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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok. It's time to build my second EV. The first one, a '99 Saturn with 9"
ADC at 120V, has worked nicely for 8,000+ miles, but is a bit pokey. My EV
grin has diminished and needs a recharge that only a Muscle EV will fix.

I have a new build in mind, but I'm not really sure how well it will
perform. My target is to build a high performance car that will outrun most
V8's.

Here is what I have in mind. A Factory Five Mk4 (Cobra replica) with a
Warp 11, 1400A controller and a 170V 160Ah lithium pack. The Mk4 weighs
in at only 2200 lbs with a big V8.

Does this combination have the beef that I'm looking for? How would it
perform? What would you change? Higher voltage pack with HV motor?
Warp 13?

Cheers,
Wayne


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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
On 17 Nov 2010 at 18:30, Wayne Krauth wrote:

> My target is to build a high performance car that will outrun
> most V8's.

Wayne, while there are plenty of people here who can help you decide how to
proceed, you might find even more support over at the NEDRA (National
Electric Drag Racing Association) Yahoo Group.

http://www.nedra.com/

Again, not that the EVDL doesn't have plenty of expertise in this area, but
NEDRA folks are pretty darn serious about electric horsepower.

David Roden
EVDL Administrator
http://www.evdl.org/


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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
OK Wayne,
Racing can be fun, I had plenty of fun with muscle cars in the 1970's
but I had more fun with a car that didn't look "Fast" but was in fact very
quick. Give me a "Q-ship" like a 1971 Datsun 510 and put the drive train
your considering into it and you will make them all "GaGa..] There are some
"510's available, many were used in racing, four wheel independent
suspension and anti roll bars front and rear. they were surprising in
factory tune, with an electric motor they would be a mind blower.
Regards,
Dennis Miles
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wayne Krauth <[email protected]>wrote:

>
> Ok. It's time to build my second EV. The first one, a '99 Saturn with 9"
> ADC at 120V, has worked nicely for 8,000+ miles, but is a bit pokey. My
> EV
> grin has diminished and needs a recharge that only a Muscle EV will fix.
>
> I have a new build in mind, but I'm not really sure how well it will
> perform. My target is to build a high performance car that will outrun
> most
> V8's.
>
> Here is what I have in mind. A Factory Five Mk4 (Cobra replica) with a
> Warp 11, 1400A controller and a 170V 160Ah lithium pack. The Mk4 weighs
> in at only 2200 lbs with a big V8.
>
> Does this combination have the beef that I'm looking for? How would it
> perform? What would you change? Higher voltage pack with HV motor?
> Warp 13?
>
> Cheers,
> Wayne
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/What-does-it-take-to-build-a-Muscle-EV-tp3047993p3047993.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
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>



--
Regards,
*Dennis Lee Miles* (Director) *E.V.T.I. inc*.
*www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM <http://www.e-v-t-i-inc.com/> *(Adviser)*
EVTI-EVAEducation Chapter
*
Phone (813) ID4 - E V T I or (813) 434 - 3884 (I think word phone
numbers can be fun and good mnemonics aid memory.)
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Will check out NEDRA more closely, thanks.

I am looking to have a fun street vehicle that might occasionally find it's
way to the local 1/8 mile drag strip. If it goes there, it needs to beat
some (or most!) of the gas competition. We can't afford to embarrass our
beloved EV world ;-)

The 65 Coupe at http://evalbum.com/1097 is direct drive and is using a
'separately excited' 11 transwarp. I wonder how that differs from the 11
or 11hv? The description of acceleration on that coupe sounds like what I
would hope to get.

Wayne


Rick Beebe wrote:
>
> On 11/17/2010 9:30 PM, Wayne Krauth wrote:
> Here is what I have in mind. A Factory Five Mk4 (Cobra replica) with
> a
>> Warp 11, 1400A controller and a 170V 160Ah lithium pack. The Mk4
>> weighs
>> in at only 2200 lbs with a big V8.
>>
>> Does this combination have the beef that I'm looking for? How would it
>> perform? What would you change? Higher voltage pack with HV motor?
>> Warp 13?
>
> Are you looking to drag race or to track race? Ie fast acceleration or
> just plain fast? The components you list are probably enough to turn
> the drive shaft into a modern sculpture if you want. The Warp 11HV looks
> kind of interesting to me. Not because it can take higher voltage but
> because of the way it's built. I think a 13 would be way overkill for
> this application.
>
> Michael Kadie at SSI Racing has been doing what you're talking about. I
> believe he built a Cobra but his current racer is a Factory 5 Type 65
> Coupe.
>
> It looks like he's going to build some more Cobra's, though:
>
> http://ssinc.us/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=106&title=we-are-electrifying-10-shelby-america-427s
>
> I agree with David--if you're talking about drag racing this beast then
> you need to check out NEDRA.
>
> --Rick
>
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>

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The ThunderSky cells are supposed to be capable of 20C burst discharge, which
would be 3200A for the 160Ah cells, so I expect that they can tolerate the
~1000A for a 10 second acceleration.

It is a good question though, as I see quite a range of continuous and burst
C ratings among the different brands.

Wayne


John G. Lussmyer wrote:
>
> On 11/17/2010 6:30 PM, Wayne Krauth wrote:
>> Here is what I have in mind. A Factory Five Mk4 (Cobra replica) with a
>> Warp 11, 1400A controller and a 170V 160Ah lithium pack. The Mk4
>> weighs
>> in at only 2200 lbs with a big V8.
>
> I thought lithiums were rather peak current limited. i.e. you aren't
> going to be able to get 1000A+ out of that pack.
>
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hi Wayne,

> The ThunderSky cells are supposed to be capable of 20C burst discharge,
> which
> would be 3200A for the 160Ah cells, so I expect that they can tolerate the
> ~1000A for a 10 second acceleration.
at 20C, you can only maintian that output for 0.02 seconds.
at 3C, its 30 seconds.

you can pull more than 3C, however, the amount of time you can do it for is
much shorter than 30 seconds.
7C is possible for ~5 seconds.

so 1000A from 160Ah cells is ok, just not for very long (voltage will sag to
~2.5 volts per cell average at 20 deg celcius)

you can pull higher current for longer, at the expense of service life.

Matt


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne Krauth" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 1:25 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What does it take to build a Muscle EV?


>
> The ThunderSky cells are supposed to be capable of 20C burst discharge,
> which
> would be 3200A for the 160Ah cells, so I expect that they can tolerate the
> ~1000A for a 10 second acceleration.
>
> It is a good question though, as I see quite a range of continuous and
> burst
> C ratings among the different brands.
>
> Wayne
>
>
> John G. Lussmyer wrote:
>>
>> On 11/17/2010 6:30 PM, Wayne Krauth wrote:
>>> Here is what I have in mind. A Factory Five Mk4 (Cobra replica) with
>>> a
>>> Warp 11, 1400A controller and a 170V 160Ah lithium pack. The Mk4
>>> weighs
>>> in at only 2200 lbs with a big V8.
>>
>> I thought lithiums were rather peak current limited. i.e. you aren't
>> going to be able to get 1000A+ out of that pack.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
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>
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
>Look at the terminals. On some cells, the terminals are small and made of
aluminum.
> -- not good construction for high currents.

Or maybe it is...isn't aluminum a much better conductor than copper as long
it isn't corroded?


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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Myles Twete <[email protected]> wrote:

> >Look at the terminals. On some cells, the terminals are small and made of
> aluminum.
> > -- not good construction for high currents.
>
> Or maybe it is...isn't aluminum a much better conductor than copper as long
> it isn't corroded?
>
>
> I don't think so ... Aluminum wiring is banned for interior wiring, and
most of the NEC tables I've seen list lower ampacities than copper wire.
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
No, copper is a very good conductor. Aluminum is still a good conductor
compared to most metals but is not as good as copper.

See here for some numbers. They probably don't mean much to you but notice
how silver is the best then copper then gold then aluminum.

Myles Twete <[email protected]> wrote:

> >Look at the terminals. On some cells, the terminals are small and made of
> aluminum.
> > -- not good construction for high currents.
>
> Or maybe it is...isn't aluminum a much better conductor than copper as long
> it isn't corroded?
>
>
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Heh, whoops... See this link that I forgot:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_conductivity

Collin Kidder <[email protected]> wrote:

> No, copper is a very good conductor. Aluminum is still a good conductor
> compared to most metals but is not as good as copper.
>
> See here for some numbers. They probably don't mean much to you but notice
> how silver is the best then copper then gold then aluminum.
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Myles Twete <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> >Look at the terminals. On some cells, the terminals are small and made of
>> aluminum.
>> > -- not good construction for high currents.
>>
>> Or maybe it is...isn't aluminum a much better conductor than copper as
>> long
>> it isn't corroded?
>>
>>
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>
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Nope. Copper is better. Aluminum is still not bad as long as it's
nit corroded though, and lighter. Silver and gold are better than
copper but somwhat expensive.....:)


Myles Twete <[email protected]> wrote:
>>Look at the terminals. On some cells, the terminals are small and made of
> aluminum.
>> -- not good construction for high currents.
>
> Or maybe it is...isn't aluminum a much better conductor than copper as long
> it isn't corroded?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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