[EVDL List]

I am having trouble getting my taper lock hub, used to drive the
flywheel, onto the motor shaft with a run out of less than 0.001". Does
anyone have any tips or how-to for making this assembly without any
vibration inducing wobble?

=== Conversion Information *===

*I am converting a '98 Nissan Altima GXE to electric. An ADC FB1-4001A,
double shaft, electric motor will drive the transmission through a
flywheel and clutch. The flywheel, original to the car, will attach to
the 1.125" shaft of the motor through a taper lock bushing and hub that
I've had custom machined a couple of years ago. The space between the
motor and the transmission is made up with a 2.5" aluminum plate that
will be later scribed to the bell housing.

=== Hub Description* ===

*I had a machinist make the hub to fit a Dayton QD Bushing, part number
4JU46. I supplied him red marked drawings based on Chris Simon's hub
design (URL http://www.simonfamily.us/FocusEV/MatingTheMotor.htm). I
also gave the machinist the taper lock bushing, flywheel, and crankshaft
from the Nissan's engine.
Pictures of the Hub assembly can be found at the addresses below.

http://www.bobek.net/ixj/EV/P1010001.JPG

http://www.bobek.net/ixj/EV/P1010003.JPG

http://www.bobek.net/ixj/EV/P1010004.JPG

=== Issue Description ===

I'm working on mating the transmission to the motor so I can align them
using the method described on the Grass Roots EV CD. I'm tightening
down the hub to the shaft on the taper lock bushing, checking the
run-out as I go. Very shortly into the tightening process, my run-out
goes outside of 0.005" and by the end of all the tightening is
approaching or beyond 0.010". When I put the flywheel down on the hub,
this wobble is multiplied out, making the problem worse.

I'm checking the run out using a gauge screwed into a 2x4 that sits
across the adapter plate. The gauge pin is resting on the outside edge
of the hub and I can watch the needle as I turn the hub by hand.
Pictures of my setup are at the addresses below.

http://www.bobek.net/ixj/EV/P1010009.JPG

http://www.bobek.net/ixj/EV/P1010010.JPG

http://www.bobek.net/ixj/EV/P1010011.JPG

Any help would be appreciated. This has been a bit of a long term
project, and I'd like to get going full force on it again. But, I want
to be careful that when its all together, I don't end up with something
sub-par or with a lot of vibration.

Thanks,
Joe

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[EVDL List]

Hello Joseph,

Go back to the machine shop and have the coupler, flywheel, pressure plate
balance as a assembly. I had to do this back in 85, because my flywheel was
a external balance flywheel that is use to balance the engine.

Normally machine shops that can balance drive lines can do this process. My
electric motor shop also does engine and motor balancing.

On a initial installation of a taper lock bushing, it may pull to one side
if the machine surfaces are not polish. Remove the taper lock bushing and
rotate one turn and check it again. Sometimes it will come in with the
specs. Mark the bushing and coupler so it is in the same reference.

Also have the machinists check the run out of the surface of the motor
coupler. The neck of the coupler may have to be reface and then chuck it up
on the neck and reface the face of the coupler. Then install the flywheel
and check it for run out and balance. I had the ring gear remove and they
drill holes in the rear of the with a series of holes to balance the
flywheel.

The thicken edge where the ring gear was install was also remove making this
flywheel the same width as the center of the flywheel.

One more thing, The bolt holes in the bell housing and some flywheels may
have to much play, sometime up to 0.003 inch out. It is best to install
centering pins in the adapter plate like the engine has and also in the
motor coupler. It looks like you has a raise inlet nose section on the
motor coupler. Make sure it inserts into the flywheel as a semi-press fit,
if not then install a guild pin in the motor coupler.

Roland


----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Bobek" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 11:39 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Taper Lock Hub Installation


> I am having trouble getting my taper lock hub, used to drive the
> flywheel, onto the motor shaft with a run out of less than 0.001". Does
> anyone have any tips or how-to for making this assembly without any
> vibration inducing wobble?
>
> === Conversion Information *===
>
> *I am converting a '98 Nissan Altima GXE to electric. An ADC FB1-4001A,
> double shaft, electric motor will drive the transmission through a
> flywheel and clutch. The flywheel, original to the car, will attach to
> the 1.125" shaft of the motor through a taper lock bushing and hub that
> I've had custom machined a couple of years ago. The space between the
> motor and the transmission is made up with a 2.5" aluminum plate that
> will be later scribed to the bell housing.
>
> === Hub Description* ===
>
> *I had a machinist make the hub to fit a Dayton QD Bushing, part number
> 4JU46. I supplied him red marked drawings based on Chris Simon's hub
> design (URL http://www.simonfamily.us/FocusEV/MatingTheMotor.htm). I
> also gave the machinist the taper lock bushing, flywheel, and crankshaft
> from the Nissan's engine.
> Pictures of the Hub assembly can be found at the addresses below.
>
> http://www.bobek.net/ixj/EV/P1010001.JPG
>
> http://www.bobek.net/ixj/EV/P1010003.JPG
>
> http://www.bobek.net/ixj/EV/P1010004.JPG
>
> === Issue Description ===
>
> I'm working on mating the transmission to the motor so I can align them
> using the method described on the Grass Roots EV CD. I'm tightening
> down the hub to the shaft on the taper lock bushing, checking the
> run-out as I go. Very shortly into the tightening process, my run-out
> goes outside of 0.005" and by the end of all the tightening is
> approaching or beyond 0.010". When I put the flywheel down on the hub,
> this wobble is multiplied out, making the problem worse.
>
> I'm checking the run out using a gauge screwed into a 2x4 that sits
> across the adapter plate. The gauge pin is resting on the outside edge
> of the hub and I can watch the needle as I turn the hub by hand.
> Pictures of my setup are at the addresses below.
>
> http://www.bobek.net/ixj/EV/P1010009.JPG
>
> http://www.bobek.net/ixj/EV/P1010010.JPG
>
> http://www.bobek.net/ixj/EV/P1010011.JPG
>
> Any help would be appreciated. This has been a bit of a long term
> project, and I'd like to get going full force on it again. But, I want
> to be careful that when its all together, I don't end up with something
> sub-par or with a lot of vibration.
>
> Thanks,
> Joe
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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>

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[EVDL List]

Hi Joe;

I had a "Run isnout" with my taper lock that looks like yur pix one;
Vibrated like Hell at 1st gear! Took the motor ARMATURE to my machine shop
guy . He set it up in the lathe, toh off about a 'thou, or trewing cut on
the surface of the Tape's face. Reassembles and HAH! That did it! But I
think you DO get a variation in the true-nes of the tapers surfaces when ya
take them apart? yeah? I KNOW that you HAVE to take the damn thing apart to
get the motor together? Ya takes your chances! But what the Hell are you
gunna do? Maybe Wayne, of EV blue fame might have some imput on this one?

TMNV on this one!?

Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Bobek" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 2:39 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Taper Lock Hub Installation


>I am having trouble getting my taper lock hub, used to drive the
> flywheel, onto the motor shaft with a run out of less than 0.001". Does
> anyone have any tips or how-to for making this assembly without any
> vibration inducing wobble?
>
> === Conversion Information *===
>
> *I am converting a '98 Nissan Altima GXE to electric. An ADC FB1-4001A,
> double shaft, electric motor will drive the transmission through a
> flywheel and clutch. The flywheel, original to the car, will attach to
> the 1.125" shaft of the motor through a taper lock bushing and hub that
> I've had custom machined a couple of years ago. The space between the
> motor and the transmission is made up with a 2.5" aluminum plate that
> will be later scribed to the bell housing.
>
> === Hub Description* ===
>
> *I had a machinist make the hub to fit a Dayton QD Bushing, part number
> 4JU46. I supplied him red marked drawings based on Chris Simon's hub
> design (URL http://www.simonfamily.us/FocusEV/MatingTheMotor.htm). I
> also gave the machinist the taper lock bushing, flywheel, and crankshaft
> from the Nissan's engine.
> Pictures of the Hub assembly can be found at the addresses below.
>
> http://www.bobek.net/ixj/EV/P1010001.JPG
>
> http://www.bobek.net/ixj/EV/P1010003.JPG
>
> http://www.bobek.net/ixj/EV/P1010004.JPG
>
> === Issue Description ===
>
> I'm working on mating the transmission to the motor so I can align them
> using the method described on the Grass Roots EV CD. I'm tightening
> down the hub to the shaft on the taper lock bushing, checking the
> run-out as I go. Very shortly into the tightening process, my run-out
> goes outside of 0.005" and by the end of all the tightening is
> approaching or beyond 0.010". When I put the flywheel down on the hub,
> this wobble is multiplied out, making the problem worse.
>
> I'm checking the run out using a gauge screwed into a 2x4 that sits
> across the adapter plate. The gauge pin is resting on the outside edge
> of the hub and I can watch the needle as I turn the hub by hand.
> Pictures of my setup are at the addresses below.
>
> http://www.bobek.net/ixj/EV/P1010009.JPG
>
> http://www.bobek.net/ixj/EV/P1010010.JPG
>
> http://www.bobek.net/ixj/EV/P1010011.JPG
>
> Any help would be appreciated. This has been a bit of a long term
> project, and I'd like to get going full force on it again. But, I want
> to be careful that when its all together, I don't end up with something
> sub-par or with a lot of vibration.
>
> Thanks,
> Joe
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to xxx[email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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[EVDL List]

Joseph Bobek <[email protected]> wrote:
> I am having trouble getting my taper lock hub, used to drive the
> flywheel, onto the motor shaft with a run out of less than 0.001". Does
> anyone have any tips or how-to for making this assembly without any
> vibration inducing wobble?

Can be tricky, you may need to take it to the machinist and have him
check his work, the face may not be perfectly true. Taperlocks can be
difficult to get right, this is one of the advantages of the EVCC
setscrew method over the Taperlock.

Other option: In the past I've just bought a few pieces of 1/1000th
shim stock and used it to shim between the flywheel and hub until the
flywheel runs out ok. Don't worry about the hub, as long as the
flywheel is flat and balanced it should run smoothly.

-- =

Mark Farver
REVOLT Custom Electric Vehicles
Austin, TX
Parts store now open: http://www.revoltevc.com/

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[EVDL List]

Hi Joseph
.>I am having trouble getting my taper lock hub, used to drive the
flywheel, onto the motor shaft with a run out of less than 0.001". Does
anyone have any tips or how-to for making this assembly without any
vibration inducing wobble?<

I looked at how you used the crank shaft end from the other web site
and this all looked good . I have had good results with up and down
wobble of up to .003 . The in and out from measuring the face of the
fly wheel is the easiest to fix so I don't know how far off you can be
as getting .001 is easy to get with shim stock as Mark said or even
just careful filling . I should say here that The CD on how to make
the adapter plate and other stuff was made over 10 years ago . Its
amid for people who want to do a conversion but don't have a lot of
money tp spend . It can be argued that its best to buy the hub and
plate and be done with it . I still like the challenge of making my
own and as hobbyist the more you do the better you feel about it when
your done . Also the numbers you see on the dial indicator are 2
times the amount that you are out so if you are seeing .006 you are
out .003 ( when the .003 is on the low side then 180 degrees later
its .003 on the high side , the two add to .006 ) . Have you tried
putting it together different ways . If you can get 2 errors to cancel
out , like the fly wheel being out .001 and the shaft being out .001
this could make a .004 error into a .002 . The key can also change
thing , make it work for you , shim it or fill it , which ever way
helps . Then there is that adding washers to balance the fly wheel .
You have to do this with the clutch disk out . I don't know what motor
you have but the 9" with spin about 4000 rpm with just 24v so take
care to have the motor held down and not to spin it to fast . Like
most things the closer to perfect you get , the harder , the more time
consuming , and the less rewarding your efforts receive . Try all
these things and then put it together and you'll probable be surprised
how well it work.

Steve Clunn


--
Tomorrows Ride TODAY !
Visit our shop web page at: www.Greenshedconversions.com

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[EVDL List]

Joe (and All),
My taper lock hub was a royal PITA and is kind of a repressed memory
for me, so I wanted to catch up with the list before posting about
your question, hoping that someone would give you my answer, but
nobody did...
I ended up drilling out the three threaded holes in the bushing, which
are normally used for removal, and added three more threaded holes to
the hub, for a total of six. This allows you to remove the runout that
you will inherently get by not having a bolt on each side of the slit
in the bushing. Have you read the book Convert It by Mike Brown at
Electro Automotive? Although I believe Mike uses six #10 screws and
machines his own bushing AND hub, the off-the-shelf QD bushings with
1/4-20 holes are not designed for the minimal runout that a flywheel
needs. As my repressed memory comes back, I'm thinking the QD bushings
are designed for pulleys and sprockets? Although my truck has a very
large big block Chevy flywheel, I can't imagine how Chris Simon did
not have a wobble when he assembled his hub and bushing with just the
three bolts, per his website that you cited below. Also, as I
tightened the hub to busing bolts, I had the flywheel bolted to the
hub and checked the runout at the very end of the flywheel.
Hope this helps,
BB

Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2010 13:39:27 -0500
From: Joseph Bobek

I am having trouble getting my taper lock hub, used to drive the
flywheel, onto the motor shaft with a run out of less than 0.001". Does
anyone have any tips or how-to for making this assembly without any
vibration inducing wobble?

=== Conversion Information *===

*I am converting a '98 Nissan Altima GXE to electric. An ADC FB1-4001A,
double shaft, electric motor will drive the transmission through a
flywheel and clutch. The flywheel, original to the car, will attach to
the 1.125" shaft of the motor through a taper lock bushing and hub that
I've had custom machined a couple of years ago. The space between the
motor and the transmission is made up with a 2.5" aluminum plate that
will be later scribed to the bell housing.

=== Hub Description* ===

*I had a machinist make the hub to fit a Dayton QD Bushing, part number
4JU46. I supplied him red marked drawings based on Chris Simon's hub
design (URL http://www.simonfamily.us/FocusEV/MatingTheMotor.htm). I
also gave the machinist the taper lock bushing, flywheel, and crankshaft
from the Nissan's engine.
Pictures of the Hub assembly can be found at the addresses below.

http://www.bobek.net/ixj/EV/P1010001.JPG

http://www.bobek.net/ixj/EV/P1010003.JPG

http://www.bobek.net/ixj/EV/P1010004.JPG

=== Issue Description ===

I'm working on mating the transmission to the motor so I can align them
using the method described on the Grass Roots EV CD. I'm tightening
down the hub to the shaft on the taper lock bushing, checking the
run-out as I go. Very shortly into the tightening process, my run-out
goes outside of 0.005" and by the end of all the tightening is
approaching or beyond 0.010". When I put the flywheel down on the hub,
this wobble is multiplied out, making the problem worse.

I'm checking the run out using a gauge screwed into a 2x4 that sits
across the adapter plate. The gauge pin is resting on the outside edge
of the hub and I can watch the needle as I turn the hub by hand.
Pictures of my setup are at the addresses below.

http://www.bobek.net/ixj/EV/P1010009.JPG

http://www.bobek.net/ixj/EV/P1010010.JPG

http://www.bobek.net/ixj/EV/P1010011.JPG

Any help would be appreciated. This has been a bit of a long term
project, and I'd like to get going full force on it again. But, I want
to be careful that when its all together, I don't end up with something
sub-par or with a lot of vibration.

Thanks,
Joe

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[EVDL List]

Joe

With my car the position of the flywheel only affected the the clutch
pedal. Moving the taperlock, and thus the flywheel, up or down on the
motor shaft would affect where the clutch engages. But it was well
within adjustment range and it didn't matter. If you flywheel spins
freely and your clutch operates ok, then you should be good.

The only other problem I could see would be if your flywheel sticks
out too far and causes problems with the transmission input shaft and
the idler bearing. My taperlock was machined to accept a bearing and I
just had to make sure the input shaft was oriented correctly in
relationship to bearing.

Good luck

Dave Cover

Joseph Bobek <[email protected]> wrote:
> Thank you everyone for your help. I eventually got the hub put on with
> less than 0.001" runout. I turned the hub to all the positions until I
> found the sweet spot, but I think ended up being more an issue of
> practice. After several hours or taking it on and off, I got pretty
> good at it.
>
> The last time I got it on, I was within 0.050" of the magic number I
> measured off the block. I don't have a high confidence in the number
> measured because the block was pretty irregular. How strict is this
> specification? Can I be as much as a couple mm off?
>
> I need to order some new flywheel bolts because the machinist didn't
> drill the same hole size as the crank shaft, so I might go ahead and
> order some shim stock just in case. Something like the URL below.
>
> http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/Slotted-Shim-2NZJ9
>
> The flywheel bolts I have don't have enough thread to effectively
> tighten down on the flywheel, so I see a lot of run out on the
> flywheel. I'm hoping that will be resolved when I can torque it down,
> but I'll have the shims just in case.
>
> Thanks again,
> Joe
>
> On 09/18/2010 01:39 PM, Joseph Bobek wrote:
>> I am having trouble getting my taper lock hub, used to drive the
>> flywheel, onto the motor shaft with a run out of less than 0.001". Do=
es
>> anyone have any tips or how-to for making this assembly without any
>> vibration inducing wobble?
>>
>> =3D=3D=3D Conversion Information *=3D=3D=3D
>>
>> *I am converting a '98 Nissan Altima GXE to electric. An ADC FB1-4001=
A,
>> double shaft, electric motor will drive the transmission through a
>> flywheel and clutch. The flywheel, original to the car, will attach to
>> the 1.125" shaft of the motor through a taper lock bushing and hub that
>> I've had custom machined a couple of years ago. The space between the
>> motor and the transmission is made up with a 2.5" aluminum plate that
>> will be later scribed to the bell housing.
>>
>> =3D=3D=3D Hub Description* =3D=3D=3D
>>
>> *I had a machinist make the hub to fit a Dayton QD Bushing, part number
>> 4JU46. I supplied him red marked drawings based on Chris Simon's hub
>> design (URL http://www.simonfamily.us/FocusEV/MatingTheMotor.htm). I
>> also gave the machinist the taper lock bushing, flywheel, and crankshaft
>> from the Nissan's engine.
>> Pictures of the Hub assembly can be found at the addresses below.
>>
>> http://www.bobek.net/ixj/EV/P1010001.JPG
>>
>> http://www.bobek.net/ixj/EV/P1010003.JPG
>>
>> http://www.bobek.net/ixj/EV/P1010004.JPG
>>
>> =3D=3D=3D Issue Description =3D=3D=3D
>>
>> I'm working on mating the transmission to the motor so I can align them
>> using the method described on the Grass Roots EV CD. I'm tightening
>> down the hub to the shaft on the taper lock bushing, checking the
>> run-out as I go. Very shortly into the tightening process, my run-out
>> goes outside of 0.005" and by the end of all the tightening is
>> approaching or beyond 0.010". When I put the flywheel down on the hub,
>> this wobble is multiplied out, making the problem worse.
>>
>> I'm checking the run out using a gauge screwed into a 2x4 that sits
>> across the adapter plate. The gauge pin is resting on the outside edge
>> of the hub and I can watch the needle as I turn the hub by hand.
>> Pictures of my setup are at the addresses below.
>>
>> http://www.bobek.net/ixj/EV/P1010009.JPG
>>
>> http://www.bobek.net/ixj/EV/P1010010.JPG
>>
>> http://www.bobek.net/ixj/EV/P1010011.JPG
>>
>> Any help would be appreciated. This has been a bit of a long term
>> project, and I'd like to get going full force on it again. But, I want
>> to be careful that when its all together, I don't end up with something
>> sub-par or with a lot of vibration.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Joe
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
>> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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-- =

http://www.evalbum.com/2149

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[EVDL List]

Joseph Bobek wrote:

> Thank you everyone for your help. I eventually got the hub put on
> with
> less than 0.001" runout. I turned the hub to all the positions
> until I
> found the sweet spot, but I think ended up being more an issue of
> practice. After several hours or taking it on and off, I got pretty
> good at it.
>
> The last time I got it on, I was within 0.050" of the magic number I
> measured off the block. I don't have a high confidence in the number
> measured because the block was pretty irregular. How strict is this
> specification? Can I be as much as a couple mm off?
>
> I need to order some new flywheel bolts because the machinist didn't
> drill the same hole size as the crank shaft, so I might go ahead and
> order some shim stock just in case. Something like the URL below.
>
> http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/Slotted-Shim-2NZJ9
>
> The flywheel bolts I have don't have enough thread to effectively
> tighten down on the flywheel, so I see a lot of run out on the
> flywheel. I'm hoping that will be resolved when I can torque it down,
> but I'll have the shims just in case.
>
> Thanks again,
> Joe
>
>

Hi Joe, I haven't been following this thread so don't shoot me down
if this has already been discussed...

Have you considered mounting the flywheel with the TLH to a piece of
stock bar (the same size as the motor shaft, obviously) and mounting
the bar in a lathe chuck and turning it down to get rid of the run
out? Just make sure you disassemble-reassemble the TLH and flywheel
in the same relative position.

Regards, Martin Winlow
Herts, UK
http://www.evalbum.com/2092
www.winlow.co.uk



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[EVDL List]

I agree with Martin. Also ck for burrs and nicks; and chamfer the edges.
Sometimes too tight of a key will jack the bushing out of position. Ck
that the bushing isn't bottoming out in its' hole.
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