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Discussion Starter #1
Howdy everybody,

So I installed my new-to-me Russco SC 18-120 SO and 24 new T105
batteries yesterday. Mostly it went well. But now upon charging I'm a
bit confused. I plugged the pack in around 8pm last night, and it's
still charging now at 10:45am; the shutoff timer hasn't even started.
Isn't 15+ hours a really long time for this? Also, I thought I
understood that the battery current should steadily fall as the voltage
rises during charging...but last night (when the DC volts showed ~151)
the DC amps were showing ~6, and now (showing 161v) they are around 10.

Is this a problem, or am I just paranoid and it's doing what it's
supposed to be doing?

Hunter

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Discussion Starter #2
Sorry, I forgot to mention how the dials were set. I have the voltage
dial on 80, as recommended in the manual as a good starting point for a
144v pack. The current is on 70, which had it pulling ~12A from the wall
initially. Right now it says it's only pulling about 2A from the wall,
but the DC amps are around 11.

Hunter Cook wrote:
> Howdy everybody,
>
> So I installed my new-to-me Russco SC 18-120 SO and 24 new T105
> batteries yesterday. Mostly it went well. But now upon charging I'm a
> bit confused. I plugged the pack in around 8pm last night, and it's
> still charging now at 10:45am; the shutoff timer hasn't even started.
> Isn't 15+ hours a really long time for this? Also, I thought I
> understood that the battery current should steadily fall as the voltage
> rises during charging...but last night (when the DC volts showed ~151)
> the DC amps were showing ~6, and now (showing 161v) they are around 10.
>
> Is this a problem, or am I just paranoid and it's doing what it's
> supposed to be doing?
>
> Hunter
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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Discussion Starter #3
Hunter Cook <[email protected]> wrote:
> Sorry, I forgot to mention how the dials were set. I have the voltage
> dial on 80, as recommended in the manual as a good starting point for a
> 144v pack. The current is on 70, which had it pulling ~12A from the wall
> initially. Right now it says it's only pulling about 2A from the wall,
> but the DC amps are around 11.

I bet it isn't, your amp-meter is probably faulty.

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Discussion Starter #4
Your maximum charge volts should be about 7.5 x 24 = 180 volts at a battery
temperature of 80 F. Your battery charger should be set at this voltage,
which is the maximum voltage it will go to.

Setting the ampere rate if it's a constant current type of charger, the
voltage will rise to that set point. When the voltage gets to that maximum
voltage you set, then the ampere should drop. You should monitor it the
first time, to see how long it takes for the ampere to drop to about 10
percent of the ampere-hour of the battery. This is how long your timer is
set at.

Lets say your batteries are at 50% State of Charge (SOC) and you remove
about 100 AH from the battery, and you are charging at 6 amps, this will
take about 100 ah / 6 amps = 16.6 hours plus about 10 percent more.

If you started at 6 amps, then you have only 14 hours of charge on this
battery. I normally charge my T-145's at 35 to 45 amps which takes about
hour at 75% SOC. The higher ampere hour battery takes a little more force
to rise the voltage to the maximum setting.

I test out charging my batteries at a very low ampere rating, and its take
for ever to charge it. The voltage will only rise to a certain amount and
just sets there.

Roland


----- Original Message -----
From: "Hunter Cook" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 9:51 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Russco confusion


> Howdy everybody,
>
> So I installed my new-to-me Russco SC 18-120 SO and 24 new T105
> batteries yesterday. Mostly it went well. But now upon charging I'm a
> bit confused. I plugged the pack in around 8pm last night, and it's
> still charging now at 10:45am; the shutoff timer hasn't even started.
> Isn't 15+ hours a really long time for this? Also, I thought I
> understood that the battery current should steadily fall as the voltage
> rises during charging...but last night (when the DC volts showed ~151)
> the DC amps were showing ~6, and now (showing 161v) they are around 10.
>
> Is this a problem, or am I just paranoid and it's doing what it's
> supposed to be doing?
>
> Hunter
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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Discussion Starter #5
Really? It's not a seperate meter...there's one LCD readout and a dial
to switch between ACA/ACV/DCA/DCV. Could just one setting on it be
busted like that?

> I bet it isn't, your amp-meter is probably faulty.
>
> _______________________________________________
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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks a lot Roland; as usual it was very enlightening. I'm confused on
one point though; you say to watch for the amps to drop to 10% of the
amp-hour capacity of the battery, which for t105s is 225Ah....I haven't
seen the amps anywhere near 22.5, so far the highest I've seen is about
11. Am I missing something important here?

Roland Wiench wrote:
> Your maximum charge volts should be about 7.5 x 24 = 180 volts at a battery
> temperature of 80 F. Your battery charger should be set at this voltage,
> which is the maximum voltage it will go to.
>
> Setting the ampere rate if it's a constant current type of charger, the
> voltage will rise to that set point. When the voltage gets to that maximum
> voltage you set, then the ampere should drop. You should monitor it the
> first time, to see how long it takes for the ampere to drop to about 10
> percent of the ampere-hour of the battery. This is how long your timer is
> set at.
>
> Lets say your batteries are at 50% State of Charge (SOC) and you remove
> about 100 AH from the battery, and you are charging at 6 amps, this will
> take about 100 ah / 6 amps = 16.6 hours plus about 10 percent more.
>
> If you started at 6 amps, then you have only 14 hours of charge on this
> battery. I normally charge my T-145's at 35 to 45 amps which takes about
> hour at 75% SOC. The higher ampere hour battery takes a little more force
> to rise the voltage to the maximum setting.
>
> I test out charging my batteries at a very low ampere rating, and its take
> for ever to charge it. The voltage will only rise to a certain amount and
> just sets there.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hunter Cook" <[email protected]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 9:51 AM
> Subject: [EVDL] Russco confusion
>
>
> > Howdy everybody,
> >
> > So I installed my new-to-me Russco SC 18-120 SO and 24 new T105
> > batteries yesterday. Mostly it went well. But now upon charging I'm a
> > bit confused. I plugged the pack in around 8pm last night, and it's
> > still charging now at 10:45am; the shutoff timer hasn't even started.
> > Isn't 15+ hours a really long time for this? Also, I thought I
> > understood that the battery current should steadily fall as the voltage
> > rises during charging...but last night (when the DC volts showed ~151)
> > the DC amps were showing ~6, and now (showing 161v) they are around 10.
> >
> > Is this a problem, or am I just paranoid and it's doing what it's
> > supposed to be doing?
> >
> > Hunter
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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Discussion Starter #7
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hunter Cook" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 10:48 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Russco confusion


> Thanks a lot Roland; as usual it was very enlightening. I'm confused on
> one point though; you say to watch for the amps to drop to 10% of the
> amp-hour capacity of the battery, which for t105s is 225Ah....I haven't
> seen the amps anywhere near 22.5, so far the highest I've seen is about
> 11. Am I missing something important here?

Made a boo boo, it should at least 1/20th or even better yet when the
batteries are new at 1/40th. Mine batteries after six years old are about
C/20 now.
>
>
Roland Wiench wrote:
> > Your maximum charge volts should be about 7.5 x 24 = 180 volts at a
> > battery
> > temperature of 80 F. Your battery charger should be set at this
> > voltage,
> > which is the maximum voltage it will go to.
> >
> > Setting the ampere rate if it's a constant current type of charger, the
> > voltage will rise to that set point. When the voltage gets to that
> > maximum
> > voltage you set, then the ampere should drop. You should monitor it the
> > first time, to see how long it takes for the ampere to drop to about 10
> > percent of the ampere-hour of the battery. This is how long your timer
> > is
> > set at.
> >
> > Lets say your batteries are at 50% State of Charge (SOC) and you remove
> > about 100 AH from the battery, and you are charging at 6 amps, this will
> > take about 100 ah / 6 amps = 16.6 hours plus about 10 percent more.
> >
> > If you started at 6 amps, then you have only 14 hours of charge on this
> > battery. I normally charge my T-145's at 35 to 45 amps which takes
> > about
> > hour at 75% SOC. The higher ampere hour battery takes a little more
> > force
> > to rise the voltage to the maximum setting.
> >
> > I test out charging my batteries at a very low ampere rating, and its
> > take
> > for ever to charge it. The voltage will only rise to a certain amount
> > and
> > just sets there.
> >
> > Roland
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Hunter Cook" <[email protected]>
> > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 9:51 AM
> > Subject: [EVDL] Russco confusion
> >
> >
> > > Howdy everybody,
> > >
> > > So I installed my new-to-me Russco SC 18-120 SO and 24 new T105
> > > batteries yesterday. Mostly it went well. But now upon charging I'm a
> > > bit confused. I plugged the pack in around 8pm last night, and it's
> > > still charging now at 10:45am; the shutoff timer hasn't even started.
> > > Isn't 15+ hours a really long time for this? Also, I thought I
> > > understood that the battery current should steadily fall as the
> > > voltage
> > > rises during charging...but last night (when the DC volts showed ~151)
> > > the DC amps were showing ~6, and now (showing 161v) they are around
> > > 10.
> > >
> > > Is this a problem, or am I just paranoid and it's doing what it's
> > > supposed to be doing?
> > >
> > > Hunter
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > For subscription options, see
> > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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Discussion Starter #8
Hi Hunter,

The current should be going full bore until the voltage set point is
reached. Honestly, I'm not sure why the current increased later. Do
the current and voltage control knobs seem to be working right? Have
you double checked the boost transformer wiring?

Tale a look at the voltages on the individual batteries if you
haven't. One or a few of them may be full before the others and
causing trouble. If the voltages are out of whack charge them
individually until the voltages are pretty close after resting for an
hour or so.

As a point of reference for charging time, I've got 16 flooded
batteries (US Batt 8V) with an SC-30. A full charge, not counting the
constant current part takes 4 or 5 hours. Your pack is 50% larger, and
the charger half as fast, so 15 hours is not unreasonable from empty.

Erik



>
> Message: 26
> Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 10:51:29 -0500
> From: Hunter Cook <[email protected]>
> Subject: [EVDL] Russco confusion
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> Howdy everybody,
>
> So I installed my new-to-me Russco SC 18-120 SO and 24 new T105
> batteries yesterday. Mostly it went well. But now upon charging I'm a
> bit confused. I plugged the pack in around 8pm last night, and it's
> still charging now at 10:45am; the shutoff timer hasn't even started.
> Isn't 15+ hours a really long time for this? Also, I thought I
> understood that the battery current should steadily fall as the voltage
> rises during charging...but last night (when the DC volts showed ~151)
> the DC amps were showing ~6, and now (showing 161v) they are around 10.
>
> Is this a problem, or am I just paranoid and it's doing what it's
> supposed to be doing?
>
> Hunter
>

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Discussion Starter #9
Well, the light finally started flashing a few minutes ago, so the
timer's going. Volts reads ~174. The weird thing is the DC amps; I'm
starting to think Evan's right and that ammeter is just broken. They are
showing the highest now they ever have, at about 13-14. And this while
the AC amps are dropping, currently around 3A. The math doesn't work out
at all on that of course...

Seems strange to me.

Hunter

Sarah & Erik wrote:
> Hi Hunter,
>
> The current should be going full bore until the voltage set point is
> reached. Honestly, I'm not sure why the current increased later. Do
> the current and voltage control knobs seem to be working right? Have
> you double checked the boost transformer wiring?
>
> Tale a look at the voltages on the individual batteries if you
> haven't. One or a few of them may be full before the others and
> causing trouble. If the voltages are out of whack charge them
> individually until the voltages are pretty close after resting for an
> hour or so.
>
> As a point of reference for charging time, I've got 16 flooded
> batteries (US Batt 8V) with an SC-30. A full charge, not counting the
> constant current part takes 4 or 5 hours. Your pack is 50% larger, and
> the charger half as fast, so 15 hours is not unreasonable from empty.
>
> Erik
>
>
>
> >
> > Message: 26
> > Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 10:51:29 -0500
> > From: Hunter Cook <[email protected]>
> > Subject: [EVDL] Russco confusion
> > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
> > Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> > Content-Type: text/plain
> >
> > Howdy everybody,
> >
> > So I installed my new-to-me Russco SC 18-120 SO and 24 new T105
> > batteries yesterday. Mostly it went well. But now upon charging I'm a
> > bit confused. I plugged the pack in around 8pm last night, and it's
> > still charging now at 10:45am; the shutoff timer hasn't even started.
> > Isn't 15+ hours a really long time for this? Also, I thought I
> > understood that the battery current should steadily fall as the voltage
> > rises during charging...but last night (when the DC volts showed ~151)
> > the DC amps were showing ~6, and now (showing 161v) they are around 10.
> >
> > Is this a problem, or am I just paranoid and it's doing what it's
> > supposed to be doing?
> >
> > Hunter
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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Discussion Starter #10
Hunter Cook wrote:

> Well, the light finally started flashing a few minutes ago,
> so the timer's going. Volts reads ~174. The weird thing is
> the DC amps; I'm starting to think Evan's right and that
> ammeter is just broken. They are showing the highest now they
> ever have, at about 13-14. And this while the AC amps are
> dropping, currently around 3A. The math doesn't work out at
> all on that of course...

Sounds like the ammeter may be indicating the right magnitude, but you've dropped a decimal place somewhere. 3A @ 120VAC would be pretty darn close to 1.3-1.4A @ 174VDC out once you take efficiency into account.

Cheers,

Roger.

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Discussion Starter #11
Just a silly question, but...
Is the amp meter digital? Could it be reading 1.1 instead of 11?

Bill Dennis

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Discussion Starter #12
Hey, no kidding! A bit embarrassing that got by me, but thanks for the
heads up.

Roger Stockton wrote:
> Hunter Cook wrote:
>
> > Well, the light finally started flashing a few minutes ago,
> > so the timer's going. Volts reads ~174. The weird thing is
> > the DC amps; I'm starting to think Evan's right and that
> > ammeter is just broken. They are showing the highest now they
> > ever have, at about 13-14. And this while the AC amps are
> > dropping, currently around 3A. The math doesn't work out at
> > all on that of course...
>
> Sounds like the ammeter may be indicating the right magnitude, but you've dropped a decimal place somewhere. 3A @ 120VAC would be pretty darn close to 1.3-1.4A @ 174VDC out once you take efficiency into account.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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Discussion Starter #13
A 144v pack should charge at 172.8 to 180vdc. Lawrence Rhodes.......

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Discussion Starter #14
Depends on the battery type.
Yellow tops can be charged at up to 15.8V as I learned
from an AC Propulsion implementation of BMS, so then
the pack voltage can go over 190V.

Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 3:37 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Russco confusion

A 144v pack should charge at 172.8 to 180vdc. Lawrence Rhodes.......

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Discussion Starter #15
Hunter, how are your dip switches set up? I think what may be happening is
an equalization charge. Another possibility is that your voltage is set too
high. I's try to turn it down a little, and see what happens. I have had the
Russco on 20 T-105's.

Joseph H. Strubhar

Web: www.gremcoinc.com

E-mail: [email protected]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hunter Cook" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 8:51 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Russco confusion


> Howdy everybody,
>
> So I installed my new-to-me Russco SC 18-120 SO and 24 new T105
> batteries yesterday. Mostly it went well. But now upon charging I'm a
> bit confused. I plugged the pack in around 8pm last night, and it's
> still charging now at 10:45am; the shutoff timer hasn't even started.
> Isn't 15+ hours a really long time for this? Also, I thought I
> understood that the battery current should steadily fall as the voltage
> rises during charging...but last night (when the DC volts showed ~151)
> the DC amps were showing ~6, and now (showing 161v) they are around 10.
>
> Is this a problem, or am I just paranoid and it's doing what it's
> supposed to be doing?
>
> Hunter
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.17/1103 - Release Date:
> 11/1/2007 6:01 AM
>
>

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Discussion Starter #16
My dip switch is set with switch 3 as the only one in the "on" position.
The manual claims this puts a 1.25 hr timer on. Seems to be working well
now that someone let me in on the fact that the multimeter has been
auto-ranging. The only thing I'm still concerned about is the difference
between the voltage readings I'm seeing in the truck vs. on the charger.

joe wrote:
> Hunter, how are your dip switches set up? I think what may be happening is
> an equalization charge. Another possibility is that your voltage is set too
> high. I's try to turn it down a little, and see what happens. I have had the
> Russco on 20 T-105's.
>
> Joseph H. Strubhar
>
> Web: www.gremcoinc.com
>
> E-mail: [email protected]
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hunter Cook" <[email protected]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 8:51 AM
> Subject: [EVDL] Russco confusion
>
>
> > Howdy everybody,
> >
> > So I installed my new-to-me Russco SC 18-120 SO and 24 new T105
> > batteries yesterday. Mostly it went well. But now upon charging I'm a
> > bit confused. I plugged the pack in around 8pm last night, and it's
> > still charging now at 10:45am; the shutoff timer hasn't even started.
> > Isn't 15+ hours a really long time for this? Also, I thought I
> > understood that the battery current should steadily fall as the voltage
> > rises during charging...but last night (when the DC volts showed ~151)
> > the DC amps were showing ~6, and now (showing 161v) they are around 10.
> >
> > Is this a problem, or am I just paranoid and it's doing what it's
> > supposed to be doing?
> >
> > Hunter
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.17/1103 - Release Date:
> > 11/1/2007 6:01 AM
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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Discussion Starter #17
comcast test?

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Discussion Starter #18
Hey everybody,

Got another T105 (battery vendor actually warranteed it!) and put it in
the pack to make the original 24 (144v) again. Drove home and plugged
in. I had the dials all set the same place they were when I brought the
pack to 178v last time (in 17 hours) and this time it ran somewhere
between 10 and 14 hours before shutting off. I checked on it sometime in
the next few hours, but the voltage was still reading down around 145v
(from within the truck) so I plugged it back in and moved the dials up
some, to where they are all on 90...then I plugged it back in. The
voltage quickly ran up from the mid 140's to the low 160's, then creeped
up to 167v, and stayed there. After running the charger for about 7
hours I unplugged it, since it had been at 167 for a few hours without
moving.

I understand I should be getting this pack into the high 170's, and the
first time I charged the pack I could. Anybody know why I might be
having trouble now?

Thanks

Hunter

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