature
adjustment: reduce the voltage by 0.028 Volts per Cell
for every 10=B0F above 80=B0F, increase by the same amount
for temperatures below 80=B0F.

Of the US 145 C/10 =3D 251/10=3D 25A for a charging
current, one the pack reaches 186V (2.583 X 3 X 24) I
should hold that voltage for 2 to 4 hours. If this is
correct I guess I could have been undercharging due to
only holding the voltage for about 45 minutes. This
seems a little excessive to me, bit what do I know.
I'm asking for input to try and get a little more life
out of this pack, It's crazy what the lead prices
have done lately.
Thanks for any input... It's time to go on the
first run of the new pack.

TiM


_____________________________________________________________________=
_______________
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user pane=
l =

and lay it on us. =

http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=3D7

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev =


_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
----- Original Message ----- =

From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 6:22 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Proper care and feeding of lead acid


Tim,

You sound like you did everything right. A few questions I have are:

1. Did you do equalization charges on the pack?

The some batteries may only get about 0.02 volt difference from
each other. I may equalize charge about every four months.

2. Did all the batteries fail or did you have a couple sinkers bringing =

down the entire pack?

So far in six years, I had no batteries fail. I did have a post
problem with studs pulling out, but I fix that with clamp ons.

3. Did you use the regulators on each battery to keep some from getting =

overcharged when using the PFC? If not, you might want to do the regulator=
s =

complete with REGBUS back to the PFC so you don't cook the batteries during =

charging.

Do not have the regulators on these batteries. These batteries
do not get that far out of balance. According to Trojan, these
batteries can get out of balance up to 5 percent out. Never had
more than 0.02 volt difference.

4. How often during your charge cycles did you have to add water?

It takes me about four days to use 50 AH which is still 75
percent charge. About every three or four months, I first charge
the batteries to a maximum acceptance voltage of 222 volts on a
180 volt pack. Turn off the charger and add about 6 gallons of
distill water to the batteries and than turn on the charge to do
a finish charge until my Emeter reads 0 AH and/or the batteries
read 1.275 sg.


5. Do you have a way to charge/monitor the performance of each battery in =

your pack?

About once a year, I would check the status of each battery with
a solid state smart charger which has displays percentage of
charge and voltage.

When the batteries where new, I would do this about once a month
and found when one of the batteries was 0.02 volts difference, I
would turn on the charger which took only 30 to 60 seconds to make
that battery the same voltage and percentage of charge of the rest

I then record all this data on a battery chart or spread sheet
which through the years, can predict the resending performance of
the batteries.

If these type of batteries were discharge harder than the normal
50 amps and to or below 50% DOD, driving long distances, I may
have use the regulator units.

Way back in the 70's a EV scientist told me, always put the
largest AH battery in a electric car that you can fit it. Stay
above 50% DOD, pipe in plenty of exchange air into the battery
which reduces fluid loss which will give you long life, and that's
what I did.

Roland






Jody

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behal=
f =

Of Roland Wiench
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 20:06
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Proper care and feeding of lead acid

Hello Tim,

I only travel about 2000 miles a year and so far I got 12000 miles on my =

Trojans T-145's which is six years now. Most of my driving is at a average =

of 25 mph, which is all city driving with only one stop which is at the end =

of the run. I plan to get new batteries on Jan 4 2012 which will break my =

last record time of 11 years on my last pack which was the Exide XP 220.

I set my Zilla to a maximum of 400 batteries amps, but never got the batter=
y =

amps that high. The most battery amps I ever pull was about 240 amps while =

accelerating like a mad man one time. The normal accelerating battery =

amperes is about 120 amps and the running amperes is about 40 to 50 amps.

If I press the accelerator to the floor and keep in 1st gear which is a =

overall ratio of 19.5:1, the motor ampere goes up to 300 amps and then fall=
s =

back to about 125 amps as the motor rpm is at about 6000 rpm at 25 mph.

Now is I shift to the 2nd gear which is about 13.9:1, the motor ampere will =

increase to 200 amps going up to 45 mph at 6000 rpm. The battery amperes at =

that time is now about 50 amps.

The 2.583 volts per cell is a too high voltage for a normal charge for may =

batteries. I charge at this voltage only if my batteries kept out of =

balance which may be once every four months when I water them.

My normal charge with the PFC is 2.46 volts or 7.4 volts at a maximum =

battery temperature of 80 degrees. I normally charge the batteries at 35 A=
C =

amps which is about 40 DC amps at any time the batteries are down to 75% =

State of Charge. It takes about only 30 minutes for the batteries to reach
7.4 volts per battery. The time out is set for about 30 minutes which abou=
t =

right for the AH on the Emeter to come to 0 AH.

I normally do not charge 10 percent more all the time, because the 0 AH =

display is plenty for the distance I travel. I normally take out 50 AH out =

of the battery and may require to return 55 AH for a 100 percent charge.

To see what the total ampere and voltage is, I have a motor volt and amp =

meter, a battery volt and amp meter, a battery charger DC amp and volt mete=
r =

and a battery charger AC amp and volt meter. You will be surprise on the =

readings between these meters.

Your charge of 18 amps on a PFC if its DC amps, will be about 15 amps AC.
You can adjust a PFC-20 right at 20 amps DC which the AC will be about 18 =

amps AC if your power cord is a short length or the power cord is the next =

ampere higher rating.

Roland











----- Original Message -----
From: "TiM M" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 4:49 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Proper care and feeding of lead acid


Okay, I guess I killed my first pack. I had 24 US
145 batteries, I got about 15,000 miles over 2 and a
half year, about half of what I was expecting. I just
installed my second pack of the same batteries and
they are currently undergoing their first charge. I'd
like to query the list as to what I might have done to
shorten the first packs life. I set the Zilla for a
max draw of 350 amp and kept the draws under 300 most
of the time. I programed the low battery voltage to
128V and never pulled than lower that this. A typical
cycle was 35 to 40%. I think I went to 70 percent
discharged 3 times. I charged them to 2.583V per cell
and had the timer on my PFC set to 45 minutes and
usually charged at about 18 amps.
I talked to the people at US Battery and they
told me to follow what it states on their web page, as
seen below.

Q: How to charge USBMC deep cycle batteries.
A: There are numerous correct ways to charge the
batteries. Typically, charge at C=F710 amperes, (where C
=3D the 20 hour capacity of the system expressed in
Ampere Hours) until the battery voltage rises to 2.583
Volts per cell (i.e. 7.75 volts for a 6V battery).
Hold this voltage constant for 2 to 4 hours, and stop
charging. A similar method would be to charge at the
following upper limits and terminate the charge when
the time limit is reached:
* Charge Current =3D C=F710 Amperes
* Charge Voltage =3D 2.583 Volts per Cell
* Charge Time =3D 10 Hours Battery temperature
adjustment: reduce the voltage by 0.028 Volts per Cell
for every 10=B0F above 80=B0F, increase by the same amount
for temperatures below 80=B0F.

Of the US 145 C/10 =3D 251/10=3D 25A for a charging
current, one the pack reaches 186V (2.583 X 3 X 24) I
should hold that voltage for 2 to 4 hours. If this is
correct I guess I could have been undercharging due to
only holding the voltage for about 45 minutes. This
seems a little excessive to me, bit what do I know.
I'm asking for input to try and get a little more life
out of this pack, It's crazy what the lead prices
have done lately.
Thanks for any input... It's time to go on the
first run of the new pack.

TiM


_____________________________________________________________________=
_______________
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel
and lay it on us.
http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=3D7

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev =


_______________________________________________
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·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for the input. I don't have any balancing
on the pack. I equalized once a month or so and added
water about the same. To equalize I would rest the PFC
after it had timed out. Towards the end when I was
trying to keep the pack going I did some long low
current charges. The pack started finishing at higher
and higher currents to reach the finishing voltage. I
had to lower the final voltage to keep the finishing
current from being too high. Cells started going on
various batteries. I replaced one, two weeks later I
replaced a second a week after that I jumpered a third
one that went bad, a week later a 4th went belly up. I
called it quits and ordered a replacement.
The typical cycle is between 35 and 65 mph for 9
miles followed by a 7 mile return at 35 but almost
uphill all the way.

TiM

PS I've noticed for probably 6 months or more the EVDL
digests don't always arrive in order. Sometimes I'll
go a day or two before the missing digests show up.
They always do show up, just not in the order that
they should. I'm using Yahoo mail.

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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
You might want to invest in a battery balancer for your new pack. I
would also recommend individual equalization. Just putting the PFC on
for a long time is not equalizing your pack since some batteries will
cook to bring the others up to snuff. Without equalization you end up
cooking the good batteries for the sake of the not so good ones.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of TiM M
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 14:35
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Proper care and feeding of lead acid

Thanks for the input. I don't have any balancing on the pack. I
equalized once a month or so and added water about the same. To equalize
I would rest the PFC after it had timed out. Towards the end when I was
trying to keep the pack going I did some long low current charges. The
pack started finishing at higher and higher currents to reach the
finishing voltage. I had to lower the final voltage to keep the
finishing current from being too high. Cells started going on various
batteries. I replaced one, two weeks later I replaced a second a week
after that I jumpered a third one that went bad, a week later a 4th went
belly up. I called it quits and ordered a replacement.
The typical cycle is between 35 and 65 mph for 9 miles followed by
a 7 mile return at 35 but almost uphill all the way.

TiM

PS I've noticed for probably 6 months or more the EVDL digests don't
always arrive in order. Sometimes I'll go a day or two before the
missing digests show up.
They always do show up, just not in the order that they should. I'm
using Yahoo mail.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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For subscription options, see
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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Well, there are a couple things you could try. Get a charger for all your
batteries. Okay I think you said 24 batteries, so connecting 24 chargers is
a little ridiculous! But you could get 6. schumacher makes a computer smart
6 v charger that puts out 6amps/hr and also functions at 12v and I've seen
them for $13 each when a few are bought at a time, used. This would
definitely balance the pack perfectly, by charging them all individually
once a week. Also, you could connect desulfators, same way as you connected
the chargers. Desulfators come in 6,12,24,36,48, and even 72V from different
companies and cost from $30 to $95 for a 72V from say battery life saver. I
have a couple from japan myself. Probab get a few more. Won't know if it
helped until I put on mileage like you. From my experience on reviving dead
batteries they do help get it going again and hold more charge,but then need
to be connected permanently to the desulfator to maintain that level. I
believe battery life saver has an article on how to revive an old battery.
My dad in the 1950's used drain the battery of all the acid, the refill with
distilled water and charge the dickens out of it with a 100 amp DUMB charger
(100-150lb roll cart type) for some specific time. Then they would refill
with new acid blend and presto battery was good for at least 6months and
worked good he said. Assuming it was the first time this was done. I
wouldn't try this! as it might work for starting a gas engine, but not an
EV. Definitely, a lot of work. andrew payne
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View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Proper-care-and-feeding-of-lead-acid-tf4332610s25542.html#a12377737
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
On 28 Aug 2007 at 15:39, ampaynz1 wrote:

> schumacher makes a computer smart 6 v
> charger that puts out 6amps/hr ...

Please don't take this personally, and I don't mean to be petty, but there
is an error in this statement that really should be corrected to help
novices understand the electrical principles that apply to EVs.

There is no such unit as "amps per hour." It's a nonsense unit, and I mean
that quite literally. It's kind of like specifying the size of a house in
square feet per hour.

I assume you meant to wrote "amps" or "amperes," which would make sense in
this context.

It might be time again to suggest that EVDL members read Edward Ang's page :

http://www.evsource.com/articles/mind_your_units.php

> Also, you could connect desulfators, same way as you connected the chargers.
> Desulfators come in 6,12,24,36,48, and even 72V from different companies and
> cost from $30 to $95 for a 72V from say battery life saver.

I was going to say that "desulfators" are controversial, but I'm feeling a
bit cranky tonight. ;-)

There is no properly gathered verifiable evidence that "desulfators" really
do what they claim to do. All the reported evidence is anecdotal, most of
it gathered by those who have a vested interest in reporting success.

My suggestion : don't waste your money. You'll get the same or better
performance for less money from an ordinary charger.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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