[KLX650E]

Hey Guys, I've been reading about EV's for a long time now, and decided to convert my Kawasaki KLX 650C to Electric. I'm think i will use these Parts:

- Enertrac 603
- Kelly KBL12271I
- Turnigy 2200 mAh LiPo Batteries 33S15P
- ElCon PFC2000 Charger
- Magura Twist Grip

what i havent yet found is a DC/DC Converter. Any tips?

now i have a Few Questions wich ihope you can answer me:

- Is The Charger suitable for my Battery pack?
- The Controller has these two round Connectors, and i don't know what they're for. do i need them? can someone help me?

I'm very sorry for my english, but I'm from switzerland.

Thank you very much!

KLX650E

 

[EscapeVelocity]

Electric motorcycles are fun, you're going to enjoy your conversion. Plus, a hub motor is easy to implement, as long as you have a good torque arm.

I'm riding a maxi scooter with a 13" Kelly 6KW hub motor. It has faster-than-car acceleration and a >60MPH top speed. I imagine that the Enertrac motor will have incredible torque (Enertrac's 7Kv vs Kelly's 17.7Kv).

Will this be a racing bike, or touring bike? At 96V, the 603 will go about 48MPH, while the 602 has a top speed of 68MPH (estimated). From my personal experience I would go with the higher speed motor, which is 10Kv. Even with the high-speed motor you'll leave everything in your dust off the line.

Also, I understand that people like the quality of the Magura Twist grips, but they are potentiometer based. I've used the $18 Kelly hall throttles (one for throttle on the right, one for regen on the left) for over 3000 miles and they work great. Hall effect throttles fail in the off position, whereas pot throttles can fail anywhere from off to full throttle. Plus, you can buy about four of the Kellys for the price of one of the Maguras.

I would strongly recommend against any brand of LiPo batteries. If you don't treat them exactly right, your bike will catch on fire. Our university's solar car recently exploded because they were using LiPo, and the driver was very lucky to make it out within 3 seconds with only 2nd degree burns. Imagine if your bike catches fire in your garage while it's charging. Keep the LiPo relegated to the RC industry where no one will get hurt.

I have 40Ah Thundersky cells (5C pulse) in my scooter, but for your higher powered motorcycle you might consider Headway cylindrical cells (10C).

With 96 of the 16Ah cells (4.9KWh, 32S3P):

• 48Ah @ 102.4V
• 240 Amps continuous, 24.5KW continuous
• Double those values for peak (although the motor is 30KW max)
• 65 miles of range at 80% DoD, @ 60 Whr/Mile

With 128 of the 10Ah cells (4.0KWh matches your original pack, 32S4P):

• 40Ah @ 102.4V
• 200 Amps continuous, 20.5KW continuous
• Double those values for peak (although the motor is 30KW max)
• 55 miles of range at 80% DoD, @ 60 Whr/Mile

Additionally, you might consider the 1500 watt Elcon charger over the 2000-watt version. Why? Because most standard North American circuit breakers are 15 amps @ 110V (1650 Watts). It would mean more freedom to plug into about any outlet to recharge without risking tripping a breaker. With the 16Ah pack I recommended above, charging from 20% to full would take a bit over 2.5 hours, the 10Ah pack would take just over 2 hours.

edit:
Just saw your in Switzerland, so the charger limitations may not apply, but your house burning down still does.

 

[EscapeVelocity]

what i havent yet found is a DC/DC Converter. Any tips?

Kelly has a 96V converter, for >$100, but I don't have experience with it. 96V is within the operating range of most computer power supplies. A nice microATX power supply might only cost you $45 for 300 watts. Just keep in mind that they're not meant to be subjected to road vibrations.

If you go the computer PSU route, look for one that has a single 12V rail with the highest amperage. This one has the broadest input voltage range (an AC power supply will run off of DC, but the DC voltage will need to be a little higher): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817338045

- The Controller has these two round Connectors, and i don't know what they're for. do i need them? can someone help me?

Kelly will provide you with one of the connectors. This is all you will need. It has the breakout cables for your throttle, regen, and brake signal, as well as the hall and temperature sensors from the motor. The second connector is capable of CAN BUS communication, but it's unnecessary on a motorcycle.

 

[EscapeVelocity]

One last comment...

The KBL12401B 400A controller will give you even more acceleration off the line. It's about $200 more.

When I put my scooter together I started with a 200A controller because in my mind, it "matched the specs on my motor". However I ended up upgrading to a 350A controller. I'm very satisfied now, and no problems.

More amps = more torque, but more heat in the motor. The controller will cut back on it's power to the motor if the temperature gets too high. Plus, a larger controller can pretend to be a smaller controller, but a smaller controller cannot pretend to be a bigger controller. I still have a $400, 200A controller on my shelf...

 

[KLX650E]

Thank you very much for your help. so i Think i will go with this Set:

- Enertrac 602
- KBL12401B,24-120V,400A,BLDC Controller/With Regen
- Compact Assembly (KEB/KBL/PM) with Kelly Trottle
- Headway 40160 32S3P
- ElCon PFC20 or one of the two below
- HWZ Series DC/DC Converter 96V to 12V 300W
- Cycle Analyst 2.23

what about these chargers: hwc4 96V 15A or this one f9607 96V 7A Charger

I know it will take longer for a Charge, but 1 or 2 hours doesn't matter, it is fast enough for me. Is the Quality good enough and am i able to go with the cheapest?

Have i Forgot something, or are these all Parts I need? do I need a 12V battery for the Lights etc? or can i power them straight from the DC/DC converter?

and where have you found the Headway 40160 for 20.8$? the cheapest i found was 23.99$...

Thanks again for your help. I hope I can order soon and I will post my progress of the build here.

Bye KLX650E

Edit : is it possible to programm the Controller, so that i could do an Eco mode, where the current would be limited to 200 amps, then switch to power mode and its limited to 400 Amps?

 

[EscapeVelocity]

do I need a 12V battery for the Lights etc? or can i power them straight from the DC/DC converter?

You do not need an accessory battery for your lights, everything can run directly from the DC/DC converter. The 13.5V version is required if you keep the lead acid battery as a buffer, say if you have a powerful sound system in a car. Your lights are designed to run off ~13.5V and will be a little dimmer with 12V, but it shouldn't be noticeable.

Cycle Analyst 2.23

The Cycle Analyst is a great display, I have one in my dashboard. You will need a shunt to be able to measure the current coming from your batteries. Because you are using a hub motor (no gears, RPM is some multiple of speed) you can have the CA measure your speed by tapping into one of the hall sensor wires coming from the motor. Nice and clean not having to epoxy a magnet to your wheel.

what about these chargers: hwc4 96V 15A or this one f9607 96V 7A Charger

Any LiFePO4 CCCV charger will work, as long as it's meant for a 96V pack. Headway recommends a charging rate of 1C (1 hour) or slower. Most LiFePO4 chemistry's recommend a .5C charge (2 hours). The slower the charge, the more cycles you'll get from your batteries. I've been impressed with Kelly's quality, but I'm pretty sure they don't manufacture the chargers they sell. Still, I've had great customer service from them.

At 2000 charge cycles, your pack will last for 130,000 miles (210,000 KM), at which point you'll have 80% of your pack's capacity left.

and where have you found the Headway 40160 for 20.8$? the cheapest i found was 23.99$...

You might try and contact Headway directly for the best price. Order an even 100 (4 spares), and they might be able to offer your a small discount. Shipping will probably be on a slow boat from China, so it might take a month or two to reach you. http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/476518925/headway_40160_3v_16ah_lithium_battery.html

is it possible to programm the Controller, so that i could do an Eco mode, where the current would be limited to 200 amps, then switch to power mode and its limited to 400 Amps?

You can customize the controller, but that's not what you're looking for. You can customize nearly every aspect of the controller with a USB to RS232 cable - maximum battery and motor draw, voltage and temperature cutoffs, regen amounts... But you won't be able to switch between 400 amps and 200 amps without connecting a computer and rebooting the controller.

The way to do this would be to add a SPDT switch between your throttle and controller. With the "Performance" switch On, it would be a straight pass-through to the controller. With "Performance" switch off, there would be a resistor voltage divider inline to decrease to voltage sent back to the controller. Basically, with a 1/2 voltage divider, your throttle would send back 0.5 - 2.0V instead of the normal 1.0 - 4.0V. Anything below 1.0V is seen as "off" by the controller, and over 4.0V is seen as full throttle (since that is the operating range of a 5V Hall throttle).

With the controller set to Torque mode (recommended), you would essentially send 400A with the switch on, and 200A with the switch off (at max throttle). Because Amps are directly proportional to your throttle position, the easiest way would be to just be easier on the throttle

Have i Forgot something, or are these all Parts I need?

• You will need probably ~5 feet of 0AWG welding cable and matching lug terminals for the main power cables from the batteries to controller. You should use a good crimping tool to attach the connectors to the cable. I got the cable from Amazon and the crimper from Harbor Freight.
• I used shielded Cat5 cable for the Cycle Analyst inputs, and the throttles.
• You will need a second throttle to control your regen. I found the easiest way was to put a second twist throttle on the left grip. This one will rotate away from you, as opposed to the throttle which rotates towards you. You can set your regen to a fixed amount upon applying the brakes, but with variable I hardly use my friction brakes.
• I used Sealed MetriPack 150 connectors for my low current connections (throttles, brake signal). I also bought a dedicated Metripack crimper tool for $40 which made my job a lot easier. For each connection you'll need a male & female mating connector, male and female pins for each wire, terminal seals for each wire, and male and female locking end caps. I paid between $5 and $8 for each connection.
• You will have to construct some sort of battery box that will protect the batteries from water. Some people weld a metal battery box into the frame of their motorcycle and line it with non-conductive plastic or rubber.
• You will also need to plan the layout of the batteries and fabricate your battery interconnects (preferrably out of copper). Designing the connectors in a CAD program and sending them off to a water jet cutting facility will save you time, but it depends on what you think your time is worth.
• You might also want to buy a couple single-cell chargers. If you're not using a BMS, your batteries will gradually become out-of-sync over time. I use these chargers once every 6 months. My charger takes my pack up to an average of 3.45V per cell, and then the single cell charger brings each one up to 3.6. You would have to manually balance each of your 32 (3P) cells this way. I use 4 of them at a time to speed up the process. https://p10.secure.hostingprod.com/...og/product_info.php?cPath=1_23&products_id=28

 

[EscapeVelocity]

Just looked at pictures of the Kawasaki KLX 650C. You will need to make sure there will be room for that many batteries within your frame. You might have to go 32S2P (about 45 miles of range). You would still get full torque and top speed.

If all of the gas components are out of your frame, you should assemble some "battery packs" out of cardboard to determine what you can fit. You might want to make cardboard models of the controller, DC/DC converter and charger (if it will be on-board) too.

Planning in advance will save you a lot of time and money later.

 

[KLX650E]

I have looked at the mini bms for balancing, but i just don't know what i would need, and how many of them...

For the fitting, i have looked at it in de CAD and I think there would fit in more batteries, but I will test it with cardboard models.

The klx is here as a rolling chassis, all ice components taken out.

I think at the beginning i will go with 30s 2p because of the cost, and probably add more batteries later. All the cables and connector etc. i will get from local stores here, because of the shipping cost.

Thank you very much!

 

[frodus]

don't forget a contactor

Try to do more in parallel to keep the current down on those cells. You don't want to push them at 10C continuous or you'll get less life.

 

[EscapeVelocity]

I have looked at the mini bms for balancing, but i just don't know what i would need, and how many of them...

You will need one mini BMS for each series cell (30), and one (1) head end board. 30S will work, but you will lose a little bit of top-end speed compared to 32S. Voltage = maximum RPM.

 

[EscapeVelocity]

don't forget a contactor

The Kelly "Assembly" includes a contactor and fuse, apart from being an additional heatsink for the controller. They also include a precharge resistor with their controller.

I personally don't use a contactor in my scooter, just a DC circuit breaker. A contactor would be the more standard way of doing it though, so I encourage you to use the contactor...

Try to do more in parallel to keep the current down on those cells. You don't want to push them at 10C continuous or you'll get less life.

Kelly controls are Amp limited independently on both battery and motor side. So if he programmed it to limit battery amps to 256A (8C), the motor would still get the full 400A up until about 61V, or 41MPH. Correct me if my math is wrong.

(256A/400A)*65MPH = 41.6 MPH

He could also put a temperature probe in the battery pack and have the Cycle Analyst ease off on the throttle if it exceeds a limit. It's more complex to wire it that way though.

My scooter is limited to 180A battery side (40Ah Thundersky 5C-max cells), 350A motor side and it has great performance. Pretty much impossible to tell if any damage has resulted from my 4.5C accelerations (Usually under 4 seconds before I start going too fast). No swelling. Haven't measured internal resistance. I generally pull 2,500 watts while cruising at 35MPH, so that's a maximum of only 32 Amps (0.81C) most of the time. Whenever I'm going 55MPH on level ground I pull about 4,000 to 4,500 watts.

I guess an important question is: How fast will you be going on average, and are there many hills?

By the way, expect to have this project take you 6 months. Figuring things out the first time takes awhile. Make sure to invest in the proper tools so you don't have to go back and redo flaky connections (like I did).

 

[frodus]

(256A/400A)*65MPH = 41.6 MPH

amps does not equate to mph..... lots more to the equation, like HP needed, voltage, rolling resistance, weight, battery sag.... and controller frequency, since this is brushless.

He could also put a temperature probe in the battery pack and have the Cycle Analyst ease off on the throttle if it exceeds a limit. It's more complex to wire it that way though.

you can do the same thing with the minibms

 

[EscapeVelocity]

No, I know Amps != MPH, but I figure that the battery can put out a maximum of 24,500 Watts at 8C (96V * 256A). 24,500 Watts / 400Amps (to the motor) = 61.25 Volts. Voltage does relate to RPM.

If the maximum voltage to the motor is 96V, then 61.25V is 64% duty cycle. 64% of 65MPH is 41.6MPH. So after 41.6MPH, the maximum amps available to the motor will start to decrease.

 

[EscapeVelocity]

you can do the same thing with the minibms

Can MiniBMS alter the 5V throttle signal, or does it just cut power?

 

[frodus]

Can MiniBMS alter the 5V throttle signal, or does it just cut power?

It cuts power down to a level you set with a resistor. Once it hit's LVC, it'l close a relay, you can do whatever you want with that.
http://minibms.mybigcommerce.com/template/files/MiniBMS User Manual - Distributed.pdf

 

[frodus]

No, I know Amps != MPH, but I figure that the battery can put out a maximum of 24,500 Watts at 8C (96V * 256A). 24,500 Watts / 400Amps (to the motor) = 61.25 Volts. Voltage does relate to RPM.

If the maximum voltage to the motor is 96V, then 61.25V is 64% duty cycle. 64% of 65MPH is 41.6MPH. So after 41.6MPH, the maximum amps available to the motor will start to decrease.

but at 8C you won't be at 96V now will you..... not with 30 cells running in series at 8C

 

[EscapeVelocity]

Ok, so the hub motor is 10Kv. 30 cells at 3.0V under moderate load is 900RPM max.

If the tire is 23 inches diameter, then each revolution is 72.25 inches. At 900RPM your maximum speed will be about 61.5 MPH with the 30 cells.

Let's say under heavy load the batteries sag 10% from their nominal voltage of 3.2V, so 2.88V per cell. Then:

2.88V = 864RPM
256/400 = 64% of maximum speed

You will get 400 amps to the motor out to 553 RPM, or 37.79 MPH. So I may be way off, but I'm pretty sure this will be the case with a 30S2P pack at 8C Max. Fortunately, acceleration is most important from a stop. And remember, the MHM602 is rated for pulses of ~315 amps, so you may not want to use the entire power that this controller can output. This will be an impressive motorcycle, and I would be very happy with this build.

Once you fabricate the battery interconnects you won't easily be able to add another parallel cell, but you would be able to add an extra couple cells in series to increase power and range.

 

[frodus]

That's a better calculation. It'l be 10-15% sag. I've tested hundreds of these headway cells, they're pretty stout, but over 5C and the sag becomes noticeable.

And you've also brought up a good point..... it doesn't take much to sustain speed, just to get there, so your current will be lower to maintain that speed. I don't think you need 8C to maintain 65mph, just 8C under heavy acceleration.

 

[KLX650E]

I guess an important question is: How fast will you be going on average, and are there many hills?

Well, i think on average I will go about 50kph/31mph. And yes, here are many hills and mountains. Thanks for the help on the minibms.

 

[EscapeVelocity]

Well, i think on average I will go about 50kph/31mph. And yes, here are many hills and mountains. Thanks for the help on the minibms.

You will have no problems at those speeds, even on hills. How are the battery mock-ups going?