Cor van de Water <
[email protected]>wrote:
> Hi Steve,
>
> If you can charge at work then it is no issue at all to do
> 10,000 miles a year. And get good service from lead-acids.
> Sam Rogers had a 20 mile each way commute on I-40 in LA,
> so most time he ran pedal to the metal 72 MPH in his
> US Electricar S10, charged at work and back home.
> In just over a year he put 12,000 miles on his pack,
> last I heard.
> BTW, this is with a pack of 26 batteries (34kWh nom)
> You can look up his posts on the Yahoo US Electricar
> group, the archive is open to everyone.
> I agree with the maintenance issue, it was due to
> essentially two individuals on the group that did most
> of the reverse engineering of these vehicles that made
> many more vehicles come out of the woodwork, because
> finally there was a way to fix them and get them running
> and even have some old and annoying dropout problems
> finally solved plus a bunch of other quality issues
> that the original factory guys had no time to figure out.
>
> It increased the value of each of the US Electricars
> manifold and the largest part of the US Electricars that
> were ever produced are now in hands of owners that are
> connected via this group.
>
> Another EV that had a comparable revival was I think the
> Ford Ranger EV, where EV Bones made a small business out
> of revitalizing them and bringing them back on the road
> with warranty.
> After they services the larger part of the still existing
> Rangers they stopped accepting them as they shifted their
> focus to another business.
> Indeed it is good to have EVs become mainstream and get
> some solid manufacturer names and service organizations
> where the non-technical owners can rely on.
>
> Regards,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email:
[email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM:
[email protected]
> Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
[email protected] [mailto:
[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of Steve Powers
> Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 7:00 PM
> To: ev
> Subject: [EVDL] recent discussion, leaf, range, Li Ion,conversion
> servicability
>
> I read a little of the recent discussion on the Leaf and the down play
> of it. I'm an EV guy and have been doing this for a long time. I've
> owned 8 EV's and have 2 right now. So, I would consider myself informed
> about EVs, range limitation, servicability, etc. Here is my take:
>
> 1) I am really excited to see a mainstream EV that Joe Sixpack can go to
> a dealer and buy. And, if it breaks, he has a way to get it serviced.
> And, it comes with a warranty so he isn't worried if it is a dud. This
> is the biggest issue with EVs currently available. Excluding the Tesla,
> which is available, and can be serviced somehow. All other EVs out
> there today are either home made (one off designs), limited production
> from a conversion company (with very limited support, if any), old OEM
> vehicles with absolutely no support (S-10, Ranger, etc. - basically
> anything built in the late 90's or early part of the 00's). The trouble
> with all these is:
> When they need service - good luck! You are on your own. I am
> an engineer, and I can fix my own EV to an extent. But, there are
> some things that even I can't do. Some EV's are essentially scrap
> if they break because there is no reasonable way to repair them,
> short of re-engineering the whole car. This is a major reason why
> EV's have got a bad rap.
> So, I'm excited purely because they are available and sustainable.
>
> 2) I have a major issue with all range claims on any EV's, and I have
> had that issue for years. Anyone with EV experience knows what I am
> talking about. People seem to state range on ideal conditions, and in
> your real world, you are lucky to get 1/2 what they tell you. Are they
> lying? Not really. They are truthful assuming you drive it on a flat
> test track at 25 MPH constant speed on an almost new batt pack under all
> ideal conditions. Pretty much all automotive advertising is this way.
> Do you really get 31 MPG if that is what the label says? NO. Not in my
> real world. So, set your expectations straight. Understand what the
> technology can do. If it works for you, and you want the car, get it.
> Otherwise get something different. There is always the Volt, which
> eliminates the range anxiety issue and still runs on battery only for UP
> TO 40 miles. I never said 40 miles. It may be 20 miles some days.
>
> 3) More on range. I find all these statistics very annoying. My
> household has a 2005 car that we got new in late 05. It now has about
> 55,000 miles. Tht works out to 965 miles / month. And I consider us
> people that don't drive much. Even on the low side, excluding long
> trips, we need at least 900 miles / month, year round, hot cold, rain,
> sleet, and snow. So, you take the 900 and divide by 30. So, then we
> need 30 miles on average. So, why not get some old conversion with
> 16-18 golf cart batteries and we'd be set? First of all. Been there,
> done that, have two of them sitting in the garage / driveway. One of
> those old golf cart battery driven conversions with 16-18 batteries is
> good for a reliable 20-25 miles. That's it. And, in cold weather, real
> cold weather, make that 18-20 miles. Never going to make it 30 miles if
> you want the batteries to last. I know becuse my two really old
> conversions have 14,500 and 25,000 EV miles respectively.
> That's not a lot of EV miles for cars that are this old. And they are
> more than 15 years old, one is 30 years old. 25,000 miles in 30 years.
> Even the one I drove regularly, I had trouble putting more than
> 4000-5000 miles / year. And, I was really trying to drive it whenever I
> could. Opportunity charging and everything. So, working hard to drive
> an EV in the real world, I can get 5000 miles per year. Most people
> need at least 10,000 miles / year. Others need 15,000 plus. Based on
> all that, using lead acid batts, I would need at least 35 batteries.
> Then, I need a bigger vehicle. That is less efficient and that 35 goes
> to 40. So, 40 golf cart batteries to make an EV that is actually
> useful, assuming golf cart batteries. Can anyone say Red Beastie?
> Anything less and I'm stuck back in the 4000 - 5000 miles per year. So,
> you say Li Ion. I say, you need a big old bag of money. You need the
> batts. You need a balancing system. You need a real high end charger.
> You probably need temperature controlled environment. You need a whole
> lot of stuff. Don't have that stuff and it won't last. I don't care
> how careful you think you are or how bulletproof you think your system
> is. Things happen. They will happen and that is a lot of money to
> lose. If you have all that money, buy a leaf or Volt. At least you get
> a warranty and *serviceability*.
>
> I'm glad to see these EVs and have them available. I just hope everyone
> straightens out their expectations so they don't get a bad wrap again.
> Stop trying to sell your old 16 golf cart battery conversion with a
> fictional 40 mile range. Tell the truth. That goes for the auto makers
> too. Anyone who has misled someone about EV performance or range is
> just as guilty as the next guy. It is time for everyone to tell the
> truth. Then, people will actually buy EVs. When they can trust the
> spec sheet.
>
> Steve
>
> _______________________________________________________
>
>
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