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Discussion Starter #1
Hi All,

I'm trying to figure out what plug I should use for my charger. What does everyone else use? Should I use a twist lock? (I'm reluctant to use a twist lock, as I want it to unplug easily if someone drives away with the car). I'll be using a PFC30 and charging with at most 30 amps and 220 volts. I'll have an adapter for 110 volt charging.

corbin

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Discussion Starter #2
corbin dunn wrote:
> I'm trying to figure out what plug I should use for my charger. What does everyone else use? Should I use a twist lock? (I'm reluctant to use a twist lock, as I want it to unplug easily if someone drives away with the car). I'll be using a PFC30 and charging with at most 30 amps and 220 volts. I'll have an adapter for 110 volt charging.
>
I'd use the straight 4-pin 30/50 amp combo plug from Home Depot[1].
Modify the ground pin so you can plug into any 4-pin 30 or 50 amp
outlet. The combo plug comes with two different ground pins; the
L-shaped one just needs the short part filed off.

Cory

[1] I'm sure everyone carries the same thing

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Discussion Starter #3
I've been using NEMA L6-30 (3 prong twist lock) connectors. Rated
250V/30A, have sat out in the rain, etc, etc.

They WILL come apart if you drive off while plugged in. Has only happened
2 or 3 times, but with no damage to anything (knock on wood). I sometimes
wish I used the 4 prong version so I could run cheap 120VAC accessories
(fans, battery chargers) instead of using a universal input power supply
and 12VDC parts.

The only other downside is cost. I found Hubbell inlets for $5 on eBay,
but standard plugs run ~$20 and the sockets can be $40 or more!

If you plan on opportunity charging, a standard 120V plug is a must. Or at
least an adapter. Then use a Kill-A-Watt or other meter to mark where your
PFC current knob needs to be for a 12-15A draw so you don't pop your
friend's circuit breaker when plugged into 120V.

-Adrian

corbin dunn wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I'm trying to figure out what plug I should use for my charger. What
> does everyone else use? Should I use a twist lock? (I'm reluctant to use
> a twist lock, as I want it to unplug easily if someone drives away with
> the car). I'll be using a PFC30 and charging with at most 30 amps and
> 220 volts. I'll have an adapter for 110 volt charging.
>
> corbin

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Discussion Starter #4
I STRONGLY believe that the cord connection to the car should pull out if
you happened to drive away. This doesn't guarantee that there won't be
damage because you can't guarantee that the cord is at the right angle, but
it helps.

Also, you *should* also design you car so that ti cannot start with the cord
attached. This can be accomplished with microswitches (as already
mentioned) or something as simple as a relay. All new production electric
vehicles will do this.

I am dissappointed that the J1772 connector seems to lock and probably won't
pull out. I'll have to see what it looks like when I get one, and see what
happens the first time I try to drive away with it connected...

-Tyler


Adrian DeLeon <[email protected]> wrote:

> I've been using NEMA L6-30 (3 prong twist lock) connectors. Rated
> 250V/30A, have sat out in the rain, etc, etc.
>
> They WILL come apart if you drive off while plugged in. Has only happened
> 2 or 3 times, but with no damage to anything (knock on wood). I sometimes
> wish I used the 4 prong version so I could run cheap 120VAC accessories
> (fans, battery chargers) instead of using a universal input power supply
> and 12VDC parts.
>
> The only other downside is cost. I found Hubbell inlets for $5 on eBay,
> but standard plugs run ~$20 and the sockets can be $40 or more!
>
> If you plan on opportunity charging, a standard 120V plug is a must. Or at
> least an adapter. Then use a Kill-A-Watt or other meter to mark where your
> PFC current knob needs to be for a 12-15A draw so you don't pop your
> friend's circuit breaker when plugged into 120V.
>
> -Adrian
>
> On Fri, 22 Oct 2010 16:41:52 -0700, corbin dunn wrote:
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I'm trying to figure out what plug I should use for my charger. What
> > does everyone else use? Should I use a twist lock? (I'm reluctant to use
> > a twist lock, as I want it to unplug easily if someone drives away with
> > the car). I'll be using a PFC30 and charging with at most 30 amps and
> > 220 volts. I'll have an adapter for 110 volt charging.
> >
> > corbin
>
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Discussion Starter #5
On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Tyler Marshall
<[email protected]> wrote:
> I am dissappointed that the J1772 connector seems to lock and probably wo=
n't
> pull out. I'll have to see what it looks like when I get one, and see =
what
> happens the first time I try to drive away with it connected...

In short, it is almost impossible to design an affordable removable
connector that can open safely (ground last) with angular forces on it
without damage. What happens when the user damages the connector
(perhaps breaking the often fragile ground) by driving away and never
repairs it because it works fine? Specialty breakaway connectors do
exist, but they are generally inline so that the force is more or less
linear. The cable bends, not the connector. Furthermore a locking
connector also transmits strain from the cable to the housing, not the
pins. People will trip over these cords, kids will yank on them etc..
the connector must be rugged enough to survive this abuse for years.

J1772 is designed to prevent the car from being driven off with the
connector attached. There is a fairly reliable way of detecting the
presence of the handle in the charge port, regardless of whether the
wall equipment or AC power is present. Most manufacturers are beefing
this up a little with sensors on the charge port door or inside the
socket to ensure that even a damaged handle will be detected. (A
handle with a broken pin 5, or a handle not inserted to the point of
locking would not be detected with the methods outlined in J1772.)

Don't rely on the connector disconnecting under load. Design your car
so that it is impossible to drive off with the charge door open. This
is not hard, the easiest and safest method uses standard Normally
closed alarm system magnet switches on the charge door. If the door
is not closed, the switch is not closed. The switch should be
designed so that it is required to supply power to the main contactor,
or utilizes the Zilla's AC Plug in input.

Mark Farver
REVOLT Custom Electric

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Discussion Starter #6
I definitely second Mark's point. DO NOT DRIVE AWAY WITH THE J1772
connector plugged in. If you are forgetful and feel you are going to
potentially drive off with the plug still in the inlet, wire a relay switch
to cut off the controller if the Plug is in. Then you will never have
traction power if the plug is still in.

A cheap way is to use a long cord and drape it over the drivers side window
so that you never can even get in the car if the plug is still in the car.

I just wired up my J1772 Plug and Inlet (minus electronic Pilot signal) into
my EV and a GFCI Circuit Box (for on and off) and the system works great.
Was dumping in 24amps into my pack today and loving the fast charging I was
getting!!! =


If you need the inlet and plug visit
shop.TransAtlanticElectricConversions.com fantastic plug!!!I will try and
upload pictures of my setup to the website soon so that I can reference it
for you.

Sincerely;

Douglas A. Stansfield
President
www.TransAtlanticElectricConversions.com =

973-875-6276 (office)
973-670-9208 (cell)
973-440-1619 (fax)

ELECTRIC CAR PRODUCERS



=


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Mark Farver
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 8:30 PM
To: [email protected]; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What plug do you use?

On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Tyler Marshall
<[email protected]> wrote:
> I am dissappointed that the J1772 connector seems to lock and probably
won't
> pull out. I'll have to see what it looks like when I get one, and see
what
> happens the first time I try to drive away with it connected...

In short, it is almost impossible to design an affordable removable
connector that can open safely (ground last) with angular forces on it
without damage. What happens when the user damages the connector
(perhaps breaking the often fragile ground) by driving away and never
repairs it because it works fine? Specialty breakaway connectors do
exist, but they are generally inline so that the force is more or less
linear. The cable bends, not the connector. Furthermore a locking
connector also transmits strain from the cable to the housing, not the
pins. People will trip over these cords, kids will yank on them etc..
the connector must be rugged enough to survive this abuse for years.

J1772 is designed to prevent the car from being driven off with the
connector attached. There is a fairly reliable way of detecting the
presence of the handle in the charge port, regardless of whether the
wall equipment or AC power is present. Most manufacturers are beefing
this up a little with sensors on the charge port door or inside the
socket to ensure that even a damaged handle will be detected. (A
handle with a broken pin 5, or a handle not inserted to the point of
locking would not be detected with the methods outlined in J1772.)

Don't rely on the connector disconnecting under load. Design your car
so that it is impossible to drive off with the charge door open. This
is not hard, the easiest and safest method uses standard Normally
closed alarm system magnet switches on the charge door. If the door
is not closed, the switch is not closed. The switch should be
designed so that it is required to supply power to the main contactor,
or utilizes the Zilla's AC Plug in input.

Mark Farver
REVOLT Custom Electric

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Discussion Starter #7
Mark Farver wrote:
> It is almost impossible to design an affordable removable
> connector that can open safely (ground last) with angular forces on it
> without damage.

This is only a "hard problem" if you assume it is hard...

An ordinary NEMA 5-15 (the standard household connector) does pretty
good. The ground pin is longer, so it makes first and opens last.

If plug and receptacle are both on leads, they automatically move when
you pull so they pull apart in-line. Common examples: An electric
lawnmower or electric drill. They have very short cords (less than 12"),
so you plug them in with an extension cord. If you reach too far, it
harmlessly unpluges itself.

My own EV has a 6" cord with a male plug coming out the front grille. I
plug it in with an extension cord. No matter what way I tried to drive
off, it would unplug itself safely.

> People will trip over these cords, kids will yank on them etc..
> the connector must be rugged enough to survive this abuse for years.

If it locks, it *will* trip you. If it simply pulls free, you don't get
tripped.

People "will" yank on the cord to unplug it. They're used to doing this
with virtually every other kind of connector. If it's locked, then
they're applying a huge force to the cord, which makes it *more* likely
to break wires.

> J1772 is designed to prevent the car from being driven off with the
> connector attached.

This is still a good idea, even if the connector doesn't lock.

One more thing. You don't need to "drive off" to make a car move. The
car might simply be left in neutral, and rolls away (especially if on a
hill).

Here in Wintersota, we also have frequent cases of parking a car on ice
in the morning, that melts in the afternoon. The transmission is in
Park, the parking brake is on, and the car *still* slides away when the
ice under its tires melts!

> (A handle with a broken pin 5, or a handle not inserted to the
> point of locking would not be detected with the methods outlined
> in J1772.)

...but it sounds like they flubbed the design.

> Don't rely on the connector disconnecting under load.

Good advice. Most connectors sustain some damage from arcing if
disconnected under load.

--
Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen

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Discussion Starter #8
Tyler Marshall wrote:

> I STRONGLY believe that the cord connection to the car should
> pull out if you happened to drive away.

Most cords have two ends; why is it so important that the car end pull free?

> Also, you *should* also design you car so that ti cannot
> start with the cord attached. This can be accomplished with
> microswitches (as already
> mentioned) or something as simple as a relay. All new
> production electric vehicles will do this.
>
> I am dissappointed that the J1772 connector seems to lock and
> probably won't pull out. I'll have to see what it looks like
> when I get one, and see what happens the first time I try to
> drive away with it connected...

So you don't plan to follow your own design guideline with respect to preventing the car from driving with the cord attached? ;^>

As I recall, NEC Article 625 requires that EVSE cords include a breakaway provision that will ensure power is interrupted prior to the connector separating (and may allow for safe disconnection of the cord from the fixed EVSE equipment).

Consider that even thhough the fuel nozzle on a gas pump hose doesn't latch to the filler on a gas car, the fuel pumps do not rely on the nozzle pulling free in the event of a drive away. Instead, the hose includes a breakaway provision near the pump end of the hose.

I think incorporating a break away device in the charge cord (something as simple as an inline NEMA 5-15 connector set such as Lee describes) will ensure safer and more reliable disconnection during a driveaway than worrying about locking vs non-locking connectors at either end of the cord.

Cheers,

Roger.

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Discussion Starter #9
Roger,

Yeah, it doesn't matter where it breaks free. If it becomes a problem with
the J1772, I imagine that they will eventually add an inline breakaway.

I was imagining an NEMA 14-50 on the 240V outlet in the garage. There is
little chance that that would break away without damage, but I've had the
standard 5-15 break away many times from a block heater.

Maybe I'm just trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist...

-Tyler


Roger Stockton <[email protected]>wrote:

>
> Most cords have two ends; why is it so important that the car end pull
> free?
>
>
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Discussion Starter #10
The car end needs to pull free because if it pulls free from the wall and drags soon the car will run over the cord. That will then pull it free from the car even if it means breaking something.




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Discussion Starter #11
I have often wondered if the 1955/56 Cadillac wasn't setting a good
example by putting the fuel filler in the rear under a tail light (56 Chevy
did it too). it was high and easy to reach on that tall tail fin, and
assessable from the back or side for convenience. Quite a bit better than
the 1960's GM products that put the fuel filler behind the license plate
where gas would splash out if you didn't affix the cap properly.[thru the
'60 s] still, why not put your charging inlet behind the license plate in
rear or front? just mount plate with 2 spring equipped screen door hinges..
If you are as forgetfull as I am or your charging on a sloping driveway
put a 2x4 a foot long in front of the wheel and if is your driveway drive
two anchors thru it into the pavement so it stays there and you unplug, get
in and just drive over it. so it is always there for you.
Another play one of my friends used was to buy a Mylar aluminized
balloon for every Holiday. then he tied the string to his plug at the car
end in his garage, jump in the car and check the mirror before driving off
and there is the balloon waving "Hi, Dummy, I'm still here !" as a reminder
he could see.
Personally, I do not like the J1772 latch, so I carry some cheep cable
ties in my console and put one on the latch button so it is not latched in
my use. the Pilot pin is shortest so the 240vac is cut before the connection
breaks completely.
"There are Always Alternatives"...
Regards,
Dennis Miles
============================================================
David Dymaxion <[email protected]>wrote:

> The car end needs to pull free because if it pulls free from the wall and
> drags soon the car will run over the cord. That will then pull it free from
> the car even if it means breaking something.
>
>
>
>
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--
Regards,
*Dennis Lee Miles* (Director) *E.V.T.I. inc*.
*www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM <http://www.e-v-t-i-inc.com/> *(Adviser)*
EVTI-EVAEducation Chapter
*
Phone (813) ID4 - E V T I or (813) 434 - 3884 (I think word phone
numbers can be fun and good mnemonics aid memory.)
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Discussion Starter #12
To Roger Stockton,
The J1772 cable has a connector at the car; the other end is fastened
securely and wired directly into to the $3,000 "Charging Outlet" box and if
you pull that box end loose they will be very upset with you.
Regards,
Dennis Miles
========================================================

Roger Stockton <[email protected]>wrote:

> Tyler Marshall wrote:
>
> > I STRONGLY believe that the cord connection to the car should
> > pull out if you happened to drive away.
>
> Most cords have two ends; why is it so important that the car end pull
> free?
>
> > Also, you *should* also design you car so that ti cannot
> > start with the cord attached. This can be accomplished with
> > microswitches (as already
> > mentioned) or something as simple as a relay. All new
> > production electric vehicles will do this.
> >
> > I am dissappointed that the J1772 connector seems to lock and
> > probably won't pull out. I'll have to see what it looks like
> > when I get one, and see what happens the first time I try to
> > drive away with it connected...
>
> So you don't plan to follow your own design guideline with respect to
> preventing the car from driving with the cord attached? ;^>
>
> As I recall, NEC Article 625 requires that EVSE cords include a breakaway
> provision that will ensure power is interrupted prior to the connector
> separating (and may allow for safe disconnection of the cord from the fixed
> EVSE equipment).
>
> Consider that even thhough the fuel nozzle on a gas pump hose doesn't latch
> to the filler on a gas car, the fuel pumps do not rely on the nozzle pulling
> free in the event of a drive away. Instead, the hose includes a breakaway
> provision near the pump end of the hose.
>
> I think incorporating a break away device in the charge cord (something as
> simple as an inline NEMA 5-15 connector set such as Lee describes) will
> ensure safer and more reliable disconnection during a driveaway than
> worrying about locking vs non-locking connectors at either end of the cord.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
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>



--
Regards,
*Dennis Lee Miles* (Director) *E.V.T.I. inc*.
*www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM <http://www.e-v-t-i-inc.com/> *(Adviser)*
EVTI-EVAEducation Chapter
*
Phone (813) ID4 - E V T I or (813) 434 - 3884 (I think word phone
numbers can be fun and good mnemonics aid memory.)
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Discussion Starter #13
Dennis Miles <[email protected]> wrote:
> Personally, I do not like the J1772 latch, so I carry some cheep =
cable
> ties in my console and put one on the latch button so it is not latched in
> my use. the Pilot pin is shortest so the 240vac is cut before the connect=
ion
> breaks completely.

That is a violation of the spec, though the wall equipment is not
required to test for this case. The Latch switch and resistor are
inside the handle and tied to pin 5. The car is not suppose to draw
power, and is suppose to stop drawing power within a short period of
time (100ms?) if the pin 5 cord present circuit is interrupted. You
should not be charging with an unlatched connector. J1772 connectors
are tested and UL certified while locked, if you leave them unlocked
you risk damaging or overheating the connection.

-- =

Mark Farver
REVOLT Custom Electric Vehicles
Austin, TX
Parts store now open: http://www.revoltevc.com/

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Discussion Starter #14
This is exactly what I did back in 1976, was to put the main AC plug and
connector behind the hinge license plate holder that is mounted on the rear.
Still using it today and pull out the plug about four times with no damage
to the plug.

The plug I am using is a large 50 amp Danial Woodhead 4 pole, 4 wire twist
lock. The connector (not a receptacle) is install in a cast aluminum
housing made by the Power Anderson Company. You can make one by take a
piece of 6 inch long by 4 inch ID conduit and weld a closer plate on one end
with a 1.25 hole in it. The other end has a square 5.5 inch plate with a
4.5 inch hole which is welded to the 4 inch conduit.

This square plate has four mounting holes for bolting on a hinge aluminum 2
gang plate made by the Bell Company. These weather tight plates have a
gasket that is design enclose a 2-gang device that ranges from 30 to 50 amp.

The Danial Woodhead connector and plug is normally a inline device for
connecting two power cords together that can lay directly on wet ground.
The connector is fasten in side the aluminum housing by inserter the
threaded part of the cable gland connector, through the 1-1/4 hole and then
tighten up the large cable nut.

This type of connector or similar type have large set screw box connectors
where the cable wires insert straight in. The maximum torque on the set
screws are about 100 inch lbs. On the plug side there is also a cable gland
nut that has a taper rubber insert that I grease up with a GE electrical
compound that you can get a large tube from any motor shop. Hand tighten
this cable nut only.

When the connector and plug is connected together, the connector has a
overlapping nylon cover that goes over the plug which I also grease up with
the GE compound.

Now to test out the pull out without disconnecting the plug. When the plug
is plug in the cord is laying just over the top of the bumper and wraps down
and than forward for 20 feet to a power receptacle. This length leaves
enough slack, so when I move the EV in reverse, the bumper pulls out the
cable out of the cable grand nut and the box lug connectors. When this
happens the circuit breaker turns off, so there is no live wires at the end
of the cord.

I have not pull the cable out since 2002, because I place the bright yellow
plug on a holder on the right side of the passenger side of the EV. I
always when backing out of the garage, the plug is exactly in the line of
sight of the side mirrors.

Also what helps, is a 120 V neon pilot light on the dash of the EV that
comes on when the plug is in. My plug being a 4 wire which has a neutral,
ground, and two feeder lines also provides 120 volts circuits for
pre-heating the heaters and also run blower fans and pumps which I can run
using a transfer switch to test out these circuits which also have these 120
V indicator lights.

Roland



----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Miles" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 12:10 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What plug do you use?


I have often wondered if the 1955/56 Cadillac wasn't setting a good
example by putting the fuel filler in the rear under a tail light (56 Chevy
did it too). it was high and easy to reach on that tall tail fin, and
assessable from the back or side for convenience. Quite a bit better than
the 1960's GM products that put the fuel filler behind the license plate
where gas would splash out if you didn't affix the cap properly.[thru the
'60 s] still, why not put your charging inlet behind the license plate in
rear or front? just mount plate with 2 spring equipped screen door hinges..
If you are as forgetfull as I am or your charging on a sloping driveway
put a 2x4 a foot long in front of the wheel and if is your driveway drive
two anchors thru it into the pavement so it stays there and you unplug, get
in and just drive over it. so it is always there for you.
Another play one of my friends used was to buy a Mylar aluminized
balloon for every Holiday. then he tied the string to his plug at the car
end in his garage, jump in the car and check the mirror before driving off
and there is the balloon waving "Hi, Dummy, I'm still here !" as a reminder
he could see.
Personally, I do not like the J1772 latch, so I carry some cheep cable
ties in my console and put one on the latch button so it is not latched in
my use. the Pilot pin is shortest so the 240vac is cut before the connection
breaks completely.
"There are Always Alternatives"...
Regards,
Dennis Miles

============================================================

On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 1:20 AM, David Dymaxion
<[email protected]>wrote:

The car end needs to pull free because if it pulls free from the wall and
drags soon the car will run over the cord. That will then pull it free from
the car even if it means breaking something.

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Discussion Starter #15
David Dymaxion wrote:

> The car end needs to pull free because if it pulls free from
> the wall and drags soon the car will run over the cord. That
> will then pull it free from the car even if it means breaking
> something.

Are you sure? ;^>

The cord is attached to the car, and so is the wheel, so they are not moving relative to each other and it is unlikely that the wheel can pull the cord free of the car simply by rolling over it. You'd probably have to be spinning the wheel as it runs over the cord.

I'm personally only concerned with the safety aspect; as long as either end of the cord separates without leaving live conductors exposed I'm happy. As far as I'm concerned, the cost of replacing any bits that break serves as an incentive to be more careful in future ;^>

Cheers,

Roger.

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Discussion Starter #16
Lee Hart <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 10/28/2010 9:07 AM, Mark Farver wrote:
>> That is a violation of the spec...
>
> ...which end users don't read and don't care about. :) It will happen.
> Like people who buckle the seat belts on the empty seats to get rid of
> the warning lights or buzzers.

I'll grant that users do have a nasty habit of working around designed
in safety features, though in this case I suspect the SAE never
considered that people would be building their own car side adapters.

>> The car supposed to stop drawing power within a short period of
>> time (100ms?) if the pin 5 cord present circuit is interrupted.

I can't recall the exact spec, it might have been the car has 30ms to
stop drawing power and the wall has 100ms to drop out the AC power
contactor.

> On the charging connector I did, I used an Anderson connector with a

Interestingly the Telsa wall unit has an anderson connector inside the
unit that is used as a breakaway. The cord has a seperate anderson
for groun, and a 4 inch loop of wire on the ground ensures it pulls
out last. IIRC the cordset also had a steal cable connected to an
internal breaker. Driving away (even though the electroncis are
designed to prevent that) causes the breaker to be turned off, the hot
lead anderson to open and finally the ground anderson. I'm not sure
how well it would work in practice.

--
Mark Farver
REVOLT Custom Electric Vehicles
Austin, TX
Parts store now open: http://www.revoltevc.com/

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Discussion Starter #17
David Dymaxion,
There is a lot of tension generated if you back over a wire! I was puling
with a chain and it came undone at the load, in backing up to reconnect I
backed over the two inch logging chain and pinching it between the tire and
the pavement resulting in a link of the chain snapping and opening up.
Fortunately I had hooked it to a STRONG frame mounted hitch because I am
sure it would have bent the steel step bumper.
Regards,
Dennis Miles
=======================================================
Roger Stockton <[email protected]>wrote:

> David Dymaxion wrote:
>
> > The car end needs to pull free because if it pulls free from
> > the wall and drags soon the car will run over the cord. That
> > will then pull it free from the car even if it means breaking
> > something.
>
> Are you sure? ;^>
>
> The cord is attached to the car, and so is the wheel, so they are not
> moving relative to each other and it is unlikely that the wheel can pull the
> cord free of the car simply by rolling over it. You'd probably have to be
> spinning the wheel as it runs over the cord.
>
> I'm personally only concerned with the safety aspect; as long as either end
> of the cord separates without leaving live conductors exposed I'm happy. As
> far as I'm concerned, the cost of replacing any bits that break serves as an
> incentive to be more careful in future ;^>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
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>



--
Regards,
*Dennis Lee Miles* (Director) *E.V.T.I. inc*.
*www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM <http://www.e-v-t-i-inc.com/> *(Adviser)*
EVTI-EVAEducation Chapter
*
Phone (813) ID4 - E V T I or (813) 434 - 3884 (I think word phone
numbers can be fun and good mnemonics aid memory.)
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Discussion Starter #18
It's a little subtle. The middle of your wheel doesn't not move relative to the
car, but the bottom does. The bottom of your wheel is at ground speed unless you
are skidding. If a tire runs over the cord, that part of the cord is locked to
the ground, while the other end of the cord is firmly attached to the moving
vehicle. If the cord is sideways and you have enough slack, the car will roll
off the cord. If the cord is inline with the wheel, you'll keep running over
more and more cord until the slack is taken up and it breaks -- it's just as bad
as if the cord had been tied to a fence. You really want the car end to unplug.
As you say, a destructive tearing out of the wiring might leave high voltage
conductors exposed.




________________________________
From: Roger Stockton <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Thu, October 28, 2010 9:39:53 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What plug do you use?

David Dymaxion wrote:

> The car end needs to pull free because if it pulls free from
> the wall and drags soon the car will run over the cord. That
> will then pull it free from the car even if it means breaking
> something.

Are you sure? ;^>

The cord is attached to the car, and so is the wheel, so they are not moving
relative to each other and it is unlikely that the wheel can pull the cord free
of the car simply by rolling over it. You'd probably have to be spinning the
wheel as it runs over the cord.

I'm personally only concerned with the safety aspect; as long as either end of
the cord separates without leaving live conductors exposed I'm happy. As far as
I'm concerned, the cost of replacing any bits that break serves as an incentive
to be more careful in future ;^>



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Discussion Starter #19
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Discussion Starter #20
Dennis Miles wrote:

> The J1772 cable has a connector at the car; the other
> end is fastened securely and wired directly into to the
> $3,000 "Charging Outlet" box and if you pull that box end
> loose they will be very upset with you.

Please read what I wrote about EVSE complying with NEC Article 625.

>From the 1999 revision of the Article:

"625-19. Automatic De-energization of Cable. The electric vehicle supply equipment or the cable connector combination of the equipment shall be provided with an automatic means to de-energize the cable conductors and electric vehicle connector upon exposure to strain that could result in either cable rupture or separation of the cable from the electric connector and exposure of live parts. Automatic means to de-energize the cable conductors and electric vehicle connector shall not be required for portable cord- and plug-connected electric vehicle supply equipment intended for connection to receptacle outlets rated at 115 volts, single phase, 15 and 20 amperes."

While this does not specifically require that the cable break away from the EVSE, it does confirm that the regulators and equipment makers are both fully aware that the vehicle may move relative to the EVSE while the cord is connected, and that the equipment must be designed to safely endure this sort of event.

I suggest that you do not purchase an EVSE that is not designed to survive a driveaway without a costly repair, if you are a forgetful sort of person. People responsible for purchasing charging stations for public use will quickly learn to avoid models that prove more costly to maintain...

Cheers,

Roger.

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