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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
It's tax time again! Since I finished the conversion of my 2002 Ford Focus in 2010, I asked my tax filing professional to investigate possible tax credit/deductions. He did research, filed various additional forms, and calculated our return with all that in mind.

The return was filed electronically.

However, the feds kicked the return back, saying the conversion donor was too old, at 2002.

Any thoughts, or other advice, from folks on the list who've successfully incorporated their conversions into the US tax return?

Thanks,
Josh

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
As far as I know the age of the donor doesn't impact the tax credit, nor
should it. I filed successfully with a healthy rebate from my '64 Spitfire
conversion last year. I filed electronically, but the forms may have
changed so there's not much I can do to help.

I'd make sure that you didn't confuse the year of the donor for the year of
the conversion.

-Dan

<[email protected]> wrote:

> It's tax time again! Since I finished the conversion of my 2002 Ford Focus
> in 2010, I asked my tax filing professional to investigate possible tax
> credit/deductions. He did research, filed various additional forms, and
> calculated our return with all that in mind.
>
> The return was filed electronically.
>
> However, the feds kicked the return back, saying the conversion donor was
> too old, at 2002.
>
> Any thoughts, or other advice, from folks on the list who've successfully
> incorporated their conversions into the US tax return?
>
> Thanks,
> Josh
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
[email protected] wrote:
> conversion of my 2002 Ford Focus in 2010... my tax filing
> professional... calculated our return... the feds kicked the return
> back, saying the conversion donor was too old, at 2002.

Both my U.S. Electricar and ComutaVan got re-titled after conversion.
That had the side effect of changing the model year to the current year
in which it was re-titled. U.S. Electricar re-titled the 1979 Renault
LeCar as a 1980 Lectric Leopard, and I re-titled my 1980 ComutaVan as a
1992 Assembled (the make) Electric (the model) car, because I got it
from a junkyard with a salvage title, and it needed a new one to be
registered again.

This might work with your Ford Focus.

--
Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I had no problem claiming the credit for my 1977 spider last year.
Requirements may have changed this year.


<[email protected]> wrote:
> It's tax time again! Since I finished the conversion of my 2002 Ford F=
ocus in 2010, I asked my tax filing professional to investigate possible ta=
x credit/deductions. He did research, filed various additional forms, an=
d calculated our return with all that in mind.
>
> The return was filed electronically.
>
> However, the feds kicked the return back, saying the conversion donor was=
too old, at 2002.
>
> Any thoughts, or other advice, from folks on the list who've successfully=
incorporated their conversions into the US tax return?
>
> Thanks,
> Josh
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



-- =

www.electric-lemon.com

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
If you look at the instruction sheet for Form 9010 - Alternative Motor
Vehicle Credit, it states a vehicle that is a converted place in service
after February 17, 2009 meets certain additional requirements.

Any year vehicle that is CONVERTED after the above date meets these
conditions, it does not state NEW.

A advanced lean burn technology vehicle must be a new vehicle after the
above date.

A Qualified hybrid vehicles must be new during the years from 2008 to 2010
which are listed in the instruction sheet.

A Qualified plug-in electric drive motor vehicle that is converted in put in
service after February 17, 2009 qualifies for this credit.

My old batteries were transfer into a 1992 pickup, plus a use controller did
qualified for this credit when put in service in 2010.

Make sure when you fill out the form 8910 On line one, you can put any year
date vehicle you want.

On line two you put in the date the vehicle was put in service which should
be after February 17, 2009. Lets say it took you five years to build your
EV testing and testing out the drive train, making modifications and more
testing, then its up to you when you think its ready for service.

You then fill in Line 4 to 10. Note that line 8 states plug-in CONVERSION
credit. This line does not referred to the NEW Qualified factory built
vehicles that are listed in the instruction sheet for years 2008 to 2010 in
the 2009 IRS forms. Later forms may have new dates added.

Roland








----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tax credits for home conversions?


> [email protected] wrote:
> > conversion of my 2002 Ford Focus in 2010... my tax filing
> > professional... calculated our return... the feds kicked the return
> > back, saying the conversion donor was too old, at 2002.
>
> Both my U.S. Electricar and ComutaVan got re-titled after conversion.
> That had the side effect of changing the model year to the current year
> in which it was re-titled. U.S. Electricar re-titled the 1979 Renault
> LeCar as a 1980 Lectric Leopard, and I re-titled my 1980 ComutaVan as a
> 1992 Assembled (the make) Electric (the model) car, because I got it
> from a junkyard with a salvage title, and it needed a new one to be
> registered again.
>
> This might work with your Ford Focus.
>
> --
> Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
> Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
> leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hi Josh,

While I have not done the IRS paperwork, I think my question to the
IRS would be what constitutes "too old" and **where** is it documented?

Charities will not accept a donor vehicle that is greater than 10
years old. So if a 2002 is not too old for a charity, how come it's
too old for a conversion????

Mike Brown in Convert It suggests not doing a conversion on vehicles
greater than 10 years old. What basis is the IRS using for its
vehicle age limit?

(Maybe they want you to use a 2012 model year vehicle instead...)

Peter

[email protected] wrote:

> It's tax time again! Since I finished the conversion of my 2002
> Ford Focus in 2010, I asked my tax filing professional to
> investigate possible tax credit/deductions. He did research, filed
> various additional forms, and calculated our return with all that in
> mind.
>
> The return was filed electronically.
>
> However, the feds kicked the return back, saying the conversion
> donor was too old, at 2002.
>
> Any thoughts, or other advice, from folks on the list who've
> successfully incorporated their conversions into the US tax return?
>
> Thanks,
> Josh
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
<[email protected]> wrote:

> It's tax time again! Since I finished the conversion of my 2002 Ford Focus
> in 2010, I asked my tax filing professional to investigate possible tax
> credit/deductions. He did research, filed various additional forms, and
> calculated our return with all that in mind.
>
> The return was filed electronically.
>
> However, the feds kicked the return back, saying the conversion donor was
> too old, at 2002.
>

A few things about dealing with the IRS. First, e-filing is a toy. Its
sole purpose is to save money by reducing workload on IRS staff, by
automating and trapping COMMON errors, particularly data entry errors
(typos). That goal is served by rejecting returns which are entirely legal,
but which have oddball numbers which resemble errors. So:

* The system could reject a legal return which is a "corner case". File on
paper.

* It could accept a return which is wrong/illegal. The filer goes "Hey, it
accepted it" and then they get the nasty letter demanding interest and
penalties.

IRS waives penalties and interest if they owe you money. That's a perc for
people who are owed refunds. However, IRS can surprise you and release your
claimed refund, then dun you for the disputed amount. BTDT. There is no
harm in paying a disputed amount, it arrests interest/penalties and does not
hurt your appeal rights.

As far as where it's documented, the only place that ultimately matters is
actual tax law proper (on the Web) and case precedent (look to Google
Scholar if you need to deep drill in that). J.K. Lasser's and the IRS
website will guide you there.

Some people get scared by IRS looking at their taxes. The answer is simple:
Be in the right, know why you're in the right, and be ready to explain that
if IRS calls. IRS has a funny way of talking, like a bad forum poster: They
open with "We are right you are wrong", as an intimidation ploy. They
expect you to politely disagree, and that is TOTALLY COOL. They don't
mind. Actually most people I've talked to are fairly nice, and they'll go
the extra mile when you treat them like "smart geeks who work for the
Machine" instead of "the Machine". If you're one of those "intimidated by
authority" types, get over it! LOL!

They don't know your case. Nor do they know the law 100%. You may need to
explain it, and they will go confirm with their people.

It's like this all the way up, BTDT. If an audit goes against you, they'll
explain how to sue them. Sue them, definitely. No downside, and you get to
talk to a smarter tax lawyer yet, and then you settle with them. Going to
court is like nukes - nobody really wants that, but it sure gets people
talking!

Robert
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I had the same problem trying to e-file via turbotax. I just used the
"print and mail" option instead. I intend to drop the forms in the
mail this week. I hope everything proceeds smoothly from there. I'm no
tax expert, but I'm assuming that since this is probably not a
terribly common credit, the coding in the electronic version of form
8910 just has a bug in it that won't allow certain years in that
field. (I guess it's unfortunate that that same form is also used for
other vehicle credits besides conversions...) I find nothing in the
instructions that says putting the actual year model of the vehicle is
incorrect. (I don't believe registering my conversion changed its
effective year model. I have a 1996 Dodge Dakota I just finished last
year.)

Good luck!
Philip


<[email protected]> wrote:
> It's tax time again! Since I finished the conversion of my 2002 Ford F=
ocus in 2010, I asked my tax filing professional to investigate possible ta=
x credit/deductions. He did research, filed various additional forms, an=
d calculated our return with all that in mind.
>
> The return was filed electronically.
>
> However, the feds kicked the return back, saying the conversion donor was=
too old, at 2002.
>
> Any thoughts, or other advice, from folks on the list who've successfully=
incorporated their conversions into the US tax return?
>
> Thanks,
> Josh
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Josh and All,
As others have said, I also took the credit in '02 for my '89 truck,
which had been retitled with the same year, but the fuel type was
changed to electric. Form 8910 as I recall.
Hope this helps...
-- =

Suck Amps,
Dave (Battery Boy) Hawkins
Check out our website!
http://bbevs.com/

> Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 08:32:09 -0800 (PST)
> From: josh
>
> It's tax time again! Since I finished the conversion of my 2002 Ford F=
ocus in 2010, I asked my tax filing professional to investigate possible ta=
x credit/deductions. He did research, filed various additional forms, an=
d calculated our return with all that in mind.
>
> The return was filed electronically.
>
> However, the feds kicked the return back, saying the conversion donor was=
too old, at 2002.
>
> Any thoughts, or other advice, from folks on the list who've successfully=
incorporated their conversions into the US tax return?
>
> Thanks,
> Josh

_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Hi Josh,

I filed this year and had the same problem. Apparently, there is a bug in the IRS e-file checking software. TurboTax suggested I file on paper, which I did.

I checked the IRS website and closely read the Form 8910 instructions. There is no mention of any age restriction on a converted vehicle. There are two forms for EV credits this year. Use 8910 for conversions. Box 1 is NO, Box 2 is YES, fill in 2A and 2B and Part III and Part IV (skip Part II and question 2C).

I have not gotten my refund yet, but I don't expect any problems.

Good luck,
Richard

> It's tax time again! Since I finished the conversion of my 2002
> Ford Focus in 2010, I asked my tax filing professional to
> investigate possible tax credit/deductions. He did research, filed
> various additional forms, and calculated our return with all that in
> mind.
>
> The return was filed electronically.
>
> However, the feds kicked the return back, saying the conversion
> donor was too old, at 2002.
>
> Any thoughts, or other advice, from folks on the list who've
> successfully incorporated their conversions into the US tax return?
>
> Thanks,
> Josh
>

Richard Hamje
Portland, OR
[email protected]
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