Federal Tax Credit for converting? 2010 - First Post

7036 Views 36 Replies 9 Participants Last post by Ziggythewiz, Apr 25, 2012

sigbigdig

Discussion Starter · Feb 25, 2011

Hello, I'm new to the Forum. A few years ago, I converted a 1987 Suzuki SP200 to electric and have been riding it for 3 years (9 months a year.) At the end of the year last year, I converted a 1974 Triumph TR6 and autocrossed and commuted with it until it snowed. Hope that suffices for an introduction

I was drawn to this site because I want to ask questions and share knowledge I have amassed so far.

That said, I'll start out with a question - has anyone else tried to take a 10% tax credit using Form 8910 for a CONVERSION? I tried - and the IRS rejected me - I am waiting on a callback from their Deep Research department for clarification. I had thought that if it had 4 wheels, and more than 4KWH capacity, I was all set - did the tax laws change for 2010?

Thanks,
-Matt

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Ziggythewiz

· #2 · Feb 25, 2011

I did. See thread: http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55271&highlight=credit

GrapeApe

· #3 · Mar 2, 2011 (Edited)

When I read the tax code related to this conversion and 'hybrid' conversion, the wording said that the vehicle had to be a new car... like as in off the lot. Congress only wants to help you IF you help one of their children; a Corporation. I encountered this when I researched HHO generators and they were pitching this tax credit. But it's not for used cars. If anyone can find a tax credit for converting a Hoopty, I'd love to read it.

Edit: please do not reply to this post. I have since been corrected and feel like a fool

read down to my newer entry as to my reply to my stupidity!

thanks, GrapeApe

sigbigdig

Discussion Starter · #4 · Mar 2, 2011

Well... I guess I'll put that question to the group, then. Form 8910 - is it, or is it NOT legit to be used for getting 10% credit on a conversion on an older car? Any tax gurus out there?

Ziggythewiz

· #5 · Mar 2, 2011

Yes, conversions of old vehicles get $ (just not $$$ like new ones). The thing about the tax code is, you have to read it.

From 8910
"Qualified plug-in electric drive motor vehicle.
This is a vehicle converted to be propelled to a significant extent
by an electric motor that draws electricity from certain
batteries capable of being recharged from an external
source of electricity, and that meets certain additional
requirements."

If you buy new you can get lots more $$$ (buy a hybrid and convert it to plug-in and you can get up to 11,500) but conversions of old vehicles still qualify for the 10% rebate up to 4K. They haven't been talking about this on every EV conversion site for the last year just to help the evil corporations.

The only thing I found deceitful was that many things that were advertised as credits are actually just rebates, so if you don't owe anything, you don't get anything. In my case I owed more than the rebates, so they knocked that down so most of the actual credits I get (EIC, ACTC, MWPC) will be returned instead of going to pay that.

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sigbigdig

Discussion Starter · #6 · Mar 2, 2011

Thanks for the confirmation.

pete c

· #7 · Mar 3, 2011

when the weather allows, i ride my trek to work. this is way greener than any conversion. and it promotes health. and the day long endorphin buzz makes me a moer productive worker.

where's my tax credit?

tax credits suck. just one more reason for the army of lobbyists in DC to exist.

we're broke. we have no money. stop giving it away to people's pet projects.

Ziggythewiz

· #8 · Mar 3, 2011

pete c said:
tax credits suck. just one more reason for the army of lobbyists in DC to exist.

Agreed, but if there's a legal way for me to take back some of what's mine, I'm doin' it.

hans j

· #9 · Mar 3, 2011

I purchased an already converted EV from out of state and finagled our state (Utah) tax credit but doing everything under the sun (and their rules) to actually prove it was a legitimate conversion. Our state tax credit is 50% up to $2500. I paid less than $5k for mine so pretty much Utah is paying for half of my EV!

I looked into the federal credit and decided it was too much paperwork to go through with it. The few hundred dollars would have been nice but even the hassle I have been going through just to get a clean air license plate is enough to never want to deal with it again.

As I recall there are two different forms. http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8910.pdf is the one highway cars can use and http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8834.pdf is for NEV's. http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8936.pdf appears to be for manufactured EV's. I would definitely pursue the federal credit if I had built the car and spent much more on it. Good luck!

sigbigdig

Discussion Starter · #10 · Mar 3, 2011

Pete, I was just thinking that bike riding really trumps conversions earlier today

. I'm not sure tax credits suck, though... They are encouraging "new" technology and trying to stoke the economy 2 different ways at the same time.
That being said, it is, of course, imperfect - for several reasons - but most amusingly, the credits are tainted by the very (human) problem that has gotten us in trouble with oil and energy in general. I made sure I had 5+ KWH capacity on my latest conversion - I foolishly built my previous conversion (motorcycle) with only the capacity I needed for a round trip to work - it came up short and didn't qualify - cause I had only used what I needed hahahaha.

gojo

· #11 · Mar 3, 2011

sigbigdig said:
Pete, I was just thinking that bike riding really trumps conversions earlier today . I'm not sure tax credits suck, though... They are encouraging "new" technology and trying to stoke the economy 2 different ways at the same time.
That being said, it is, of course, imperfect - for several reasons - but most amusingly, the credits are tainted by the very (human) problem that has gotten us in trouble with oil and energy in general. I made sure I had 5+ KWH capacity on my latest conversion - I foolishly built my previous conversion (motorcycle) with only the capacity I needed for a round trip to work - it came up short and didn't qualify - cause I had only used what I needed hahahaha.

Electric bikes; the best of both worlds.

GrapeApe

· #12 · Mar 4, 2011 (Edited)

Ziggythewiz said:
Yes, conversions of old vehicles get $ (just not $$$ like new ones). The thing about the tax code is, you have to read it.

Actually, I read it all the time. I do get a bit dyslexic on the numbers after a while. I'm not the paralegal I used to be :/

Not to mention that I found the post late at night while watching Craig Ferguson... not hte time to reply to threads! Ziggy said he already posted the necessary info! I'm so blind! <--- see?

The form I have on hybrid hydrogen cars has wording on "new cars". In this case the form is for electric and not "duel fuel" piston only hybrid (or whatever I'm trying to say). But THIS form 8910 is titled "Alternative Motor Vehicle Credit". So I stand (sit) corrected.

it states under the heading:

Note.
• Use this form to claim the credit for certain alternative motor vehicles or plug-in electric vehicle conversions.
• Claim the credit for certain two- or three-wheeled or low-speed four-wheeled plug-in electric vehicles on Form 8834. (Those funny lookin street legal over grown Golf Carts?)
• Claim the credit for certain other plug-in electric vehicles on Form 8936.

and has dates for when the car was put into service etc.

I am dreadfully sorry I did not look up the form, hell, this IS the internet is it not? Please accept my apologies to the group for derailing the thread! I pulled the ultimate blunder of not having the correct info before shoving my boot in my fat mouth

Mea culpa!

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pete c

· #13 · Mar 5, 2011

gojo said:
Electric bikes; the best of both worlds.

E bikes is the best idea out there. They are cheap, run on very small amounts of power and give the rider a workout (if he chooses to).

They also solve another big problem for us cyclists. A properly designed E-bike can add enough speed to allow a cyclist to ride in the lane at the posted speed limit on many roads. This is a huge safety feature for cyclists who occasionally get killed because they simply aren't quick enough.

"the wife"

· #14 · Apr 11, 2012

ok, my husband builds the electric cars, but I am the one who files the taxes.

I tried to file for the Alternative Vehicle Credit form 8910, and when I transmitted it, it got rejected by the IRS twice. I also have a question about line 4 "credit allowable" of the form.

Here is the story of the car: My husband's sister gave us their non-running 1993 Ford Escort. Javier converted it to electric and we have had it in service since November 2011.

Is there anybody out there that has been able to succesfully complete form 8910????? I am using HR Block software, and line 4 of form 8910 asks for a "credit allowable", an amount supposedly the manufacturer gives the purchaser of the car, but since the car is DIY, we do not have this amount. What should I put there????

On top of everything, in my google search I came across a document tittled "Recovery Act Individuals Received millions of dollars in erroneous plug-in electric and alternative motor vehicle credits" authored by the IRS.

Any accountants out there??? I NEED HELP PLEASE

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"the wife"

· #15 · Apr 11, 2012

I think it is different for the Leaf than it would be for a conversion. What I am stumbling with is what to put in Line 4! Thanks for the response, though!

Ziggythewiz

· #16 · Apr 11, 2012

I had no problem with mine. The credit allowable for a conversion IIRC was $4K

I'll have to dig up my 2010 return to check.

"the wife"

· #17 · Apr 11, 2012

Ziggy: Please!!! I would really appreciate if you can check what you put in line 4 of 8910. What kind of car did you convert? Did you own the car since it was new or did you purchase an old car and converted it? Thanks in advance!

gottdi: I think in my case it is different. According to the IRS, I would need a certificate from the manufacturer of the car (they have different amt of credit depending on how many cars of the same model have been sold, etc) to complete line 4 of the 8910. Since our car is a converted '93 Escort, we do not have a certificate. The car is 18 kW I think. Thanks for your help, though! How does your leaf run? Do you like it?

Ziggythewiz

· #18 · Apr 11, 2012

A conversion has nothing to do with OEM credits. Pack size is irrelevant.

"the wife"

· #19 · Apr 11, 2012

I can call my tax person tomorrow and ask what the different limits for the different sizes are and what the allowable credits will be for each. If I get through and get the info tomorrow I will post it straight away.

I would really appreciate this information from your tax person, I am down to the wire

Thanks!!!

Ziggythewiz

· #20 · Apr 11, 2012

I can't find my form, but I've looked over the docs. Things are off by 1 line because they've added a VIN line. On my line 3 (your 4) I left it blank, as it is a manufacturer's certified value and NA to conversions. The max allowable is already on your line 9.

As for the original owner bit, I ignored that as it is lumped in with certification requirements for OEM, I assumed it was a new car requirement.

I've heard of several people who had issues with this going through tax preparers or software. I always do mine with the fillable forms, and had no issues after they eventually got the form. They were really slow, probably because I was one of few complaining about it.

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