Finding a motor on a budget

286234 Views 173 Replies 62 Participants Last post by piotrsko, 5 mo ago

sukusia

Discussion Starter · Mar 26, 2011 (Edited)

So here is what I learned about motors from this site. I wanted to post a quick reference so newbs (like myself) do not have to sort through the sticky page.

When looking for a forklift motor:
Get a series wound motor because they have very high torque and handle abuse (over volting) a lot better.
Know the difference between a Spex motor and a Series wound.
When dealing with series wound forklift motors go for higher voltage. (36V may require advanced timing.)
Hp does not directly represent torque (although it does have a factor in its equation).
Get a class H insulation if possible (makes your motor last longer)
Get a motor around 150lbs (Wouldn't risk a motor that's too light, it won't have the oomph you need. a few extra pounds is A-o.k. but a significant amount of extra pounds limits your range)
Get one with a male shaft
A keyed shaft is easier to work with but you can still work with a spline shaft
Try and get the coupler that goes on to your motor when you buy it/rip it out (saves you $$ and time)
When looking for a different motor:
Ac is not the way to go for your first conversion (or do i just have low expectations of myself?)
You can tell if a motor is AC if it is a 1 phase or 3 phase motor
Pancake motors are usually not good candidates for car conversions. (Yeah you saw the one on ebay. They overheat easily)
Golfcart motors are seldom powerful enough for a conversion
Motors specifically made for EV conversions are the best but its gonna cost you.
You do have to look at many factor such as volts, amps (which gets you Hp). Torque is nice to know. Continuous Hp. So many factors!!!

"HP is HP Electric motors and gas engines are rated differently w/r/t HP. And they have different torque curves. But one HP from an electric motor shaft is exactly the same as one HP from a gas engine shaft at the same RPM "- Major

If there is any more helpful hints I'll be happy to add them

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major

· #2 · Mar 27, 2011

sukusia said:
So here is what I learned about motors from this site. I wanted to post a quick reference so newbs (like myself) do not have to sort through the sticky page. Correct me if i'm wrong on these.

Hi suk,

Not bad

Here's a couple of comments. Refer back to your #1 post for quote context.

(36V usually is too low)

Not necessarily. Many 36V motors work out well for guys on 72 or 96V systems, some even higher. That usually requires advance (shifting the brush position).

A heavier one is o.k. but it limits your range

Unless you go way overboard, I doubt you need to worry about a few motor pounds subtracting from your range.

Hp from an electric motor is not the same as Hp from an Gasoline engine

HP is HP

Electric motors and gas engines are rated differently w/r/t HP. And they have different torque curves. But one HP from an electric motor shaft is exactly the same as one HP from a gas engine shaft at the same RPM

Regards,

major

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sukusia

Discussion Starter · #3 · Mar 27, 2011

Thank you for your input major. You are the motor master after all. Doh on my part for the HP thing. I kinda have to laugh at myself for that one. I think I'll change my top post to correct and clarify things for newbs like me.

Thanks

AC or DC

· #4 · Mar 30, 2011

A query I have is finding a source for a forklift motor. Other than purchasing a wrecked forklift I have seen information about picking them up from servicing and repair places. However if a motor is being thrown out then surely it is not going to be worth salvaging for using in an electric car conversion. If it won't work in a forklift any more then to me it follows that it is only suitable as scrap. Please any advice gratefully received.

Woodsmith

· #5 · Mar 30, 2011

AC or DC said:
A query I have is finding a source for a forklift motor. Other than purchasing a wrecked forklift I have seen information about picking them up from servicing and repair places. However if a motor is being thrown out then surely it is not going to be worth salvaging for using in an electric car conversion. If it won't work in a forklift any more then to me it follows that it is only suitable as scrap. Please any advice gratefully received.

I have a local motor service place near me and they have quite a few motors 'in stock'.

Often a dead motor is brought in and found uneconomical to repair or the turn over time is too long and so a new or recon motor is sold in exchange. The dead one is then repaired when work is quiet and place on the shelf for sale. Occasionally they have also repaired motors and the customer never returns for it, some are even paid for and abandoned.

So it is worth asking and you should get a rebuilt motor with a warrenty on the work.

However, the other way is to find a fork lift breaker. They will often remove running motors and sell them with no more warrenty then that it spins on 12V. You may then, if is is rough, be taking it back to the repair shop to have it rebuilt anyway. But you could also be lucky and get a really good one that require only a clean and new brushes and bearings.

Reactions: 1

Woodsmith

· #6 · Mar 30, 2011

I am going to make this thread a 'sticky'.

Please post concise useful hints and tips, maybe with helpful images, here to help members and keep the 'is this one any good (with photos)' and the 'chat' about them in the other sticky thread please.

Thank you.

Reactions: 1

sukusia

Discussion Starter · #7 · Mar 30, 2011

AC or DC said:
A query I have is finding a source for a forklift motor. Other than purchasing a wrecked forklift I have seen information about picking them up from servicing and repair places. However if a motor is being thrown out then surely it is not going to be worth salvaging for using in an electric car conversion. If it won't work in a forklift any more then to me it follows that it is only suitable as scrap. Please any advice gratefully received.

I bough Ben Nelson's Build your own electric car cheap DvD where Ben gives a brief explanation on how to repair an electric motor. The motor Ben used barley turned and was rusted on the case badly. But he made it run. Its not that expensive from what i saw ($50). Another factor to consider is the price of batteries. These old forklifts may still be running but as they grow older the value of the batteries actually cost more than the forklift itself. So what do these companies do? They scrap the forklift. Why buy new batteries for an old forklift when you can have newer batteries and a new forklift?
Finding one can be difficult in certain areas. I talked to a friend of mine and he said that all the big company's with the forklifts you want send the broken-down/old forklifts to the scrap yard. Most of the time for insurance purposes big companies cannot sell it to someone. So your best bet is either surf the web or call multiple scrap yards and ask them to call you if they ever get a forklift in.

My 2 cents

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AC or DC

· #8 · Apr 1, 2011

Thanks for those useful comments people. They have given me a few ideas.

electro37

· #9 · Apr 13, 2011

sukusia said:
So here is what I learned about motors from this site. I wanted to post a quick reference so newbs (like myself) do not have to sort through the sticky page.

When looking for a forklift motor:
Get a series wound motor because they have very high torque and handle abuse (over volting) a lot better.
Know the difference between a Spex motor and a Series wound.
When dealing with series wound forklift motors go for higher voltage. (36V may require advanced timing.)
Hp does not directly represent torque (although it does have a factor in its equation).
Get a class H insulation if possible (makes your motor last longer)
Get a motor around 150lbs (Wouldn't risk a motor that's too light, it won't have the oomph you need. a few extra pounds is A-o.k. but a significant amount of extra pounds limits your range)
Get one with a male shaft
A keyed shaft is easier to work with but you can still work with a spline shaft
Try and get the coupler that goes on to your motor when you buy it/rip it out (saves you $$ and time)
When looking for a different motor:
Ac is not the way to go for your first conversion (or do i just have low expectations of myself?)
You can tell if a motor is AC if it is a 1 phase or 3 phase motor
Pancake motors are usually not good candidates for car conversions. (Yeah you saw the one on ebay. They overheat easily)
Golfcart motors are seldom powerful enough for a conversion
Motors specifically made for EV conversions are the best but its gonna cost you.
You do have to look at many factor such as volts, amps (which gets you Hp). Torque is nice to know. Continuous Hp. So many factors!!!
If there is any more helpful hints I'll be happy to add them

Anywhere where the "metric-sytem" is used; there is no use of the word Horse Power, it is a forbidden-word in the Euro-Union, to the extent, if a student doing an exam uses the word ,horse-power he automatically voids his answer!!!!!!!!!!!! Some examiners were willing to fail your whole "paper" in Europe during the "changeover" to metric.

sukusia

Discussion Starter · #10 · Apr 13, 2011

electro37 said:
Anywhere where the "metric-sytem" is used; there is no use of the word Horse Power, it is a forbidden-word in the Euro-Union, to the extent, if a student doing an exam uses the word ,horse-power he automatically voids his answer!!!!!!!!!!!! Some examiners were willing to fail your whole "paper" in Europe during the "changeover" to metric.

Good thing I'm not in Europe then.

Duncan

· #11 · Apr 14, 2011

Anywhere where the "metric-sytem" is used; there is no use of the word Horse Power, it is a forbidden-word in the Euro-Union,

COBBLERS!

The demon word - Horsepower - is frequently used - the only problem is that there are lots of different -horsepowers-, SAE, DIN, PS

I have taken numerous European technical papers - and set a few - and I have never heard of anybody being penalized for using the word - horsepower

Mind you if you tried to answer a technical question in horsepower instead of Kw I would have marked it wrong - just as I would have if you answered a distance question in Roman miles

Have you ever tried to do any serious engineering work in the Imperial system?
It's bloody hard - Rotary Slugs for example

during the "changeover" to metric.

I remember the UK as the last country in Europe to "changeover" - but that was over forty years ago!!

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electro37

· #12 · Apr 14, 2011

Duncan said:
Anywhere where the "metric-sytem" is used; there is no use of the word Horse Power, it is a forbidden-word in the Euro-Union,

COBBLERS!

The demon word - Horsepower - is frequently used - the only problem is that there are lots of different -horsepowers-, SAE, DIN, PS

I have taken numerous European technical papers - and set a few - and I have never heard of anybody being penalized for using the word - horsepower

Mind you if you tried to answer a technical question in horsepower instead of Kw I would have marked it wrong - just as I would have if you answered a distance question in Roman miles

Have you ever tried to do any serious engineering work in the Imperial system?
It's bloody hard - Rotary Slugs for example

during the "changeover" to metric.

I remember the UK as the last country in Europe to "changeover" - but that was over forty years ago!!

I was threatened in England just after the "changeover" to metric, just before starting a Marine Engineering exam, and again in Canada when starting a "Stationary Engineer's" exam also. But; I guess nobody in both countries "cares a damn" which you use theses days!! In England most "speed signs are in both! Here in Canada there was talk about doing the same, posting in both MPH and KPH.... In a lot of calculations it is easier to use metric, but that is the only advantage I can see.

Duncan

· #13 · Apr 15, 2011

Hi Electro

In a lot of calculations it is easier to use metric, but that is the only advantage I can see.

Just try to calculate driveshaft resonant frequencies in Imperial! - nevermind anything difficult

The real advantage is that SI is a designed set of measurements so that everything keys together

This is a major advantage when you are trying to understand what is going wrong

Imperial is a set of almost random units related to the size of somebodies foot and the width of a horses arse thousands of years ago

Reactions: 1

josmeijer

· #14 · Apr 26, 2011

The horesepower we use for electric motors here in Europe is rather straightforeward.

it´s 1,36 horespower roughly in a kw.
all other horsepowers (EPK, IPK etc) are long forgotten, though they might be used by vague merchants to whip up the power (just like speaker-watts)

But type-plates are reliable enough to stick to the */1,36 to use in your calculations.

execelon7

· #15 · May 1, 2011

sukusia said:
So here is what I learned about motors from this site. I wanted to post a quick reference so newbs (like myself) do not have to sort through the sticky page.

I have always wanted to build a EV but I dont have the knowledge of the motors or the electrics involved. After reading many posts here I think I may be able to do it with help from all of you. I have mechanical skills I did a engine conversion on a Rx7 to chevy 4.3l v-6 4bbl , 700r4 trans. So here is where I am now. I posted this earlier ,I'll paste it here with the link to the pics. Any advice, info comments WELCOME.
04/29/2000 DAY ONE

Went to local junk yard this morning and removed the motor and all controls from a Nissan forklift model CWP02L25S , with a GE dc 9.9 kw 43.5 volts 1000 rpm motor GE part number 29010-8G200. $ 75.00 . Seven hours of work time from removal start till home in garage. Turned the motor shaft by hand it spun free no binding or noise. Will test it with 12v in the morning, after I find out here if it will not damage it only using 12v to test it. I am really psyched , still looking for the donor veh, not sure which one to get , either a S10 or a Ranger. I have read here that the S10 is better because of the way the motor mounts are located and it is a eaiser fabrication because they are not off set like the Ranger. Also the S10 has a better made 5 spd manual transmission than the Ranger.
Pics http://s1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff466/UNED2GETBENT/

josmeijer

· #16 · May 1, 2011

no worries, you won´t wreck any motor if you test it on a lower voltage as it is designed for, if it is able to run freely.

execelon7

· #17 · May 4, 2011

josmeijer said:
no worries, you won´t wreck any motor if you test it on a lower voltage as it is designed for, if it is able to run freely.

Does this diagram look right to you

http://s1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff466/UNED2GETBENT/?action=view&current=MTRDRW11.jpg

DawidvC

· #18 · May 4, 2011

If I may assume that speaking about the front, you are meaning the Drive End (i.e. the part where the shaft exits that is going to be connected to the gearbox, and NOT the part that house the brushes) AND we can assume that the motor is wired standard, then your drawing would be correct.

Regards
Dawid

execelon7

· #19 · May 4, 2011

DawidvC said:
If I may assume that speaking about the front, you are meaning the Drive End (i.e. the part where the shaft exits that is going to be connected to the gearbox, and NOT the part that house the brushes) AND we can assume that the motor is wired standard, then your drawing would be correct.

Regards
Dawid

Thank you so much for your reply,
Roger

Tyner1988

· #20 · May 10, 2011

Re: Finding a motor on a budget 2 motors available

I have 2 electric motors made by Polaron & marketed under the name of Nelco. It has a peak torque of 60kw. It was originally developed for medium sized buses & large vans. They have never been used to my knowledge but have been in sotrage for a while. 2 links below give some info close to the motors I have. If interested I can send pics and maybe work out a deal. You can call email me at [email protected].

http://www.coopercontrols.co.uk/components/motors.htm

http://www.coopercontrols.co.uk/components/n200ml.htm

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