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Discussion Starter #1
Hi Folks,

Since I need to replace my DC cables, I want to take this opportunity to
ask the group for their advice. I've heard suggestions of using marine
cable rated to 600V, but I'm not sure of the sizing.

My car uses 370V, with a max of 170A.

Thanks in advance!
Peter
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Peter C. Thompson*
*Qualcomm, Incorporated.* Office: +1 (858) 658-1936 Mobile: +1
(858) 692-3571
AIM: PThompson509 Yahoo!:peter_thompson MSN:
[email protected] Skype: PThompson509

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Discussion Starter #2
I would suggest polarwire. It's rated to 600V, wide temperature rating
(-55C to 105C), and you can order it directly from them for sometimes less
cost than welding wire.

Z

http://www.polarwire.com/

Peter C. Thompson <[email protected]>wrote:

> Hi Folks,
>
> Since I need to replace my DC cables, I want to take this opportunity to
> ask the group for their advice. I've heard suggestions of using marine
> cable rated to 600V, but I'm not sure of the sizing.
>
> My car uses 370V, with a max of 170A.
>
> Thanks in advance!
> Peter
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Peter C. Thompson*
> *Qualcomm, Incorporated.* Office: +1 (858) 658-1936 Mobile: +1
> (858) 692-3571
> AIM: PThompson509 Yahoo!:peter_thompson MSN:
> [email protected] Skype: PThompson509
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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>
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Discussion Starter #3
Hello Peter,

The ampere rating depends on the length of the run, the temperature rating
of the conductor, if it's a single conductor in air, in a conduit or
raceway.

Use the 600 volt rated conductor which can be purchase at a welding supply
company. The size of the conductor should at least be 1.25 percent of the
actual ampere that the conductor will use.

In your case 170 amps x 1.25 = 212.5 amp rating conductor.

A copper wire conductor with a 90 C temperature rating in the 2/0 size is
good for 215 amp that is bundle in a conduit. Now the length of run will
depend on the voltage drop you want. The maximum voltage drop should not be
over 3 percent or 370V x 0.03 = 11.1 volts.

A 2/0 wire has 0.08712 ohms per 1000 feet at 50 C. Lets say you wire run
from the battery including the links and from the controller to the motor in
25 feet or 50 feet for a circuit path, then:

0.08712/1000 = 0.00008712 ohms

VD = 0.00008712 x 370V = 3.22 volts

The volt drop of 3.22 volts is less than 11.1 volts or 3 percent, so a 2/0
wire rated at 50 C at 215 amps will be ok.

Roland


----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter C. Thompson" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 8:23 AM
Subject: [EVDL] What size cable to use?


> Hi Folks,
>
> Since I need to replace my DC cables, I want to take this opportunity to
> ask the group for their advice. I've heard suggestions of using marine
> cable rated to 600V, but I'm not sure of the sizing.
>
> My car uses 370V, with a max of 170A.
>
> Thanks in advance!
> Peter
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Peter C. Thompson*
> *Qualcomm, Incorporated.* Office: +1 (858) 658-1936 Mobile: +1
> (858) 692-3571
> AIM: PThompson509 Yahoo!:peter_thompson MSN:
> [email protected] Skype: PThompson509
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks Zeke,

Nice looking wire, great specs.

I'm still looking for a recommendation for the wire size, though. I
*think* 2 gauge would be ok, but perhaps 2/0 would be better?

Thoughts?

P.S. Resent in plain text. sorry.

On 10/13/2010 8:58 AM, Zeke Yewdall wrote:
> I would suggest polarwire. It's rated to 600V, wide temperature rating
> (-55C to 105C), and you can order it directly from them for sometimes less
> cost than welding wire.
>
> Z
>
> http://www.polarwire.com/
>
>
Peter C. Thompson<[email protected]>wrote:
>
>> Hi Folks,
>>
>> Since I need to replace my DC cables, I want to take this opportunity to
>> ask the group for their advice. I've heard suggestions of using marine
>> cable rated to 600V, but I'm not sure of the sizing.
>>
>> My car uses 370V, with a max of 170A.
>>
>> Thanks in advance!
>> Peter
>> --
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *Peter C. Thompson*
>> *Qualcomm, Incorporated.* Office: +1 (858) 658-1936 Mobile: +1
>> (858) 692-3571
>> AIM: PThompson509 Yahoo!:peter_thompson MSN:
>> [email protected] Skype: PThompson509
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> | REPLYING: address your message [email protected] only.
>> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
>> | UNSUBSCRIBE:http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> | OTHER HELP:http://evdl.org/help/
>> | OPTIONS:http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
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--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Peter C. Thompson*
*Qualcomm, Incorporated.* Office: +1 (858) 658-1936 Mobile: +1
(858) 692-3571
AIM: PThompson509 Yahoo!:peter_thompson MSN:
[email protected] Skype: PThompson509

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Discussion Starter #5
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Discussion Starter #6
Another lower cost source is Waytek
www.waytekwire.com

http://order.waytekwire.com/products2/M50/360/350/400/1/1/0%20Welding%20Cable/Welding%20Cable-%20Class%20K/Wire%20And%20Cable/


About $1 a foot cheaper than Polarwire.


----- Original Message ----
From: Zeke Yewdall <[email protected]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Wed, October 13, 2010 11:58:28 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What size cable to use?

I would suggest polarwire. It's rated to 600V, wide temperature rating
(-55C to 105C), and you can order it directly from them for sometimes less
cost than welding wire.

Z

http://www.polarwire.com/

Peter C. Thompson <[email protected]>wrote:

> Hi Folks,
>
> Since I need to replace my DC cables, I want to take this opportunity to
> ask the group for their advice. I've heard suggestions of using marine
> cable rated to 600V, but I'm not sure of the sizing.
>
> My car uses 370V, with a max of 170A.
>
> Thanks in advance!
> Peter
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Peter C. Thompson*
> *Qualcomm, Incorporated.* Office: +1 (858) 658-1936 Mobile: +1
> (858) 692-3571
> AIM: PThompson509 Yahoo!:peter_thompson MSN:
> [email protected] Skype: PThompson509
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
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Discussion Starter #7
I am going with 2/0 for a 96V, 550A (peak battery amps) controller on my
EV... normally I'd go for 4/0 for that kind of current, but since average
will be less (or I'll melt either the motor or the controller :) I am going
with 2/0 with 105C insulation (and ambient temps rarely above 25 to 30C).

Z

Jeff Major <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> --- On Wed, 10/13/10, Roland Wiench <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > A 2/0 wire has 0.08712 ohms per 1000 feet at 50 C.
> > Lets say you wire run
> > from the battery including the links and from the
> > controller to the motor in
> > 25 feet or 50 feet for a circuit path, then:
> >
> > 0.08712/1000 = 0.00008712 ohms
> >
> > VD = 0.00008712 x 370V = 3.22 volts
> >
> > The volt drop of 3.22 volts is less than 11.1 volts or 3
> > percent, so a 2/0
> > wire rated at 50 C at 215 amps will be ok.
> >
> > Roland
> >
> Hi Roland,
>
> Hate to be picky, but V = I * R. 0.00008712 Ohms/ft * 50 ft = 0.004356
> Ohms. 0.004356 Ohms * 170 A = 0.74052 V
>
> Personally I feel 2/0 is overkill. But bigger is better, right? More
> weight and more cost and harder to route. But WTH. Me, I'd go with 1/0 or
> even #1. The 170 A is likely not a continuous current draw. That would be
> like 50 or 60 kW. Even if he had his EV somewhere he was using this much
> sustained power, his battery pack would drain in 10 to 20 minutes. Not to
> mention: Can his motor do this for this long?
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff M
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Discussion Starter #8
Has anyone run their cables inside of conduit for EMI? (I'm thinking of
longer ones, like from the bed of the truck to the engine compartment). I'm
thinking of using EMT conduit around each cable, but am not sure if this
would be better...or worse (because of isolating the two cables from each
other). In my case, I have nice straight frame rails on the truck that make
is very easy to run a 10 foot piece of EMT conduit for each cable... I know
this is not so easy on many vehicles, especially unibody ones.

Z

Bill Dube <[email protected]> wrote:

> I agree 100% with Jeff on this. I would suggest #1 or #1/0 as well.
>
> Welding cable works excellently for this application and is reasonably
> priced.
>
> Remember to keep the cables closely paired to suppress EMI. Makes it
> possible to listen to the radio, and keeps the other car electronics
> happier.
>
> Bill D.
>
> At 11:53 AM 10/13/2010, you wrote:
>
> >Hi Roland,
> >
> >Hate to be picky, but V = I * R. 0.00008712 Ohms/ft * 50 ft =
> >0.004356 Ohms. 0.004356 Ohms * 170 A = 0.74052 V
> >
> >Personally I feel 2/0 is overkill. But bigger is better,
> >right? More weight and more cost and harder to route. But
> >WTH. Me, I'd go with 1/0 or even #1. The 170 A is likely not a
> >continuous current draw. That would be like 50 or 60 kW. Even if
> >he had his EV somewhere he was using this much sustained power, his
> >battery pack would drain in 10 to 20 minutes. Not to mention: Can
> >his motor do this for this long?
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Jeff M
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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>
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Discussion Starter #9
It depends on what other ratings the welding cable also has... some welding
cable is not rated for that, it's true. Some is also rated 600V and 90C.
I'm not sure about UV rating for any of it, even the fancy polarwire stuff
I'm using... how much UV is under the car's hood? Some bouncing around, but
not direct sunlight (we hope...)

Z

Mark Grasser <[email protected]>wrote:

> Welding cable DOES NOT work for this application! It has NO UV protection
> what-so-ever!! No high voltage and no high temp!!! Cheap way to go but NOT
> AT ALL SAFE!
>
> Mark Grasser
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf
> Of Bill Dube
> Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 2:16 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] What size cable to use?
>
> I agree 100% with Jeff on this. I would suggest #1 or #1/0 as well.
>
> Welding cable works excellently for this application and is reasonably
> priced.
>
> Remember to keep the cables closely paired to suppress EMI. Makes it
> possible to listen to the radio, and keeps the other car electronics
> happier.
>
> Bill D.
>
> At 11:53 AM 10/13/2010, you wrote:
>
> >Hi Roland,
> >
> >Hate to be picky, but V = I * R. 0.00008712 Ohms/ft * 50 ft =
> >0.004356 Ohms. 0.004356 Ohms * 170 A = 0.74052 V
> >
> >Personally I feel 2/0 is overkill. But bigger is better,
> >right? More weight and more cost and harder to route. But
> >WTH. Me, I'd go with 1/0 or even #1. The 170 A is likely not a
> >continuous current draw. That would be like 50 or 60 kW. Even if
> >he had his EV somewhere he was using this much sustained power, his
> >battery pack would drain in 10 to 20 minutes. Not to mention: Can
> >his motor do this for this long?
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Jeff M
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
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>
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Discussion Starter #10
If you run the cables in a conduit, make sure the wires only fill it 60
percent. Also you have to de-rate the ampere rating by 20 percent.

Roland


----- Original Message -----
From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 11:26 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What size cable to use?


> Has anyone run their cables inside of conduit for EMI? (I'm thinking of
> longer ones, like from the bed of the truck to the engine compartment).
> I'm
> thinking of using EMT conduit around each cable, but am not sure if this
> would be better...or worse (because of isolating the two cables from each
> other). In my case, I have nice straight frame rails on the truck that
> make
> is very easy to run a 10 foot piece of EMT conduit for each cable... I
> know
> this is not so easy on many vehicles, especially unibody ones.
>
> Z
>
> On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 12:16 PM, Bill Dube <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > I agree 100% with Jeff on this. I would suggest #1 or #1/0 as well.
> >
> > Welding cable works excellently for this application and is reasonably
> > priced.
> >
> > Remember to keep the cables closely paired to suppress EMI. Makes it
> > possible to listen to the radio, and keeps the other car electronics
> > happier.
> >
> > Bill D.
> >
> > At 11:53 AM 10/13/2010, you wrote:
> >
> > >Hi Roland,
> > >
> > >Hate to be picky, but V = I * R. 0.00008712 Ohms/ft * 50 ft =
> > >0.004356 Ohms. 0.004356 Ohms * 170 A = 0.74052 V
> > >
> > >Personally I feel 2/0 is overkill. But bigger is better,
> > >right? More weight and more cost and harder to route. But
> > >WTH. Me, I'd go with 1/0 or even #1. The 170 A is likely not a
> > >continuous current draw. That would be like 50 or 60 kW. Even if
> > >he had his EV somewhere he was using this much sustained power, his
> > >battery pack would drain in 10 to 20 minutes. Not to mention: Can
> > >his motor do this for this long?
> > >
> > >Regards,
> > >
> > >Jeff M
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
> > | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
> > | UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > | OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
> > | OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
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Discussion Starter #11
That's sort of what I though... keep them together. I'm not sure what the
DC waveform will be, since I'm not running a PWM controller... a three phase
inverter instead. In theory, three phase should be uniform power, and thus
uniform DC draw, but it depends on how that inverter is synthesizing the AC
three phase...

Z

Jeff Major <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> --- On Wed, 10/13/10, Zeke Yewdall <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Has anyone run their cables inside of
> > conduit for EMI? (I'm thinking of
> > longer ones, like from the bed of the truck to the engine
> > compartment). I'm
> > thinking of using EMT conduit around each cable, but am not
> > sure if this
> > would be better...or worse (because of isolating the two
> > cables from each
> > other). In my case, I have nice straight frame rails
> > on the truck that make
> > is very easy to run a 10 foot piece of EMT conduit for each
> > cable... I know
> > this is not so easy on many vehicles, especially unibody
> > ones.
> >
> > Z
> >
> Hi Z,
>
> You should keep the positive and negative cables together inside the same
> metal conduit. This keeps the RFI down. And another thing is that putting
> a conductive (metal) path around a conductor with a changing current flowing
> thru it will induce currents in that conductive path. Running both the pos
> and neg cables inside the same conduit cancels this effect. But the
> changing (pulsing) current from the PWM in a single conductor surrounded by
> a metal conduit may result in circulating currents in the conduit causing
> heat. Also, those circulating currents in the conduit will establish their
> own magnetic fields which will oppose the change in current in the conductor
> itself. Something you really don't want on the battery side of the
> controller.
>
> I use flexible watertight metal conduit for power runs on commercial
> hybrids. On the DC runs, always pos and neg together. On the AC runs, all
> three phases together.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff M
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
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>
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Discussion Starter #12
>
> Has always worked for me.
>
> "This class K welding cable is made for flexibility with multiple, fine
> copper strands and a neoprene outer jacket. It is rated to 600V with a -40C
> to +90C temp range."
>
> From:
> http://order.waytekwire.com/productdetail2/M50/WC0-0-100/WELDING%20CABLE%201/0%20BLACK%20100%20FT/
>
> I was going to say I have some installed for 20 years. But that predates
> Waytek, so I am not sure what the old stuff was. I think it was welding
> cable. Although back then I did use some battery cable and some locomotive
> cable.
>
> Not sure of the need for UV rated cable in your EV. And would recommend
> periodic inspection of all the wiring in your EV.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff M
>

Is that price per foot and a min. of 100ft ?
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Discussion Starter #13
Ebay is the place to buy a 100 ft reel. That is where I get it
typically if I need more than a few feet.

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Discussion Starter #14
>>> http://order.waytekwire.com/productdetail2/M50/WC0-0-100/WELDING%20CABLE%201/0%20BLACK%20100%20FT/
>> Is that price per foot and a min. of 100ft ?

Jeff Major wrote:
> Appears so. There is also this note on the page:
> PLEASE CALL SALES WITH ANY REQUESTS FOR NON-STANDARD QUANTITY PUT-UPS.
> So I think they will sell less than 100'.

Waytek is local for me (sort of... about 60 miles away). I've been
there; and yes, they will sell any length you want. In the store itself,
they often have partial rolls on sale as well. I'm not sure how you
could find these on-line, but you could call and ask.
--
Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen

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Discussion Starter #15
Mark Grasser wrote:

> Welding cable DOES NOT work for this application! It has NO
> UV protection what-so-ever!! No high voltage and no high
> temp!!! Cheap way to go but NOT AT ALL SAFE!

Huh? I use Carol Super Vu-Tron welding cable in my EV; UL/CSA, 600V, -50 to +90C, weather, ozone, and sunlight resistant, orange in colour, Class M stranding (2/0 = 3300 strands of 34ga), etc.:

<http://www.generalcable.com/NR/rdonlyres/2384DF58-BED1-495C-ACE6-E527283DB631/0/Pg35_SVT_Weld.pdf>

What are you using?

Cheers,

Roger.

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