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Discussion Starter #1
Just took Silent E out for a spin around the block. She's not finished
yet -- needs splashguards, cable conduit, and lots of little things --
but I had reconnected everything and wanted to find any big problems.
(I need to readjust my potbox, because I could never get more than 1/2
acceleration out of it, even with my foot on the floor.)

The big problem was motor stink. It smelled like burned insulation.
(Not that I've smelled that before.) It was strong enough that my wife
noticed it as I pulled into the garage after only one trip around the
cul-de-sac.

This is, essentially, a new motor. Jim rebuilt it months ago, on short
notice, and I just got it back on the road (sorry, Jim. Family stuff
got in the way). Am I burning off lubrication oil, or breaking in
brushes, or actually hurting something?

Thanks,
Jude

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Discussion Starter #2
Are you exceeding the motor voltage rated limits? I had the same symptoms
once, and burned the motor to a crisp before I realized what was going on.

Joseph H. Strubhar

Web: www.gremcoinc.com

E-mail: [email protected]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jude Anthony" <[email protected]>
To: "EVDL new" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 5:09 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Test Drive Motor Stink


> Just took Silent E out for a spin around the block. She's not finished
> yet -- needs splashguards, cable conduit, and lots of little things --
> but I had reconnected everything and wanted to find any big problems.
> (I need to readjust my potbox, because I could never get more than 1/2
> acceleration out of it, even with my foot on the floor.)
>
> The big problem was motor stink. It smelled like burned insulation.
> (Not that I've smelled that before.) It was strong enough that my wife
> noticed it as I pulled into the garage after only one trip around the
> cul-de-sac.
>
> This is, essentially, a new motor. Jim rebuilt it months ago, on short
> notice, and I just got it back on the road (sorry, Jim. Family stuff
> got in the way). Am I burning off lubrication oil, or breaking in
> brushes, or actually hurting something?
>
> Thanks,
> Jude
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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Discussion Starter #3
In a message dated 9/1/2007 7:27:27 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
> Re: [EVDL] Test Drive Motor Stink
> Date:9/1/2007 7:27:27 AM US Mountain Standard Time
> From:[email protected]
> Reply-to:[email protected]
> To:[email protected]
> Received from Internet:
>
>
>
> Are you exceeding the motor voltage rated limits? I had the same symptoms
> once, and burned the motor to a crisp before I realized what was going on.
>
> Joseph H. Strubhar
> **How much open circuit voltage do you have on your vech?Joseph I have a
> 24/36 volt forklift motor that sees well over 220 volts from my 360 volt pack at
> near 5000 rpm with as much as 1800 motor amps.It went from 108F last night
> to 124F in 4 qt.mile passes in 105F ambient at the end of the night.The comm
> is a golden brown this morning.Maybe its not the motor at all, Jim Husted has
> rebuilt thousands of motors so I would look elsewhere 1st. Dennis Berube
> Web: www.gremcoinc.com
>
> E-mail: [email protected]
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jude Anthony" <[email protected]>
> To: "EVDL new" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 5:09 AM
> Subject: [EVDL] Test Drive Motor Stink
>
>
> >Just took Silent E out for a spin around the block. She's not finished
> >yet -- needs splashguards, cable conduit, and lots of little things --
> >but I had reconnected everything and wanted to find any big problems.
> >(I need to readjust my potbox, because I could never get more than 1/2
> >acceleration out of it, even with my foot on the floor.)
> >
> >The big problem was motor stink. It smelled like burned insulation.
> >(Not that I've smelled that before.) It was strong enough that my wife
> >noticed it as I pulled into the garage after only one trip around the
> >cul-de-sac.
> >
> >This is, essentially, a new motor. Jim rebuilt it months ago, on short
> >notice, and I just got it back on the road (sorry, Jim. Family stuff
> >got in the way). Am I burning off lubrication oil, or breaking in
> >brushes, or actually hurting something?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Jude

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Discussion Starter #4
From: "Jude Anthony" <[email protected]>
> Just took Silent E out for a spin around the block... The big
> problem was motor stink. It smelled like burned insulation.

What gear were you in? Could motor RPM have been so low that it was
drawing excessive current and you weren't spinning the fan fast enough
to get any cooling airflow?

Did you feel the motor when you got back? Was it hot?

A mistake that many first-time EVers make is to drive it like an ICE,
where you shift to keep RPM low. Electric motors work *better* at high
rpm. It lowers their current (more efficient, less heat), and makes
their internal fan work better (more cooling). If you're just driving
around the block, you shouldn't even have gotten out of 2nd gear.

--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

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Discussion Starter #6
Well, Dennis, the motor was an ADC 6.7" , if I recall correctly. It was
originally run at 72 volts, and we revamped the conversion to 120 volts.
Unfortunately, the Cursit 1231 loved the extra voltage and gave it freely to
the motor, which couldn't handle it. Believe me, the motor was toast when we
took it out - as in BLACK windings, not golden brown comms!

Joseph H. Strubhar

Web: www.gremcoinc.com

E-mail: [email protected]
----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 8:33 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Test Drive Motor Stink


> In a message dated 9/1/2007 7:27:27 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
> [email protected] writes:
>> Re: [EVDL] Test Drive Motor Stink
>> Date:9/1/2007 7:27:27 AM US Mountain Standard Time
>> From:[email protected]
>> Reply-to:[email protected]
>> To:[email protected]
>> Received from Internet:
>>
>>
>>
>> Are you exceeding the motor voltage rated limits? I had the same symptoms
>> once, and burned the motor to a crisp before I realized what was going
>> on.
>>
>> Joseph H. Strubhar
>> **How much open circuit voltage do you have on your vech?Joseph I have a
>> 24/36 volt forklift motor that sees well over 220 volts from my 360 volt
>> pack at
>> near 5000 rpm with as much as 1800 motor amps.It went from 108F last
>> night
>> to 124F in 4 qt.mile passes in 105F ambient at the end of the night.The
>> comm
>> is a golden brown this morning.Maybe its not the motor at all, Jim Husted
>> has
>> rebuilt thousands of motors so I would look elsewhere 1st. Dennis
>> Berube
>> Web: www.gremcoinc.com
>>
>> E-mail: [email protected]
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jude Anthony" <[email protected]>
>> To: "EVDL new" <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 5:09 AM
>> Subject: [EVDL] Test Drive Motor Stink
>>
>>
>> >Just took Silent E out for a spin around the block. She's not finished
>> >yet -- needs splashguards, cable conduit, and lots of little things --
>> >but I had reconnected everything and wanted to find any big problems.
>> >(I need to readjust my potbox, because I could never get more than 1/2
>> >acceleration out of it, even with my foot on the floor.)
>> >
>> >The big problem was motor stink. It smelled like burned insulation.
>> >(Not that I've smelled that before.) It was strong enough that my wife
>> >noticed it as I pulled into the garage after only one trip around the
>> >cul-de-sac.
>> >
>> >This is, essentially, a new motor. Jim rebuilt it months ago, on short
>> >notice, and I just got it back on the road (sorry, Jim. Family stuff
>> >got in the way). Am I burning off lubrication oil, or breaking in
>> >brushes, or actually hurting something?
>> >
>> >Thanks,
>> >Jude
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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Discussion Starter #8
In a message dated 9/1/2007 11:05:56 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
> Test Drive Motor Stink
> Date:9/1/2007 11:05:56 PM US Mountain Standard Time
> From:[email protected]
> Reply-to:[email protected]
> To:[email protected]
> Received from Internet:
>
>
>
> Well, Dennis, the motor was an ADC 6.7" , if I recall correctly. It was
> originally run at 72 volts, and we revamped the conversion to 120 volts.
> Unfortunately, the Cursit 1231 loved the extra voltage and gave it freely to
>
> the motor, which couldn't handle it. Believe me, the motor was toast when we
>
> took it out - as in BLACK windings, not golden brown comms!
>
>
If is now a 120 volt conversion I could see the applied voltage NOT 120 but
may well be as low as 60 depending on the pack type,lead acid or it could be
pretty if it were the powerful l23s maybe as hi as 110.Still at these voltages
in a short trip there should not be motor damage.I would think most dc motors
should handle twice the voltage for a short time.Was the timing correct for its
rotation? Is it the field or armature windings that are black?
D.Berube
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Discussion Starter #9
Hey Jude

Well usually a pic or audio helps me determin what
might be going on for people. Maybe someone here can
develope a smell-o-meter 8^)

It would help to know what voltage and current it was
seeing and a pic of the brushes and comm would show if
anything bad is happening.

I had a look at the pics and see it's advanced for
CCWDE so let's make sure you need CCW from the drive
end. I also kevlar banded that comm so it could be
the resin curing (although I baked it at 365 degrees
to set and cure it)(and very little resin actually
remains as it's squeegied off as it's applied).

Anyway keep an eye on it and shoot me a call or pics
and we'll make it right if something's a miss. Other
than the kevlar everythings pretty basic on this motor
so I'm hoping it was just the kevlar or it's resin
curing up.

In general how did it run and sound?

Anyway let's check for proper rotation to brush
advance and just keep me posted.

Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric



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Discussion Starter #10
I replaced it with a ADC 8", which is rated for 120V. I still have the old
motor somewhere (I think), but I'll have to dig it out and look at it again.
As I recall, it was all black (both windings and the comm) - looked like
flashover damage. I don't think the timing was advanced from the factory,
and I'm pretty sure that the previous owner, the guy that originally
converted it, didn't do any mods. This was back before we knew anything
about advancing the brush timing, I believe.

Joseph H. Strubhar

Web: www.gremcoinc.com

E-mail: [email protected]
----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 6:03 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Test Drive Motor Stink


> In a message dated 9/1/2007 11:05:56 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
> [email protected] writes:
>> Test Drive Motor Stink
>> Date:9/1/2007 11:05:56 PM US Mountain Standard Time
>> From:[email protected]
>> Reply-to:[email protected]
>> To:[email protected]
>> Received from Internet:
>>
>>
>>
>> Well, Dennis, the motor was an ADC 6.7" , if I recall correctly. It was
>> originally run at 72 volts, and we revamped the conversion to 120 volts.
>> Unfortunately, the Cursit 1231 loved the extra voltage and gave it freely
>> to
>>
>> the motor, which couldn't handle it. Believe me, the motor was toast when
>> we
>>
>> took it out - as in BLACK windings, not golden brown comms!
>>
>>
> If is now a 120 volt conversion I could see the applied voltage NOT 120
> but
> may well be as low as 60 depending on the pack type,lead acid or it could
> be
> pretty if it were the powerful l23s maybe as hi as 110.Still at these
> voltages
> in a short trip there should not be motor damage.I would think most dc
> motors
> should handle twice the voltage for a short time.Was the timing correct
> for its
> rotation? Is it the field or armature windings that are black?
> D.Berube
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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Discussion Starter #11
Hello again, everybody. I think I got this half-figured out.

Jim Husted wrote:
> Hey Jude
>
Don't make it bad...

Thanks for all the questions. It's an ADC 9", and I'm running it at
144V with a Curtis 1231C. I can't take the endcap off without
disassembling the car; it's just too close to the side of the engine
compartment. I put it up on wheel stands, and used the brakes to
simulate load. It bucked and clicked. It got hot: mostly around the
top two brushes, but the case got warm, too. (We noticed that the
*studs* on those two brushes were loose. We retightened them
wrench-tight, but we were afraid to give it everything we had, in case
we broke something internal.)

Turned out -- of all things -- the accessory battery was bad. I think
the Todd PC-30 DC/DC converter was drawing more and more current as the
pack voltage dropped under load, until finally it just cut out. That
released the contactors, which elminated the motor load, which allowed
the batteries to jump back up to voltage, which reconnected the
contactors... lather, rinse, repeat.

The "motor stink" that smelled like burned insulation was probably
coming from the Todd, which is as close as I can get my head to the
motor. In any case, a new accessory battery fixed both the stink and
the bucking.

My next shot will be the crackling noise I hear when I rev. Since it's
a 9", I'm planning on trying to stay around 4000 RPM. I'm going to
check the actual RPM soon -- I've got a tach sender, but I can't figure
out where to connect it. And I still need a rev limiter.

The noise started around 30MPH in 3rd gear. With a 185/55R15 tire,
that's 876 revolutions per mile, or 26,280 revolutions per hour, or 438
RPM (duh; * 30 / 60 = 1/2). According to the manual, the 3rd gear ratio
is 1.275, and the reduction ratio is 4.428. That makes a total ratio of
5.6457. So the motor should have been turning about 2472.8166 RPM, far
below the limit, and significantly below my target. Wanna check my math?
> Well usually a pic or audio helps me determin what
> might be going on for people. Maybe someone here can
> develop a smell-o-meter 8^)
>
A pic wouldn't show much but the tops of the brush holders. I'm
considering whether I can strap a video camera under the hood, pointed
at the brush window, and tape them when the crackling noise occurs. If
it's arcing, it should be pretty well visible.
> I had a look at the pics and see it's advanced for
> CCWDE so let's make sure you need CCW from the drive
> end.
>
As it's a Honda, the shaft coming out of the tranny runs CCW as you look
at it. We spent a long time looking at it before we adjusted the brushes.


Thanks for all the help. On to the next problem!
Jude

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