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Discussion Starter #1
Way back, I went with 3-cond 220 on the house to car.
My dad went with 14-30 at his house.
Time to make a converter that I can use to charge @
220 there.

I've taken the green & white, which I see as ground,
and tied them together.
The red and black are hot.

Any problems with this setup?
Thanks,

Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 "CiviWithACord" DVD shows footage of my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
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'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?



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Discussion Starter #2
Bob,

If I understand the wiring code correctly, then you are
not supposed to connect ground (green) and neutral (white)
at any other place than at the service panel.

If you would have a 3-prong outlet on the house that you
would like to make a conversion cord for to allow a 4-prong
receptacle, then of course you are to tie the green and white
from the receptacle together at the 3-prong plug where it
plugs into the old style 3-prong outlet.

But as in your case, where you have a 3-wire appliance
that you want to plug into a 4-prong outlet, since the
appliance (car) uses only 240V and not 110V, there is
no need for the neutral (white) connector, so you simply
leave it away. You connect the two 240V hots to the two
"phase" prongs and the other wire from the 6-20 receptacle
goes to ground on the 14-30 plug.

Of course, officially you should also include a 20 Amp 2-pole
fuse, as the 6-20 is not capable of carrying the 30 Amp that the
14-30 and its 30 Amp fuse can supply, but that is another story.

Anybody correct me if I violate NEC with this setup.

Success,

Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bob Bath
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:37 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] Wiring an adapter: 14-30 dryer plug to 6-20R

Way back, I went with 3-cond 220 on the house to car.
My dad went with 14-30 at his house.
Time to make a converter that I can use to charge @ 220 there.

I've taken the green & white, which I see as ground, and tied them together.
The red and black are hot.

Any problems with this setup?
Thanks,

Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 "CiviWithACord" DVD shows footage of my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?



____________________________________________________________________________________
Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
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Discussion Starter #4
Ahhh, except that a PFC-20 will pull a finite number
of amps at my pack voltage: 40 as I plug it in, 33
within seconds under all situations. Have pulled it
through the 6-20R with no issues over 3 years.
If I ever been up the charger, your point is well
taken.

Will remove the white from the ground connection.
Thanks!
(;-p

--- Cor van de Water <[email protected]> wrote:

> Bob,
>
> If I understand the wiring code correctly, then you
> are
> not supposed to connect ground (green) and neutral
> (white)
> at any other place than at the service panel.
>
> If you would have a 3-prong outlet on the house that
> you
> would like to make a conversion cord for to allow a
> 4-prong
> receptacle, then of course you are to tie the green
> and white
> from the receptacle together at the 3-prong plug
> where it
> plugs into the old style 3-prong outlet.
>
> But as in your case, where you have a 3-wire
> appliance
> that you want to plug into a 4-prong outlet, since
> the
> appliance (car) uses only 240V and not 110V, there
> is
> no need for the neutral (white) connector, so you
> simply
> leave it away. You connect the two 240V hots to the
> two
> "phase" prongs and the other wire from the 6-20
> receptacle
> goes to ground on the 14-30 plug.
>
> Of course, officially you should also include a 20
> Amp 2-pole
> fuse, as the 6-20 is not capable of carrying the 30
> Amp that the
> 14-30 and its 30 Amp fuse can supply, but that is
> another story.
>
> Anybody correct me if I violate NEC with this setup.
>
> Success,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [email protected] Private:
> http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM:
> [email protected]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD#
> 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Second Life:
>
www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bob
> Bath
> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:37 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: [EVDL] Wiring an adapter: 14-30 dryer plug
> to 6-20R
>
> Way back, I went with 3-cond 220 on the house to
> car.
> My dad went with 14-30 at his house.
> Time to make a converter that I can use to charge @
> 220 there.
>
> I've taken the green & white, which I see as ground,
> and tied them together.
> The red and black are hot.
>
> Any problems with this setup?
> Thanks,
>
> Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20
> "CiviWithACord" DVD shows footage of my '92 sedan,
> as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
> www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
> ____
> __/__|__\ __
> =D-------/ - - \
> 'O'-----'O'-'
> Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came
> out of the steering wheel? Are you saving any gas
> for your kids?
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet
> in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 "CiviWithACord" DVD shows footage of my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?



____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469

_______________________________________________
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Discussion Starter #5
As I understand it, neutral and ground are to be bonded only at the main
disconnect, never anywhere downstream.

As for going the other way, deriving a ground for your EV from a neutral in
a 240v 3-pin receptacle, it would depend on the situation. If you have a
cable or conduit that serves ONLY your EV, nothing else (which is usually
the case for a dryer or stove recept), and you need only 240v, no 120, then
you may install a 240v only receptacle and convert the white wire to a
ground. (Wrap green tape around it at both ends.) Using the neutral as
ground in an adapter, not installing a proper 240v recept, is a bit more
dicey.

If you need to split the 240v line to get 120v, say for a blower, this would
not be a safe practice and you'd absolutely need a separate ground.

As a bit of background, new stove and dryer installations are required to
have a separate ground, because in certain failure situations it is possible
for the neutral system to become energized relative to ground. The waiver
on ground for large appliances, allowing them to use neutral instead,
originated during WW II when it was important to save copper. It was
finally repealed in (IIRC) 1996.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Discussion Starter #6
Hello Bob,

If your EV is only using 240 VAC 3 conductor cable, which is two lines and a
ground (green) and no neutral (white), then connect up the two lines (L1 and
L2) and the ground (Gn) only to the four wire plug.

Do not use the neutral connection. Any 120 vac device in the same building
that is using any 120 vac load, the neutral then has a current flowing on it
all the time. Unlike a ground, where there may be current flowing on the
ground conductor only when there is a short.

We found way back in the forties, they were using the neutral to ground the
housings of equipment. This cause current flow on the housings of these
devices, and started to kill people. So the NEC made a change, where the
cord must be a polarize plug (only can be plug in one way) and then later to
a 3 wire cord to a 3 wire receptacle.

At the time, we was allow to connect a 120 vac 3 wire receptacle to a
existing 2 wire feeder and connecting the ground and neutral at the
receptacle. This also did not work, because the continuous current flow on
the neutral was back feeding on the ground circuits on any other devices in
the building and killing more people.

So the NEC made another change, by install 120 vac 3 wire or 120/240 4 wire
circuits up to the circuit breaker panel. The panel at the time did not
have a ground bar, so we were allow to combine the neutral and ground wires
on the solid ground wire. Again this did not work, because if you lose the
neutral connection coming in from the service entrance, than all the
grounding conductors in the building would be live and more people were kill
off.

The NEC then made another change. It seems that the NEC only makes these
changes until someone is kill. We now must run the neutral and ground
conductors and in some installations, must be only connected together at the
transformers, with the ground conductors connecting to several ground rods
first than cross connected to the a neutral ground rod in the ground that is
about 4 feet apart.

At a residence, this ground to neutral connection is made at the meter base
if a 3 wire service cable is use. The meter base has a large bonding strap
that connects the solid neutral to a ground bar. The meter base ground bar
is then connected to a ground rod with a ground wire that must be isolated
and protected from mechanical damage until it is connected to a ground rod.

Some states require a four wire service entrance all the way out to the
transformer where the neutral and ground conductors are then cross connected
using two ground rods.

If your plumbing is a conductive type, then you must have a separate
insulated ground wire run all the way to this meter base ground lug or to a
separate ground rod, that is then cross connected to the electrical ground
rod.

So, if you was to connected any neutral and ground together before this last
meter base or transformer ground to neutral connection, you could have
current flowing on any conductive grounding enclosures.

If the building has GFCI (ground-fault circuit interrupter receptacles) then
this connection of the neutral and ground conductor could unbalance this
circuit and cause the GFCI to trip.

Roland

If your EV is a 120/240 VAC device where there may be a neutral being using
for 120 vac devices, then you must run a 4 wire cord using four wire devices
all the way to the first service switch that enters the building.




----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Bath" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 11:37 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Wiring an adapter: 14-30 dryer plug to 6-20R


> Way back, I went with 3-cond 220 on the house to car.
> My dad went with 14-30 at his house.
> Time to make a converter that I can use to charge @
> 220 there.
>
> I've taken the green & white, which I see as ground,
> and tied them together.
> The red and black are hot.
>
> Any problems with this setup?
> Thanks,
>
> Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 "CiviWithACord" DVD shows footage
> of my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
> www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
> ____
> __/__|__\ __
> =D-------/ - - \
> 'O'-----'O'-'
> Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
> wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail,
> news, photos & more.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 
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