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Discussion Starter #1
This would be a good way to go if it will work out. The possibility of vandalism to all those cords for plug-in charging could turn into a monumental problem. It doesn't seem to be talked about in the articles. Maybe they don't want to give people ideas that they will have to put up with the problem when they try to charge their cars or give ideas to individuals that might indulge in destructive activities.

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Discussion Starter #2
Re: [EVDL] Wireless charging

Rod Hower <[email protected]> wrote:

> I thought this may be of interest,
>
> http://electronicdesign.com/article/power/Collaborators-Seek-Air-Power-For-Electric-Cars.aspx?nl=1
>
> Charging up an electrical vehicle is no feat of techno wizardry. Plug it
> in,
> wait a bit, and off you go, a no brainer at best. But how about charging up
> like
> some mobile device users do: wirelessly. That would certainly make things
> easier
> for the user..............................
>


A few years ago I had half a dozen different chargers for various cell
phones, gadgets. They all went to a mini or micro USB connector for charging
and data.
I think this is a solution for the EV as well. Charging at 1 watt would only
take about 6 months.

--
Martin K.
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Discussion Starter #3
Re: [EVDL] Wireless charging

This all seems so... familiar.

Oh, I remember. That's how they charged the EV1.

>From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductive_charging

"Hughes Electronics developed the Magne Charge interface for General
Motors. The General Motors EV1 electric car was charged by inserting
an inductive charging paddle into a receptacle on the vehicle. General
Motors and Toyota agreed on this interface and it was also used in the
Chevrolet S-10 EV and Toyota RAV4 EV vehicles."

Of course the inductive coil was inserted into a slot for best
efficiency. The efficiency drops off at the square of the distance,
so even 15cm is a bit far. If you had a target and a robotic arm...
well that seems even more complicated than sticking the coil in the
slot in the first place.

sean


Rod Hower <[email protected]> wrote:
> I thought this may be of interest,
> http://electronicdesign.com/article/power/Collaborators-Seek-Air-Power-Fo=
r-Electric-Cars.aspx?nl=3D1
>
> Charging up an electrical vehicle is no feat of techno wizardry. Plug it =
in,
> wait a bit, and off you go, a no brainer at best. But how about charging =
up like
> some mobile device users do: wirelessly. That would certainly make things=
easier
> for the user..............................


-- =

Sean Korb [email protected] http://www.spkorb.org
'65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso

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Discussion Starter #4
Re: [EVDL] Wireless charging

Drive over the paddle and a big magnet in the car sucks it off the floor to=
the contact patch. Still more complex than plugging into any three-prong =
outlet.

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behal=
f Of Sean Korb
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 2:33 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Wireless charging

This all seems so... familiar.

Oh, I remember. That's how they charged the EV1.

>From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductive_charging

"Hughes Electronics developed the Magne Charge interface for General
Motors. The General Motors EV1 electric car was charged by inserting
an inductive charging paddle into a receptacle on the vehicle. General
Motors and Toyota agreed on this interface and it was also used in the
Chevrolet S-10 EV and Toyota RAV4 EV vehicles."

Of course the inductive coil was inserted into a slot for best
efficiency. The efficiency drops off at the square of the distance,
so even 15cm is a bit far. If you had a target and a robotic arm...
well that seems even more complicated than sticking the coil in the
slot in the first place.

sean


Rod Hower <[email protected]> wrote:
> I thought this may be of interest,
> http://electronicdesign.com/article/power/Collaborators-Seek-Air-Power-Fo=
r-Electric-Cars.aspx?nl=3D1
>
> Charging up an electrical vehicle is no feat of techno wizardry. Plug it =
in,
> wait a bit, and off you go, a no brainer at best. But how about charging =
up like
> some mobile device users do: wirelessly. That would certainly make things=
easier
> for the user..............................


-- =

Sean Korb [email protected] http://www.spkorb.org
'65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso

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Discussion Starter #5
Re: [EVDL] Wireless charging

Lee Hart wrote:

> On 10/6/2010 1:35 PM, Roger Heuckeroth wrote:
>> But what is the efficiency of this kind of inductive charger with a
>> 6-8" air gap?
>
> Existing examples of this kind of charger minimize the air gap between
> "primary" and "secondary" (the GM Magnecharger, Inductran forklift
> chargers, Braun electric toothbrush charger...) This is the best way
> to
> minimize radiated noise and maximize efficiency.
>
> But, it is possible to operate with a modest gap and still maintain
> reasonably high efficiency. You can use higher frequencies, or larger
> diameter coils (so the space between them is a smaller in proportion),
> or put magnetic materials around the two coils to force more of the
> magnetic flux to link them rather than "escape".

So, you do think its a good idea? I know ifs possible.

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Discussion Starter #6
Re: [EVDL] Wireless charging

Not to mention the current that is induced in any other conductive
material within magnetic field. I just don't see this as a good
idea... but maybe I'm missing something.

Sean Korb wrote:

> This all seems so... familiar.
>
> Oh, I remember. That's how they charged the EV1.
>
>> From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductive_charging
>
> "Hughes Electronics developed the Magne Charge interface for General
> Motors. The General Motors EV1 electric car was charged by inserting
> an inductive charging paddle into a receptacle on the vehicle. General
> Motors and Toyota agreed on this interface and it was also used in the
> Chevrolet S-10 EV and Toyota RAV4 EV vehicles."
>
> Of course the inductive coil was inserted into a slot for best
> efficiency. The efficiency drops off at the square of the distance,
> so even 15cm is a bit far. If you had a target and a robotic arm...
> well that seems even more complicated than sticking the coil in the
> slot in the first place.
>
> sean
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 1:19 PM, Rod Hower <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> I thought this may be of interest,
>> http://electronicdesign.com/article/power/Collaborators-Seek-Air-Power-For-Electric-Cars.aspx?nl=1
>>
>> Charging up an electrical vehicle is no feat of techno wizardry.
>> Plug it in,
>> wait a bit, and off you go, a no brainer at best. But how about
>> charging up like
>> some mobile device users do: wirelessly. That would certainly make
>> things easier
>> for the user..............................
>
>
> --
> Sean Korb [email protected] http://www.spkorb.org
> '65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera
> #1382
> "The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
> "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
>
> _______________________________________________
> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
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Roger Heuckeroth
Advanced Carbon Systems
304 Blue Mountain Road
Saugerties, NY 12477
www.advancedcarbonsystems.com
Phone: 845-247-9089
Toll Free: 866-834-5674
Fax: 845-247-0441
[email protected]



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Discussion Starter #7
Re: [EVDL] Wireless charging

The system cost $5000.

They always carefully neglected to mention what the
consequences were of having the paddle energize outside the slot.

The reason the NEC Article 625 makes it so complicated and
expensive to conjunctively charge an EV (like you simply plug in an
RV,) is because the Huges folks got on the panel and made it that
way. They were doing their best to make conductive charging as
expensive as possible so that inductive charging would be something
even close to competitive in price.

The fact that you MUST cover the contacts on 5 volt logic
lines on BOTH sides of an EV connector is NEC Article 625 "Parts made
live must be covered". It would make sense if "live parts must be
covered" but that is not what it says.

It is required to be a locking connector. This makes no
sense on a vehicle that can roll away or can be towed away (like an
RV, for exmaple.) Because of the locking requirement, a strain sensor
and power shut off have to be added. Why not make it just COME UNDONE
like a gas pump hose?

Major soap box issue for me. Sorry for the rant, but it
really makes me mad what the Huges folks did to purposefully make
conductive charging expensive and complicated.

Bill D.

At 01:33 PM 10/6/2010, you wrote:
>This all seems so... familiar.
>
>Oh, I remember. That's how they charged the EV1.
>
> >From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductive_charging
>
>"Hughes Electronics developed the Magne Charge interface for General
>Motors. The General Motors EV1 electric car was charged by inserting
>an inductive charging paddle into a receptacle on the vehicle. General
>Motors and Toyota agreed on this interface and it was also used in the
>Chevrolet S-10 EV and Toyota RAV4 EV vehicles."
>
>Of course the inductive coil was inserted into a slot for best
>efficiency. The efficiency drops off at the square of the distance,
>so even 15cm is a bit far. If you had a target and a robotic arm...
>well that seems even more complicated than sticking the coil in the
>slot in the first place.
>
>sean
>
>
>
Rod Hower <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I thought this may be of interest,
> >
> http://electronicdesign.com/article/power/Collaborators-Seek-Air-Power-For-Electric-Cars.aspx?nl=1
> >
> > Charging up an electrical vehicle is no feat of techno wizardry.
> Plug it in,
> > wait a bit, and off you go, a no brainer at best. But how about
> charging up like
> > some mobile device users do: wirelessly. That would certainly
> make things easier
> > for the user..............................
>
>
>--
>Sean Korb [email protected] http://www.spkorb.org
>'65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
>"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
>"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
>
>_______________________________________________
>| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
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Discussion Starter #8
Re: [EVDL] Wireless charging

If it was designed by the valet who drove my truck in Chicago, the bumper
would require contact with a bollard.

:)

Brett (and somehow record a new high speed of 105mph on the gps)

Jack Murray <[email protected]>wrote:

> I think having to plug in a cord to charge is a huge PITA.
>
> But I'm one who hates to clean my swimming pool, vacuum the carpet,
> put the dishes away, or make my bed everyday.
>
> I hate going to the gas station too, a toxic waste dump experience,
> but it's only once a week, not everyday (with current batteries)
>
> My idea was not to put it on the ground, but have it integrated
> into the front bumper, and you drive UP to it, not OVER it.
> Makes sense for a parking spot, not many pull-through garages or parking
> lots I've seen..
> This would allow them to be very close together.
>
> And if anyone remembers my EV Train approach, this bumper(s) would
> also allow EVs to chain together magnetically and be charged as they travel
> the freeway in a train pulled by an EV locomotive.
> Google didn't fund that idea.. :(
>
> Jack Murray
>
> --- On Wed, 10/6/10, Bill Dube <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > From: Bill Dube <[email protected]>
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Wireless charging
> > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> > Date: Wednesday, October 6, 2010, 12:34 PM
> > Hard to compete with a $15 conductive
> > connector. All these nifty
> > alternative methods of charging typically cost more than
> > the actual
> > electricity the car will use in its entire lifespan.
> >
> > In the colder regions of the world, they routinely use
> > conductive
> > plugs to run block heaters. About the same amount of
> > wattage as an EV
> > needs. Works without any problems. Why invent something
> > more
> > expensive when you have something that is proven to work,
> > even in the snow. :)
> >
> > Bill D.
> >
> > At 01:11 PM 10/6/2010, you wrote:
> > >I didn't find what the percentage is, but the
> > "breakthrough" is
> > >to have resonant fields so its efficient. 50%
> > loss might be OK for
> > >a cell phone, but when talking about the power level to
> > a car, the
> > >wasted power would be enourmous, particularly on a big
> > scale
> > >(although might say same with cell phones if used in
> > large scale).
> > >
> > >I like the idea, Tesla was right! Again!
> > >
> > >I think a laser beam might be more efficient and
> > wireless.
> > >
> > >Jack Murray
> > >
> > >--- On Wed, 10/6/10, Roger Heuckeroth <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > From: Roger Heuckeroth <[email protected]>
> > > > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Wireless charging
> > > > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> > > > Date: Wednesday, October 6, 2010, 11:35 AM
> > > > But what is the efficiency of this
> > > > kind of inductive charger with a
> > > > 6-8" air gap?
> > > >
> > > > On Oct 6, 2010, at 1:19 PM, Rod Hower wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I thought this may be of interest,
> > > > >
> > >
> http://electronicdesign.com/article/power/Collaborators-Seek-Air-Power-For-Electric-Cars.aspx?nl=1
> > > > >
> > > > > Charging up an electrical vehicle is no feat
> > of techno
> > > > wizardry.
> > > > > Plug it in,
> > > > > wait a bit, and off you go, a no brainer at
> > best. But
> > > > how about
> > > > > charging up like
> > > > > some mobile device users do: wirelessly.
> > That would
> > > > certainly make
> > > > > things easier
> > > > > for the user..............................
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> > rejected.
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> > > >
> > >
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Discussion Starter #9
Re: [EVDL] Wireless charging

Wires and stuff are so... yesterday!

Eric wrote:
> Technically this would work IN the nations highways. Imagine this
> inductive charging system powered by the Sun built into the roads and
> highways of the world. An endless highway system where you never have to
> stop for charging. Expensive? Yeah, but heck it's only money...
>
> Regards,
> Eric
>
>
>
> On 10/6/2010 10:19 AM, Rod Hower wrote:
>> I thought this may be of interest,
>> http://electronicdesign.com/article/power/Collaborators-Seek-Air-Power-For-Electric-Cars.aspx?nl=1
>>
>> Charging up an electrical vehicle is no feat of techno wizardry. Plug it in,
>> wait a bit, and off you go, a no brainer at best. But how about charging up like
>> some mobile device users do: wirelessly. That would certainly make things easier
>> for the user..............................
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> | REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
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>>
>>
>
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>

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Discussion Starter #10
Re: [EVDL] Wireless charging

Lee Hart wrote:

> On 10/6/2010 6:00 PM, Eric wrote:
>> Technically this would work IN the nations highways. Imagine this
>> inductive charging system powered by the Sun built into the roads and
>> highways of the world. An endless highway system where you never
>> have to
>> stop for charging. Expensive? Yeah, but heck it's only money...
>
> Putting them in the roads seems unnecessarily difficult and expensive.
> Wouldn't it make more sense to put them beside the road, or overhead?


If your considering making that level of investment... might as well
think beyond the "car" as a means of transportation.

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Discussion Starter #11
Re: [EVDL] Wireless charging

Lee wrote
> Not if you can write the standards to require a $150 conductive
> connector! :)

Like the J1772 stuff...

Rush Dougherty
www.TEVA2.com
www.TucsonEV.com has the J1772 Adapter Box

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Discussion Starter #12
Re: [EVDL] Wireless charging

Tralala; J1772 socket , typical is 125 to 280 dollar, Real cord, plug, and
connection with electronics is typical $ 3,000 plus $1200 to install, just
plug and cord is $450 alone. But you all know that is what "THEY" want ,
Not US! I'm happy with a dryer or range plug.
Dennis Miles


Rush <[email protected]> wrote:

> Lee wrote
> > Not if you can write the standards to require a $150 conductive
> > connector! :)
>
> Like the J1772 stuff...
>
> Rush Dougherty
> www.TEVA2.com
> www.TucsonEV.com has the J1772 Adapter Box
>
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>



--
Regards,
*Dennis Lee Miles* (Director) *E.V.T.I. inc*.
*www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM <http://www.e-v-t-i-inc.com/> *(Adviser)*
EVTI-EVAEducation Chapter
*
Phone (863) 944 - 9913
Initial demand (computed by extrapolating the reservations for GM Volt and
Nissan Leaf,) shall exceed 200,000 vehicles in 2010 and 2011. However only
50,000 vehicles will be marketed, so a LARGE demand for Nice Newer
Conversions is predicted!
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Discussion Starter #13
Re: [EVDL] Wireless charging

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Miles" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Wireless charging


> Tralala; J1772 socket , typical is 125 to 280 dollar, Real cord, plug,
> and
> connection with electronics is typical $ 3,000 plus $1200 to install,
> just
> plug and cord is $450 alone. But you all know that is what "THEY" want ,
> Not US! I'm happy with a dryer or range plug.
> Dennis Miles
>
> Hi EVerybody;

Yeah! My dyer is just FINE! This is what I was afraid; having the
unusable "Chargeing stations for us? WHO WANT'S to spend all there bux. Like
farting in a hurricane? Nobody HEARD me?

Bob
>
Rush <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Lee wrote
>> > Not if you can write the standards to require a $150 conductive
>> > connector! :)
>>
>> Like the J1772 stuff...
>>
>> Rush Dougherty
>> www.TEVA2.com
>> www.TucsonEV.com has the J1772 Adapter Box
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> *Dennis Lee Miles* (Director) *E.V.T.I. inc*.
> *www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM <http://www.e-v-t-i-inc.com/> *(Adviser)*
> EVTI-EVAEducation Chapter
> *
> Phone (863) 944 - 9913
> Initial demand (computed by extrapolating the reservations for GM Volt
> and
> Nissan Leaf,) shall exceed 200,000 vehicles in 2010 and 2011. However only
> 50,000 vehicles will be marketed, so a LARGE demand for Nice Newer
> Conversions is predicted!
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Discussion Starter #14
Re: [EVDL] Wireless charging

I have no idea about losses experienced by inductive charging, but I used to
go to an indoor go cart track that used inductive charging and it seemed to
work quite well for them. Simply pull into the marked area and get out of
the cart. Charging was automatic with no plug! I moved, so I have not
checked on them in over 5 years, but I think I will make a point of stopping
in and finding more info.

Roger Heuckeroth <[email protected]>wrote:

> But what is the efficiency of this kind of inductive charger with a
> 6-8" air gap?
>
> On Oct 6, 2010, at 1:19 PM, Rod Hower wrote:
>
> > I thought this may be of interest,
> >
> http://electronicdesign.com/article/power/Collaborators-Seek-Air-Power-For-Electric-Cars.aspx?nl=1
> >
> > Charging up an electrical vehicle is no feat of techno wizardry.
> > Plug it in,
> > wait a bit, and off you go, a no brainer at best. But how about
> > charging up like
> > some mobile device users do: wirelessly. That would certainly make
> > things easier
> > for the user..............................
>
>
>
>
>
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--
Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the glass is
merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82
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Discussion Starter #15
Re: [EVDL] Wireless charging

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