[EVDL List]

Hi,

My hat's off to those who race and push the envelope as that inproves the
technology for everyone.

With the recent buzz about Bill's mishap, I was wondering if it has a main
contactor shut-off that inherently kills the power to the controller
everytime the throttle is released. On something that goes this fast it
might be a good idea to wire the contactor to the brake light switch as
well. Just a safety thought, I've been doing this on all my EV throttle
controls since the 70's.

Although all my conversions have been lowly to & from work commuters, I've
ridden a motorcycle for 35 years and it's possible that on quick
acceleration, the throttle grip gets pulled back so having a direct brake
peddle contactor controller shut off might be a good addition to a race
bike.

Have a renewable energy day,
Mark

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[EVDL List]

--- Mark Hanson <[email protected]> wrote:
> On something that goes this fast it
> might be a good idea to wire the contactor to the brake light switch as
> well. Just a safety thought, I've been doing this on all my EV throttle
> controls since the 70's.
>

I agree with most of your thoughts, but it might not have helped in Bill's situation. First off,
Bill had both feet on the ground while doing the burnout, so his foot was nowhere near the brake
pedal. Second, It's real hard to grab the hand brake when you're hangin on for dear life. You
almost have to let go of the throttle to grab the brake. Although I guess his hand was partailly
holding the front brake to keep the bike in place, if it slipped off it could be real hard to
quickly grab it again.

So for a drag bike that needs to hold with the front brake while spinning the rear tire the
circuit could only operate off the foot pedal.

How about this. Have a remote kill switch that second operator could control? Or a simple wire
attached to a block that kills the bike if it moves more than a couple of feet?

Just a few ideas, unemcumbered by the thought process.

Dave Cover

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[EVDL List]

That's fine for a street bike, but I see two problems on a race bike.
First, you need simultaneous brake and part throttle to do a burnout to warm
the tire. With a little logic you could just trigger the cutoff from the
rear brake, but then you still have the problem that Killacycle can go a
long way in the time it takes the rider to get off the throttle or hit the
rear brake. Something that can go 0-60 in less than a second really needs a
safety that takes the rider out of the loop, or just never attempt a burnout
without a long shutdown lane.

In Bills case, as I understand it, the problem wasn't that the motor didn't
shut down when the throttle was released, it was that Bill had to release
the front brake to twist the throttle back, and that reaction time delayed
that action. Many people probably would have frozen faced with the decision
whether to release the brake to kill the throttle or just squeeze the brake
harder, which might have made things a whole lot worse. That's a decision
that ideally the rider shouldn't have to make in a split second.

Another issue might have been the type of kill mechanisms used. There are
two types. Those that kill the drive if the rider takes some action (like
push a button), and those that kill the drive if the rider doesn't maintain
some action (like a button needs to be held down to continue). That still
wouldn't eliminate the reaction time, unless the rider lost his grip.

I really think that if burnouts are going to be done anyplace but on a drag
strip, some sort of traction or distance sensor kill system must have
automatic override capability. I suspect that a current sensor could be
used to detect a level of motor current that indicates too much traction.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hanson" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 8:07 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Throttle cut-off


> Hi,
>
> My hat's off to those who race and push the envelope as that inproves the
> technology for everyone.
>
> With the recent buzz about Bill's mishap, I was wondering if it has a main
> contactor shut-off that inherently kills the power to the controller
> everytime the throttle is released. On something that goes this fast it
> might be a good idea to wire the contactor to the brake light switch as
> well. Just a safety thought, I've been doing this on all my EV throttle
> controls since the 70's.
>
> Although all my conversions have been lowly to & from work commuters, I've
> ridden a motorcycle for 35 years and it's possible that on quick
> acceleration, the throttle grip gets pulled back so having a direct brake
> peddle contactor controller shut off might be a good addition to a race
> bike.
>
> Have a renewable energy day,
> Mark
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Test your celebrity IQ. Play Red Carpet Reveal and earn great prizes!
> http://club.live.com/red_carpet_reveal.aspx?icid=redcarpet_hotmailtextlink2
>
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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[EVDL List]

that's the thought i had "two types... if the rider
doesn't maintain some action" if the bike could
respond to some action that should not happen in a
burn out, maybe a butt switch? i think most people
raise their weight off the bike for a burn out
[right?], if the bike measured some sudden weight or
inertia it would shut off, or maybe just sensor
[button?] in the seat: you sit down the bike shuts
off. of course that option will need to be turned off
when not doing burn outs.

--- Marty Hewes <[email protected]> wrote:

> That's fine for a street bike, but I see two
> problems on a race bike.
> First, you need simultaneous brake and part throttle
> to do a burnout to warm
> the tire. With a little logic you could just
> trigger the cutoff from the
> rear brake, but then you still have the problem that
> Killacycle can go a
> long way in the time it takes the rider to get off
> the throttle or hit the
> rear brake. Something that can go 0-60 in less than
> a second really needs a
> safety that takes the rider out of the loop, or just
> never attempt a burnout
> without a long shutdown lane.
>
> In Bills case, as I understand it, the problem
> wasn't that the motor didn't
> shut down when the throttle was released, it was
> that Bill had to release
> the front brake to twist the throttle back, and that
> reaction time delayed
> that action. Many people probably would have frozen
> faced with the decision
> whether to release the brake to kill the throttle or
> just squeeze the brake
> harder, which might have made things a whole lot
> worse. That's a decision
> that ideally the rider shouldn't have to make in a
> split second.
>
> Another issue might have been the type of kill
> mechanisms used. There are
> two types. Those that kill the drive if the rider
> takes some action (like
> push a button), and those that kill the drive if the
> rider doesn't maintain
> some action (like a button needs to be held down to
> continue). That still
> wouldn't eliminate the reaction time, unless the
> rider lost his grip.
>
> I really think that if burnouts are going to be done
> anyplace but on a drag
> strip, some sort of traction or distance sensor kill
> system must have
> automatic override capability. I suspect that a
> current sensor could be
> used to detect a level of motor current that
> indicates too much traction.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Hanson" <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 8:07 AM
> Subject: [EVDL] Throttle cut-off
>
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > My hat's off to those who race and push the
> envelope as that inproves the
> > technology for everyone.
> >
> > With the recent buzz about Bill's mishap, I was
> wondering if it has a main
> > contactor shut-off that inherently kills the power
> to the controller
> > everytime the throttle is released. On something
> that goes this fast it
> > might be a good idea to wire the contactor to the
> brake light switch as
> > well. Just a safety thought, I've been doing this
> on all my EV throttle
> > controls since the 70's.
> >
> > Although all my conversions have been lowly to &
> from work commuters, I've
> > ridden a motorcycle for 35 years and it's possible
> that on quick
> > acceleration, the throttle grip gets pulled back
> so having a direct brake
> > peddle contactor controller shut off might be a
> good addition to a race
> > bike.
> >
> > Have a renewable energy day,
> > Mark
> >
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________
> > Test your celebrity IQ. Play Red Carpet Reveal and
> earn great prizes!
> >
>
http://club.live.com/red_carpet_reveal.aspx?icid=redcarpet_hotmailtextlink2
> >
> >
>
>
>
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>
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
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>


harry

Albuquerque, NM
http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1221
http://geocities.com/solarcookingman


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