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E

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72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Question of the Day...

This Article, and all this talk about manganese.. ?? Is that just a
new better Part of a Lithium battery, the anode or cathode..?
Or some kind of new battery all together. Need to ask this of our
Material Engineers and Chemists out there...

http://www.resourceinvestor.com/News/2011/2/Pages/Quest-for-the-Ultimate-Electric-Storage-Battery.aspx

--
Steven S Lough
President: Seattle EV Associatin
206 524 1351
WEB: www.seattleeva.org

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E

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
The LEAF battery uses manganese in it, as does the Volt. I guess Envia is a
further refinement of that.
http://www.enviasystems.com/
Found some details:
http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2011-01/gm%E2%80%99s-new-battery-chemistry-it%E2%80%99s-already-chevy-volt


Steven Lough wrote:
>
> Question of the Day...
>
> This Article, and all this talk about manganese.. ?? Is that just a
> new better Part of a Lithium battery, the anode or cathode..?
> Or some kind of new battery all together. Need to ask this of our
> Material Engineers and Chemists out there...
>
> http://www.resourceinvestor.com/News/2011/2/Pages/Quest-for-the-Ultimate-Electric-Storage-Battery.aspx
>
> --
> Steven S Lough
> President: Seattle EV Associatin
> 206 524 1351
> WEB: www.seattleeva.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>

--
View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/The-RACE-for-the-ultimate-Storage-Battery-tp3302925p3303009.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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E

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72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Its the cathode material. They use Lithium Manganese Oxide chemistry
instead of the Lithium Iron Phosphate material typical to the current
Thundersy and alike batteries.

AMPhibian wrote:

>
> The LEAF battery uses manganese in it, as does the Volt. I guess
> Envia is a
> further refinement of that.
> http://www.enviasystems.com/
> Found some details:
> http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2011-01/gm%E2%80%99s-new-battery-chemistry-it%E2%80%99s-already-chevy-volt
>
>
> Steven Lough wrote:
>>
>> Question of the Day...
>>
>> This Article, and all this talk about manganese.. ?? Is that
>> just a
>> new better Part of a Lithium battery, the anode or cathode..?
>> Or some kind of new battery all together. Need to ask this of our
>> Material Engineers and Chemists out there...
>>
>> http://www.resourceinvestor.com/News/2011/2/Pages/Quest-for-the-Ultimate-Electric-Storage-Battery.aspx
>>
>> --
>> Steven S Lough
>> President: Seattle EV Associatin
>> 206 524 1351
>> WEB: www.seattleeva.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
>> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/The-RACE-for-the-ultimate-Storage-Battery-tp3302925p3303009.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive
> at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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Roger Heuckeroth
Advanced Carbon Systems
304 Blue Mountain Road
Saugerties, NY 12477
www.advancedcarbonsystems.com
Phone: 845-247-9089
Toll Free: 866-834-5674
Fax: 845-247-0441
[email protected]



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E

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72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
As a chemist working in a minerals-based company, here is my
perspective:

Manganese (Mn) is one of those transition metal elements that can
substitute in the cathode material for the traditional cobalt atom.
It has been used in lithium battery cathodes for some time, but the
Argonne invention is new. LG Chem licensed the invention, as did
Envia. I looked for the patents and Argonne has at least three, so it
is hard to know if LG and Envia licensed the same ones, but they are
probably closely related. I didn't take the time to read the patents,
but their titles are almost the same. The Argonne website says it is
still open to other licensees. Each company probably does something a
bit different with the invention, so each produces a unique cathode
material. I've read that it is debatable whether Envia can survive
just making the cathode material when the big battery makers it is
competing with are integrated across all of the components.

The article in resourceinvestor is more about the supply of the
metallic element manganese made by the electrolytic process being
dominated by China even though they don't have the largest mineral
resources. According to www.mineralzone.com and the USGS, 80% of Mn
mineral resources are in South Africa and the Ukraine . The US has
none that are economical to mine. The largest use for Mn ore is in
steel making and since China is growing so fast in steel, it makes
sense that they need large supplies. But that is mostly the ore, not
the pure metal. The purest, electrolytic form is needed for
batteries, and if China controls that, it is an issue for the rest of
the world. That's been the story with so many things - China makes it
cheaper, so everyone else shuts down their operations. But it is
reassuring that the ores and refined oxides are not controlled by
China, as they are for the rare earth elements.

Sherman Cox
Allentown, PA

AMPhibian wrote:

>
> The LEAF battery uses manganese in it, as does the Volt. I guess
> Envia is a
> further refinement of that.
> http://www.enviasystems.com/
> Found some details:
> http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2011-01/gm%E2%80%99s-new-battery-chemistry-it%E2%80%99s-already-chevy-volt
>
>
> Steven Lough wrote:
>>
>> Question of the Day...
>>
>> This Article, and all this talk about manganese.. ?? Is that
>> just a
>> new better Part of a Lithium battery, the anode or cathode..?
>> Or some kind of new battery all together. Need to ask this of our
>> Material Engineers and Chemists out there...
>>
>> http://www.resourceinvestor.com/News/2011/2/Pages/Quest-for-the-Ultimate-Electric-Storage-Battery.aspx
>>
>> --
>> Steven S Lough
>> President: Seattle EV Associatin
>> 206 524 1351
>> WEB: www.seattleeva.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
>> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/The-RACE-for-the-ultimate-Storage-Battery-tp3302925p3303009.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive
> at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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