>How much weight in Batteries are you carrying on board your little
>car? Remember these little cars are
> > not designed to carry much weight. Your car needs to sit level. Good struts
> > with strong springs will help.
My experience with VW vehicles led me to believe that the factory VW
was a little conservative given what I had seen in the field.
>When I've measured the car at the tops of the wheel arches to the
>ground, the car actually sits just a tad higher than as a stock diesel.
> I'll measure this every few years or so. And I believe the F/R
>heights are at about the same proportion as a diesel. BUT, those diesel
>#s were probably on old springs and struts (I had the car as a diesel
>for only three months).
The ride height numbers that were used as benchmarks were taken from
a clean low mileage gas rabbit ( in 1991 you could still find one like that).
>My understanding is that the EA VoltsRabbit kit was designed to keep the
>total weight under GVWR. The Rabbits have quite a wide spread between
>curb weight and GVWR. 2000-lb stock diesel Rabbit. 2940-lb VoltsRabbit
>(these were the actual weights on the scales) with 16 US-2300 (US-125 @
>65-lb apiece) battery pack. GVWR is about 2900-lb, but of course that
>changes with upgraded components. When I hop in, though, at ~180-190lb,
>then the car will be over GVWR (the 2900-lb GVWR). With this last pack,
>now US2200 @ 60-lb each, I've dropped 60-80lb.
Actually I was more interested how the weight was divided. After
much head scratching we had a battery pack layout that gave us the
same 60%-40% weight distribution that the Rabbit had as a gas car
which was ideal for fast drives into town over the mountain roads we
use to get there.
>I've noticed that these Rabbit and Golfs (I'm talking stock gas/diesel)
>do tend to have more nose-up than many other cars. So be it. I like
>nose-down a little more.
Much time, money,and beer has been spent trying to resolve this one.
>My mechanic says he could custom build a front brace for me across those
>strut towers. I've thought about it. I don't know what a brace across
>the rear towers would look like, probably the same deal more or less
>straight across, which on most days with the rear seat back sitting up
>would be ok, but on the odd day I have a big box to put in there with
>the rear seat folded down, would stop the show. Also would probably
>have to modify the hold-down straps for the rear battery box to open the
>lid fully.
I would check to see if there has been any distortion caused by the
weight of the batteries and all the miles as a EV. The easiest way to
do this is to measure the distance between the top shock absorber mounts.
According to the Robert Bentley Service Manual the distance between
the front shock mounts (center to center) should 42 1/8" and the
rear mounts should be 40 5/32". A tolerance of plus or minus 1/4"
is acceptable. If the top mounts are distorted by the weight of the
batteries, the top of the body where the strut assembly fastens will
be pushed up into domed shape and the distance between the shock
mounts will be smaller. At this point a very thorough examination of
cars floor pan by a body and frame shop should be done.
> > Have you looked at the underside of the car to be sure you don't
> have some cracks in the floor pan at the suspension mount points
>Thee car was last on the shop hoist about three years ago. Everytime
>it's been up so where I can get underneath it, a crack has never been seen.
We have used the original prototype VoltsRabbit in our Hands-on
classes as a teaching aid, which involves taking the conversion apart
down to a rolling chassis and then having the class members install
the EV parts and drive the car out of the shop. While this teardown
and re-assembly process is happening I check all the places where
cracks might develop and for any other potential problem
spots. Since it is the same car every time any damage would be easy to spot.
We have yet to find anything failing or failed. This car has been in
service 19 years.
>I believe the alignment has always been this way as a conversion. But I
>may dig back into the older records from the mid-90s and double check
>the alignment #s.
Having past repair records for any car is one of the best diagnostic
tools you can get. Check the alignment numbers in chronological
order and see any trends in the alignment numbers have started to form.
Then my advice is to show the alignment technician your numbers and
then have the alignment checked giving special attention to what
might cause the changes you have noticed.
>It's quite possible that the issue is from an accident. When I was
>shopping around for a place to have the car painted and minor body work
>done back in late '96, one shop did note clamp marks on the seams on the
>underside of the body, indicating the car had been realigned in a
>bodyshop after an accident. It's conceivable that if there was actually
>an accident, and say the car was pushed against a curb (or driven
>against a curb), that could have bent the rear axle beam a bit. Just
>speculation, though.
Old news you have to fix it now.
> > Go Lithium. Lighter in weight and you get to go further per charge.
Same car different more expensive problem.
Mike Brown
Electro Automotive, POB 1113, Felton, CA 95018-1113 Phone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com email [email protected]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>car? Remember these little cars are
> > not designed to carry much weight. Your car needs to sit level. Good struts
> > with strong springs will help.
My experience with VW vehicles led me to believe that the factory VW
was a little conservative given what I had seen in the field.
>When I've measured the car at the tops of the wheel arches to the
>ground, the car actually sits just a tad higher than as a stock diesel.
> I'll measure this every few years or so. And I believe the F/R
>heights are at about the same proportion as a diesel. BUT, those diesel
>#s were probably on old springs and struts (I had the car as a diesel
>for only three months).
The ride height numbers that were used as benchmarks were taken from
a clean low mileage gas rabbit ( in 1991 you could still find one like that).
>My understanding is that the EA VoltsRabbit kit was designed to keep the
>total weight under GVWR. The Rabbits have quite a wide spread between
>curb weight and GVWR. 2000-lb stock diesel Rabbit. 2940-lb VoltsRabbit
>(these were the actual weights on the scales) with 16 US-2300 (US-125 @
>65-lb apiece) battery pack. GVWR is about 2900-lb, but of course that
>changes with upgraded components. When I hop in, though, at ~180-190lb,
>then the car will be over GVWR (the 2900-lb GVWR). With this last pack,
>now US2200 @ 60-lb each, I've dropped 60-80lb.
Actually I was more interested how the weight was divided. After
much head scratching we had a battery pack layout that gave us the
same 60%-40% weight distribution that the Rabbit had as a gas car
which was ideal for fast drives into town over the mountain roads we
use to get there.
>I've noticed that these Rabbit and Golfs (I'm talking stock gas/diesel)
>do tend to have more nose-up than many other cars. So be it. I like
>nose-down a little more.
Much time, money,and beer has been spent trying to resolve this one.
>My mechanic says he could custom build a front brace for me across those
>strut towers. I've thought about it. I don't know what a brace across
>the rear towers would look like, probably the same deal more or less
>straight across, which on most days with the rear seat back sitting up
>would be ok, but on the odd day I have a big box to put in there with
>the rear seat folded down, would stop the show. Also would probably
>have to modify the hold-down straps for the rear battery box to open the
>lid fully.
I would check to see if there has been any distortion caused by the
weight of the batteries and all the miles as a EV. The easiest way to
do this is to measure the distance between the top shock absorber mounts.
According to the Robert Bentley Service Manual the distance between
the front shock mounts (center to center) should 42 1/8" and the
rear mounts should be 40 5/32". A tolerance of plus or minus 1/4"
is acceptable. If the top mounts are distorted by the weight of the
batteries, the top of the body where the strut assembly fastens will
be pushed up into domed shape and the distance between the shock
mounts will be smaller. At this point a very thorough examination of
cars floor pan by a body and frame shop should be done.
> > Have you looked at the underside of the car to be sure you don't
> have some cracks in the floor pan at the suspension mount points
>Thee car was last on the shop hoist about three years ago. Everytime
>it's been up so where I can get underneath it, a crack has never been seen.
We have used the original prototype VoltsRabbit in our Hands-on
classes as a teaching aid, which involves taking the conversion apart
down to a rolling chassis and then having the class members install
the EV parts and drive the car out of the shop. While this teardown
and re-assembly process is happening I check all the places where
cracks might develop and for any other potential problem
spots. Since it is the same car every time any damage would be easy to spot.
We have yet to find anything failing or failed. This car has been in
service 19 years.
>I believe the alignment has always been this way as a conversion. But I
>may dig back into the older records from the mid-90s and double check
>the alignment #s.
Having past repair records for any car is one of the best diagnostic
tools you can get. Check the alignment numbers in chronological
order and see any trends in the alignment numbers have started to form.
Then my advice is to show the alignment technician your numbers and
then have the alignment checked giving special attention to what
might cause the changes you have noticed.
>It's quite possible that the issue is from an accident. When I was
>shopping around for a place to have the car painted and minor body work
>done back in late '96, one shop did note clamp marks on the seams on the
>underside of the body, indicating the car had been realigned in a
>bodyshop after an accident. It's conceivable that if there was actually
>an accident, and say the car was pushed against a curb (or driven
>against a curb), that could have bent the rear axle beam a bit. Just
>speculation, though.
Old news you have to fix it now.
> > Go Lithium. Lighter in weight and you get to go further per charge.
Same car different more expensive problem.
Mike Brown
Electro Automotive, POB 1113, Felton, CA 95018-1113 Phone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com email [email protected]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
