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Discussion Starter #1
I just read this in Travel and Leisure Magazine. Forgive my reposting if =

it's already been mentioned on the EVDL.

"In August, Tesla and Hyatt Hotels announced a partnership (Tesla =

investor Nicholas Pritzker, nephew of Hyatt=92s founder, bought one of the =

company=92s first cars). Hyatt plans to install chargers in its hotels =

that will take a car to full charge in 3=BD hours or to a half-charge in =

1=BD hours. The company is basically saying, Come into Hyatt for lunch, =

plug in, and leave with a refilled "gas tank" that=92ll take you another =

100 miles. Stay overnight, and you=92ll have a completely refilled battery."

Bill Dennis

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Discussion Starter #3
storm connors wrote:
> What kind of plug will they use?
> storm
>
>
Looks like it will be the same charging stations that come with the
Tesla, that Tesla owners install in their garages.

>From
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/08/30/BUKERRNPR.DTL

"Tesla received a grant from the California Air Resources Board to
design a recharging station that could be used by multiple makers of
electric cars. Tesla is still devising ways to weatherproof the station,
but the basic model uses what looks like a beefed-up extension cord with
a circular plug. It attaches to the car on the rear post of the driver's
side. Tesla hopes to persuade other automakers to use the same system."



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Discussion Starter #4
storm connors wrote:
> What kind of plug will they use?
> storm
>
>
>
Possible picture of Tesla Charging station:
http://www.teslatalk.com/gallery/20060821/tesla14-l.jpg

Bill Dennis

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Discussion Starter #5
storm connors wrote:
> What kind of plug will they use?
>
>
For those with aging eyesight like mine, the text on the charging
station picture at http://www.teslatalk.com/gallery/20060821/tesla14-l.jpg

"READY", "GROUND FAULT", "SMOKE DETECTED", "CABLE STRAIN", and "CHARGING
FAULT". The label at the bottom of the unit says "ACE Charging Station"
with the number "154" below it. The knob has two positions, "ON" and "OFF".

So this looks to be a custom connector for Tesla vehicles, with special
data and sense wires in addition to the power leads.

Bill Dennis

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Discussion Starter #7
In contrast, from what I've read, the Chevy Volt will ship with a standard 3
prong household plug. No more inductive charging.

-----Original Message-----
We must love standards- we have so many of them. They probably didn't design
it so a standard 3 prong dryer plug would fit in it too. Or how about a
standard 110v plug so a block heater could also be plugged in? You'd think
someone would question the wisdom of yet another unique solution.


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Discussion Starter #9
This comes not from EVWorld but from Drudge:
http://tinyurl.com/2wocpa

--
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http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 147 days 8 hours 47 minutes

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Discussion Starter #12
While I follow your point regarding chainsaw tip guards et. al.
(although it's not like guardless saws aren't still readily available) I
have to wonder how closely you think this relates to the issue at hand.
I don't see any particular loss of functionality in this charging stand
due to its safety features; do you? I mean, it's not like it requires
more effort or attention on the part of the user...in fact, it should be
an improvement vs. using a simple bare-conductor plug. I think you have
an unlike analogy here.

storm connors wrote:
> I had a VW van with a gasoline heater. There were so many safety interlocks
> that it could never be made to produce heat. Rider lawnmowers seem to be
> going in the same direction. Scratch your ass and it shuts down. (Literally)
> Then the tip guard for the chain saw. Course if you want to do anything
> beyond cutting up cordwood, the saw has been rendered useless. Small price
> to pay for making it safer? Why not just remove the chain? Very safe then.
>
> I don't see anything "terrifying" about the existing plugs in the US. The
> standard outlet in London doesn't appear to be any safer.
>
> The GFCI is rarely safer. 2 failures have to occur simultaneously for its
> protection to be lifesaving.
>
> The idea of cost/benefit analysis seems to be missing. Lawyers.
>
> On 10/29/07, Evan Tuer <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > It's not unreasonable for them to try to improve the level of safety
> > of the humble charging lead. Let's face it, the existing plugs you
> > have in the US are pretty terrifying from that point of view, and you
> > also need to take into account someone tripping over the cable or
> > damaging it. Or people using existing outlets that aren't on GFCI
> > circuits. So it seems entirely necessary and responsible to provide a
> > charging station like this.
> >
> > See the info below about the capabilities of their system.
> >
> > At least it's conductive charging, and I'm sure that you'll be able to
> > plug your own vehicle into it, as you can with the Avcon system.
> > Whether you can opportunity charge the Tesla easily is another
> > question.
> >
> > [..]
> > With Charging, It's Safety First
> >
> > We're committed to making sure the charging process and the batteries
> > themselves won't pose a safety issue to you, your passengers, or
> > anyone stumbling around in your garage.
> >
> > For starters, the plug on the charging unit only becomes "live" when
> > it is properly connected to the car and both the charging unit and the
> > car have "talked" and agreed the connection is safe to allow the
> > electricity to flow through it. As a backup, the charging connector is
> > designed such that you cannot touch any metal on the charging pins.
> >
> > The EVSE in your garage protects against many kinds of faults,
> > including ground faults, strain on the cable, and the presence of
> > smoke in your garage. Whenever any fault is detected, charging is
> > stopped and the cable is deactivated.
> >
> > [..]
> >
> > On 10/29/07, storm connors <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > We must love standards- we have so many of them. They probably didn't
> > design
> > > it so a standard 3 prong dryer plug would fit in it too. Or how about a
> > > standard 110v plug so a block heater could also be plugged in? You'd
> > think
> > > someone would question the wisdom of yet another unique solution.
> > >
> > > On 10/27/07, Bill Dennis <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > storm connors wrote:
> > > > > What kind of plug will they use?
> > > > > storm
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > Possible picture of Tesla Charging station:
> > > > http://www.teslatalk.com/gallery/20060821/tesla14-l.jpg
> > > >
> > > > Bill Dennis
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > For subscription options, see
> > > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
> > > http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/
> > > Storm
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > For subscription options, see
> > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
>
>

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Discussion Starter #13
This thread, like the unnecessary re-design of a
perfectly acceptable current transfer device, is a
waste of time. The millions of plugs on dryers/motor
homes/ranges and other electrical devices are fine.
why improve something that does not need it. spend
the money and creativity on building electric
transport.

--- Hunter Cook <[email protected]> wrote:

> While I follow your point regarding chainsaw tip
> guards et. al.
> (although it's not like guardless saws aren't still
> readily available) I
> have to wonder how closely you think this relates to
> the issue at hand.
> I don't see any particular loss of functionality in
> this charging stand
> due to its safety features; do you? I mean, it's not
> like it requires
> more effort or attention on the part of the
> user...in fact, it should be
> an improvement vs. using a simple bare-conductor
> plug. I think you have
> an unlike analogy here.
>
> On Mon, 2007-10-29 at 12:22 -0400, storm connors
> wrote:
> > I had a VW van with a gasoline heater. There were
> so many safety interlocks
> > that it could never be made to produce heat. Rider
> lawnmowers seem to be
> > going in the same direction. Scratch your ass and
> it shuts down. (Literally)
> > Then the tip guard for the chain saw. Course if
> you want to do anything
> > beyond cutting up cordwood, the saw has been
> rendered useless. Small price
> > to pay for making it safer? Why not just remove
> the chain? Very safe then.
> >
> > I don't see anything "terrifying" about the
> existing plugs in the US. The
> > standard outlet in London doesn't appear to be any
> safer.
> >
> > The GFCI is rarely safer. 2 failures have to occur
> simultaneously for its
> > protection to be lifesaving.
> >
> > The idea of cost/benefit analysis seems to be
> missing. Lawyers.
> >
> > On 10/29/07, Evan Tuer <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > It's not unreasonable for them to try to improve
> the level of safety
> > > of the humble charging lead. Let's face it, the
> existing plugs you
> > > have in the US are pretty terrifying from that
> point of view, and you
> > > also need to take into account someone tripping
> over the cable or
> > > damaging it. Or people using existing outlets
> that aren't on GFCI
> > > circuits. So it seems entirely necessary and
> responsible to provide a
> > > charging station like this.
> > >
> > > See the info below about the capabilities of
> their system.
> > >
> > > At least it's conductive charging, and I'm sure
> that you'll be able to
> > > plug your own vehicle into it, as you can with
> the Avcon system.
> > > Whether you can opportunity charge the Tesla
> easily is another
> > > question.
> > >
> > > [..]
> > > With Charging, It's Safety First
> > >
> > > We're committed to making sure the charging
> process and the batteries
> > > themselves won't pose a safety issue to you,
> your passengers, or
> > > anyone stumbling around in your garage.
> > >
> > > For starters, the plug on the charging unit only
> becomes "live" when
> > > it is properly connected to the car and both the
> charging unit and the
> > > car have "talked" and agreed the connection is
> safe to allow the
> > > electricity to flow through it. As a backup, the
> charging connector is
> > > designed such that you cannot touch any metal on
> the charging pins.
> > >
> > > The EVSE in your garage protects against many
> kinds of faults,
> > > including ground faults, strain on the cable,
> and the presence of
> > > smoke in your garage. Whenever any fault is
> detected, charging is
> > > stopped and the cable is deactivated.
> > >
> > > [..]
> > >
> > > On 10/29/07, storm connors
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > We must love standards- we have so many of
> them. They probably didn't
> > > design
> > > > it so a standard 3 prong dryer plug would fit
> in it too. Or how about a
> > > > standard 110v plug so a block heater could
> also be plugged in? You'd
> > > think
> > > > someone would question the wisdom of yet
> another unique solution.
> > > >
> > > > On 10/27/07, Bill Dennis <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > storm connors wrote:
> > > > > > What kind of plug will they use?
> > > > > > storm
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > Possible picture of Tesla Charging station:
> > > > >
>
http://www.teslatalk.com/gallery/20060821/tesla14-l.jpg
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill Dennis
> > > > >
> > > > >
> _______________________________________________
> > > > > For subscription options, see
> > > > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
> > > > http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/
> > > > Storm
> > > >
> _______________________________________________
> > > > For subscription options, see
> > > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > For subscription options, see
> > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


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Discussion Starter #14
keith vansickle wrote:
> This thread, like the unnecessary re-design of a
> perfectly acceptable current transfer device, is a
> waste of time. The millions of plugs on dryers/motor
> homes/ranges and other electrical devices are fine.
> why improve something that does not need it. spend
> the money and creativity on building electric
> transport.

I would think that the NEMA WD 6 document would obviate any need to
redesign electrical interfaces. Non-NEMA interfaces would just slow
acceptance down or lock customers in.

WD 6 is free for download: http://www.nema.org/stds/wd6.cfm

Just my .02. IANAE.

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Discussion Starter #15
storm connors <[email protected]> wrote:

[snip rant about health and safety]

> I don't see anything "terrifying" about the existing plugs in the US. The
> standard outlet in London doesn't appear to be any safer.

It appears that you can touch the live pins of certain US plugs very
easily if you are careless, or a child. Just an observation.

> The GFCI is rarely safer. 2 failures have to occur simultaneously for its
> protection to be lifesaving.

Nonsense. The GFCI can save you in many situations: just one is the
case where the charger cord or plug/socket has been damaged, and you
accidentally touch a live part. It shouldn't be relied upon as the
*sole* means of protection of course.

> The idea of cost/benefit analysis seems to be missing.

The cost/benefit is clear: the first serious accident (someone's
garage burning down, someone's kid being killed) where you can say
"they could have done something to prevent that" will kill the entire
company, and probably take modern EVs with it.

I agree, you can go completely over the top, like GM did, but the
important difference is that Tesla is in the business of selling EVs,
not dissuading people from wanting them.

>
>
> On 10/29/07, Evan Tuer <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > It's not unreasonable for them to try to improve the level of safety
> > of the humble charging lead. Let's face it, the existing plugs you
> > have in the US are pretty terrifying from that point of view, and you
> > also need to take into account someone tripping over the cable or
> > damaging it. Or people using existing outlets that aren't on GFCI
> > circuits. So it seems entirely necessary and responsible to provide a
> > charging station like this.
> >
> > See the info below about the capabilities of their system.
> >
> > At least it's conductive charging, and I'm sure that you'll be able to
> > plug your own vehicle into it, as you can with the Avcon system.
> > Whether you can opportunity charge the Tesla easily is another
> > question.
> >
> > [..]
> > With Charging, It's Safety First
> >
> > We're committed to making sure the charging process and the batteries
> > themselves won't pose a safety issue to you, your passengers, or
> > anyone stumbling around in your garage.
> >
> > For starters, the plug on the charging unit only becomes "live" when
> > it is properly connected to the car and both the charging unit and the
> > car have "talked" and agreed the connection is safe to allow the
> > electricity to flow through it. As a backup, the charging connector is
> > designed such that you cannot touch any metal on the charging pins.
> >
> > The EVSE in your garage protects against many kinds of faults,
> > including ground faults, strain on the cable, and the presence of
> > smoke in your garage. Whenever any fault is detected, charging is
> > stopped and the cable is deactivated.
> >
> > [..]
> >
> > On 10/29/07, storm connors <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > We must love standards- we have so many of them. They probably didn't
> > design
> > > it so a standard 3 prong dryer plug would fit in it too. Or how about a
> > > standard 110v plug so a block heater could also be plugged in? You'd
> > think
> > > someone would question the wisdom of yet another unique solution.
> > >
> > > On 10/27/07, Bill Dennis <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > storm connors wrote:
> > > > > What kind of plug will they use?
> > > > > storm
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > Possible picture of Tesla Charging station:
> > > > http://www.teslatalk.com/gallery/20060821/tesla14-l.jpg
> > > >
> > > > Bill Dennis
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > For subscription options, see
> > > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
> > > http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/
> > > Storm
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > For subscription options, see
> > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
> http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/
> Storm
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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Discussion Starter #16
----- Original Message -----
From: "Evan Tuer" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 4:28 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla and Hyatt


>
storm connors <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> [snip rant about health and safety]
>
>> I don't see anything "terrifying" about the existing plugs in the US. The
>> standard outlet in London doesn't appear to be any safer.

He EVerybody;
> Out of Lerk mode here, Scary US plugs Coming form somebody on the Europe?
> Who ya kidding? 240 in ALL your outlets is scary as hell! A kid get that
> across his fingers, I guess, like a cat, only jumps on a hot stove
> once!?The 120 volt will be a vigerous jolt, 240 would/could KILL you!Not
> meaning to diss Euro power, I like it! Lots of power EVen at 13 amps I
> think somebody stated back in the Old Country.You didn't read this, but I
> charge my Jetta with a 120 volt plug wired for 240 volts, and the usual
> 'stench chords. They don't stench anymore on 240 volts! Of course I have
> marked in English" 240 Volts" Painted the plug red, too. Run my table saw
> an' welder from them , also. 240 volts is great power. I can see why
> folks in OZ and Europe go for it.

I guess we learn early on life's dangers, like look BOTH ways for cars,
don't touch 3rd rails, LOOK all around ya when riding your bike, pedal or
powered. Don't get yur fingers across ANY plug prongs. Don't go swimming IF
you can't swim!!Don't walk on RR trax .Darwin's law, never approved by
Congress, opposite of PROgress.Still carry's on, although we do our damndest
to prevent it! I have to watch my grandkid EVERY second, as he is one and
can self propell(walk) VERY quick, and around electrical stuff as he doesn't
talk YET! Thodse cute little fingers get into EVerything! If he is over I
just unplug the car, hide away the stench cords, power tools, ANYTHING he
can get into!!I'm the safety device here. Time will come when He'll drive
the collection of EV stuff; power wheels, scooters, bikes Go karts, stored
away.

> It appears that you can touch the live pins of certain US plugs very
> easily if you are careless, or a child. Just an observation.

> Yeah, ya can with almost any plug.120 volts here will be safer than 240.

>> The GFCI is rarely safer. 2 failures have to occur simultaneously for its
>> protection to be lifesaving.
>
> Nonsense. The GFCI can save you in many situations: just one is the
> case where the charger cord or plug/socket has been damaged, and you
> accidentally touch a live part. It shouldn't be relied upon as the
> *sole* means of protection of course.

> No, common sence, first.Look FIRST, plug carefully.

>> The idea of cost/benefit analysis seems to be missing.
>
> The cost/benefit is clear: the first serious accident (someone's
> garage burning down, someone's kid being killed) where you can say
> "they could have done something to prevent that" will kill the entire
> company, and probably take modern EVs with it.

> Weeeeeell?? Gas cars have burned up more folks than EV 's EVer will. I
> was just lucky, myself, to played with go karts, lawnmoweres, outboards,
> cleaned parts with gas,in my deformative years I'm sure sparked stuff in
> a fumey area. And got away with it. And think about it? How MANY selfserv
> gas stations are there? Funny we don't have fires all over the place. A
> demented person could spray gas around and light it? Have a cheery
> ,blazing inferno in a twinkling of a lighter! But we know better, fillerup
> and go on our way, although with my EV I fillerup a hellova lot less! Need
> gas for my chainsaw, lief blower, lawnmower for now. Hell it would be
> harder to clean paintbrushes with electricity?

Just for diss-cussion; IF gas cars wre just coming out. Can you
imagine the tizz the safety folks would go into" 300 HP in a single
carriage? Fueling it, it will GO 150 mph, with VERY flamible gas?WHO could
be trusted to operate it safely, carrying GALLONS of this deadly mix?Who
would regulatre them, for safety's sake?Why would licence/ train operators?
WHERE could you run them safely??Nobody would insure them, too dangerous! No
worry, buy Streetcar Co. stock, folks will ALWAYS have to ride, right?This
was a fun argument 100 years ago when streetcar lines were built as fast as
investors could be lured out of their savings.

> I agree, you can go completely over the top, like GM did, but the
> important difference is that Tesla is in the business of selling EVs,
> not dissuading people from wanting them.

> IF they make a sensible plug that we can BUY for less than a mortgage
> payment?They, Tesla, would set OUR standard, as I figure I'll see Teslas
> on the road in MY lifetime?They should pop up on the Gold Coast of CT, NYC
> and the Hamptons on Wrong Island. Where people have more money than they
> should.

Seeya

Bob
>>

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Discussion Starter #17
Bob Rice <[email protected]> wrote:

> >> I don't see anything "terrifying" about the existing plugs in the US. The
> >> standard outlet in London doesn't appear to be any safer.
>
> He EVerybody;
> > Out of Lerk mode here, Scary US plugs Coming form somebody on the Europe?
> > Who ya kidding? 240 in ALL your outlets is scary as hell! A kid get that
> > across his fingers, I guess, like a cat, only jumps on a hot stove
> > once!?The 120 volt will be a vigerous jolt, 240 would/could KILL you!Not
> > meaning to diss Euro power, I like it!

It just isn't an issue Bob; firstly you can't touch live parts. Even
if you can, almost all sockets (certainly all outside ones) are on
RCDs (GFCIs). Because the voltage is higher, you *have* to have more
respect for it.

Anyway, we're talking about the Tesla's garage charger, which is 240V
in any case.

> > Yeah, ya can with almost any plug.120 volts here will be safer than 240.

The UK and Euro-Schucko sockets are shuttered and the plugs have
touch-proof pins. So you really can't touch the live bits, even if
you try quite hard. That's the point, and that's why it's perfectly
safe at 230V.

> >> The idea of cost/benefit analysis seems to be missing.
> >
> > The cost/benefit is clear: the first serious accident (someone's
> > garage burning down, someone's kid being killed) where you can say
> > "they could have done something to prevent that" will kill the entire
> > company, and probably take modern EVs with it.

> > IF they make a sensible plug that we can BUY for less than a mortgage
> > payment?They, Tesla, would set OUR standard, as I figure I'll see Teslas
> > on the road in MY lifetime?

They're supposed to be out in the Spring aren't they? To my mind it's
a sensible plug, even if only for the fact that it forces a proper
electrical installation for charging at the owners home.

It's what, $100 worth of parts for the fancy box with GFCI and bit of
protective circuitry, on a $90,000 car. They'd be mad if they didn't.

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Discussion Starter #18
storm connors wrote:
>> I don't see anything "terrifying" about the existing plugs in the
>> US. The standard outlet in London doesn't appear to be any safer.

Evan Tuer wrote:
> you can touch the live pins of certain US plugs very easily...

Yes; that is a shortcoming, a consequence of continuing to use designs
that are nearly 100 years ago.

The British outlets I've seen are very similar -- except that they
mount them below the surface in a hole deep enough so the mating plug's
body blocks access to the pins as you insert/remove it.

There are US plugs and receptacles built exactly like this; but the
standards don't require them, so most people don't install them. The
bottom line is that the problem isn't considered serious enough to
bother to address.

> The cost/benefit is clear: the first serious accident (someone's
> garage burning down, someone's kid being killed) where you can say
> "they could have done something to prevent that" will kill the entire
> company, and probably take modern EVs with it.

It might; there are product liability lawyers that would no doubt try.
:-( But it is by no means a sure thing. I suppose it's a cost/RISK
analysis that's needed.

Most companies look at what others in related industries have been
doing, and then do something that is at least as good as the "generally
accepted practice". If you're wrong, then everyone else in the industry
must have been wrong, too. This greatly reduces the odds you having to
pay some ruinous penalty from some jury being swayed by crying widows or
maimed children.

For example: Toasters have exposed metal parts, they don't have 3-wire
grounded cords, and there is no interlock to keep you from sticking your
hand inside and getting burned or shocked. Every year, dozens of fires
and shocks are reported. Yet nothing is done about it. There are no
ruinous lawsuits, they don't tighten the standards, and toasters keep
getting built the same old way. Why?

It's because people are used to the situation. Companies building new
toasters just copy what all the previous toaster manufacturers did. If
they're dragged into court, they say, "It's in the standards! They're
all built that way! Everybody knows toasters can be dangerous if used
wrong! How can we be blamed?" And the jury agrees, and finds them innocent.

Charging electric cars is no different from plugging in any other
electrical appliance. People have been doing it forever -- it's nothing
new. Consumers have been using high-power plugs on air conditioners,
boat marinas, RV parks, stoves, dryers, and all sorts of things.

Inexperience people don't know what's been done before, or how it turned
out. Their solutions tend to miss the target -- either far too simple,
or way too complicated. It leads them to invent their own standards,
because they don't know what's already "out there" in the field.

I think this was the case with the GM Magnecharger, and now with the
proposed Tesla standard. Both are overly complicated, expensive and look
naive and inexperienced to anyone outside the company. Neither will set
any kind of long-term standard, because no one will find them worth copying.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

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Discussion Starter #19
Lee sez: To my mind it's
a sensible plug, even if only for the fact that it forces a proper
electrical installation for charging at the owners home.

It's what, $100 worth of parts for the fancy box with GFCI and bit of
protective circuitry, on a $90,000 car. They'd be mad if they didn't.

Then revises it to:
Inexperience people don't know what's been done before, or how it turned
out. Their solutions tend to miss the target -- either far too simple,
or way too complicated. It leads them to invent their own standards,
because they don't know what's already "out there" in the field.

I think this was the case with the GM Magnecharger, and now with the
proposed Tesla standard. Both are overly complicated, expensive and look
naive and inexperienced to anyone outside the company. Neither will set
any kind of long-term standard, because no one will find them worth copying.

Sounds like you sorta agree with me. :)
--
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Discussion Starter #20
storm connors wrote:

> Lee sez: To my mind it's
> a sensible plug, even if only for the fact that it forces a
> proper electrical installation for charging at the owners home.
>
> It's what, $100 worth of parts for the fancy box with GFCI
> and bit of protective circuitry, on a $90,000 car. They'd be
> mad if they didn't.

Actually, you misread. Evan T said the above, and Lee said the rest; no revision or variance in Lee's stance. ;^>

Cheers,

Roger.


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