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Discussion Starter #1
A week ago I received my Think City from Norway. This was one of the
original Thinks and was in the Millennium Dome in the UK on
exhibition for many years and then sold to a private party in Norway
on ebay where a new Saft pack of Nicads was installed (never had a
pack) about a couple years ago. The car only has 1200 miles on it and
after a couple charges here in the US the Actia Energy J71 3.3kw
charger died. I opened it ti find the strangest soot everywhere and
melted parts. I called Think last night and I was told this was not
uncommon and although they have the original replacement I would
prefer not to spend big bucks on another lemon and the Brusas from
Metric Mind are a bit expensive particularly after the money I spent
getting the car here. See pics--


http://web.mac.com/markdutko/iWeb/Site/speed%20sensor.html

Does anyone know of a charger that could work on this pack, The car
has a BMS that talks to the charger and the BMS can be read from the
factory diagnostic tool. I don't think a PFC could be set up to do
the profile for a Nicad but I am open to any suggestions or people
who may have a used Brusa or something. This is a great EV with a
great pack and a part of SF history and I really want to take the
best care in preserving it.

Thanks


Mark




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Discussion Starter #2
<< http://web.mac.com/markdutko/iWeb/Site/speed%20sensor.html
<<
<< Does anyone know of a charger that could work on this pack, The car
<< has a BMS that talks to the charger and the BMS can be read from the
<< factory diagnostic tool. I don't think a PFC could be set up to do
<< the profile for a Nicad but I am open to any suggestions or people
<< who may have a used Brusa or something. This is a great EV with a
<< great pack and a part of SF history and I really want to take the
<< best care in preserving it.

I remember Marc Geller taking us for a ride - cool little car! Now the
questions:
What's the pack size (voltage and amp-hours)?
I think Rich had mentioned using the PFC with NiCds, but what kind of
input would it need to to use the data from the BMS?
Are there any electronics whizzes on the list who could troubleshoot
your dead charger for you?
Seems repair (and upgrades) might be cheaper than buying another one
that might not be as good a match to the current setup.

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Discussion Starter #4
19 SM5-100 MRE, 6 volt. According to Think the issue is not uncommon
and I was told it could not be repaired, the bms connection may not
be essential as long as the charger has the correct profile- ie Brusa.

The factory charger is available but I don't want to risk the same
event and the charger is a spare part and no longer made. The PIVCO
and others with the same pack use a Brusa.

Mark


[email protected] wrote:

>
> << http://web.mac.com/markdutko/iWeb/Site/speed%20sensor.html
> <<
> << Does anyone know of a charger that could work on this pack, The car
> << has a BMS that talks to the charger and the BMS can be read from
> the
> << factory diagnostic tool. I don't think a PFC could be set up to do
> << the profile for a Nicad but I am open to any suggestions or people
> << who may have a used Brusa or something. This is a great EV with a
> << great pack and a part of SF history and I really want to take the
> << best care in preserving it.
>
> I remember Marc Geller taking us for a ride - cool little car! Now the
> questions:
> What's the pack size (voltage and amp-hours)?
> I think Rich had mentioned using the PFC with NiCds, but what kind of
> input would it need to to use the data from the BMS?
> Are there any electronics whizzes on the list who could troubleshoot
> your dead charger for you?
> Seems repair (and upgrades) might be cheaper than buying another one
> that might not be as good a match to the current setup.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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Discussion Starter #5
>If the charger talks to the BMS, I think you're out of luck; you'll
>have to get an original.


Get someone to fix it. There are some people on this list that can
fix (almost) anything. Can you take a e-photo of the blown-up
carcass and post it somewhere so we may have a better look?

-Dale

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Discussion Starter #6
Mark Dutko writes:
>
> 19 SM5-100 MRE, 6 volt. According to Think the issue is not uncommon
> and I was told it could not be repaired, the bms connection may not
> be essential as long as the charger has the correct profile- ie Brusa.

Mark,

It's likely that the BMS is essential because the correct SAFT NiCAD
charge profile depends on the charger knowing how many amp hours have
been taken out of the batteries, both for running each cycle and for
knowing when to run a maintenance charge. The BMS probably provides
this information to the charger.

Do you know anything about the BMS? How is the BMS connected to the
charger? Is there a shunt with board on or near the shunt, with wires
running to the charger?

Ralph

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Discussion Starter #7
There are two communication wires from the BMS to the charger, I can
cahrge with a PFC at a low A and votage and read the BMS from the
diagnostic tool and see the amps into the pack, I think it keeps
track of all charging via a shunt elsewhere and logs it to the bms.

Mark


Ralph Merwin wrote:

> Mark Dutko writes:
>>
>> 19 SM5-100 MRE, 6 volt. According to Think the issue is not uncommon
>> and I was told it could not be repaired, the bms connection may not
>> be essential as long as the charger has the correct profile- ie
>> Brusa.
>
> Mark,
>
> It's likely that the BMS is essential because the correct SAFT NiCAD
> charge profile depends on the charger knowing how many amp hours have
> been taken out of the batteries, both for running each cycle and for
> knowing when to run a maintenance charge. The BMS probably provides
> this information to the charger.
>
> Do you know anything about the BMS? How is the BMS connected to the
> charger? Is there a shunt with board on or near the shunt, with wires
> running to the charger?
>
> Ralph
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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Discussion Starter #8
Hello Mark,

Seems you have the same than Renault clio and rapid model, they are using a
special though inadequat capacitor which explode after some time because of
to much ripple current.
One solution to help is a 60X60mm cooling fan at bottom and opening a rain
protected air escape windows on top, solution is using a better low ESR VERY
high ripple current capacitor
(few of them coupled is even better yet )
Capacitor value is "arround" 650 to 880 uF

i uploaded some pictures of a "not so destroyed" charger here:

http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/images/ClioChargeur.jpg
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/images/ClioChargeurinterieur.jpg
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/images/ClioChargeurinterieur2.jpg
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/images/ChargeurClioHS1.jpg
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/images/ChargeurClioHS2.jpg
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/images/ChargeurClioHS6.jpg
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/images/ChargeurClioHS7.jpg

cleaning your charger and changing this problematic capacitor should
rejuvenate it :^)

hope this help
Philippe


2007/8/31, Mark Dutko <[email protected]>:
>
> A week ago I received my Think City from Norway. This was one of the
> original Thinks and was in the Millennium Dome in the UK on
> exhibition for many years and then sold to a private party in Norway
> on ebay where a new Saft pack of Nicads was installed (never had a
> pack) about a couple years ago. The car only has 1200 miles on it and
> after a couple charges here in the US the Actia Energy J71 3.3kw
> charger died. I opened it ti find the strangest soot everywhere and
> melted parts. I called Think last night and I was told this was not
> uncommon and although they have the original replacement I would
> prefer not to spend big bucks on another lemon and the Brusas from
> Metric Mind are a bit expensive particularly after the money I spent
> getting the car here. See pics--
>
>
> http://web.mac.com/markdutko/iWeb/Site/speed%20sensor.html
>
> Does anyone know of a charger that could work on this pack, The car
> has a BMS that talks to the charger and the BMS can be read from the
> factory diagnostic tool. I don't think a PFC could be set up to do
> the profile for a Nicad but I am open to any suggestions or people
> who may have a used Brusa or something. This is a great EV with a
> great pack and a part of SF history and I really want to take the
> best care in preserving it.
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
_______________________________________________
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Discussion Starter #9
I forget picture of the fan cooling system modification:

<http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/images/ClioChargeur.jpg>
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/images/chargeurcliomodification.jpg<http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/images/ClioChargeur.jpg>

Philippe



2007/9/2, vehiculeselectriques. free. fr <[email protected]>:
>
> Hello Mark,
>
> Seems you have the same than Renault clio and rapid model, they are using
> a special though inadequat capacitor which explode after some time because
> of to much ripple current.
> One solution to help is a 60X60mm cooling fan at bottom and opening a rain
> protected air escape windows on top, solution is using a better low ESR VERY
> high ripple current capacitor
> (few of them coupled is even better yet )
> Capacitor value is "arround" 650 to 880 uF
>
> i uploaded some pictures of a "not so destroyed" charger here:
>
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/images/ClioChargeur.jpg
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/images/ClioChargeurinterieur.jpg
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/images/ClioChargeurinterieur2.jpg
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/images/ChargeurClioHS1.jpg
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/images/ChargeurClioHS2.jpg
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/images/ChargeurClioHS6.jpg
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/images/ChargeurClioHS7.jpg
>
> cleaning your charger and changing this problematic capacitor should
> rejuvenate it :^)
>
> hope this help
> Philippe
>
>
> 2007/8/31, Mark Dutko <[email protected]>:
> >
> > A week ago I received my Think City from Norway. This was one of the
> > original Thinks and was in the Millennium Dome in the UK on
> > exhibition for many years and then sold to a private party in Norway
> > on ebay where a new Saft pack of Nicads was installed (never had a
> > pack) about a couple years ago. The car only has 1200 miles on it and
> > after a couple charges here in the US the Actia Energy J71 3.3kw
> > charger died. I opened it ti find the strangest soot everywhere and
> > melted parts. I called Think last night and I was told this was not
> > uncommon and although they have the original replacement I would
> > prefer not to spend big bucks on another lemon and the Brusas from
> > Metric Mind are a bit expensive particularly after the money I spent
> > getting the car here. See pics--
> >
> >
> > http://web.mac.com/markdutko/iWeb/Site/speed%20sensor.html
> >
> > Does anyone know of a charger that could work on this pack, The car
> > has a BMS that talks to the charger and the BMS can be read from the
> > factory diagnostic tool. I don't think a PFC could be set up to do
> > the profile for a Nicad but I am open to any suggestions or people
> > who may have a used Brusa or something. This is a great EV with a
> > great pack and a part of SF history and I really want to take the
> > best care in preserving it.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
>
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Discussion Starter #10
<http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/images/ClioChargeur.jpg>Hum sorry
Gmail is playing with my nerves...

here its is:
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/images/chargeurcliomodification.jpg<http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/images/ClioChargeur.jpg>

Philippe
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Discussion Starter #11
Ouch, it's becoming Grrrrrrr:

last one of cooling system is... good one ?

http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/images/chargeurcliomodification.jpg

sorry
Philippe



2007/8/31, Mark Dutko <[email protected]>:
>
> There are two communication wires from the BMS to the charger, I can
> cahrge with a PFC at a low A and votage and read the BMS from the
> diagnostic tool and see the amps into the pack, I think it keeps
> track of all charging via a shunt elsewhere and logs it to the bms.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
Ralph Merwin wrote:
>
> > Mark Dutko writes:
> >>
> >> 19 SM5-100 MRE, 6 volt. According to Think the issue is not uncommon
> >> and I was told it could not be repaired, the bms connection may not
> >> be essential as long as the charger has the correct profile- ie
> >> Brusa.
> >
> > Mark,
> >
> > It's likely that the BMS is essential because the correct SAFT NiCAD
> > charge profile depends on the charger knowing how many amp hours have
> > been taken out of the batteries, both for running each cycle and for
> > knowing when to run a maintenance charge. The BMS probably provides
> > this information to the charger.
> >
> > Do you know anything about the BMS? How is the BMS connected to the
> > charger? Is there a shunt with board on or near the shunt, with wires
> > running to the charger?
> >
> > Ralph
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
_______________________________________________
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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks, however the Think I own is not an NEV it is a full size think
with a 114v pack of Saft STM 5-100 MRE.

http://www.saftbatteries.com/120-Techno/10-10_produit.asp?
sSegment=&sSegmentLien=&sSecteurLien=&secteur=&Intitule_Produit=STM&page
=2


m gol wrote:

> Me again.. I have a 10 amp 72 volt battery charger that came out of a
> Th!nk.
>
> I bought it used on ebay. It has 6 wires.
>
> Is this the same guy you need?
>
> later,
>
> On 8/31/07, Mark Dutko <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> A week ago I received my Think City from Norway. This was one of the
>> original Thinks and was in the Millennium Dome in the UK on
>> exhibition for many years and then sold to a private party in Norway
>> on ebay where a new Saft pack of Nicads was installed (never had a
>> pack) about a couple years ago. The car only has 1200 miles on it and
>> after a couple charges here in the US the Actia Energy J71 3.3kw
>> charger died. I opened it ti find the strangest soot everywhere and
>> melted parts. I called Think last night and I was told this was not
>> uncommon and although they have the original replacement I would
>> prefer not to spend big bucks on another lemon and the Brusas from
>> Metric Mind are a bit expensive particularly after the money I spent
>> getting the car here. See pics--
>>
>>
>> http://web.mac.com/markdutko/iWeb/Site/speed%20sensor.html
>>
>> Does anyone know of a charger that could work on this pack, The car
>> has a BMS that talks to the charger and the BMS can be read from the
>> factory diagnostic tool. I don't think a PFC could be set up to do
>> the profile for a Nicad but I am open to any suggestions or people
>> who may have a used Brusa or something. This is a great EV with a
>> great pack and a part of SF history and I really want to take the
>> best care in preserving it.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
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Discussion Starter #14
I have charged SAFT NiCd batteries in my golf cart using a PFC-20 and an
external computer.

Paul Wallace is duplicating my system for his NiCd powered truck in
Portland.

Are you interesting in using an external computer to add the necessary
programmability to do the SAFT profile and read the BMS signals from the
diagnostic tool?

Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Former owner of 48 Volt Fiesta
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[email protected]


> Does anyone know of a charger that could work on this pack, The car
> has a BMS that talks to the charger and the BMS can be read from the
> factory diagnostic tool. I don't think a PFC could be set up to do
> the profile for a Nicad but I am open to any suggestions or people
> who may have a used Brusa or something. This is a great EV with a
> great pack and a part of SF history and I really want to take the
> best care in preserving it.
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Mark
>

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Discussion Starter #15
I'm interested in any option- how doeas one control the PCF charging
that way?

M
Joe Smalley wrote:

> I have charged SAFT NiCd batteries in my golf cart using a PFC-20
> and an
> external computer.
>
> Paul Wallace is duplicating my system for his NiCd powered truck in
> Portland.
>
> Are you interesting in using an external computer to add the necessary
> programmability to do the SAFT profile and read the BMS signals
> from the
> diagnostic tool?
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Former owner of 48 Volt Fiesta
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [email protected]
>
>
>> Does anyone know of a charger that could work on this pack, The car
>> has a BMS that talks to the charger and the BMS can be read from the
>> factory diagnostic tool. I don't think a PFC could be set up to do
>> the profile for a Nicad but I am open to any suggestions or people
>> who may have a used Brusa or something. This is a great EV with a
>> great pack and a part of SF history and I really want to take the
>> best care in preserving it.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>> Mark
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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