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Discussion Starter #1
I sent this a while back, and never got any response. I'll try one more
time, and then I'll drop it, assuming it's an unsolvable mystery.

I've been looking at plug standards that might be useful for plugging in
EVs and/or making heavy extension cords for the public events we go to.

I've noticed something that has me completely baffled. NEMA has a
designation for an L6-50 plug, though I've looked online and found a lot
of folks (apparently including electrical professionals) claiming there
is no such designation, which is obviously untrue. The design does
exist, and the diagram for it can be viewed here, among plenty of other
places:

http://www.stayonline.com/reference-nema-locking.aspx

This, one would think, would be the official North American standard for
a 240VAC, 50A locking plug, since NEMA defines those standards.

Problem is, L6-50 devices (plug, connector, inlet) do not seem to exist
in the material world. Apparently no manufacturer produces devices to
this spec. Instead there's this non-NEMA "California standard" CS8265N
plug design, that seems to be what everyone has decided is the way we're
supposed to do 50A locking plugs.

Anyone have any background on how this happened?
--
Christopher Robison
[email protected]
http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!

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Discussion Starter #2
Years ago I worked as a commercial electrician. It has been my experience,
even still, that any application that would need a L6-50 ends up using the
one you specified simply referred to as the "CA Standard" which is a 50a
grounded twist-lock.

My educated guess, is that this was formed years ago by the movie industry
for portable/temporary power, and became the defacto standard before NEMA
had a foothold.

It is used in all "spider boxes", many gensets on wheels, and at convention
halls, stadiums, etc.

Here they are on the same site you provided a link to:
http://www.stayonline.com/searchresult.aspx?categoryid=2270

Personally, I use this on my charger and think it's a good standard. It's
too bulky for residential use though, such as dryers, ranges, etc., where
you need a low profile.

-Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Robison" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 1:17 PM
Subject: [EVDL] What happened to the NEMA L6-50?


>I sent this a while back, and never got any response. I'll try one more
> time, and then I'll drop it, assuming it's an unsolvable mystery.
>
> I've been looking at plug standards that might be useful for plugging in
> EVs and/or making heavy extension cords for the public events we go to.
>
> I've noticed something that has me completely baffled. NEMA has a
> designation for an L6-50 plug, though I've looked online and found a lot
> of folks (apparently including electrical professionals) claiming there
> is no such designation, which is obviously untrue. The design does
> exist, and the diagram for it can be viewed here, among plenty of other
> places:
>
> http://www.stayonline.com/reference-nema-locking.aspx
>
> This, one would think, would be the official North American standard for
> a 240VAC, 50A locking plug, since NEMA defines those standards.
>
> Problem is, L6-50 devices (plug, connector, inlet) do not seem to exist
> in the material world. Apparently no manufacturer produces devices to
> this spec. Instead there's this non-NEMA "California standard" CS8265N
> plug design, that seems to be what everyone has decided is the way we're
> supposed to do 50A locking plugs.
>
> Anyone have any background on how this happened?
> --
> Christopher Robison
> [email protected]
> http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
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Discussion Starter #3
Chris the plug you are asking about is referred to as a 2 pole 3 wire 50 amp 250 volt twist lock . there are several manufactures that make it you should NOT check online go to your local electrical supply house and ask for it the way I described it and you will be able to get all you want . the trades very rarely use nema numbering system we rely on # of pole ,#of Wires , amperage and voltage . as we are used to mfg's all using different # systems . the main problem with that plug is that it does not make allowances for people who use 125volt systems . HOWEVER a 3 pole 4 wire 50 amp 250 volt twist lock does . the reason I would suggest that no one use a twist lock on a ev. connector is if one drove off without unplugging it will tear up too much on the car and the point of supply .

what is needed is a inlet type connector on the ev and a round non twist lock with strain relief's on the supply side with the strain relief hooked by light duty chain to a secure point so if someone drove off with it connected it would go to the end of the chain and then the chain would pull the connector off BEFORE there is a strain on the supply cord .

hope this helps .
----- Original Message -----
From: Christopher Robison<mailto:[email protected]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 3:17 PM
Subject: [EVDL] What happened to the NEMA L6-50?


I sent this a while back, and never got any response. I'll try one more
time, and then I'll drop it, assuming it's an unsolvable mystery.

I've been looking at plug standards that might be useful for plugging in
EVs and/or making heavy extension cords for the public events we go to.

I've noticed something that has me completely baffled. NEMA has a
designation for an L6-50 plug, though I've looked online and found a lot
of folks (apparently including electrical professionals) claiming there
is no such designation, which is obviously untrue. The design does
exist, and the diagram for it can be viewed here, among plenty of other
places:

http://www.stayonline.com/reference-nema-locking.aspx<http://www.stayonline.com/reference-nema-locking.aspx>

This, one would think, would be the official North American standard for
a 240VAC, 50A locking plug, since NEMA defines those standards.

Problem is, L6-50 devices (plug, connector, inlet) do not seem to exist
in the material world. Apparently no manufacturer produces devices to
this spec. Instead there's this non-NEMA "California standard" CS8265N
plug design, that seems to be what everyone has decided is the way we're
supposed to do 50A locking plugs.

Anyone have any background on how this happened?
--
Christopher Robison
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
http://ohmbre.org<http://ohmbre.org/> <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev<http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev>
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
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Discussion Starter #4
Check with various marinas that supply power to largish boats. The locking
plugs are standard for "ship to shore" power. I was nosing around a marina
surplus (used stuff) store a few months back and they had a 50 ft. 50 amp
cord with what I assume were the L6 connectors on it. It was fairly well
used (though didn't look abused - had a lot more life in it) but was at what
I considered a ridiculously high price at the time. I was looking to cut
off the L6 connectors and put on 14-50 for use with my motorhome (would also
work well for EVs, but overkill for most). I think the marine industry is
where you'll find a lot of the locking connectors you're looking for, but be
willing to pay.

Dave


>From: Christopher Robison <[email protected]>
>Reply-To: [email protected], Electric Vehicle Discussion List
><[email protected]>
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: [EVDL] What happened to the NEMA L6-50?
>Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:17:30 -0500
>
>I sent this a while back, and never got any response. I'll try one more
>time, and then I'll drop it, assuming it's an unsolvable mystery.
>
>I've been looking at plug standards that might be useful for plugging in
>EVs and/or making heavy extension cords for the public events we go to.
>
>I've noticed something that has me completely baffled. NEMA has a
>designation for an L6-50 plug, though I've looked online and found a lot
>of folks (apparently including electrical professionals) claiming there
>is no such designation, which is obviously untrue. The design does
>exist, and the diagram for it can be viewed here, among plenty of other
>places:
>
>http://www.stayonline.com/reference-nema-locking.aspx
>
>This, one would think, would be the official North American standard for
>a 240VAC, 50A locking plug, since NEMA defines those standards.
>
>Problem is, L6-50 devices (plug, connector, inlet) do not seem to exist
>in the material world. Apparently no manufacturer produces devices to
>this spec. Instead there's this non-NEMA "California standard" CS8265N
>plug design, that seems to be what everyone has decided is the way we're
>supposed to do 50A locking plugs.
>
>Anyone have any background on how this happened?
>--
>Christopher Robison
>[email protected]
>http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!
>
>_______________________________________________
>For subscription options, see
>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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Discussion Starter #5
Hello Christopher,

These NEMA designations are assign to the rating and type of connectors and
plugs if manufacturer build them. Some times a design engineer for a large
project will request and put out to bid to build some of these NEMA
designations for special projects.

My correct size plug for my EV is assign a MEMA L14-50, but is not available
yet for general use. I am using a L14-30 heavy duty water tight twist lock
Danual Woodhead plug and connector for over 32 years and it did not blow up
yet. It has large set screws box lugs on it design to fit a 1 inch diameter
with four No. AWG 6 multistranded wire.

I have No. AWG 6 conductor connected to both sides of this plug and going to
a 50 amp circuit breaker. The distance that a 50 amp current would have to
travel in this 30 amp rated plug is about 2 inches. So the design length of
this conductor for that distance is able to handle a 50 amp short circuit,
which has done many times and does not get warm while charging at 45 amps.

Roland






----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Robison" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 2:17 PM
Subject: [EVDL] What happened to the NEMA L6-50?


> I sent this a while back, and never got any response. I'll try one more
> time, and then I'll drop it, assuming it's an unsolvable mystery.
>
> I've been looking at plug standards that might be useful for plugging in
> EVs and/or making heavy extension cords for the public events we go to.
>
> I've noticed something that has me completely baffled. NEMA has a
> designation for an L6-50 plug, though I've looked online and found a lot
> of folks (apparently including electrical professionals) claiming there
> is no such designation, which is obviously untrue. The design does
> exist, and the diagram for it can be viewed here, among plenty of other
> places:
>
> http://www.stayonline.com/reference-nema-locking.aspx
>
> This, one would think, would be the official North American standard for
> a 240VAC, 50A locking plug, since NEMA defines those standards.
>
> Problem is, L6-50 devices (plug, connector, inlet) do not seem to exist
> in the material world. Apparently no manufacturer produces devices to
> this spec. Instead there's this non-NEMA "California standard" CS8265N
> plug design, that seems to be what everyone has decided is the way we're
> supposed to do 50A locking plugs.
>
> Anyone have any background on how this happened?
> --
> Christopher Robison
> [email protected]
> http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
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Discussion Starter #6
On Mon, 2007-10-29 at 22:01 +0000, Dave Davidson wrote:
> Check with various marinas that supply power to largish boats. The locking
> plugs are standard for "ship to shore" power. I was nosing around a marina
> surplus (used stuff) store a few months back and they had a 50 ft. 50 amp
> cord with what I assume were the L6 connectors on it. It was fairly well

All of these are "California standard" plugs and connectors. Marinco is
a major manufacturer of these, especially for the marine industry. Their
products are usually correspondingly expensive. I've seen more
reasonable ones, from Arrow Hart I think(?) although at this size none
of them are cheap.

I have never seen anyone making or selling a true NEMA L6-50 plug.


--
Christopher Robison
[email protected]
http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!

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Discussion Starter #8
Roland Wiench wrote:
> Hello Christopher,
>
> These NEMA designations are assign to the rating and type of connectors and
> plugs if manufacturer build them. Some times a design engineer for a large
> project will request and put out to bid to build some of these NEMA
> designations for special projects.
>
> My correct size plug for my EV is assign a MEMA L14-50, but is not available
> yet for general use. I am using a L14-30 heavy duty water tight twist lock
> Danual Woodhead plug and connector for over 32 years and it did not blow up
> yet. It has large set screws box lugs on it design to fit a 1 inch diameter
> with four No. AWG 6 multistranded wire.

I've seen this in practice as well, most recently with the electrical
service provided by an electrical contractor to the Maker Faire here in
Austin. They were shoving 60 amps through 30A three-phase twistlocks,
which makes it very tempting to ignore the expensive 50A parts
altogether and go with L6-30 plugs and inlets for input to a PFC-50.

Another (more legit) idea is to use standard NEMA 6-50 nonlocking plugs
for 50A charging. So far, I've only found one manufacturer (Cooper) who
makes straight, *round* barrel-shaped 6-50 inlets, plugs and connectors.
Apparently they aren't a common part, as I haven't found them stocked or
for sale anywhere.

If I could get these, then it would be a good solution to the
ripping-out-of-the-car problem with twistlocks, either for the car's
inlet itself, or to add to a short pigtail near the plug end of the
cable, that would pull apart easily if the car is moved. You'd have
about a foot of cord dangling from the car, but this is better than bent
pins from a plug ripped out sideways.

--
Christopher Robison
[email protected]
http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!

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Discussion Starter #9
Travis Gintz wrote:
> here you go:
>
> Connector:
> http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpItmDspRte.jsp?a=b&item=5541
>
> Receptacle:
> http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpItmDspRte.jsp?a=b&item=110506
>
> If you need some help, I work in Applications Engineering at Leviton
> and can direct you to where you need to go. We've got tons and tons of
> connectors for all things from residential to industrial to
> theatrical. Email me personally for contact information.

I'm aware of these products, these and competing products are available
from my local big-box home improvement store.

The problem with these is that there isn't really an inlet available
that will look decent on a car. What is needed is a round straight
connector (not a plug) and a round inlet that it can fit into, somewhere
on the car. It could be placed behind the fuel door or whatever.

Cooper's "Autogrip" parts 5710N, 6709N, and 5710NFI, shown here:

http://64.239.63.88/catalog/pdf/H%2023.pdf

would be exactly what I'm thinking of, in a 6-50 format. They're round,
they're straight, and plugging one in would be immediately familiar due
to their visible similarity to normal household plugs.

If Leviton has any part that resembles these, I'm definitely interested,
possibly to purchase in quantity.


--
Christopher Robison
[email protected]
http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!

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Discussion Starter #10
See my link earlier to Leviton.... we're the manufacturer, and I just
looked at some 6-50R and P's and found them. Cooper makes them as
well. Take a look here:

http://www.leviton.com/
Go to product catalog, navigate to: locking devices and search around.
Or go to straight blade receptacles/plugs/connectors

They've got all sorts of locking and non locking plugs. They even have
a locking 50 and 60 amp connector, just not the L6-50R and P.

Thanks
Travis

On 10/29/07, Christopher Robison <[email protected]> wrote:
>
Roland Wiench wrote:
> > Hello Christopher,
> >
> > These NEMA designations are assign to the rating and type of connectors and
> > plugs if manufacturer build them. Some times a design engineer for a large
> > project will request and put out to bid to build some of these NEMA
> > designations for special projects.
> >
> > My correct size plug for my EV is assign a MEMA L14-50, but is not available
> > yet for general use. I am using a L14-30 heavy duty water tight twist lock
> > Danual Woodhead plug and connector for over 32 years and it did not blow up
> > yet. It has large set screws box lugs on it design to fit a 1 inch diameter
> > with four No. AWG 6 multistranded wire.
>
> I've seen this in practice as well, most recently with the electrical
> service provided by an electrical contractor to the Maker Faire here in
> Austin. They were shoving 60 amps through 30A three-phase twistlocks,
> which makes it very tempting to ignore the expensive 50A parts
> altogether and go with L6-30 plugs and inlets for input to a PFC-50.
>
> Another (more legit) idea is to use standard NEMA 6-50 nonlocking plugs
> for 50A charging. So far, I've only found one manufacturer (Cooper) who
> makes straight, *round* barrel-shaped 6-50 inlets, plugs and connectors.
> Apparently they aren't a common part, as I haven't found them stocked or
> for sale anywhere.
>
> If I could get these, then it would be a good solution to the
> ripping-out-of-the-car problem with twistlocks, either for the car's
> inlet itself, or to add to a short pigtail near the plug end of the
> cable, that would pull apart easily if the car is moved. You'd have
> about a foot of cord dangling from the car, but this is better than bent
> pins from a plug ripped out sideways.
>
> --
> Christopher Robison
> [email protected]
> http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


--
Travis Gintz
1986 Honda VFR AC conversion
Http://blog.evfr.net/

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Discussion Starter #11
So you need a flanged inlet like this:
http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpItmDspRte.jsp?item=3864&section=10957

but with a 50A rating. I'll ask, there might be something hiding out there.

On 10/29/07, Christopher Robison <[email protected]> wrote:
>
Travis Gintz wrote:
> > here you go:
> >
> > Connector:
> > http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpItmDspRte.jsp?a=b&item=5541
> >
> > Receptacle:
> > http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpItmDspRte.jsp?a=b&item=110506
> >
> > If you need some help, I work in Applications Engineering at Leviton
> > and can direct you to where you need to go. We've got tons and tons of
> > connectors for all things from residential to industrial to
> > theatrical. Email me personally for contact information.
>
> I'm aware of these products, these and competing products are available
> from my local big-box home improvement store.
>
> The problem with these is that there isn't really an inlet available
> that will look decent on a car. What is needed is a round straight
> connector (not a plug) and a round inlet that it can fit into, somewhere
> on the car. It could be placed behind the fuel door or whatever.
>
> Cooper's "Autogrip" parts 5710N, 6709N, and 5710NFI, shown here:
>
> http://64.239.63.88/catalog/pdf/H%2023.pdf
>
> would be exactly what I'm thinking of, in a 6-50 format. They're round,
> they're straight, and plugging one in would be immediately familiar due
> to their visible similarity to normal household plugs.
>
> If Leviton has any part that resembles these, I'm definitely interested,
> possibly to purchase in quantity.
>
>
> --
> Christopher Robison
> [email protected]
> http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


--
Travis Gintz
1986 Honda VFR AC conversion
Http://blog.evfr.net/

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Discussion Starter #12
I do not have a problem of ripping out the twist lock plug out of the
receptacle. I am using the heavy super duty nylon connectors that are about
6 inches long that is mounted in a industrial housing made by Power Anderson
which are normally use for a 200 amp receptacle that is bolt to a heavy
steel channel.

This plug uses a set screw box lugs and I use only fine strand wire, in a
cable that is straight line (straight in connection). Before I install a
interlock system, I have pull out the cable right out of the box lugs in the
plug. What happens here as the wires in the cable are pulling out, it
reduces the diameter of the wire inside the box lugs and its slips right
out. I have a large strain relief on the cable, so it does not pull the
wall receptacle.

To prevent this pull out, I install a on board 50 amp AC magnetic contactor
that is held on all the time, while the plug is made. There is a extra power
pole on this contactor, that is normally open while the contactor is close,
this keeps the ignition circuit off. If I lose power, than a indicator on
the dash plates comes showing that the plug is in.

This contactor was normally use as in a ground detection system, so if there
is any rise of voltage that is conducting from any one of the battery
terminals to the chassis ground while charging, then the GFI system will
shut down the AC input power.

Roland


----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Robison" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What happened to the NEMA L6-50?


>
Roland Wiench wrote:
> > Hello Christopher,
> >
> > These NEMA designations are assign to the rating and type of connectors
> > and
> > plugs if manufacturer build them. Some times a design engineer for a
> > large
> > project will request and put out to bid to build some of these NEMA
> > designations for special projects.
> >
> > My correct size plug for my EV is assign a MEMA L14-50, but is not
> > available
> > yet for general use. I am using a L14-30 heavy duty water tight twist
> > lock
> > Danual Woodhead plug and connector for over 32 years and it did not blow
> > up
> > yet. It has large set screws box lugs on it design to fit a 1 inch
> > diameter
> > with four No. AWG 6 multistranded wire.
>
> I've seen this in practice as well, most recently with the electrical
> service provided by an electrical contractor to the Maker Faire here in
> Austin. They were shoving 60 amps through 30A three-phase twistlocks,
> which makes it very tempting to ignore the expensive 50A parts
> altogether and go with L6-30 plugs and inlets for input to a PFC-50.
>
> Another (more legit) idea is to use standard NEMA 6-50 nonlocking plugs
> for 50A charging. So far, I've only found one manufacturer (Cooper) who
> makes straight, *round* barrel-shaped 6-50 inlets, plugs and connectors.
> Apparently they aren't a common part, as I haven't found them stocked or
> for sale anywhere.
>
> If I could get these, then it would be a good solution to the
> ripping-out-of-the-car problem with twistlocks, either for the car's
> inlet itself, or to add to a short pigtail near the plug end of the
> cable, that would pull apart easily if the car is moved. You'd have
> about a foot of cord dangling from the car, but this is better than bent
> pins from a plug ripped out sideways.
>
> --
> Christopher Robison
> [email protected]
> http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
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Discussion Starter #13
Roland Wiench wrote:
> To prevent this pull out, I install a on board 50 amp AC magnetic contactor
> that is held on all the time, while the plug is made. There is a extra power
> pole on this contactor, that is normally open while the contactor is close,
> this keeps the ignition circuit off. If I lose power, than a indicator on
> the dash plates comes showing that the plug is in.

This would work for me, an interlock that prevents the car from starting
with the plug inserted. Building cars for others (as I'm beginning to
do), it may be worthwhile to assume that there may be other reasons why
a car might pull away, and need some kind of break-away plug
arrangement. Like parking on an inclined driveway with a failing
handbrake, or similar. I think a belt-and-suspenders approach may be a
good idea.

--
Christopher Robison
[email protected]
http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!

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Discussion Starter #14
One simple thing that I also use to prevent the EV from rolling down a steep
parking area, is pull out the wheel chocks, that I also carry with me.
Don't like to depend on just the hand brake alone on a steep grade.

I made mine by cutting a piece of 4 x 4's at a 45 degree angle and applying
5 grit sand paper with the glue on it that is use on floor sanding machines
that I got at Home Depot.

I then put a yellow stickee note on the steering wheel to re mind me that I
have it chock.

Roland




----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Robison" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What happened to the NEMA L6-50?


>
Roland Wiench wrote:
> > To prevent this pull out, I install a on board 50 amp AC magnetic
> > contactor
> > that is held on all the time, while the plug is made. There is a extra
> > power
> > pole on this contactor, that is normally open while the contactor is
> > close,
> > this keeps the ignition circuit off. If I lose power, than a indicator
> > on
> > the dash plates comes showing that the plug is in.
>
> This would work for me, an interlock that prevents the car from starting
> with the plug inserted. Building cars for others (as I'm beginning to
> do), it may be worthwhile to assume that there may be other reasons why
> a car might pull away, and need some kind of break-away plug
> arrangement. Like parking on an inclined driveway with a failing
> handbrake, or similar. I think a belt-and-suspenders approach may be a
> good idea.
>
> --
> Christopher Robison
> [email protected]
> http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!
>
> _______________________________________________
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Discussion Starter #15
Roland Wiench wrote:
> One simple thing that I also use to prevent the EV from rolling down a steep
> parking area, is pull out the wheel chocks, that I also carry with me.
> Don't like to depend on just the hand brake alone on a steep grade.
>
> I made mine by cutting a piece of 4 x 4's at a 45 degree angle and applying
> 5 grit sand paper with the glue on it that is use on floor sanding machines
> that I got at Home Depot.
>
> I then put a yellow stickee note on the steering wheel to re mind me that I
> have it chock.
>
> Roland
>

I love your posts, Roland, and I learn a tremendous amount from them.
But this one has me wondering who has more fail-safe/redundancy
features: you or NASA? :)

--Steve

P.S. Re the driving off with the cord plugged in issue, I had actually
thought of suggesting one of those red ribbons that the military and
others use that say "Remove before flight". Your yellow stickee serves
the same purpose here...

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Discussion Starter #16
On 29 Oct 2007 at 17:47, Christopher Robison wrote:

> What is needed is a round straight
> connector (not a plug) and a round inlet that it can fit into, somewhere
> on the car. It could be placed behind the fuel door or whatever.

How about something like this? It's rated 230 volts, 30 amps, and has just
about everything you might want for an EV power inlet. It's sealed against
the elements when not in use, and the contacts are isolated until the plug
is fully seated. It can be set up to automatically eject the plug when you
power up the EV.

http://www.kussmaul.com/091-159.html

No idea of the price, but it's a safety fire/ambulance fitting, so you can
bet it's not cheap.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not
reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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Discussion Starter #17
That looks like a variant of the plugs that are in use
in Europe for high power, you often see them on
construction sites and in factories.

I think the color codes the voltage level.
There are 3-wire, 4-wire and 5-wire variants.
(one phase, 3-phase w/o neutral and 3-phase w neutral)
They always have a ground pin IIRC.
They are held in place with the cover, so it not easy
to disengage when driving away by accident, that is
why this ambulance variant has auto-eject.
(start interlock when power is present is another way)

Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
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-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Roden
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:10 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What happened to the NEMA L6-50?

On 29 Oct 2007 at 17:47, Christopher Robison wrote:

> What is needed is a round straight
> connector (not a plug) and a round inlet that it can fit into,
> somewhere on the car. It could be placed behind the fuel door or whatever.

How about something like this? It's rated 230 volts, 30 amps, and has just about everything you might want for an EV power inlet. It's sealed against the elements when not in use, and the contacts are isolated until the plug is fully seated. It can be set up to automatically eject the plug when you power up the EV.

http://www.kussmaul.com/091-159.html

No idea of the price, but it's a safety fire/ambulance fitting, so you can bet it's not cheap.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


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Discussion Starter #18
Am I reading right that this needs a 12v or 24v (for 120v/230v models)
"operating" input? Take a look at the "ordering" page. Does this mean it
uses power when not in use?

Otherwise, looks like a really nice plug...

Hunter

David Roden wrote:
> On 29 Oct 2007 at 17:47, Christopher Robison wrote:
>
> > What is needed is a round straight
> > connector (not a plug) and a round inlet that it can fit into, somewhere
> > on the car. It could be placed behind the fuel door or whatever.
>
> How about something like this? It's rated 230 volts, 30 amps, and has just
> about everything you might want for an EV power inlet. It's sealed against
> the elements when not in use, and the contacts are isolated until the plug
> is fully seated. It can be set up to automatically eject the plug when you
> power up the EV.
>
> http://www.kussmaul.com/091-159.html
>
> No idea of the price, but it's a safety fire/ambulance fitting, so you can
> bet it's not cheap.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not
> reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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Discussion Starter #19
I get the impression that the 12v or 24v is for the ejection. A solenoid or
small motor drive, I assume. I doubt it is in constant use.

On 10/30/07, Hunter Cook <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Am I reading right that this needs a 12v or 24v (for 120v/230v models)
> "operating" input? Take a look at the "ordering" page. Does this mean it
> uses power when not in use?
>
> Otherwise, looks like a really nice plug...
>
> Hunter
>
>
David Roden wrote:
> > On 29 Oct 2007 at 17:47, Christopher Robison wrote:
> >
> > > What is needed is a round straight
> > > connector (not a plug) and a round inlet that it can fit into,
> somewhere
> > > on the car. It could be placed behind the fuel door or whatever.
> >
> > How about something like this? It's rated 230 volts, 30 amps, and has
> just
> > about everything you might want for an EV power inlet. It's sealed
> against
> > the elements when not in use, and the contacts are isolated until the
> plug
> > is fully seated. It can be set up to automatically eject the plug when
> you
> > power up the EV.
> >
> > http://www.kussmaul.com/091-159.html
> >
> > No idea of the price, but it's a safety fire/ambulance fitting, so you
> can
> > bet it's not cheap.
> >
> > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> > EVDL Administrator
> >
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not
> > reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my
> > email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
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Discussion Starter #20
A control voltage from a ignition source is only activated when turn on, it
then ejects the plug at that time.

In my unit, a AC magnetic contactor, it uses commercial line voltage to hold
the contactor coil on while the plug is in. This is only 0.02 amps for a
240 vac coil. The 12 voltage ignition voltage is only present on one side of
one of the power poles on the contactor and does not power anything at that
time.

Roland


----- Original Message -----
From: "Hunter Cook" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 8:01 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What happened to the NEMA L6-50?


> Am I reading right that this needs a 12v or 24v (for 120v/230v models)
> "operating" input? Take a look at the "ordering" page. Does this mean it
> uses power when not in use?
>
> Otherwise, looks like a really nice plug...
>
> Hunter
>
>
David Roden wrote:
> > On 29 Oct 2007 at 17:47, Christopher Robison wrote:
> >
> > > What is needed is a round straight
> > > connector (not a plug) and a round inlet that it can fit into,
> > > somewhere
> > > on the car. It could be placed behind the fuel door or whatever.
> >
> > How about something like this? It's rated 230 volts, 30 amps, and has
> > just
> > about everything you might want for an EV power inlet. It's sealed
> > against
> > the elements when not in use, and the contacts are isolated until the
> > plug
> > is fully seated. It can be set up to automatically eject the plug when
> > you
> > power up the EV.
> >
> > http://www.kussmaul.com/091-159.html
> >
> > No idea of the price, but it's a safety fire/ambulance fitting, so you
> > can
> > bet it's not cheap.
> >
> > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> > EVDL Administrator
> >
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not
> > reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my
> > email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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