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Discussion Starter #1
http://www.motortrend.com/features/editorial/1010_unbolting_the_chevy_volt_t
o_see_how_it_ticks/index.html#ixzz13P3kW52c



Well guess what..after all the "it's a range extender not a hybrid" crap
from GM..the article above states that the gas engine does propel the
Volt..sometimes..



THEN IT IS A HYBRID...





Sincerely;



Douglas A. Stansfield

President

www.TransAtlanticElectricConversions.com

973-875-6276 (office)

973-670-9208 (cell)

973-440-1619 (fax)



ELECTRIC CAR PRODUCERS















-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of R Willis
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 1:10 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] ok you need to see this !



ok i found this and im blown away



http://www.eads.com/eads/int/en/our-company/innovation-at-eads/innovation-ne
ws/Electric-Cri-Airbourne.html





The Cri-Cri is one of the world's smallest piloted aircraft, with a

wingspan of 4.9 metres and a fuselage length of 3.9 metres.

As part of the Cri-Cri testbed's modification for its all-electric

propulsion, lightweight composite structures were introduced to

reduce the airframe's weight in compensation for the Lithium Polymer

batteries' additional weight.





see the video at the bottom





ps: EADS = AIRBUS incase you don't get a connect the dots







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Discussion Starter #2
Douglas A. Stansfield wrote:

> Well guess what..after all the "it's a range extender not a
> hybrid" crap from GM..the article above states that the gas
> engine does propel the Volt..sometimes..
>
> THEN IT IS A HYBRID...

Of course, if you take that stand then you must also declare any EV that *ever* gets used with a ICE-pusher type range extender is a hybrid even when not using the pusher. ;^>

Cheers,

Roger.

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Discussion Starter #3
Douglas A. Stansfield wrote:
>> the article above states that the gas
>> engine does propel the Volt... sometimes...
>> THEN IT IS A HYBRID...

Roger Stockton wrote:
> Of course, if you take that stand then you must also declare any EV that *ever* gets used with a ICE-pusher type range extender is a hybrid even when not using the pusher. ;^>

Or for that matter, every old manual transmission car that you could
leave in gear while you cranked the engine was a hybrid. :)

--
Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen

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Discussion Starter #4
I don't understand this whole thread. When was the volt anything but
a "hybrid". It was a hybrid from the very beginning. Maybe some
marketing shmuck decided to call it "an electric car with gasoline
range extender", but that doesn't change what it is and always has
been... a hybrid.

Now there are parallel and series hybrids. Apparently, GM got clever
and made it a mostly series plug-in hybrid with a parallel mode for
sustained highway speeds. Whatever... still a hybrid.

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Discussion Starter #5
Lee Hart wrote:

> This is editorial hyperbole. In both cases, the battery is an
> integral part of the car. If you removed it, the car won't
> work because the computers won't *let* it work.

Still, I appreciate the point they try to make, even if they do a poor job of it.

I think the point might be better made by stating that removing the ICE from the Volt would merely reduce its range; it would continue to work just fine as a pure EV at speeds up to 100mph and with a range of 40mi. (Yes, you might well have to fool its computers into thinking the ICE is still there, but the point is that the ICE itself is not required for the vehicle to be fully functional.)

I believe that while the Prius may also remain drivable without its ICE, the level of performance is so severely reduced that it becomes a moot point for most people.

(FWIW, I think "range extended EV" is hyperbole for "hybrid", and that the Volt has always been a hybrid (PHEV) by any definition: it has multiple fuel sources (electricity, gas), and (as we now learn) its wheels can be driven directly by either electric or ICE motors. There are some who argue that the Prius is nothing more than a reasonably efficient ICE since its only fuel source is gasoline.)

Cheers,

Roger.

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Discussion Starter #6
The problem is terminology, the volt is a plug-in hybrid and a combination
of series and parallel as the ICE turns a generator/auxilary motor. And the
ICE can also drive the wheels directly so it has a series and a parallel
mode, as well as being a plug-in.
For possible buyers in California it is NOT eligible for the state
rebate of $5,000, and does not qualify to run in the "HOV" lane unless
occupied by two or more. If you want those benefits, buy a Leaf.or a
Tesla...
Regards,
Dennis Miles
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 7:21 PM, Roger Stockton <[email protected]> wrote:

> Lee Hart wrote:
>
> > This is editorial hyperbole. In both cases, the battery is an
> > integral part of the car. If you removed it, the car won't
> > work because the computers won't *let* it work.
>
> Still, I appreciate the point they try to make, even if they do a poor job
> of it.
>
> I think the point might be better made by stating that removing the ICE
> from the Volt would merely reduce its range; it would continue to work just
> fine as a pure EV at speeds up to 100mph and with a range of 40mi. (Yes, you
> might well have to fool its computers into thinking the ICE is still there,
> but the point is that the ICE itself is not required for the vehicle to be
> fully functional.)
>
> I believe that while the Prius may also remain drivable without its ICE,
> the level of performance is so severely reduced that it becomes a moot point
> for most people.
>
> (FWIW, I think "range extended EV" is hyperbole for "hybrid", and that the
> Volt has always been a hybrid (PHEV) by any definition: it has multiple fuel
> sources (electricity, gas), and (as we now learn) its wheels can be driven
> directly by either electric or ICE motors. There are some who argue that
> the Prius is nothing more than a reasonably efficient ICE since its only
> fuel source is gasoline.)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
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>



--
Regards,
*Dennis Lee Miles* (Director) *E.V.T.I. inc*.
*www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM <http://www.e-v-t-i-inc.com/> *(Adviser)*
EVTI-EVAEducation Chapter
*
Phone (813) ID4 - E V T I or (813) 434 - 3884 (I think word phone
numbers can be fun and good mnemonics aid memory.)
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Discussion Starter #7
From: Roger Stockton
> I think the point might be better made by stating that removing the
> ICE from the Volt would merely reduce its range; it would continue
> to work just fine as a pure EV at speeds up to 100mph and with a
> range of 40mi.
>
> I believe that while the Prius may also remain drivable without its
> ICE, the level of performance is so severely reduced that it becomes
> a moot point for most people.

I don't think that's true. Our Prius drives completely normally with the ICE off up to 42 mph. Above that, the ICE has to turn, but it doesn't have to run. For example, it will still do 60 mph even when out of gas. It "freewheels" the ICE to keep the RPM of the electric motors in check.

The difference between the Prius and Volt now appears to be a matter of degree. The Prius EV performance is limited by its small battery pack, and the gearing of its motors. So whatever you classify the Prius as will almost inevitably apply the the Volt.

> (FWIW, I think "range extended EV" is hyperbole for "hybrid", and
> that the Volt has always been a hybrid (PHEV) by any definition.

I agree. I think we are just seeing salesmen making distinctions without a difference, for marketing purposes.


--
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the one who is
doing it. -- Chinese proverb
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart-at-earthlink.net

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Discussion Starter #8
I would like to make a few points:

1. The mechanical path from the ICE to the wheels is the most efficient
path, not subject to the cycle losses of battery charge/discharge, or the
electric motor/contoller loss. So, if you are going to have any ICE
assist, it is best to have as much energy as possible go through a
mechanical path.

2. I have a Hymotion Plug In Prius. There is no provision for switching
to battery only operation. The ICE runs very little if the block heater
has heated up the coolant ahead of using the car. Of course, this adds to
the electric energy bill. The extra lithium battery does several things:
With a little effort and the AC off, I can surpass 100mpg for short trips
under 20 miles. Average MPG is better by about 10 to 15 MPG for my use of
the car which is mixed town and freeway driving. Performance seems
better. I know that when the Hymotion battery boost is depleted, the car
seems sluggish. The cost of the aftermarket plug in option does not
pencil out. I would have to drive my car for 30 years for gas savings to
equal the 11k cost of the battery.

3. The Volt design seems less than optimum. Since it is essentially one
type of a hybrid, it would be better to optimize the hybrid use to extend
battery life by reducing deep discharge cycles. I believe that Toyota has
put more thought into optimization.

I would go with either the Leaf, with a Honda generator in the trunk for
times when I got caught with a low battery and wasn't too far from home.

George Swartz











> From: Roger Stockton
>> I think the point might be better made by stating that removing the
>> ICE from the Volt would merely reduce its range; it would continue
>> to work just fine as a pure EV at speeds up to 100mph and with a
>> range of 40mi.
>>
>> I believe that while the Prius may also remain drivable without its
>> ICE, the level of performance is so severely reduced that it becomes
>> a moot point for most people.
>
> I don't think that's true. Our Prius drives completely normally with the
> ICE off up to 42 mph. Above that, the ICE has to turn, but it doesn't have
> to run. For example, it will still do 60 mph even when out of gas. It
> "freewheels" the ICE to keep the RPM of the electric motors in check.
>
> The difference between the Prius and Volt now appears to be a matter of
> degree. The Prius EV performance is limited by its small battery pack, and
> the gearing of its motors. So whatever you classify the Prius as will
> almost inevitably apply the the Volt.
>
>> (FWIW, I think "range extended EV" is hyperbole for "hybrid", and
>> that the Volt has always been a hybrid (PHEV) by any definition.
>
> I agree. I think we are just seeing salesmen making distinctions without a
> difference, for marketing purposes.
>
>
> --
> Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the one who is
> doing it. -- Chinese proverb
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart-at-earthlink.net
>
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Discussion Starter #9
Lee,

If you short out the Prius Motor (stealth mode) the Pruis will travel up to
52 miles per hour via the Electric motor on model years 2005 to 2009. The
2010 can be retrofitted and made to travel up to 70+ mph in all electric
mode. The Prius EV range can be extended by adding any number of battery
pack kits which tap into the Prius's (hidden up until 2010) EV mode. I have
personally done quite a few of these and installed one yesterday. The key
is that the Prius can outperform the Volt today with these additions.

Lets compare:

Volt Purchase Price: $42,500

EV Range: 40 miles

--------------------------------------------------
Used Prius 2005-2009 (genII) $5500-$13,000

Prius Add on Kit + Install $13,000

EV Range 50+ Miles

Total Prius: $26,000 Worst case.

$16500 savings by getting a Used Prius and adding in a Prius Upgrade Kit

So unless you really want a rehashed Malibu and need that "new car smell"
the wait and get a Volt.....on the other hand, my money is on the Prius with
a proper battery pack added to her to make her into her true potential.

If anyone needs any help with an install for their Prius, I will gladly
help.

As Wayne said in a previous post.....The Volt will end up in the same place
as the EV1 (his words).....I tend to agree with him.... I really believe
this program has been designed to fail.


Sincerely;

Douglas A. Stansfield
President
www.TransAtlanticElectricConversions.com
973-875-6276 (office)
973-670-9208 (cell)
973-440-1619 (fax)

ELECTRIC CAR PRODUCERS






-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Lee Hart
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:12 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] The VOLT IS A HYBRID AFTER ALL......

From: Roger Stockton
> I think the point might be better made by stating that removing the
> ICE from the Volt would merely reduce its range; it would continue
> to work just fine as a pure EV at speeds up to 100mph and with a
> range of 40mi.
>
> I believe that while the Prius may also remain drivable without its
> ICE, the level of performance is so severely reduced that it becomes
> a moot point for most people.

I don't think that's true. Our Prius drives completely normally with the ICE
off up to 42 mph. Above that, the ICE has to turn, but it doesn't have to
run. For example, it will still do 60 mph even when out of gas. It
"freewheels" the ICE to keep the RPM of the electric motors in check.

The difference between the Prius and Volt now appears to be a matter of
degree. The Prius EV performance is limited by its small battery pack, and
the gearing of its motors. So whatever you classify the Prius as will almost
inevitably apply the the Volt.

> (FWIW, I think "range extended EV" is hyperbole for "hybrid", and
> that the Volt has always been a hybrid (PHEV) by any definition.

I agree. I think we are just seeing salesmen making distinctions without a
difference, for marketing purposes.


--
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the one who is
doing it. -- Chinese proverb
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart-at-earthlink.net

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