David Nelson wrote:
> It seems that my Zivan charger does an equalize charge every time. I
> seem to have heard someone else say this too. When I unplug my charger
> after a charge and plug it in again it quickly goes down to drawing
> 300 or so watts at the wall plug and runs at that power for a while.
>
> David Nelson
>
> On 10/1/07, Deanne Mott <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Can the Zivan do an equalization charge? I read the spec but saw
> > nothing about that possibility. When you say you had to "re-plug in"
> > do you mean you just restarted charging, and it charged some more?
> > thx
> >
> > On 10/1/07, Richard Acuti <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Not trying to perpetuate an old arguement here but I have to agree. I've been running my Zivan since the end of February and I've only had to add water twice. Every weekend, I get up on Saturday morning and check the batteries for voltage differences and they're usually pretty close. I've had to re-plug in just once to get everything equal. I'm at just about 4,000 miles now.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Bill Dube wrote:
> You buy the Zivan with the program burned in for your type and size
> of battery. They can do the proper charge for any type of battery.
> However, you must ask for the "proper" program when you buy it.
>
> Zivan's got the reputation for "beating up" AGMs on the Sparrow. The
> problem was, the Sparrow Zivans were programmed to give the 100% DOD
> finish charge regardless of the actual % DOD. This is what Sparrow
> asked for, and it is what Zivan gave to them.
>
> Normally, the Zivan is programmed to give a finish charge
> duration in proportion to the bulk charge duration. This is why folks
> with the "normal" program notice that their floodies use just a
> little bit of water. If you tell Zivan that you have "normal" AGMs of
> XX Amp-hrs, they will supply you with a program that does na
> excellent job of charging them (with proportional finish charge duration.)
>
> Put on some regs with your AGMs, and all will be fine.
>
> The Zivan has a couple of disadvantages, however. First, you
> have to pick 220 VAC or 120 VAC. They don't make a dual voltage
> charger (last time I checked.) They are also not power factor
> corrected. This can be a problem if you are going to charge from 120
> VAC at work, for example. You just can't suck the full wattage from a
> 20 amp 120 V outlet unless you have power-factor correction. Also,
> you can't easily turn the current down if you have a low-amperage plug-in.
>
> They are great if you plug into your very own 220 volt
> outlet every time, but are not at all good if you must plug in at a
> friend's house or at a restaurant, etc.
>
> Bill Dube'
>
> At 02:14 PM 10/1/2007, you wrote:
> >Can the Zivan do an equalization charge? I read the spec but saw
> >nothing about that possibility. When you say you had to "re-plug in"
> >do you mean you just restarted charging, and it charged some more?
> >thx
> >
> >On 10/1/07, Richard Acuti <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Not trying to perpetuate an old arguement here but I have to
> > agree. I've been running my Zivan since the end of February and
> > I've only had to add water twice. Every weekend, I get up on
> > Saturday morning and check the batteries for voltage differences
> > and they're usually pretty close. I've had to re-plug in just once
> > to get everything equal. I'm at just about 4,000 miles now.
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >For subscription options, see
> >http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Bill Dube wrote:
> You buy the Zivan with the program burned in for your type and size
> of battery. They can do the proper charge for any type of battery.
> However, you must ask for the "proper" program when you buy it.
>
> Zivan's got the reputation for "beating up" AGMs on the Sparrow. The
> problem was, the Sparrow Zivans were programmed to give the 100% DOD
> finish charge regardless of the actual % DOD. This is what Sparrow
> asked for, and it is what Zivan gave to them.
>
> Normally, the Zivan is programmed to give a finish charge
> duration in proportion to the bulk charge duration. This is why folks
> with the "normal" program notice that their floodies use just a
> little bit of water. If you tell Zivan that you have "normal" AGMs of
> XX Amp-hrs, they will supply you with a program that does na
> excellent job of charging them (with proportional finish charge
> duration.)
>
> Put on some regs with your AGMs, and all will be fine.
>
> The Zivan has a couple of disadvantages, however. First, you
> have to pick 220 VAC or 120 VAC. They don't make a dual voltage
> charger (last time I checked.) They are also not power factor
> corrected. This can be a problem if you are going to charge from 120
> VAC at work, for example. You just can't suck the full wattage from a
> 20 amp 120 V outlet unless you have power-factor correction. Also,
> you can't easily turn the current down if you have a low-amperage
> plug-in.
>
> They are great if you plug into your very own 220 volt
> outlet every time, but are not at all good if you must plug in at a
> friend's house or at a restaurant, etc.
>
> Bill Dube'
>
> At 02:14 PM 10/1/2007, you wrote:
>> Can the Zivan do an equalization charge? I read the spec but saw
>> nothing about that possibility. When you say you had to "re-plug in"
>> do you mean you just restarted charging, and it charged some more?
>> thx
>>
>> On 10/1/07, Richard Acuti <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Not trying to perpetuate an old arguement here but I have to
>> agree. I've been running my Zivan since the end of February and
>> I've only had to add water twice. Every weekend, I get up on
>> Saturday morning and check the batteries for voltage differences
>> and they're usually pretty close. I've had to re-plug in just once
>> to get everything equal. I'm at just about 4,000 miles now.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
David Nelson wrote:
> > It seems that my Zivan charger does an equalize charge every time. I
> > seem to have heard someone else say this too. When I unplug my charger
> > after a charge and plug it in again it quickly goes down to drawing
> > 300 or so watts at the wall plug and runs at that power for a while.
> >
> > David Nelson
> >
> > On 10/1/07, Deanne Mott <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > Can the Zivan do an equalization charge? I read the spec but saw
> > > nothing about that possibility. When you say you had to "re-plug in"
> > > do you mean you just restarted charging, and it charged some more?
> > > thx
> > >
> > > On 10/1/07, Richard Acuti <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Not trying to perpetuate an old arguement here but I have to agree. I've been running my Zivan since the end of February and I've only had to add water twice. Every weekend, I get up on Saturday morning and check the batteries for voltage differences and they're usually pretty close. I've had to re-plug in just once to get everything equal. I'm at just about 4,000 miles now.
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > For subscription options, see
> > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Bill Dube wrote:
> You buy the Zivan with the program burned in for your type and size
> of battery. They can do the proper charge for any type of battery.
> However, you must ask for the "proper" program when you buy it.
>
> Zivan's got the reputation for "beating up" AGMs on the Sparrow. The
> problem was, the Sparrow Zivans were programmed to give the 100% DOD
> finish charge regardless of the actual % DOD. This is what Sparrow
> asked for, and it is what Zivan gave to them.
>
> Normally, the Zivan is programmed to give a finish charge
> duration in proportion to the bulk charge duration. This is why folks
> with the "normal" program notice that their floodies use just a
> little bit of water. If you tell Zivan that you have "normal" AGMs of
> XX Amp-hrs, they will supply you with a program that does na
> excellent job of charging them (with proportional finish charge duration.)
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> My understanding is, while Zivan chargers are very programmable,
> they are just not *user* programmable, which makes them far less
> versatile than they would've been if Zivan would changed this policy.
>
> Sort of buying a radio fixed-tuned to one radio station you
> specified at the time of purchase. To listen to something else,
> you send radio back to manufacturer to turn the dial for you.
> A bit silly.
>
> BRUSA use to make such version for SAFT NiCd after SAFT
> twisted BRUSA's arms forcing company to redesign that flavor
> of chargers making them not user programmable - insuring that
> no warranty claims will come to SAFT due to wrong charger setting.
> SAFT specified exact profile and to make sure it will not be
> "cracked" asked BRUSA also change the hardware so replacing
> firmware chip on crippled charger would not restore functionality
> of open version.
> That was one time deal, BRUSA didn't like it and disagreed with
> such policy but built chargers for SAFT not to loose large contract
> with them. Well, at the end these chargers are of very little value
> for anything other than those NiCd packs (which are no longer
> produced by SAFT by the way). OTOH "normal" user programmable
> BRUSA units sell like hot pancakes - thanks for being ready
> for any battery that comes along in future.
>
> I'm sure Zivan knows this but doesn't seem to want to learn
> a lesson. Oh well, I'm sure they know better how to run
> business...
>
> Victor
>
> Bill Dube wrote:
>> You buy the Zivan with the program burned in for your type and size
>> of battery. They can do the proper charge for any type of battery.
>> However, you must ask for the "proper" program when you buy it.
>>
>> Zivan's got the reputation for "beating up" AGMs on the Sparrow. The
>> problem was, the Sparrow Zivans were programmed to give the 100% DOD
>> finish charge regardless of the actual % DOD. This is what Sparrow
>> asked for, and it is what Zivan gave to them.
>>
>> Normally, the Zivan is programmed to give a finish charge
>> duration in proportion to the bulk charge duration. This is why folks
>> with the "normal" program notice that their floodies use just a
>> little bit of water. If you tell Zivan that you have "normal" AGMs of
>> XX Amp-hrs, they will supply you with a program that does na
>> excellent job of charging them (with proportional finish charge
>> duration.)
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
>>
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>For subscription options, see
>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Danny Miller wrote:
> Microcontrollers are quite reliable, far more so than a PC system, and
> "boot up" and start running the program in milliseconds.
> There's no complicated issues on interfacing it with an operating system
> (Windows, Linux, etc) because there's no OS. Just code.
> Microcontrollers manipute I/O at a very low level, there is a far lower
> potential for odd "gotchas" where the controller isn't reading inputs or
> assigning outputs the way it thought it was.
>
> Danny
>
> Victor Tikhonov wrote:
>
> >To clarify that - software is something that is typically stored on hard
> >(or floppy or solid state or compact) disk, loads and runs on your PC.
> >Example - CD with word processor program or a PC Operating System.
> >Firmware is something that is stored and runs directly on silicon
> >(microcontroller with internal/external program memory).
> >Example - computer BIOS, jet printer head driver, and such.
> >
> >In case of BRUSA and any other uP controlled charger I'm aware of,
> >software (PC) is only connected to it to configure and store desired
> >profile in charger's non-volatile memory. Once it's done, charger
> >executes this profile without a PC, so essentially runs its "firmware".
> >
> >It's just user changeable ("flushable") firmware. It's as reliable as
> >any other firmware. When was last time your PC's flash BIOS chip failed?
> >
> >Victor
> >
> >Mark Dutko wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Zivan sellers also claims that the software is not as reliable as the
> >>firmware- not so sure about that. Also, their ability to custom
> >>program a charger is limited to "tweaking" the few profiles they have
> >>and is not an exact process.
> >>On Oct 1, 2007, at 6:21 PM, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >For subscription options, see
> >http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Hunter Cook wrote:
> Yes, all your points about microcontrollers are accurate, due to their
> much reduced complexity vs. PC architectures. But I think Victor's point
> was that regardless of whether you program your Brusa, etc. with a PC,
> it is still actually running the code from firmware via a
> microcontroller, and thus should have microcontroller-style
> reliability/performance.
I have the advantage of having designed furnace controllers for many
years with Honeywell and Robertshaw. These controllers have to be
affordable, but also *very* safe -- a mistake can, for example, open a
gas valve without igniting the pilot light first, and thereby blow up
someone's house!
99% of the microcomputers produced are not suitable for such
applications. They are built to be cheap; not good, and have huge
numbers of failure modes that can turn on outputs when they shouldn't be on.
The problem with almost all microcomputer-controlled battery chargers
(and in fact, with almost all microcomputer-controlled consumer
products) is that the designers simply ignored failure modes. He used
the cheapest parts, and wrote his software without regard to failure
modes. If it fails, so what? The customer is expected to throw it out
and buy another one.
The trouble is, a failure in an EV charger causes collateral damage. It
can wreck thousands of dollars worth of batteries! And, many battery
failures can cause further damage or even fires!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev